160 replies to this topic

[B.T. Isaac]

double post

[MorphtronicScientist]

No. I'm pretty sure art is supposed to reflect real life.

I don't know what disturbs me more. The fact that you just called webcomics art

Probably because you're trolling.

or the fact that you apparently think portraying women as sex objects reflects how women are in real life.

I'm saying Sarah is being portrayed accurately. Did you completely forget what we were talking about?

Dude, what. Do you really...like...I have no...what.
You seriously think there's something wrong with a character type simply existing?

A character type? No. A character type specifically made up to appeal for socially incompetent sexual deviants, for media that is specifically aimed at such socially incompetent sexual deviants? Absolutely.

Yep...I think "Dude, what. Do you really...like...I have no...what." is an accurate response.

[The Old Hack]

Contrary evidence? Sorry to break this to you, but most of the contrary evidence I receive only works with the exact wording of everything that I said. That's called loophole abuse. If I say a story arc received unanimously negative feedback, reactions made BEFORE people even new where the arc is going are not valid counter examples.

On the other hand, the Moon is not made of green cheese, which means you are wrong!

There! I have just disproved your claim, using your methods of drawing on entirely irrelevant and absurd 'counterevidence.' Matter settled!

[B.T. Isaac]

Probably because you're trolling.

I never troll. I suck at it, and every time I tried trolling someone they always turned out to be another troll. One with years of experience.

I'm saying Sarah is being portrayed accurately. Did you completely forget what we were talking about?

I have never met a girl/woman who has breast size issues (more specifically one that wants a bigger chest size) though I don't doubt they exist. I have also pointed out the painfully obvious, that women who get breast enlargements do so because the male dominated mainstream media told them they need to do it to become attractive. Bottom line is, accurate or not, this portrayal of women is sexist.

Yep...I think "Dude, what. Do you really...like...I have no...what." is an accurate response.

And I'm the one ignoring people's arguments. Yeah right.

On the other hand, the Moon is not made of green cheese, which means you are wrong!

There! I have just disproved your claim, using your methods of drawing on entirely irrelevant and absurd 'counterevidence.' Matter settled!

You know, I was willing to believe I may have been partially at fault here untill I read this. Judging from what you just said, it becauses way too obvious that I'm not the one here who disregards what other people say.

[MorphtronicScientist]

I never troll. I suck at it, and every time I tried trolling someone they always turned out to be another troll. One with years of experience.

You've been doing it at this forum for several months. :/

I'm saying Sarah is being portrayed accurately. Did you completely forget what we were talking about?

Bottom line is, accurate or not, this portrayal of women is sexist.

Do you even know what sexism is? It's discrimination or attitudes that foster stereotypes. If it's accurate, it isn't sexist. If there are thousands of people out there who not only want, but are willing to pay for, larger breasts, then having a single character want that same thing is impossible to be sexist.

Yep...I think "Dude, what. Do you really...like...I have no...what." is an accurate response.

And I'm the one ignoring people's arguments. Yeah right.

I never said that, plus, I hardly think "this character type that is literally everywhere is MOST DEFINITELY only for porn" is actually an argument.

[showler]

I am such a big fan of this argument style:

"Everybody hated that"

"I didn't"

"Shut up, you don't know what you thought."

[B.T. Isaac]

You've been doing it at this forum for several months.

You're not the first person who called me a troll for disagreeing with them. One of them I remember didn't like the fact that I pointed out how hitting (I.E. not spanking but outright hitting) children is wrong. He also had emo poetry posted all over his YouTube channel. Another one didn't like that I disagree with his wild ideas of a global conspiracy run by women to oppress men that supposedly controlled human civilization since the dawn of time.

If it's accurate, it isn't sexist. If there are thousands of people out there who not only want, but are willing to pay for, larger breasts, then having a single character want that same thing is impossible to be sexist.

Even if such characters are part of the reason why some women want to get bigger breasts?

I never said that, plus, I hardly think "this character type that is literally everywhere is MOST DEFINITELY only for porn" is actually an argument.

That is not what I said. Though it doesn't change the fact that the moe character type was specifically designed to appeal to a certain demographic. And their prevalence in mainstream media is definitely going to have an impact on young girls who will want to be moe to appeal to guys they like, and will inevitably attract the wrong element.

[MorphtronicScientist]

You're not the first person who called me a troll for disagreeing with them.

I never said anything about disagreeing, I disagree all the time. You're a troll because you constantly hate on the comic that you joined a forum for, you pot outlandish ideas, and then ignore proof given to you to counter it. I'm not even talking about this argument about "unanimous hatred", I'm pretty sure it's the most hated of all the stories because it should have been an EGS:NP storyline instead and yada yada. I'm talking about that stuff about breaking up and lesbianism and saying comics aren't art (which granted, nobody has countered, but I don't really see the point) and all that crap that I've experienced.

If it's accurate, it isn't sexist. If there are thousands of people out there who not only want, but are willing to pay for, larger breasts, then having a single character want that same thing is impossible to be sexist.

Even if such characters are part of the reason why some women want to get bigger breasts?

Well, yes. You can't blame the author for stating a fact, even if authors are the reason for it anyway.
Besides, it's not because of those characters that people want large breasts, it's because large breasts have been scientifically proven to be sexually appealing. Plus, girls are known for their self-image issues. Put those two facts together and you've got several thousands of surgeries.
I mean, there's a market for penis enlargement, sexual appeal is a huge thing in this world, much to my chagrin.

"this character type that is literally everywhere is MOST DEFINITELY only for porn" is not what I said.

(due to the limiting on quote tags, I had to paraphrase this quote using sections of my post without using tags)
Well, I'm sorry, but it's just, saying that there are moes in porn and some people were influenced to do depraved things is like saying there are ponies in porn and some kids were influenced by violent video games to shoot people. No matter how true it is, it doesn't help your argument.

Though it doesn't change the fact that the moe character type was specifically designed to appeal to a certain demographic. And their prevalence in mainstream media is definitely going to have an impact on young girls who will want to be moe to appeal to guys they like.

Both of those things are true. That may or may not be bad. I will stand by saying those things are not technically bad, but could have negative consequences.

[Chrysicat]

Well, I'm sorry, but it's just, saying that there are moes in porn and some people were influenced to do depraved things is like saying there are ponies in porn and some kids were influenced by violent video games to shoot people. No matter how true it is, it doesn't help your argument.

Oh, eeeew! Now I'm picturing someone playing Mister Hands with Twilight Sparkle!
And I know you didn't mean it that way, but stilll....

As for Benedickt: I own the collector's edition of Hyperdimension Neptunia. I'm also a straight transgirl. Do I need to be institutionalised for wanting to rape little girls, or are you willing to admit that not everyone that accepts moe is a pervert?

[MorphtronicScientist]

That's what I'm here for.

[Zorua]

In my opinion, small-breasted women who surgically enhance their endowment are, in a broad generalization, shallow and petty. They value their physical appearance over their personality, and believe that the man (woman?) of their affections will only like them more if they are more physically attractive. This is stupid. Relationships based on physical appearance/pleasure are doomed to fail. If she wants to be my girlfriend, she'd better be my friend first. The world would have a lot less failed relationships if people tried to look for Mr. or Ms. Right, instead of Mr. or Ms. Fanservice.

And seriously, big breasts are just annoying to have. I don't know first-hand, but I can gather info well enough. They're always in the way, they add weight, they make it harder to find clothes that fit, and they make people pay attention more to how you look instead of who you are or what you've done (which can be a detriment when trying to make friends, find a decent boyfriend, or get a decent job). Oh, but attracting shallow guys who would dump you because he doesn't really like you is definitely worth it.

That is my two cents.

[MorphtronicScientist]

Yes, that's true. However, they still do it. I've learned to not complain when people act stupid because it just happens. Sarah is acting stupid, but so does everyone else in the story at some points.

[Man on the Moon]

Such a bizarre thread. On one side, B.T. Isaac being his charming self, so much that even when he has a point, you can't agree with it because of all the venom it's laced with. On the other side, the 'reasonables' arguing in favor of moe and calling women acting in a way they don't approve of "stupid".

[MorphtronicScientist]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure going against your natural body structure in order to fulfill your shallow desires to have attention that will probably end up harming you is pretty stupid. I don't see why you would disagree.

[Zorua]

Such a bizarre thread. On one side, B.T. Isaac being his charming self, so much that even when he has a point, you can't agree with it because of all the venom it's laced with. On the other side, the 'reasonables' arguing in favor of moe and calling women acting in a way they don't approve of "stupid".

Me, I prefer "cute" over "hot" any day. But that's just me. And nothing against naturally large breasts; it's just the surgically-large breasts that I don't understand. Why willingly put yourself through all that all of a sudden? It doesn't make sense to me.

I've learned to not complain when people act stupid because it just happens. Sarah is acting stupid, but so does everyone else in the world at some points.

Fully agreed. Even the smart people are idiots at times.

Now, I think a train got derailed somewhere in this conversation. Let's see if we can get it back on track, shall we?

[MorphtronicScientist]

There's not really anything left to discuss outside of what is wrong with moes and what they have to do with this comic.

[jmucchiello]

Yet women in fiction are depicted wanting bigger boobs. Also there are three things everybody who depicts women this way have in common: They're all men, have never been laid in their entire lives, and are in fact too introverted to even talk to a woman in real life.

And I already said I KNOW more than one woman who has expressed a desire for larger breasts. Yes, these are women I've actual spoken to on many occasions. Are they shallow? Who cares? Are they influenced by media to believe they need big boobs to attract a man? Well, when they told me, they were already married women so, that somewhat strikes down the idea they didn't think they could get a man.

I'm sorry but not all women are victims of the media.

[The Old Hack]

You know, I was willing to believe I may have been partially at fault here untill I read this.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Judging from what you just said, it becauses way too obvious that I'm not the one here who disregards what other people say.

Oh please. You blatantly ridicule, dismiss or ignore anything that goes counter to your 'facts' -- which all too often are mere opinions without even a shred of logic to even allow them to serve as hypothesises. You make the absurd claim that reactions to the Celida storyline were 'unanimously negative', which is ridiculous on the face of it. In the YEARS I have been on the EGS forums, here or on Keenspot, I have yet to see the posters be in unanimous agreement about ANY storyline at all, whether their opinions were positive or negative. Thus, I made a very superficial search of posts related to the Celida storyline and to my complete lack of surprise immediately found a number of positive, negative and neutral opinions just like with every other storyline Dan has ever made. When I then post this evidence that opinions were NOT unanimously negative, you promptly dismiss it on the basis of some folderol about George W. Bush that had about as much to do with the subject as whether the Moon is made of cheese or not. (I admit I find it quite humorous that even in the matter of Bush, people were not unanimous, and you still dragged it in as 'evidence.')

A good reasoned argument works thusly: one starts with an opinion, one then ensures it is logical enough to serve as a hypothesis, after that one presents the hypothesis for discussion along with evidence in support of it to promote it to theory, and finally those involved examine countering evidence and discuss whether it is strong enough to disprove the theory or not. If not, it is usually accepted as fact until such time evidence appears to upset it.

You, on the other hand, start by presenting your opinions as incontravertible facts even if they fly in the face of all logic. Afterwards you continue to insist that they are factual until proven not to be, and then ridicule, dismiss or simply ignore any arguments or evidence to the contrary. It is putting the cart squarely in front of the horse as far as reasoned discussion is concerned. It is especially sad because it means that even at such times where you may have a point it is likely to be ignored, simply because reasoned discussion has no place in your notion of how a debate should take place.

[Avistew]

I like pornographic dating sims. I guess I'm going to have to start killing girls! Oh, and become male, overwieght, move to a basement and retroactively get back my virginity from the thousands of times I got laid.
Seriously, the whole "video games turn people into killers" is getting old. Killers sometimes play video games that appeal to them. If they're the kind to rape and kill girls, they go for games with girls. If they're the kind to shoot, they go for shooters. That doesn't mean the games caused it.

As for changing your body, say let them do what they want. Sure, you can define that as "being shallow" because they change their natural body, but I would argue that dying your hair, getting piercings and tattoes, shaving your body hair all fall in the same category, to various degrees, so I do see with plastic surgery has such a bad rep in comparison with the others. If they feel better about themselves afterward, good for them. Sure it's sad that they were insecure to begin with, but if they feel better it's good that they did it. And the article does mention that most women do it for themselves, and don't have somebody who wants them to do it.
Hell, I knew a woman who got a breast enlargment, following which her husband was significantly less attracted to her, because he liked her the way she was. She still felt it was worth it, and she pointed out she never did it for him anyways so she didn't care one bit that he didn't like it. It seems obvious to me you can do it because you feel like it. Sometimes, no matter how much your partner finds you attractive, you won't feel the same way until you change something about yourself. Sometimes you lose weight, sometimes you dye your hair, sometimes you do something a bit bigger and more permanent. So what? There is no reason to go around calling these women stupid and shallow, it's not like you know every single one of them.

[Daphnaie]

Sometimes you lose weight, sometimes you dye your hair, sometimes you do something a bit bigger and more permanent. So what? There is no reason to go around calling these women stupid and shallow, it's not like you know every single one of them.

I was just about to type out a response in regards to "people who get cosmetic surgery are stupid", but luckily Avistew did it for me! I completely agree with what she said and quoted her last three sentences in particular because I believe they're worth emphasising