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Scotty

Story: Friday April 8, 2016

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5 hours ago, Scotty said:

It's because neither Tedd, nor Edward have really tried to communicate with each other over this, early on since Tedd didn't know what he was, he didn't know what to tell Edward. Now though Tedd knows he genderfluid and yet he's still won't go to Edward and be all "Hey dad, this is what I am, do you have a problem with it?"

In story time, Tedd has had maybe three or four days total to learn what he is, absorb it and cope with the shock. Are you really saying that this is enough time to prepare himself to go to the father he no longer trusts in this area and who has hurt him again and again?

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Given the circumstances, if Edward were to find out about Tedd's Mark, it might help him to understand the gravity of the situation. It is well-known to Edward that such Marks reflect the Marked person in some way--either an innate talent or a strong desire that the person holds. Knowing that Tedd was marked with a gender-altering spell that resets Tedd's unenchanted base form rather than itself being an enchantment would do a lot to convince Edward that yes, the issue does reach down to the core of Tedd's self-image.

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3 hours ago, ijuin said:

Given the circumstances, if Edward were to find out about Tedd's Mark, it might help him to understand the gravity of the situation. It is well-known to Edward that such Marks reflect the Marked person in some way--either an innate talent or a strong desire that the person holds. Knowing that Tedd was marked with a gender-altering spell that resets Tedd's unenchanted base form rather than itself being an enchantment would do a lot to convince Edward that yes, the issue does reach down to the core of Tedd's self-image.

That is possible. Would Tedd at this stage trust him to do so? I doubt it. He would fear, and justifiably so, that Mr. Verres would instead consider it 'another symptom of something being wrong with that boy.'

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5 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

In story time, Tedd has had maybe three or four days total to learn what he is, absorb it and cope with the shock. Are you really saying that this is enough time to prepare himself to go to the father he no longer trusts in this area and who has hurt him again and again?

Actually, in story time, Tedd only learned that he is genderfluid yesterday. So yeah, you make a good point, Tedd is definitely not ready to talk to his father about it yet, but when they do talk about it, I believe Edward will be much more understanding than you give him credit for. He's just worried about his son and doesn't know how to express it. Let's hope that Pandora or anyone else will not sabotage their relationship any more before Tedd is ready to talk.

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23 minutes ago, SeriousJupiter said:

Actually, in story time, Tedd only learned that he is genderfluid yesterday. So yeah, you make a good point, Tedd is definitely not ready to talk to his father about it yet, but when they do talk about it, I believe Edward will be much more understanding than you give him credit for. He's just worried about his son and doesn't know how to express it. Let's hope that Pandora or anyone else will not sabotage their relationship any more before Tedd is ready to talk.

You misunderstand me. I am not saying that Edward will necessarily fail to understand if confronted directly. I am saying that at this point Tedd has a great deal of justifications for his doubts that his father will understand. Tedd has been harmed, and once burned twice shy.

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4 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

In story time, Tedd has had maybe three or four days total to learn what he is, absorb it and cope with the shock. Are you really saying that this is enough time to prepare himself to go to the father he no longer trusts in this area and who has hurt him again and again?

Maybe, maybe not, I don't know. All I know is Tedd's continuing to transform himself after the realization, which is guaranteed to have Edward continue to make off-handed comments about it. The only way that has any chance of stopping is if Tedd tells him to. I still don't believe that Edward's aware of the bullying that Tedd's gone through growing up. Tedd likely never mentioned any of it out of fear of being called a tattletale and getting even worse treatment, so Edward wouldn't be able to make the connection that Tedd's "vacations" were because of the bullying. I'm not saying the bullying is the cause of Tedd's genderfluidity, but it probably was instrumental in it surfacing when it did and Tedd would possibly have not realized that aspect of himself until later if he wasn't bullied about his appearance.

Another thing that bothers me about the situation is way back at Grace's birthday Tedd does seem to make a promise to tell Grace whats going on in that head of his in the future. Fast Forward to after the tournament and we see all the things he could have told Grace to answer her question about why he shouldn't tell his dad about his mark, but all Tedd says is "I just don't." So that means that Grace isn't aware of Edward's behaviour, She certainly heard Edward's comment about being disturbed seeing his son as a girl, but if she never saw any of the other incidents then she probably wouldn't think there was an issue. Tedd's refusal to tell his dad about the mark should have been a red flag that there is an issue but it didn't seem like Grace saw it.

I'd like to think I know what Tedd's going through because I went through similar growing up, not the genderfluidity stuff, but being bullied and feeling like I was the one being punished for trying to do something about it, numerous times in school I'd tell a teacher that one of the other students was bothering me and I would end up getting moved to the back of the classroom, if they were doing things visually that bothered me, my desk would be turned around so I couldn't see them. I was constantly told by some people that if a bully took a swing at me to just swing back, and told by others to just ignore it any they'll go away. And most of the time the bullies would do things while the teacher's back was to us and so when I did react there was at least 5 people that said they did nothing to me. It wasn't until high school that I found a couple teachers and even a vice principal that were sympathetic to me and encouraged me to stick up for myself. There was one incident in particular where a bully kept kicking at my book bag as we walked down the hall from the classroom to the library I kept telling him to stop but he wouldn't so I pushed him away from me, he pushed back and I clocked him one across the nose. I ended up getting suspended for a day for fighting on school grounds but bully got 3 days for provoking me, the bully never bothered me again and the vice principal even congratulated me for standing up to him.

Looking back on all of that, even though I did eventually make progress, there are still many incidents where I wished I had done things differently, like not caving so easily when told not to tattle, or be more assertive when people tried to outnumber me, the results of what I did do were less than ideal for the most part but maybe I didn't do enough. Maybe that's why I feel so strongly about Tedd keeping this stuff from him dad, even if the outcome of it is less than ideal for Tedd, it should still be attempted. I can't claim to know why Dan's writing the scenario out like this, I get the feeling he's drawing from experience either from his own life or observations of others, so what Dan knows could be very different from what I know, but looking at Tedd as a real person, knowing what I know, his method of handling this situation just feels wrong and could very well end badly for everyone involved. Now that I think of it, I did use "fault" in the wrong context and I apologize for that. But I can't help but feel Tedd would likely blame himself for his father's behaviour if things keep going like it is.

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Are you saying that bullies calling Tedd a girl made him want to become one and later made him realize he's genderfluid? I'm sorry, but that seems pretty far-fetched to me. Then again, I suppose one of the reasons why Tedd doesn't want to talk to Edward about his genderfluidity could be that he has already told him about the bullies before. Maybe he's afraid that Edward will somehow blame him for giving in to the bullies or something other highly illogical nonsense like that.

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No I'm not saying that, I'm saying that if Tedd wasn't bullied about his appearance, he probably wouldn't have felt he needed a reason to escape by transforming himself, so it could have been years before he started to show signs of being genderfluid, despite the fact that he got the TFG at the age he did, he may have been more responsible in it's use if he wasn't motivated to use it on himself. He'd likely use it occasionally for fun, but it would be a more gradual buildup to the realization of being genderfluid. Like Elliot for example, he was originally annoyed by the idea of being transformed and for a while felt it was an inconvenience to have to routinely transform to keep his energy buildup in check, but as of his date with Ashley we know that it's grown on him to the point where we've even wondered if he's genderfluid as well. If Elliot is genderfluid then it took longer for that aspect to surface in him than it did Tedd.

Heck, if Tedd wasn't genderfluid, and yet still bullied about his appearance, it would have been more likely that Tedd would have used the TFG to make himself look more masculine. So the bullies are the cause of Tedd's genderfluidity surfacing when it did, but it is by no means the cause of Tedd being genderfluid.

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3 hours ago, Scotty said:

No I'm not saying that, I'm saying that if Tedd wasn't bullied about his appearance, he probably wouldn't have felt he needed a reason to escape by transforming himself, so it could have been years before he started to show signs of being genderfluid, despite the fact that he got the TFG at the age he did, he may have been more responsible in it's use if he wasn't motivated to use it on himself.

So, to translate directly: being bullied makes you irresponsible. I see.

 

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5 hours ago, SeriousJupiter said:

Actually, in story time, Tedd only learned that he is genderfluid yesterday. So yeah, you make a good point, Tedd is definitely not ready to talk to his father about it yet, but when they do talk about it, I believe Edward will be much more understanding than you give him credit for. He's just worried about his son and doesn't know how to express it. Let's hope that Pandora or anyone else will not sabotage their relationship any more before Tedd is ready to talk.

Tedd only learned the word "genderfluid" yesterday.

He's known what he was for years.  He thought it was something unique to him.  Grace just told him there was a name for it.

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34 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

So, to translate directly: being bullied makes you irresponsible. I see.

 

In a way, yes, because I've done some irresponsible things to try to deal with bullying. The bullying has an emotional effect that makes someone do things they wouldn't normally do. I'm not saying Tedd would never have tried transforming into a girl if he was never bullied, but it'd probably more of a case of transforming once a month after fully testing the TFG on that machine first, maybe even as much as once a week and it would have been for fun at first then gradually coming to the realization that he feels like being one form over the other. Instead, because of the bullying, Tedd was likely transforming every day as a way to escape it which triggered his feelings about it sooner.

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28 minutes ago, Scotty said:

In a way, yes, because I've done some irresponsible things to try to deal with bullying. The bullying has an emotional effect that makes someone do things they wouldn't normally do. I'm not saying Tedd would never have tried transforming into a girl if he was never bullied, but it'd probably more of a case of transforming once a month after fully testing the TFG on that machine first, maybe even as much as once a week and it would have been for fun at first then gradually coming to the realization that he feels like being one form over the other. Instead, because of the bullying, Tedd was likely transforming every day as a way to escape it which triggered his feelings about it sooner.

I am sorry. I am having a hard time seeing your arguments as anything other than victim blaming. You seem so eager to share responsibility around that you are effectively arguing that Tedd is to blame for being genderfluid and for being the recipient of transphobic abuse because he does not respond to it in a fashion that would help to defuse it. And as your own story shows -- a story I recognise, believe you me -- someone caught in that situation quite simply may lack the knowledge and support to respond in a more helpful manner.

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I did admit that my use of "fault" was wrong after I thought about it more. But when it comes down to it, the issue is still a lack of communication fueled by emotions over what ifs. Tedd's afraid of how his dad would react if he tells him about the mark and being genderfluid, does that make keeping it a secret justified? No. He's hiding from the truth by letting his fear guide his decisions. Edward may not be aware of what his son is going through, does that make his comments forgivable? No, does that make Edward a villain? or just as much a victim as Tedd because he doesn't know the truth? His comments are hurtful, but are they malicious? I don't believe Edward is intentionally trying to hurt Tedd but again no one is telling him that it's hurting Tedd so he just believes he's showing concern for his son's well being. You've said before Tedd's situation is tragic, I say it's tragic for both of them.

Am I wrong for being hopeful that Edward is not transphobic? For all that Edward's done, this seems to be the only smudge on his character. When Tedd first showed interest in working on the TFG, Edward was concerned that Tedd would use it on himself and his friends, when that turned out to be true, did Edward put a stop to it? No, in fact he continued to supply Tedd the materials he needed to build more TFGs. When he caught Grace and Tedd on the couch after he specifically said they were to sleep separate , did he break it up? No, he tucked them in. Edward could have done a lot of things to make sure the main eight didn't get into trouble, but instead he's shown to be trying to give them guidance giving them the information they need to hopefully be more careful but still able to help them deal with unavoidable situations (I still think his comment to Justin about keeping the circle at eight wasn't as serious as it seems but I guess we have yet to see if there's any weight to it). We know Edward's not homophobic as he hasn't made any disapproving comments about Ellen and Nanase being together nor the fact that Tedd is friends with Justin. All of that makes me optimistic that Edward would be supportive once he's made aware of Tedd's situation, yet despite all that, it's that one thing, the lack of communication between Tedd and Edward, that may drive them apart.

 

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20 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

When one is speaking of an injury, the intent behind inflicting it does not reduce the damage when it comes to the injury's effects and consequences. Tedd knows that his father is acting in a transphobic manner and as a consequence has lost trust in him.

I would actually say that he doesn't KNOW it, he more feels it. It might actually be worse because Tedd didn't understood it better.

20 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

And this is truly tragic, but arguing about guilt or lack thereof will not in any way change Tedd's position and problems in this.

Definitely. On the other hand, anything else WE do won't change Tedd's position either. We are sadly unable to help.

18 hours ago, Wildcat said:

You can't really expect a kid going through puberty with longstanding bullying and self esteem issues, and feelings he has no context to understand to react logically to the situation can you?

You can't really expect a kid going through puberty to react logically period, but it's true the other parts make it even worse. Puberty is age where lot of kids lose trust in their parents without any reason at all. Obviously it's worse when there are actual reasons for it.

10 hours ago, The Old Hack said:
14 hours ago, ijuin said:

Knowing that Tedd was marked with a gender-altering spell that resets Tedd's unenchanted base form rather than itself being an enchantment would do a lot to convince Edward that yes, the issue does reach down to the core of Tedd's self-image.

That is possible. Would Tedd at this stage trust him to do so? I doubt it. He would fear, and justifiably so, that Mr. Verres would instead consider it 'another symptom of something being wrong with that boy.'

Also, there is the additional problem that it would be Tedd telling him how it works. It would be more effective if Mr. Verres would find/analyse this spell independently, but I don't think he would (more specifically, I don't see any scenario where that would happen.)

2 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

I am sorry. I am having a hard time seeing your arguments as anything other than victim blaming. You seem so eager to share responsibility around that you are effectively arguing that Tedd is to blame for being genderfluid and for being the recipient of transphobic abuse because he does not respond to it in a fashion that would help to defuse it. And as your own story shows -- a story I recognise, believe you me -- someone caught in that situation quite simply may lack the knowledge and support to respond in a more helpful manner.

Unfortunately, no matter how hard you tries to not blame the victim, there are situations where any other solution than victim doing something differently is almost impossible to happen. For example, if bullying happen and only the bully and the victim knows about it, how can anyone reacts without the victim telling something? It's not his FAULT when he doesn't tell, but until he does (or until the bully does the mistake to attack again when someone else is looking) nothing will happen.

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Tedd's in a position where he can stop being the victim, he's already done it by defending Susan and in turn getting the bullies at school to leave him alone, he also stood up to Gerald when he was harassing Ellen and Nanase. His own dad is the equivalent to the final boss in Tedd's mind so it will be difficult for Tedd to get the courage to face Edward. I just fear what would happen if he takes too long.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

You've said before Tedd's situation is tragic, I say it's tragic for both of them.

Am I wrong for being hopeful that Edward is not transphobic?

Of COURSE it is bollocking tragic for both of them and I have specifically STATED so! I have even said that the harm Edward inflicts is unintentional. But it is harm even so!

And yes you are, for he is being transphobic. Aim your hopes at him learning better someday. They are better spent there.

 

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Unfortunately, no matter how hard you tries to not blame the victim, there are situations where any other solution than victim doing something differently is almost impossible to happen. For example, if bullying happen and only the bully and the victim knows about it, how can anyone reacts without the victim telling something? It's not his FAULT when he doesn't tell, but until he does (or until the bully does the mistake to attack again when someone else is looking) nothing will happen.

Possibly. But there is a significant difference between a situation where the victim is cut off from all assistance and IT BEING THE VICTIM'S FAULT. The two have nothing to do with one another.

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4 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

I am sorry. I am having a hard time seeing your arguments as anything other than victim blaming. You seem so eager to share responsibility around that you are effectively arguing that Tedd is to blame for being genderfluid and for being the recipient of transphobic abuse because he does not respond to it in a fashion that would help to defuse it. And as your own story shows -- a story I recognise, believe you me -- someone caught in that situation quite simply may lack the knowledge and support to respond in a more helpful manner.

Tedd is not to blame for being genderfluid.  He is not to blame for choosing to freely use the TF gun to shift forms including gender.  

It is possible that Tedd took emotional refuge from bullying playing with the TF Gun.  

It's also possible that this need for this sort of safe zone (driven by bullying) could have accelerated Tedd's willingness to experiment with gender-bending and discover that something "clicks" sometimes when he's female (by comparison to a hypothetical Tedd that was not bullied).

I'm not sure where there's anything negative to say about Tedd in any of this.

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7 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Tedd is not to blame for being genderfluid.  He is not to blame for choosing to freely use the TF gun to shift forms including gender.  

It is possible that Tedd took emotional refuge from bullying playing with the TF Gun.  

It's also possible that this need for this sort of safe zone (driven by bullying) could have accelerated Tedd's willingness to experiment with gender-bending and discover that something "clicks" sometimes when he's female (by comparison to a hypothetical Tedd that was not bullied).

Yes.

4 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

I'm not sure where there's anything negative to say about Tedd in any of this.

Well, the negative bit is that as a result, he might've been less careful with the TF gun than he should. In EGS, transformations are crazily safe, but I don't think they know it in-universe. In fact ... WE know that Tedd is genderfluid and always was, but if Edward is afraid that overuse of TF gun have sideefects, it is not completely illogical concern.

(Not speaking about the fact that Tedd DID caused AT LEAST two incidents resulting in lot of emotional harm, and while Magus can be blamed in Elliot's case, I don't think there are any other mitigating circumstances for the Sarah incident other than him being young. So he definitely could've been more careful.)

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If Ed Verres was seriously worried about TF Gun abuse, he wouldn't have let Will and Gill give him the thing in the first place.  

Tedd (Tedd 2.0) was a bit of a jerk. I believe that can be directly traced to him getting bullied.  Those of us who have been abused are often twisted in such a way that we risk becoming abusers.  (Sad fact of human intelligence)  Tedd's only defense with Sarah, which is rather thin, is that he thought the TF Gun wouldn't fire when he pointed it at her.  I don't think he was laughing when Sarah was catgirl-ized.

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