Story Comic for 2016 April 25th

[The Old Hack 2,448]

38 minutes ago, partner555 said:

Nor do we want to give them any computer viruses. 

This reminds me of a completely ridiculous dream I had a while ago. In it, there was a huge fuss about a strain of Ebola which for some reason attacked the teeth first and had somehow managed to get on the Internet. In order to block its propagation, Danish health services instructed everyone to carefully brush their teeth before going online.

And then there was a TV clip of our Prime Minister who was absolutely red-faced with fury. He screamed at some hapless quailing guy in a lab coat, "VIRUSES DO NOT PROPAGATE ON THE INTERNET!" Then he paused a moment before going on, "All right, that sounded stupid, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN!"

[ijuin 572]

That bit with the Prime Minister reminds me of the newscaster alien Morbo from Futurama, who is known for shouting "(thing) DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!"

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

 

[hkmaly 490]

On 05/07/2016 at 9:53 AM, The Old Hack said:

And who has to rely on it? You just need to make use of the result. A disaster area is much, much easier to conquer than a healthy community with infrastructure intact.

My point was that European leaders didn't PLANNED to kill off natives with diseases. Sure when they did, they took that opportunity, even tried to spread the diseases more ...

On 05/07/2016 at 2:34 PM, CritterKeeper said:

There's a whole book, 1491, which summarized a lot of this a decade ago, but I first read about it in an online article of the same name.  Really makes you wish you could travel back in time and see for yourself!

... but mostly, how catastrophic effect diseases have on natives were as big surprise for them as for the natives, and the first, most catastrophic epidemics were started BEFORE Europeans realized what's happening.

Indeed, that article CritterKeeper linked mentions that at few places, European settlers STOPPED because the resistance was too high ... then next wave was surprised the resistance got much smaller.

The part about pigs is also interesting.

On 05/07/2016 at 2:54 PM, Scotty said:

I think before we could travel through time, we'd have to figure out a way to fully cleanse ourselves of any diseases that could potentially be 10-100x worse than anything in the time periods we'd visit. Don't want to give the early european settlers PAX Pox.

I suspect that even what we perceives as normal flu could have catastrophic effect on people thousands years ago. And if we go to more distant past ... the bacteria which lives in our digestive tract and are generally perceived as good could destroy whole ecosystems.

Luckily, time travel to point before discovery of time travel seem to be impossible. As proved by general lack of crowds of time travellers at historic points. Seriously, what is easier to believe - that in future, people will be able to use technology responsively and stop the ones who don't want to, or that time travel is impossible?

On 05/07/2016 at 3:27 PM, partner555 said:

Nor do we want to give them any computer viruses. 

Computer viruses are luckily too dependent on their host. Most current computer viruses will be unable to spread on system with just DOS, and the few which would will run too slow.

And the truly dangerous computer viruses, ones who are actually capable to adapt themselves and evolve ... well, not even today's computers have enough power for them.

[Don Edwards 548]

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Luckily, time travel to point before discovery of time travel seem to be impossible. As proved by general lack of crowds of time travellers at historic points. Seriously, what is easier to believe - that in future, people will be able to use technology responsively and stop the ones who don't want to, or that time travel is impossible?

Time travelers do a lot of voluntary policing of each other, and it also turns out that reality is somewhat self-correcting.

Example of both

[hkmaly 490]

36 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

Time travelers do a lot of voluntary policing of each other, and it also turns out that reality is somewhat self-correcting.

Quote

These time machines operate on a combination of Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure rules (time spent in the past equals time elapsed in the future, aka The Clock In San Dimas Is Always Running) and Back to the Future rules (changes take time to become permanent; i.e. they have until the “photograph” fades to undo them).

These rules are as convenient and as likely to be real as EGS rules for transformations. Meaning, only way for them to happen is if some entity with sort-of mind and flair for drama makes them.

But I must admit that both that story and EGS are good and funny reading, in big part BECAUSE such entity was involved.

[Maplestrip 20]

Say, I know I am about two weeks late, but if I may refocus the discussion on the page initially under discussion again: I hate that this page doesn't show the title of Elliot's book. Looks rather blank, based on panel 2. This may, of course, be a mistake by Dan, but it creates more doubt that the totally normal book really is Elliot's spellbook. (Maybe it really is a totally normal book?)

And, to weigh in on the whole gender discussion; I feel like this page further confirms that Elliot could be agender or gender-neutral in some form, which I have been suggesting since back when this page came out. I am happy ^_^

If Elliot got a new power, may it be "turning other people into men"? That would be amusing, knowing Ashley's comment on this page. It would be the cutest non-binary relationship :3

[The Old Hack 2,448]

13 hours ago, hkmaly said:

My point was that European leaders didn't PLANNED to kill off natives with diseases.

Who cares? If your colonists move in and find a nice depopulated area with lots of land ripe for tilling and growing, they'll take it and won't complain.

[CritterKeeper 1,102]

Hmm, compared to his more recent "gender-meh" attitude, it was interesting to see Elliot state outright he's mentally male even when transformed, in the immediate aftermath of his first outing as Cheerleadra.

[ProfessorTomoe 1,308]

58 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

Hmm, compared to his more recent "gender-meh" attitude, it was interesting to see Elliot state outright he's mentally male even when transformed, in the immediate aftermath of his first outing as Cheerleadra.

Hard to believe that strip was posted almost six years ago, on my birthday no less.

[Matoyak 51]

1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

Hmm, compared to his more recent "gender-meh" attitude, it was interesting to see Elliot state outright he's mentally male even when transformed, in the immediate aftermath of his first outing as Cheerleadra.

This is one reason I pushed against the "Elliot is genderfluid" idea that was going around on the forums before the "gender-neutral / gender-meh" shift in the story. He identified as male regardless of his outer form, so that's what I felt he should be known/referred to as. This has clearly changed by now though, or has at least become much less the case.

[Maplestrip 20]

5 hours ago, Matoyak said:

6 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Hmm, compared to his more recent "gender-meh" attitude, it was interesting to see Elliot state outright he's mentally male even when transformed, in the immediate aftermath of his first outing as Cheerleadra.

This is one reason I pushed against the "Elliot is genderfluid" idea that was going around on the forums before the "gender-neutral / gender-meh" shift in the story. He identified as male regardless of his outer form, so that's what I felt he should be known/referred to as. This has clearly changed by now though, or has at least become much less the case.

Dan may or may not have changed the way in which he writes Elliot in these six years. After all, Dan has been learning about gender-related topics a lot since he started the comic. It may also be, in-universe, that Elliot simply didn't understand himself well enough and went for a "of course I'm male I've always been told I'm male"-perspective. Knowing Elliot, this is not out-of-character at all.

[Scotty 1,061]

It's also possible that Elliot still identifies as male, but can enjoy being female. To Elliot, this may actually be less of a gender identity issue and more of "I'm not going to be a stick in the mud about this and just acknowledge the fact that this is soo freaking amazing".

[ProfessorTomoe 1,308]

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

It's also possible that Elliot still identifies as male, but can enjoy being female.

This is what I'm thinking. Elliot doesn't mind morphing into a girl, but he would likely have a bit of a problem if a male approached him in a "What are you doing Friday night?" manner when he's in female form.

[Vorlonagent 442]

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

It's also possible that Elliot still identifies as male, but can enjoy being female. To Elliot, this may actually be less of a gender identity issue and more of "I'm not going to be a stick in the mud about this and just acknowledge the fact that this is soo freaking amazing".

I get a "recognition" vibe from Elliot.  I am likely projecting somewhat here but he feels similar to my own headspace.   Though I identify male, always have, always will, I have, for lack of a better term, a strong female voice inside of me.  If I got a cheerleadra-like superhero spell, both the male and female sides of me might enjoy the experience, albeit for very different reasons. 

[Scotty 1,061]

3 minutes ago, ProfessorTomoe said:

This is what I'm thinking. Elliot doesn't mind morphing into a girl, but he would likely have a bit of a problem if a male approached him in a "What are you doing Friday night?" manner when he's in female form.

Yeah, I mean, we've seen Elliot being attracted to males before, 2 times were under the influence of the TFG adjusting his sexual preference, and once under the influence of secret ID mind alteration, but as far as his normal female forms, he's still strongly attracted to females and I don't really see that changing. I guess it really depends on if Ashley finds out about the TFG and wants to try out one of the male variants. Although based on Grace and Tedd's relationship, sexual preference wouldn't likely matter.

12 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

I get a "recognition" vibe from Elliot.  I am likely projecting somewhat here but he feels similar to my own headspace.   Though I identify male, always have, always will, I have, for lack of a better term, a strong female voice inside of me.  If I got a cheerleadra-like superhero spell, both the male and female sides of me might enjoy the experience, albeit for very different reasons. 

This is very much a "your mileage may vary" situation. Everyone given a similar situation to Elliot will react and adjust differently.

[hkmaly 490]

12 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

On 05/08/2016 at 0:40 AM, hkmaly said:

My point was that European leaders didn't PLANNED to kill off natives with diseases.

Who cares? If your colonists move in and find a nice depopulated area with lots of land ripe for tilling and growing, they'll take it and won't complain.

Me? I was trying to point out that noone waited for specific technology before the travel expansion started. Although, considering noone planned the travel expansion itself, it may not be that good argument. The second argument, that the killing would happen even if they arrived sooner or later, is more important.

2 hours ago, ProfessorTomoe said:

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

It's also possible that Elliot still identifies as male, but can enjoy being female.

This is what I'm thinking. Elliot doesn't mind morphing into a girl, but he would likely have a bit of a problem if a male approached him in a "What are you doing Friday night?" manner when he's in female form.

I don't think he would have bigger problems rejecting that male than when in male form. Unlike his gender identity, his sexual preferences seems solid.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

we've seen Elliot being attracted to males before, 2 times were under the influence of the TFG adjusting his sexual preference, and once under the influence of secret ID mind alteration

... mostly solid

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

as far as his normal female forms, he's still strongly attracted to females and I don't really see that changing. I guess it really depends on if Ashley finds out about the TFG and wants to try out one of the male variants.

Well, if Ashley will use TFG, Elliot can use it as well. But note that showing her TFG will likely be WORSE than what Elliot already told her from the secrecy point of view. It would actually be less dangerous if they get Ashley marked.

 

[InfiniteRemnant 141]

12 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

compared to his more recent "gender-meh" attitude

Okay, i like that term for eliot, can we keep it?

[Don Edwards 548]

17 hours ago, Maplestrip said:

(Maybe it really is a totally normal book?)

A totally normal book wouldn't need a title that says it's a totally normal book.

3 hours ago, ProfessorTomoe said:

This is what I'm thinking. Elliot doesn't mind morphing into a girl, but he would likely have a bit of a problem if a male approached him in a "What are you doing Friday night?" manner when he's in female form.

What's the problem? "Going out with my girlfriend."

[hkmaly 490]

14 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

3 hours ago, ProfessorTomoe said:

This is what I'm thinking. Elliot doesn't mind morphing into a girl, but he would likely have a bit of a problem if a male approached him in a "What are you doing Friday night?" manner when he's in female form.

What's the problem? "Going out with my girlfriend."

I'm sure Heidi would naturally answer like that. Mild-mannered? No way. I suspect even Elliot (I mean, in non-mind-altering transformation) would need to have that line prepared. (Of course, he WILL have it prepared after few cases this will happen.)

[Scotty 1,061]

5 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I'm sure Heidi would naturally answer like that. Mild-mannered? No way. I suspect even Elliot (I mean, in non-mind-altering transformation) would need to have that line prepared. (Of course, he WILL have it prepared after few cases this will happen.)

That's assuming Elliot was using a secret ID form at the time, in any other female form, Elliot would likely be awkward, annoyed and also asking Tedd to find a way to get the hammers back.

[hkmaly 490]

24 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I suspect even Elliot (I mean, in non-mind-altering transformation) would need to have that line prepared.

14 minutes ago, Scotty said:

in any other female form, Elliot would likely be awkward, annoyed and also asking Tedd to find a way to get the hammers back.

That's what I meant; Unless he will already have that line prepared, he won't be able to think about it on place and will instead be awkward, annoyed and ... hmmm ... that's good point. He totally might ask about getting hammers back.

 

[Don Edwards 548]

The thing is, Elliot's a lousy liar, so the straight unadorned unexplained truth is the best answer, and the answer he's likely to give if he doesn't think about it.

 

[The Old Hack 2,448]

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Me? I was trying to point out that noone waited for specific technology before the travel expansion started.

And I was trying to point out that BEFORE they had the technology, such an expansion would simply not be practical.

Examples: It was not actually Cristopher Columbus who 'discovered' the New World. It is known for certain that a Viking expedition made it to the Americas but that its attempt at colonisation failed due to attrition and logistics. It is also believed (and has been proven possible) that an Irish monk named Brendan went to America 500 years before that. But in both cases, sea travel remained too dangerous and impractical for a firm logistical line to be established, and so colonisation remained impossible.

It is not a question of 'waiting for the right technology.' It is more along the lines of heavier-than-air flight not really being widely undertaken until around the time of the Wright brothers. Greedy, expansionist rulers existed LONG before colonisation became technologically practical. Once the technology was there, it was really only a matter of time before the kings and rulers of Europe would figure out that there was LOOT out there -- and sent people to go get it for them.

Why 1492 specifically? It required two conditions. One, a man with the vision and technology to go out and look for loot. Two, financial backing from wealthy expansionist nobles -- and it turned out that Spain had the resources to spare, having just finished the Reconquista and having cleaned house inside her own borders (robbing and expelling all the Muslims and Jews). And so Cristoforo Colombo managed to cross the Atlantic and discover new lands to loot, plunder, subjugate and exploit.

An interesting little fact: A lot of people back then already knew or suspected that the Earth was round. They thought Columbus was an idiot, not because it would be impossible to reach India through circumnavigation of the Earth but because they had done the math and worked out that it would be a LONGER way to sail to India from Spain if you went west, not shorter. They were right, but Columbus happened to bump into another continent on the way and so his idea ended up making a profit anyway.

[Matoyak 51]

2 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

It is also believed (and has been proven possible) that an Irish monk named Brendan went to America 500 years before that..

That's an amusingly modern-sounding name for such a time period. Unlike other old names like Catherine or Adam, it doesn't sound old.