story Story: Friday April 8, 2016

[Scotty 1,061]

15 minutes ago, Maplestrip said:

Susan's mother may not have any reason to to tell her now - she wouldn't know about the vampire-issue, would she?

Unless she's knows as much about Susan as Mama Kitsune does about Nanase, I don't see her being aware of vampires. We've hardly seen Mrs Pompoms for there to have been any hint that she's aware of anything Susan's been involved in magic related.

 

[SeriousJupiter 49]

I was very confused at first when Elliot said that there was no way Edward would not know about Susan being adopted, but it makes perfect sense now. Of course he would know, he's Dumbledore. I just wish he won't refuse to share his information with the kids or tell them to not tell Susan anything. I know he loves secrets, but Susan deserves and NEEDS to know. Nanase knows it, Elliot knows it, Ellen will hopefully understand it too, so they wouldn't really need Edward's permission to tell Susan she's adopted, but Elliot makes a good point, it would be nice to be able to prove it. Edward clearly doesn't want Tedd to know about Noriko for some reason, but perhaps he will be more reasonable about this.

22 hours ago, Scotty said:

Considering how much Nanase and Ellen already know about Diane, and the fact that Diane has already been attacked, Edward should definitely agree that she'll need help. He might even think that Nanase would be the best choice considering her abilities and the fact that Diane would trust her, rather than assigning agents to watch over her.

That's quite optimistic of you. Nanase is badass, but do you think her uncle would be willing to let her protect Diane against an unknown number of vampires who might even be working together without additional protection? Also, Diane doesn't only need protection, she needs to be trained to protect herself as well. I don't think Edward would recommend Raven for the job, given their history, but Grace might ask Raven to train Diane anyway, or Edward might trust Greg enough to ask him for help.

20 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Even if her mom is her birth mom, it's still an awfully important secret to keep from Susan, that she has a sister, a twin, and for some reason they not only separated them, but never told either of them about the other!  They stole an incredibly important relationship from her, years and closeness which can never be reclaimed, and I have a very difficult time coming up with any sort of adequate justification for doing that to both of them.  Her mom would have been lying to her her whole life.  That sort of revelation irrevocably damages a relationship, and she'll never look at her mom the same way again.

Agreed. I think the kindest way Dan could write this is that Susan's mother hasn't told Susan that she's adopted yet, but she fully intends to do so one day and that she hasn't told Susan about Diane because she doesn't know about Diane herself and she doesn't know that her ex-husband is the twins' biological father either.

10 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Tedd talked himself, Sarah, and Grace into not sharing information with his father.

Pandora put a lot of effort into convincing Sarah not to talk to Tedd's father.

Ellen and Nanase talked themselves into circles justifying a decision to withhold information from anyone.

It would be the hopelessly honest Elliot making a talk with Agent Verres the first option.

Sadly, yes. What's the matter with those kids?

4 hours ago, Maplestrip said:

Susan's mother may not have any reason to to tell her now - she wouldn't know about the vampire-issue, would she?

If my theory is correct, definitely not.

[ijuin 572]

The "Vampires know about Diane and possibly Susan and are now actively hunting them" situation definitely puts this into "need to know" territory for our main group.

[Hunendora 8]

1 hour ago, SeriousJupiter said:

**snip**

Agreed. I think the kindest way Dan could write this is that Susan's mother hasn't told Susan that she's adopted yet, but she fully intends to do so one day and that she hasn't told Susan about Diane because she doesn't know about Diane herself and she doesn't know that her ex-husband is the twins' biological father either.

**snip**

Do we actually know that Ms. Pompom's ex-husband is the biological father? I don't remember this coming up. He was certainly a father-figure, before his betrayal was discovered.

If he wasn't, it does bring up a nice Lost Magical Bloodline found trope.

[Scotty 1,061]

Just for clarification because this has been mentioned a few times in the forums already. Tedd referred to his dad as Dumbledore, but Edward world rather be compared to Gandalf.

2 hours ago, SeriousJupiter said:

On 4/9/2016 at 10:48 PM, Scotty said:

Considering how much Nanase and Ellen already know about Diane, and the fact that Diane has already been attacked, Edward should definitely agree that she'll need help. He might even think that Nanase would be the best choice considering her abilities and the fact that Diane would trust her, rather than assigning agents to watch over her.

That's quite optimistic of you. Nanase is badass, but do you think her uncle would be willing to let her protect Diane against an unknown number of vampires who might even be working together without additional protection? Also, Diane doesn't only need protection, she needs to be trained to protect herself as well. I don't think Edward would recommend Raven for the job, given their history, but Grace might ask Raven to train Diane anyway, or Edward might trust Greg enough to ask him for help.

Edward could still make it known to the paranormal division that several aberrations have been encountered in Moperville and there may still be some in the area or may come to the area in the future, whether or not Arthur Arthur does anything about it remains to be seen but optimistically they'd be on the alert about it, there'd be no reason to mention that a civillian who's not been awakened had been targeted by one already. Susan was a special case in that she was targeted but then marked to give her access to her affinity, if she wasn't attacked, how long could she have gone without knowing she had that affinity, 5, 10, 15 years? She quite possibly might have never awakened on her own, same could be the case with Diane, I think we can agree that the chances of Diane gaining access to her affinity, either by mark or by training and awakening, is pretty high considering the company she keeps, but would Arthur Arthur think she's worth sending bodyguards on the off chance she might become a vampire slayer?

As far as Nanase goes, she'd be the top choice to have stay close to Diane, Nanase however would suggest Diane join Grace and Ellen with their training under Greg, she may also consider telling Adrian consider she knows what he is, and least get his advice on what to do.

55 minutes ago, Hunendora said:

Do we actually know that Ms. Pompom's ex-husband is the biological father? I don't remember this coming up. He was certainly a father-figure, before his betrayal was discovered.

If he wasn't, it does bring up a nice Lost Magical Bloodline found trope.

 

That's coming from the theory that the blonde that Susan caught her dad cheating with is her biological mother, and the only evidence we have to support that theory is this comic page with the title "The other woman with Susan's face".

[InfiniteRemnant 141]

2 hours ago, SeriousJupiter said:

Edward clearly doesn't want Tedd to know about Noriko for some reason

i think that's more along the lines of "It's a touchy subject, don't bring it up unless he does."

[Scotty 1,061]

I think it wouldn't be an issue if Tedd was just told that Noriko is a monster hunter, Tedd know's she's in Europe, the fact that there are enemies of Noriko that have and may yet again target any of her family for revenge would likely cause Tedd to bust out the "gauntlet" again and work harder to make sure he's able to protect his friends and family.

The issue would be revealing that the reason Noriko left was because she was disappointed in Tedd not having any magic potential and thus not worthy of being an apprentice. Which from what we've seen, only Edward, Mama Kistune and Adrian (and likely Pandora) would be capable of revealing. That I can see having a very negative effect on Tedd.

[Alwaysnewguy 26]

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

I think it wouldn't be an issue if Tedd was just told that Noriko is a monster hunter, Tedd know's she's in Europe, the fact that there are enemies of Noriko that have and may yet again target any of her family for revenge would likely cause Tedd to bust out the "gauntlet" again and work harder to make sure he's able to protect his friends and family.

The issue would be revealing that the reason Noriko left was because she was disappointed in Tedd not having any magic potential and thus not worthy of being an apprentice. Which from what we've seen, only Edward, Mama Kistune and Adrian (and likely Pandora) would be capable of revealing. That I can see having a very negative effect on Tedd.

Edward may be worried that Tedd will figure out why she left on his own if he finds out what she does for a living. Remember that he already knows that his 'parents', plural, where trying to figure out why he had zero magic potential, so he's already aware that his mother knew about it. If he then finds out that she is a "legendary monster hunter with a long family history of fighting monsters and evil wizards..." the connections aren't so hard to draw, especially for a genius like Tedd.

[hkmaly 490]

On 04/09/2016 at 4:24 AM, Wildcat said:

On 04/08/2016 at 1:59 AM, hkmaly said:

They didn't seem to make list of who was there. Of course, Cranium might be THAT good.

... or they already have the list because they started working on it when Nanase mentioned she was invited.

(Speculation mode ++: Mrs. Kitsune insisted they do it.)

pffthahaha paranoia mode?

In secret service, mild paranoia is important character trait for promotion. Secret service and computer security. I can neither confirm nor deny which of those fields I'm working in.

On 04/09/2016 at 6:23 AM, CritterKeeper said:

On 04/09/2016 at 4:48 AM, Scotty said:

If it turns out that Susan isn't adopted (and Edward got the idea for Ellen's cover story from Diane's situation) then it shouldn't be too much of an issue telling Susan.

Even if her mom is her birth mom, it's still an awfully important secret to keep from Susan, that she has a sister, a twin, and for some reason they not only separated them, but never told either of them about the other!  They stole an incredibly important relationship from her, years and closeness which can never be reclaimed, and I have a very difficult time coming up with any sort of adequate justification for doing that to both of them.  Her mom would have been lying to her her whole life.  That sort of revelation irrevocably damages a relationship, and she'll never look at her mom the same way again.

Susan is in need to know. If her mom wouldn't agree to tell her, the relationship DESERVE to be damaged.

There is no way Diane can get proper training AND be integrated into main "eight" without Susan noticing she's her twin. The longer they withheld that knowledge, the more they risk that the relationship she has with her mother wouldn't be only relationship damaged when she realizes it.

20 hours ago, Maplestrip said:

Susan's mother may not have any reason to to tell her now - she wouldn't know about the vampire-issue, would she?

... yup. This makes it hard. "You need to tell Susan she has twin but we cant' tell you why".

15 hours ago, SeriousJupiter said:

hat's quite optimistic of you. Nanase is badass, but do you think her uncle would be willing to let her protect Diane against an unknown number of vampires who might even be working together without additional protection? Also, Diane doesn't only need protection, she needs to be trained to protect herself as well. I don't think Edward would recommend Raven for the job, given their history, but Grace might ask Raven to train Diane anyway, or Edward might trust Greg enough to ask him for help.

Willing to let her protect Diane ALONE? No. Still makes sense for Nanase being the "contact". Like, better if Nanase will help with the explaining than keeping them separate.

And yes, Diane definitely needs Greg's training.

Actually, this is not just about Diane. If the concentration of vampires in Moperville is alarming, EVERYONE with summoning talent is in need of protection. ... would be funny if they tell Edward about the vampires and he mentions "Damn, we must do something with Diane" before being told about the rest of stuff.

13 hours ago, Scotty said:

I think we can agree that the chances of Diane gaining access to her affinity, either by mark or by training and awakening, is pretty high considering the company she keeps, but would Arthur Arthur think she's worth sending bodyguards on the off chance she might become a vampire slayer?

Also point. Edward might not have the option to assign agents to guard Diane even if he would want to. Making Nanase the best of his limited options. Nanase AND SUSAN.

2 hours ago, Alwaysnewguy said:

Edward may be worried that Tedd will figure out why she left on his own if he finds out what she does for a living. Remember that he already knows that his 'parents', plural, where trying to figure out why he had zero magic potential, so he's already aware that his mother knew about it. If he then finds out that she is a "legendary monster hunter with a long family history of fighting monsters and evil wizards..." the connections aren't so hard to draw, especially for a genius like Tedd.

I think that the idea is to not mention Noriko to Tedd AT ALL. The more he would think about her, the more likely is he will get to this or some other dangerous conclusion, no matter how innocent the information he will be provided will look.

[Scotty 1,061]

6 hours ago, Alwaysnewguy said:

Edward may be worried that Tedd will figure out why she left on his own if he finds out what she does for a living. Remember that he already knows that his 'parents', plural, where trying to figure out why he had zero magic potential, so he's already aware that his mother knew about it. If he then finds out that she is a "legendary monster hunter with a long family history of fighting monsters and evil wizards..." the connections aren't so hard to draw, especially for a genius like Tedd.

 

3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I think that the idea is to not mention Noriko to Tedd AT ALL. The more he would think about her, the more likely is he will get to this or some other dangerous conclusion, no matter how innocent the information he will be provided will look.

It's also possible that Tedd already considered his mom leaving was because of him not having magic potential, that could have been why he became so withdrawn for several years. I wonder if when William and Gillian came to Edward to ask for help programming the TFG, Tedd saw that as a chance to be more than his parents thought he could be.

[hkmaly 490]

55 minutes ago, Scotty said:

7 hours ago, Alwaysnewguy said:

Edward may be worried that Tedd will figure out why she left on his own if he finds out what she does for a living. Remember that he already knows that his 'parents', plural, where trying to figure out why he had zero magic potential, so he's already aware that his mother knew about it. If he then finds out that she is a "legendary monster hunter with a long family history of fighting monsters and evil wizards..." the connections aren't so hard to draw, especially for a genius like Tedd.

 

4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I think that the idea is to not mention Noriko to Tedd AT ALL. The more he would think about her, the more likely is he will get to this or some other dangerous conclusion, no matter how innocent the information he will be provided will look.

It's also possible that Tedd already considered his mom leaving was because of him not having magic potential, that could have been why he became so withdrawn for several years. I wonder if when William and Gillian came to Edward to ask for help programming the TFG, Tedd saw that as a chance to be more than his parents thought he could be.

Well ... we are working with a "Edward thinks that Tedd thinks" stuff here. And Edward may be worried that "legendary monster hunter" might make Tedd think that what he did with TFG is not enough. This would obviously mean that either Edward is not aware how much his son managed to do (if he IS aware, how can he not realize that Tedd must have some rare abilities to do that?) OR that Edward is afraid that TEDD is not aware how much he managed to do (which, actually, was right until the tournament: Tedd didn't realized his ability to see magic is something extraordinary.)

 

Or, he knows something we don't which changes situation. Or, he lies and what he's ACTUALLY afraid of is Tedd trying to find Noriko for example. Or it's really the "Any mention of Noriko is dangerous" hypothesis.

Anyway, Edward not understanding Tedd's gender fluidity means that he don't understand his son (or daughter :-)) as good as he thinks, which can mean his OTHER conclusions, including the "he will get withdrawn again", may also be wrong.

[Scotty 1,061]

10 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Anyway, Edward not understanding Tedd's gender fluidity means that he don't understand his son (or daughter :-)) as good as he thinks, which can mean his OTHER conclusions, including the "he will get withdrawn again", may also be wrong.

That's what I was getting at, after Tedd's outburst offering to work on the TFG, Edward said the last time he was like that was before his mother left. Edward might not have been aware that Tedd came to the conclusion that she left because of him because Tedd wouldn't talk about it. And when Sarah mentioned that his parents could be wrong about his magic potential, Tedd said he wasn't sure he liked the idea of them being wrong and that thinking about it was "bringing on the angst" and not being able to explain why. He might have really early on been just as convinced about his impairment as his parent were and despite him working to bypass that (by figuring out how magic works and making gadgets that harness it) when things started contradicting the impairment (his being able to resist magic and disenchant himself, and later on finding out that his ability to see how magic works was in fact a type of magic itself) it probably became matter of "If my parents are so great, how could they have missed this?" or "how would they react to knowing I can do this when they failed to see it?"

[The Old Hack 2,448]

On 4/10/2016 at 3:11 AM, SeriousJupiter said:

Sadly, yes. What's the matter with those kids?

Let me see. Tedd has a transphobic father who has repeatedly harmed him with heteronormative microaggressions. He no longer trusts his father, which is absolutely tragic but an all too common consequence of this sort of thing.

Sarah has a very unusual spell that would instantly put her on the map of not only the DGB but ANY intelligence organisation with awareness of magic. If she tells Mr. Verres about this, he tells the DGB. If the DGB finds out, potentially any mole in there may relay that to other intelligence organisations. Rinse and repeat. Once she lets that one out, she is a target for life. Or in very short form: Three can keep a secret if two are dead.

Ellen is very concerned for Tedd and is terrified that letting the old secrets about Tedd's mother out may -- may -- hurt him and set him back years of growth. She is not by any means sure of this but does not wish to take the chance.

Nanase is no longer staying silent. She is with Elliot in this.

Justin is not that close to Mr. Verres, and an earlier conversation between the two indicates that Justin is somewhat leery of fully trusting him.

As far as I know, Susan has no secrets she has withheld from Mr. Verres. She is at most respecting the requests of friends not to blab, which is not quite the same thing.

Grace does not have much in the way of secrets. She does, however, have a very strong attachment to Tedd. If Tedd asks her to be silent about something, she is.

I hope that answers your question.

[Scotty 1,061]

Susan has only told 2 others about the France trip, Sarah and Grace. This is apparently the first time Elliot's heard of Susan being attacked in France and he obviously didn't know about about Jerry and his promise to Susan. It's not that she's withholding the info, she'll tell if someone asks about it, and so far only Sarah and Grace have asked, Nanase was in the "needs to know" category since she was involved in France, but for everyone else, it wouldn't seem important to her that they knew. I would be very surprised if she went to edward shortly after awakening to tell him about Jerry. Edward likely isn't aware of what happened in France at all, and probably believes that Nanase's magic came from the ASMA stuff.

Justin's a special case, yeah Edward did imply that if Justin told anyone about the stuff that he know, it'd be bad. But Justin did ask if Edward would have to kill him for knowing too much so I wouldn't be surprised if Edward was just saying what he said to sound dramatic, but actually didn't really mean it. Since they had that conversation, Edward's become aware of both Diane and Charlotte and will shortly find out about Ashley.  Luke already knew about magic before he went to the card tournament, and had "scanned" several people there to find out who else had magic, he approached Justin with questions and Justin being aware that he'd been "scanned" tried to be selective in what information he could give. As far as I can tell Justin's done better at not betraying Edward's trust than Ellen, Nanase and Elliot have.

I can understand Edward having words with Elliot about the fact that Elliot didn't stick to the transformation routine which lead to his accident and Ashley finding out. But for the most part he'll sigh and remind him to be more careful.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Justin's a special case, yeah Edward did imply that if Justin told anyone about the stuff that he know, it'd be bad. But Justin did ask if Edward would have to kill him for knowing too much so I wouldn't be surprised if Edward was just saying what he said to sound dramatic, but actually didn't really mean it.

 

 

As far as I can tell Justin's done better at not betraying Edward's trust than Ellen, Nanase and Elliot have.

 

Out of pure curiosity. How is Justin supposed to know whether Mr. Verres is being dramatic or not?

Also, please give examples of how Ellen, Nanase and Elliot have betrayed Edward's trust in them. I cannot offhand think of any.

[Scotty 1,061]

I'm not saying that Justin shouldn't worry about what Edward said, of course he doesn't know whether Edward was being dramatic or serious. As a reader though, I can see a possibility that Edward may not have been serious about it. It's one thing for Edward to say something even in the hopes that none of them go blabbing about magic and such, but in the end, these are Tedd's friends and if Edward did anything to them it would alienate Tedd which is why I don't see Edward doing anything except give them a stern talking to.

Well I mentioned the reason for Elliot being lax in his preventing accidental transformations leading to someone finding out about him. But also he gave away the fact that he knew other people that had other abilities, his assumption that Ashley might have had a magic spell lead her to believe Elliot knew how common magic was.

In the case of Ellen and Nanase, I guess it'd be more Nanase's fault that Diane and Charlotte knew about the existence of magic because she wasn't very discreet about using magic in public. Ellen would be guilty by association in that case.

 

Something I just realized though, Edward's warning to Justin came just before Arthur Arthur's announcement that magic was real. What are the chances of Edward at that moment thinking "Whelp, there goes my circle of eight."

[The Old Hack 2,448]

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Well I mentioned the reason for Elliot being lax in his preventing accidental transformations leading to someone finding out about him. But also he gave away the fact that he knew other people that had other abilities, his assumption that Ashley might have had a magic spell lead her to believe Elliot knew how common magic was.

In the case of Ellen and Nanase, I guess it'd be more Nanase's fault that Diane and Charlotte knew about the existence of magic because she wasn't very discreet about using magic in public. Ellen would be guilty by association in that case.

'Betrayal' is nonetheless a far too strong word to employ. At what point did Mr. Verres exact a promise from them to never tell anyone else about magic? He has urged them to be careful, yes, but that is not quite the same thing.

[Scotty 1,061]

That's another reason I think Edward might not have been really serious about it, if he didn't give any of the others that warning, why would he suddenly do that with Justin? This makes the idea that Edward used Justin's comment about killing him for knowing too much as an opportunity to mess with him a bit seem plausible.

[Vorlonagent 442]

2 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

'Betrayal' is nonetheless a far too strong word to employ. At what point did Mr. Verres exact a promise from them to never tell anyone else about magic? He has urged them to be careful, yes, but that is not quite the same thing.

Verres didn't extract a promise but he did set conditions and expectations.

"Don't betray my trust and keep the circle at 8. We'll be fine."

[Scotty 1,061]

That's what we were talking about, and it was directed at Justin. Hack asked at what point did he do that to any of the others, and there's no indication that he ever did, so why single out Justin?

[ijuin 572]

Probably because Justin had, barely an hour before, appeared on the television news being interviewed about the incident. Edward probably felt that Justin needed a reminder to be careful about to whom he reveals information--Sarah is within the "need-to-know", but her sister Carol is not, and Carol's TV audience especially does not need to know.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Verres didn't extract a promise but he did set conditions and expectations.

"Don't betray my trust and keep the circle at 8. We'll be fine."

I still would like to see examples of Ellen, Nanase and Elliot actively violating that principle with malice aforethought rather than through teenage overconfidence and the pressure of circumstance. Until then, I personally will not accept the use of the verb 'betray.'

[Scotty 1,061]

Ok, since you mention malice, then no, they didn't have that intent when they got others involved in their magical lives.

[hkmaly 490]

11 hours ago, Scotty said:

Edward likely isn't aware of what happened in France at all, and probably believes that Nanase's magic came from the ASMA stuff.

... seriously? He may not know details, but I find very unlikely DGB didn't noticed that Nanase awakened in France.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

I'm not saying that Justin shouldn't worry about what Edward said, of course he doesn't know whether Edward was being dramatic or serious. As a reader though, I can see a possibility that Edward may not have been serious about it. It's one thing for Edward to say something even in the hopes that none of them go blabbing about magic and such, but in the end, these are Tedd's friends and if Edward did anything to them it would alienate Tedd which is why I don't see Edward doing anything except give them a stern talking to.

I don't think he was dramatic just for being dramatic. Sure, he doesn't want to kill them, and there likely aren't many alternative options, but on the other hand he really wanted them to not talk, so he likely wanted to scare them as much as possible.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

Something I just realized though, Edward's warning to Justin came just before Arthur Arthur's announcement that magic was real. What are the chances of Edward at that moment thinking "Whelp, there goes my circle of eight."

... yup. The importance of keeping magic secret was really much lower after that. Still, there are other informations the "circle of eight" have which is still important to keep secret.

7 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

'Betrayal' is nonetheless a far too strong word to employ

5 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

"Don't betray my trust and keep the circle at 8. We'll be fine."

It was not betrayal, but the second condition - of keeping the circle at 8 - seems broken already.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

and there's no indication that he ever did

There is also no indication that he DIDN'T. He certainly talked more with at least Tedd, Grace, Elliot and Ellen than what we saw.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

But also he gave away the fact that he knew other people that had other abilities, his assumption that Ashley might have had a magic spell lead her to believe Elliot knew how common magic was.

... yup, that talk was SO bad I'm not sure if Mr. Illuminated or Tara revealed Ashley more than Elliot. No malice, but ... no other aforethought either.

[Vorlonagent 442]

1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

I still would like to see examples of Ellen, Nanase and Elliot actively violating that principle with malice aforethought rather than through teenage overconfidence and the pressure of circumstance. Until then, I personally will not accept the use of the verb 'betray.'

I'd agree with this.  The issue isn't "betray trust", it's "keep the circle at 8" that the problem now.  Depending on how you look at it, we could be as high as 12...