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Scotty

STORY: Wednesday April 27, 2016

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6 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Summoned weapons ARE magic weapons, Susan's ability doesn't let her teleport a weapon out of her chest, she summons a magic copy of it, hence why they're only good for 1 solid hit. So both references are correct.

Right. I'm just saying that Diane's power isn't necessarily going to be summoning anything. It could be anything related to magic weapons.

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12 minutes ago, Matoyak said:
19 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Summoned weapons ARE magic weapons, Susan's ability doesn't let her teleport a weapon out of her chest, she summons a magic copy of it, hence why they're only good for 1 solid hit. So both references are correct.

Right. I'm just saying that Diane's power isn't necessarily going to be summoning anything. It could be anything related to magic weapons.

While possible (not directly disproved by anything in story), the informations we have suggest that non-summoned magic weapons either don't exists or are not in scope of the talent Susan and Diane have.

As I said,

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Susan's TALENT was described as natural talent for spells that create objects out of magic and spider vampire talks about Diane summoning the bane one day.

Obviously, in D&D and lot of other places, enchanted weapons counts as magic weapons. This may not be true in EGS.

23 hours ago, Matoyak said:

or the legendary sword Excalibur glows with fire in her hands and shoots lightning blades out with each swing when wielded by her

You are not supposed to be able to wield Excalibur at all unless you are king (or, presumably, queen) of Britain. And it's Nanase who's supposed to have blood of queens.

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1 minute ago, hkmaly said:
10 minutes ago, Matoyak said:
16 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Summoned weapons ARE magic weapons, Susan's ability doesn't let her teleport a weapon out of her chest, she summons a magic copy of it, hence why they're only good for 1 solid hit. So both references are correct.

Right. I'm just saying that Diane's power isn't necessarily going to be summoning anything. It could be anything related to magic weapons.

While possible, the informations we have suggest that non-summoned magic weapons either don't exists or are not in scope of the talent Susan and Diane have.

As I said,

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Susan's TALENT was described as natural talent for spells that create objects out of magic and spider vampire talks about Diane summoning the bane one day.

Obviously, in D&D and lot of other places, enchanted weapons counts as magic weapons. This may not be true in EGS.

Yeah, enchanted weapons would count as magic weapons, but anyone can use those, the affinity being talked about for Susan and Diane would mean they have an advantage for being able to summon magic weapons at a moment's notice, without having to worry about carrying various enchanted weapons everywhere you go.

It's possible Susan's mark spell was a low level spell that required physical items placed in a marked container to allow the caster to summon magic version of them, but now that Susan's awakened she might be able to get a higher tier version of the spell that lets her create weapons she doesn't have in a container. Diane might also start of with the low tier version or maybe jump right to the next tier if she happens to awaken without being marked.

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4 hours ago, InfiniteRemnant said:

Talk to tedd, i'm sure he can make a watch for that.

I rather he made an app for that.

In fact, I have been wondering for a while now whether the spell books come in app form.

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19 minutes ago, partner555 said:

I rather he made an app for that.

In fact, I have been wondering for a while now whether the spell books come in app form.

I wonder, if Elliot got one of those hoodies with the large front pocket, put the spellbook in there, then transformed, would he merge with his spellbook and instantly know every spell he has? Honestly, I feel that would be cheating. :D

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2 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I wonder, if Elliot got one of those hoodies with the large front pocket, put the spellbook in there, then transformed, would he merge with his spellbook and instantly know every spell he has? Honestly, I feel that would be cheating. :D

I can't imagine why it wouldn't work, unless the whole fusion thing doesn't work with magic items.

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2 hours ago, Scotty said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Obviously, in D&D and lot of other places, enchanted weapons counts as magic weapons. This may not be true in EGS.

Yeah, enchanted weapons would count as magic weapons, but anyone can use those, the affinity being talked about for Susan and Diane would mean they have an advantage for being able to summon magic weapons at a moment's notice, without having to worry about carrying various enchanted weapons everywhere you go.

assuming for a second the affinity counts towards both summoned and enchanted magic weapons, I could see a spell for temporarily or permanently converting a mundane object into a magic weapon (Picture Ed from FMA Forming a spear out of rocks via alchemy, that kinda thing) but that's about it for non-sumoning field-applicable abilities.

and it doesn't really fit the scenario mato was describing. the bow trick and the bit with Excalibur are properties specific to the weapons not the wielder.

Ted doesn't have their affinity, nor any normal affinity really, yet he can make objects with enchantments built in. and a previous Q&A, one involving question about the FBI having wands if i remember right, has implied wands can be manufactured. so there has to be more to the 'bane' than access to or production capability for weaponizable enchanted product. otherwise they'd consider EVERY magic user high priority targets, not just specific ones. the 'at a moment's notice' bit is the most logical difference to assume.

Also, if someone really wanted to split hairs, alchemical creation and summoning aren't really that different. they both produce desposable weaponry out of what's immediately on hand. only difference is one has a material requirement.

Edited by InfiniteRemnant
typo correction

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2 minutes ago, InfiniteRemnant said:

assuming for a second the affinity counts towards both summoned and enchanted magic weapons, I could see a spell for temporarily or permanently converting a mundane object into a magic weapon (Picture Ed from FMA Forming a spear out of rocks via alchemy, that kinda thing) but that's about it for non-sumoning field-applicable abilities.

and it doesn't really fit the scenario mato was describing. the bow trick and the bit with Excalibur are properties specific to the weapons not the wielder.

Ted doesn't have their affinity, nor any normal affinity really, yet he can make objects with enchantments built in. and a previous Q&A, one involving question about the FBI having wands if i remember right, has implied wands can be manufactured. so there has to be more to the 'bane' than access to or production capability of producing weaponizable enchanted product. otherwise they'd consider EVERY magic user high priority targets, not just specific ones. the 'at a moment's notice' bit is the most logical difference.

Turning mundane items into weapons could work as well, pick up a pipe and turn it into a sword, maybe that would be the workaround for the higher level spell to give the caster a weapon without needing a stored physical item, instead of just creating one out of thin air, convert actual matter. a weapon created that way should certainly last longer than one solid hit too.

 

Tedd's enchantments work around technology that harnesses magic, the watches and wands are just catalysts, they hold some energy and as far as the watches go, the spell itself, the wands likely do as well have the spell "programmed" into it as well, but not sure. I think if we get into details on wands, for example the one Edward zapped Abraham with, that kind of spell would likely do some damage to a vampire as well, we know from Tara and Andrea's fight with the vampire (and the fact that Andrea had fought and killed 6 others prior to spider vamp) that you don't need summoned or enchanted weapons to kill a vampire, but they're better than just plain weapons. heck, maybe summoned weapons are better than just weapons that were enchanted, that might be what makes those with the affinity for summoning weapons more threatening than someone who can take a plain sword and give it +3 against vampires.

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8 hours ago, Scotty said:

I wonder if Susan kept her spell book in her chest with the weapons and fairy dolls, she could summon it as well, and would it let her read it?

That's a great idea!  Given how the summoned copies of weapons and fairydolls are different from the originals, it does make me wonder what migt be different about the summoned copies of her spellbook, though.

5 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

 A capacitor might not be as good as a chemical solution ("lasing a stick of dynamite" if you will) 

Brownie points for the Real Genius reference!  :-D

4 hours ago, Scotty said:

It's possible Susan's mark spell was a low level spell that required physical items placed in a marked container to allow the caster to summon magic version of them, but now that Susan's awakened she might be able to get a higher tier version of the spell that lets her create weapons she doesn't have in a container.

She already has!  When she was awakened, she gained the ability to summon various hammers, no magic chest needed.  I would expect that spell to improve with use, perhaps adding in various tools or making the hammers more durable.

4 hours ago, Scotty said:

Diane might also start of with the low tier version or maybe jump right to the next tier if she happens to awaken without being marked.

Susan's chest has various tools (I think a crowbar was mentioned) as well as weapons and fairydolls.  Diane might wind up summoning something other than weapons.  Imagine if she could summon her makeup and not have to carry a purse, or make a magical copy of the latest fashions without having to buy them, or summon high-tech gadgets like an iPhone or Android tablet.  Weapons don't really reflect who Diane is, but plenty of other things might.  Whether such spells generally start out summoning magical copies of specific items from a magic container at a distance, or whether they might sometimes start out with small, simple objects from scratch or copies of items right in front of them, is as yet unknown.

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4 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

She already has!  When she was awakened, she gained the ability to summon various hammers, no magic chest needed.  I would expect that spell to improve with use, perhaps adding in various tools or making the hammers more durable.

The hammer spell was already a separate spell from the summon spell, she never needed a hammer in a chest to use that one because Jerry's artifact let all women do that. When Susan awakened, Jerry's hammer got transferred as a permanent spell due to Susan's connection with it and aberrations.

Her getting a new spell that lets her summon fairies would be a better example, because it summoning Lil' Nase from the chest so much lead to getting a separate spell that may allow her to summon fairies without having the dolls in a chest (we're not exactly sure if she still needs to keep them in a chest or if she can just create brand new ones at will). But that's more like Susan just earning a completely new spell rather than getting an upgrade to the original summon spell, the again, Susan didn't really summon weapons from the chest that often, mainly because she had the hammers to go to. I'd imagine after her and Diane meet and she starts helping Diane learn about magic she'll use the summon spell as it was originally intended and learn new spells from it.

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14 hours ago, Scotty said:

Turning mundane items into weapons could work as well, pick up a pipe and turn it into a sword, maybe that would be the workaround for the higher level spell to give the caster a weapon without needing a stored physical item, instead of just creating one out of thin air, convert actual matter. a weapon created that way should certainly last longer than one solid hit too.

 

 

Abraham appeared to have something like this, with that object that he transformed into a sword and then an axe. Reshaping something into an object of the same substance but a different shape may also be easier/more resistant to disenchantment than converting something into a different substance (e.g. steel pipe into steel sword vs. wooden pole into steel sword).

As for the laser gun idea, any laser gun that Susan gets her hands on is probably going to be Uryuomtech or some secret DGB device. The Uryuoms are implied to be at least a century or two ahead of us technologically, after all--they've had FTL travel since at least 1947 (Date of the Roswell Incident. We know for sure that they've been on Earth for at least forty years minimum since Noah is a second-generation Uryuom/Human hybrid and William, who was Born in the USA, is at least 36 due to the "I could run for President" comment nearly a year ago in story time.).

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1 hour ago, ijuin said:

Abraham appeared to have something like this, with that object that he transformed into a sword and then an axe. Reshaping something into an object of the same substance but a different shape may also be easier/more resistant to disenchantment than converting something into a different substance (e.g. steel pipe into steel sword vs. wooden pole into steel sword).

I think what Abraham had was a type of spell catalyst that works similar to a wand. He wouldn't have had the spell to create a weapon and shield, but the item would have held the spell for it, so in Abraham's case he wouldn't be able to just take any item and turn it into a sword, however, whoever made that catalyst likely would have the ability to naturally create weapons out of matter or out of magic energy, and be sufficiently skilled enough to enchant an item with that.

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18 hours ago, InfiniteRemnant said:

one involving question about the FBI having wands if i remember right, has implied wands can be manufactured.

"Manufactured" might be too much. It is implied wands can be created, which is nothing new as Tedd is doing that (the watches are technically a wand). I don't think they can be mass-produced or something like that.

14 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Susan's chest has various tools (I think a crowbar was mentioned) as well as weapons and fairydolls.  Diane might wind up summoning something other than weapons.  Imagine if she could summon her makeup and not have to carry a purse, or make a magical copy of the latest fashions without having to buy them, or summon high-tech gadgets like an iPhone or Android tablet.  Weapons don't really reflect who Diane is, but plenty of other things might.  Whether such spells generally start out summoning magical copies of specific items from a magic container at a distance, or whether they might sometimes start out with small, simple objects from scratch or copies of items right in front of them, is as yet unknown.

Diane doesn't need weapons reflecting who she is. Even if she summons a purse, that purse would still count as magical weapon and will be super-effective against vampires.

... I don't think she can get summoning of high-tech gadgets as first spell. That would likely be hard spell. Also, are you sure weapons are not her thing? I would consider this strip to imply she plays some MMORPG (with Lucy) ...

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

When Susan awakened, Jerry's hammer got transferred as a permanent spell due to Susan's connection with it and aberrations.

Jerry said "it's basically the hammers" but I think the spell is actually pretty different, it just looks similarly. So it's not "spell got transfered", it's more like "Susan got new spell reflecting her usage of Jerry's hammers".

4 hours ago, ijuin said:

As for the laser gun idea, any laser gun that Susan gets her hands on is probably going to be Uryuomtech or some secret DGB device.

I don't think anyone will lend her any, but I agree it's more likely than other ways to obtain it. Well, there is also Tedd's tech, but that might count as BOTH depending on how you look at it.

4 hours ago, ijuin said:

The Uryuoms are implied to be at least a century or two ahead of us technologically, after all--they've had FTL travel since at least 1947 (Date of the Roswell Incident.

"please don't become the next Roswell" ... yup, DGB was definitely involved in that. Note that we still don't know any details about HOW they got on Earth, but yes, FTL seems likely.

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13 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

"please don't become the next Roswell" ... yup, DGB was definitely involved in that. Note that we still don't know any details about HOW they got on Earth, but yes, FTL seems likely.

Interstellar travel requires at least one of: FTL, coldsleep (long-term cryogenic hibernation) and near-lightspeed, temporarily stepping into an alternate universe, long-distance teleportation, or generation ships (vessels that can go 50+ years with minimal maintenance and no outside supplies).

Freefall uses FTL but, between still having a huge propellant-to-payload ratio and still having transit times measured in months, also uses coldsleep to avoid the need for suitable accommodations and life support for active passengers. It also uses near-lightspeed ships (plus coldsleep) for transferring large amounts of stuff that's less time-critical; this includes colony ships (the ones that bring more or less an entire colony, hundreds to thousands of people with everything they need to establish a colony).

We don't know how the Uryuom got to earth. It's canonical that either their ships are shaped like flying saucers, or that's what some human thought of when the subject came up. (I don't consider the scenes on/near the moon strictly canonical - something about a knife-fight involving a shark being interrupted by a loud cry from someone on earth...) But even if they are saucer-shaped, that doesn't explain what mechanism they use for interstellar travel.

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22 hours ago, Scotty said:

It's possible Susan's mark spell was a low level spell that required physical items placed in a marked container to allow the caster to summon magic version of them, but now that Susan's awakened she might be able to get a higher tier version of the spell that lets her create weapons she doesn't have in a container.

 

16 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

She already has!  When she was awakened, she gained the ability to summon various hammers, no magic chest needed.  I would expect that spell to improve with use, perhaps adding in various tools or making the hammers more durable.

 

12 hours ago, Scotty said:

The hammer spell was already a separate spell from the summon spell, she never needed a hammer in a chest to use that one because Jerry's artifact let all women do that. When Susan awakened, Jerry's hammer got transferred as a permanent spell due to Susan's connection with it and aberrations.

Yes, but my point was that it's a spell which allows her to summon more than one magical object at once, without needing to have an original object in a chest to make a duplicate of, and she's had it since she Awakened.  

The next level up for the hammer spell might include summoning objects other than hammers, or it might be creating hammers which are good for more than one hitor do more serious damage.  The next level for the summon-copy-of-any-object-in-marked-trunk spell also could expand to include modifying the objects or creating more durable copies (which actually has already happened with the fairydolls, but that's peanut-butter-in-chocolate interaction between spells....).

 

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53 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

Yes, but my point was that it's a spell which allows her to summon more than one magical object at once, without needing to have an original object in a chest to make a duplicate of, and she's had it since she Awakened.  

The next level up for the hammer spell might include summoning objects other than hammers, or it might be creating hammers which are good for more than one hitor do more serious damage.  The next level for the summon-copy-of-any-object-in-marked-trunk spell also could expand to include modifying the objects or creating more durable copies (which actually has already happened with the fairydolls, but that's peanut-butter-in-chocolate interaction between spells....).

I wasn't really arguing the point, I was just stating that the hammer spell was always separate from Susan's summon item spell. I don't doubt that she'll be able to summon other weapons like she can the hammers, but those would be more likely to come from using the summon item spell rather than use of the hammer spell, just like Susan's new fairy spell was an offshoot of the summon item spell, of course I mentioned before that we don't know for sure if she still needed all the fairy dolls Nanase made in the chest to be able to summon them or if she can just make her own now, but the image at the end of Playing with Dolls does imply that she was summoning Nanase's dolls somehow.

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2 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

temporarily stepping into an alternate universe, long-distance teleportation

Those are generally considered FTL, despite the theory of relativity not being violated. Also, note that wormholes can be considered either or both but usually are mentioned specifically. Mainly because it's the only method of FTL travel which doesn't violate ANYTHING in our physic theories.

2 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

It's canonical that either their ships are shaped like flying saucers

While it's likely that their landing vehicles are shaped like flying saucers, it doesn't say anything about shape of "mothership" - the ship which actually did the interstellar travel.

 

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5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I would consider this strip to imply she plays some MMORPG (with Lucy) ...

That's a chat session between avatars. All it implies is that Lucy plays some kind of fantasy game and likes it enough for it to be her avy. (Smart money's on the game being Skyrim considering the dragon and armor, and Dan's general love of Bethesda games) Diane's avatar's not from that game or genre.

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1 hour ago, Matoyak said:

That's a chat session between avatars. All it implies is that Lucy plays some kind of fantasy game and likes it enough for it to be her avy. (Smart money's on the game being Skyrim considering the dragon and armor, and Dan's general love of Bethesda games) Diane's avatar's not from that game or genre.

yeah, all the visuals from that page really tells us about Dianne is that the sisters may have similar tastes in movies.

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7 hours ago, Matoyak said:

That's a chat session between avatars. All it implies is that Lucy plays some kind of fantasy game and likes it enough for it to be her avy. (Smart money's on the game being Skyrim considering the dragon and armor, and Dan's general love of Bethesda games) Diane's avatar's not from that game or genre.

It's also possible that Diane interrupted a chat RP session Lucy was having, like how Susan had once interrupted Nanase's session with Justin.

Dan had said he wanted to give Lucy a Xena-esque look because the character Xena is played by the actress Lucy Lawless. I wouldn't be surprised if Lucy was part of the Xena RPG "nerd girls" group at Salty Crackers. :)

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On 29.4.2016 at 8:19 AM, Don Edwards said:

Have Ellen copy her and then see if Ellen can summon objects from the box - or can mark her own box to summon objects from.

I very much doubt Ellen could do that. I've always believed that her copy spell only copies appearance, not powers. I think her getting the angel spell when she copied Nanase really was just a bone thrown by God or Magic.

On 30.4.2016 at 10:29 AM, CritterKeeper said:

Susan's chest has various tools (I think a crowbar was mentioned) as well as weapons and fairydolls. Diane might wind up summoning something other than weapons. Imagine if she could summon her makeup and not have to carry a purse, or make a magical copy of the latest fashions without having to buy them, or summon high-tech gadgets like an iPhone or Android tablet. Weapons don't really reflect who Diane is, but plenty of other things might.

Heh, I suppose it's possible that Diane could learn to summon all those things, but somehow I don't think they'd be helpful against vampires. The Vampider identified Diane as a hunter, so her affinity is indeed most likely summoning magic weapons. Also, I think affinities are very different from magic marks and other ways of gaining magic. If a person is born with an affinity for a certain type of spell, how could that possibly have anything to do with their yet undeveloped personality or desires? Diane has admitted that she's not a fighter, but her affinity makes her a potential vampire hunter. The way I see it, once she gains access to magic, she will first be able to learn only spells related to her affinity, and after she's awakened, she could learn spells that reflect her personality.

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41 minutes ago, Xenophon Hendrix said:

I think Diane could be given a mark that reflects her personality, strong desires, or her affinity.

...phrased like that you could put anyone's name in that sentence and it would be true.

It's not if it could happen that matters, but if it would happen. the question isn't if it's possible, but if it's likely.

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