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      Welcome!   03/05/2016

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Scotty

STORY: Monday, May 16, 2016

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5 hours ago, sstabeler said:

What I find interesting is that a threat this large may mean that there is an apocolypse of sorts- in terms of revelations Specifically, since Noriko was surprised Tedd was (supposed to be- I somewhat doubt he still is) magically impaired it can be assumed Nanase's mother has magic of her own. A threat this big may cause her to actually use it. That, and I have a feeling that if Sirleck really is "raining hell" down on Moperville, then it may cause Noriko to turn up- either at Edward's request, or pissed off at the threat to Tedd. ( note that she prioritised her career over her family- it never said she stopped caring about them at all)

I think those would be rather small revelations. I mean, big for Tedd and Nanase, but the revelations Pandora talked about (through Dex) were likely something less personal.

1 hour ago, Kazzellin said:

I'm wondering how many people Pandora's stamped at this point. I'm thinking it might be possible for her to have done 1% of the population of Moperville at this point.

There is question how many people are markable, meaning have some talent (those are supposed to be rare) or sufficiently strong desire. I think this is the only thing keeping her from marking EVERYONE.

1 hour ago, Kazzellin said:

Then again, I'm also wondering if it's possible that Tedd can use his insight to see how the spells the vampires wove to make them what they are function, so Raven can just go "disenchant" at the right part. "Oh look, you're back to being a regular magic user. Care to surrender?" ;P

I'm pretty sure that if you disenchant the spell which makes vampire vampire, they won't turn into human. They DIE. And that's exactly what they deserve. Surrendering is overhyped.

1 hour ago, Kazzellin said:

I... honestly don't think I would be suprised to find Pandora is accurately predicting the actions of three other immortals. She probably has a lot of balls in the air that she's juggling.

(Imagined Pandora in her Chaos form, with several dozens of limbs, juggling hundreds of balls, as well as several chairs, chainsaws and various other items, throwing them hundred meters to air.)

 

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7 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Just ask the Pharaoh. What happened to the Egyptian market after the Plagues?

There was a Temporary Market Correction.  But very soon Egypt was once again the most powerful economic force between the Red Sea and the Lybian Desert

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4 hours ago, hkmaly said:
5 hours ago, Kazzellin said:

I... honestly don't think I would be suprised to find Pandora is accurately predicting the actions of three other immortals. She probably has a lot of balls in the air that she's juggling.

(Imagined Pandora in her Chaos form, with several dozens of limbs, juggling hundreds of balls, as well as several chairs, chainsaws and various other items, throwing them hundred meters to air.)

also a demetrius voodoo doll.

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14 hours ago, Kazzellin said:

Then again, I'm also wondering if it's possible that Tedd can use his insight to see how the spells the vampires wove to make them what they are function, so Raven can just go "disenchant" at the right part. "Oh look, you're back to being a regular magic user. Care to surrender?" ;P

I doubt t would work that way. I'm not saying that Tedd can't use his insight on the magic that makes the vampires vampires nor that Raven can't unravel that magic if given the 'weak point.' Becoming a vampire in EGS fundamentally changes a person. From what I recall, it's been said they can't go back to being a normal human, voluntarily or otherwise. So if Tedd and Raven working together were able to 'disenchant' a vampire's vampire-ness, said vampire would probably just die if not simply cease to exist.

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Maybe it seems so obvious no one is mentioning it, but Sirleck actually wants to save Ellen and Elliot because they are both needed to get Mage's body back. It's pretty obvious why Sirleck wants to do this "favor." And soon; the old man he's using as a mount is already brain-dead and it's probably harder and harder to keep the rest of the mount alive. Otherwise why not enjoy the old man's wealth until it runs out?

There's also a plot-hole kind of a mile wide here: What's so hard about keeping the money? All Sirleck has to do is marry a young bimbo, make her the old man's heir, and take over her body. As soon as he makes the jump, the old guy dies and it should look like natural causes to anyone not in on The Secret. Say, does this remind you of a real-world bimbo who married an extremely old man who kicked off not that many years ago?

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2 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

 

There's also a plot-hole kind of a mile wide here: What's so hard about keeping the money? All Sirleck has to do is marry a young bimbo, make her the old man's heir, and take over her body. As soon as he makes the jump, the old guy dies and it should look like natural causes to anyone not in on The Secret. Say, does this remind you of a real-world bimbo who married an extremely old man who kicked off not that many years ago?

I would imagine that he doesn't want to deal with Gold Digger speculations.

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6 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

There's also a plot-hole kind of a mile wide here: What's so hard about keeping the money? All Sirleck has to do is marry a young bimbo, make her the old man's heir, and take over her body. As soon as he makes the jump, the old guy dies and it should look like natural causes to anyone not in on The Secret. Say, does this remind you of a real-world bimbo who married an extremely old man who kicked off not that many years ago?

For one thing, one imagines that if Sirleck took over the body of just anyone, they'd have family and friends who would notice when their personality very suddenly changed. Especially if their wealth brings them into the public eye where such a change would be noticed by everyone. One imagines that "Rich dowager starts acting like her late husband after he dies" is something Immortals keep an eye out for.

The fact that he can normally "take breaks from" his host also gives rise to the question of whether or not the host their own will restored when he does so. Which could be problematic for him if they have friends and family they can contact.

Which is the whole reason he went for Magus. The guy is a complete unknown which helps him go unnoticed big time. And in the end, staying safe and alive is far more important than money.

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Anonymous wealth transfer

1.  Convert as much wealth as possible into cash, bearer bonds, precious metal bullion, or similar.

2.  Leave the stash, or the key to the stash, with an attorney who will stay bought.  (If Sirleck can't determine at least that much of a person's character, he is far weaker or more foolish than we thought.)

3.  After acquiring new body, show up at attorney's office with proper encoded instructions.

4.  Take your time cashing in the bonds and gold.  Do not draw attention to yourself.

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Maybe it seems so obvious no one is mentioning it, but Sirleck actually wants to save Ellen and Elliot because they are both needed to get Mage's body back. It's pretty obvious why Sirleck wants to do this "favor." And soon; the old man he's using as a mount is already brain-dead and it's probably harder and harder to keep the rest of the mount alive. Otherwise why not enjoy the old man's wealth until it runs out?

There's also a plot-hole kind of a mile wide here: What's so hard about keeping the money? All Sirleck has to do is marry a young bimbo, make her the old man's heir, and take over her body. As soon as he makes the jump, the old guy dies and it should look like natural causes to anyone not in on The Secret. Say, does this remind you of a real-world bimbo who married an extremely old man who kicked off not that many years ago?

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16 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Maybe it seems so obvious no one is mentioning it, but Sirleck actually wants to save Ellen and Elliot because they are both needed to get Mage's body back. It's pretty obvious why Sirleck wants to do this "favor." And soon; the old man he's using as a mount is already brain-dead and it's probably harder and harder to keep the rest of the mount alive. Otherwise why not enjoy the old man's wealth until it runs out?

There's also a plot-hole kind of a mile wide here: What's so hard about keeping the money? All Sirleck has to do is marry a young bimbo, make her the old man's heir, and take over her body. As soon as he makes the jump, the old guy dies and it should look like natural causes to anyone not in on The Secret. Say, does this remind you of a real-world bimbo who married an extremely old man who kicked off not that many years ago?

2 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Maybe it seems so obvious no one is mentioning it, but Sirleck actually wants to save Ellen and Elliot because they are both needed to get Mage's body back. It's pretty obvious why Sirleck wants to do this "favor." And soon; the old man he's using as a mount is already brain-dead and it's probably harder and harder to keep the rest of the mount alive. Otherwise why not enjoy the old man's wealth until it runs out?

There's also a plot-hole kind of a mile wide here: What's so hard about keeping the money? All Sirleck has to do is marry a young bimbo, make her the old man's heir, and take over her body. As soon as he makes the jump, the old guy dies and it should look like natural causes to anyone not in on The Secret. Say, does this remind you of a real-world bimbo who married an extremely old man who kicked off not that many years ago?

Uhm. How did you manage to do a double post 14 hrs apart?

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3 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Anonymous wealth transfer

1.  Convert as much wealth as possible into cash, bearer bonds, precious metal bullion, or similar.

2.  Leave the stash, or the key to the stash, with an attorney who will stay bought.  (If Sirleck can't determine at least that much of a person's character, he is far weaker or more foolish than we thought.)

3.  After acquiring new body, show up at attorney's office with proper encoded instructions.

4.  Take your time cashing in the bonds and gold.  Do not draw attention to yourself.

Bitcoin means never having to be concerned that a crooked lawyer might also embezzle.

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On 5/18/2016 at 8:29 AM, Drasvin said:
On 5/18/2016 at 6:13 PM, Kazzellin said:

Then again, I'm also wondering if it's possible that Tedd can use his insight to see how the spells the vampires wove to make them what they are function, so Raven can just go "disenchant" at the right part. "Oh look, you're back to being a regular magic user. Care to surrender?" ;P

I doubt t would work that way. I'm not saying that Tedd can't use his insight on the magic that makes the vampires vampires nor that Raven can't unravel that magic if given the 'weak point.' Becoming a vampire in EGS fundamentally changes a person. From what I recall, it's been said they can't go back to being a normal human, voluntarily or otherwise. So if Tedd and Raven working together were able to 'disenchant' a vampire's vampire-ness, said vampire would probably just die if not simply cease to exist.

There's also the problem of needing to see the spell in action, Ie; watching someone get turned.

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13 hours ago, The Phoenixian said:

For one thing, one imagines that if Sirleck took over the body of just anyone, they'd have family and friends who would notice when their personality very suddenly changed. Especially if their wealth brings them into the public eye where such a change would be noticed by everyone. One imagines that "Rich dowager starts acting like her late husband after he dies" is something Immortals keep an eye out for.

There may also be technical reasons why he can't possess just anyone. Not to speak about fact he may not want to possess a woman because he has that strong gender identity.

7 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Anonymous wealth transfer

1.  Convert as much wealth as possible into cash, bearer bonds, precious metal bullion, or similar.

2.  Leave the stash, or the key to the stash, with an attorney who will stay bought.  (If Sirleck can't determine at least that much of a person's character, he is far weaker or more foolish than we thought.)

3.  After acquiring new body, show up at attorney's office with proper encoded instructions.

4.  Take your time cashing in the bonds and gold.  Do not draw attention to yourself.

I think this is basically the plan he is implementing, it's just that "converting as much wealth as possible" takes time. He might also be using multiple attorneys to reduce risk or stuff like that.

4 hours ago, Matoyak said:

Uhm. How did you manage to do a double post 14 hrs apart?

My guess is that he turned off the browser, then turn it back on 14 hours later and browser resend the post.

4 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Bitcoin means never having to be concerned that a crooked lawyer might also embezzle.

While storing HDD with encrypted bitcoins at lawyer has some advantages, the alternative way of locking the cash somewhere and store the key with an attorney without saying them WHERE the stuff is locked was already possible hundreds of years ago. (Before that, you generally didn't bothered with key and just bury it somewhere, but that's harder today.)

2 hours ago, InfiniteRemnant said:

There's also the problem of needing to see the spell in action, Ie; watching someone get turned.

The spell is presumably "in action" all the time, to keep the vampire alive.

 

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16 minutes ago, hkmaly said:
2 hours ago, InfiniteRemnant said:

There's also the problem of needing to see the spell in action, Ie; watching someone get turned.

The spell is presumably "in action" all the time, to keep the vampire alive.

not necessarily. the spell could impart new anatomy and biological functions, magical or otherwise, which act as the sustaining factor themselves. in which case observing someone already turned would only supply potentially useless anatomical trivia, not the nature of the transformation.

the idea the spell needs to persist is based on the assumption that it is an enchantment, rather than a reconfiguration of base form.

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I would expect the transformations to be thematic. 

We already know Magic can sculpt a magician's body (Justin's muscle, Susan's height, Nanase's bust)  I'd expect a Vampire/Aberrent's physical appearance would be molded to match who they are and what sort of Vampire they are becoming.

If true, what does this say about Sirleck?

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3 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

I would expect the transformations to be thematic. 

We already know Magic can sculpt a magician's body (Justin's muscle, Susan's height, Nanase's bust)  I'd expect a Vampire/Aberrent's physical appearance would be molded to match who they are and what sort of Vampire they are becoming.

If true, what does this say about Sirleck?

It'd also be very much like Tedd's mark spell, it's not an enchantment when used on himself, it permanently changes his default form for however long he wants rather than for a set duration that can be resisted away sooner.

The vampires would likely have changed their default forms, but it's also likely the process is irreversible, hence why Immortals go out of their way to get people to destroy them.

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2 hours ago, InfiniteRemnant said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:
4 hours ago, InfiniteRemnant said:

There's also the problem of needing to see the spell in action, Ie; watching someone get turned.

The spell is presumably "in action" all the time, to keep the vampire alive.

not necessarily. the spell could impart new anatomy and biological functions, magical or otherwise, which act as the sustaining factor themselves. in which case observing someone already turned would only supply potentially useless anatomical trivia, not the nature of the transformation.

If it would be only new anatomical and biological functions, it would be "stable" and wouldn't require - oh. Wait. Of course. The spell is "in action" when the vampire feeds on humans to lengthen his/her/whatever lifespan.

While most of the transformation is really new anatomy and biological function, it's obvious that there is nontrivial magical part. This magical part, despite not being enchantment, can be analyzed, at least when active. And can be dispelled, which may either kill the vampire immediately or make him unable to feed, which will kill him later. Unless it's something which the vampire cast every time he's feeding, in which case you interrupt just that one feeding and he may be able to cast it again later.

(Obviously, I can't prove that, but it makes sense, doesn't it?)

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It is early days to call it a plothole when we do not know what Sirleck's plan involves. For one thing, it may be expensive to implement. If it costs most of his current load to get moving, that cash is lost regardless of other factors.

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18 hours ago, Scotty said:

It'd also be very much like Tedd's mark spell, it's not an enchantment when used on himself, it permanently changes his default form for however long he wants rather than for a set duration that can be resisted away sooner.

The vampires would likely have changed their default forms, but it's also likely the process is irreversible, hence why Immortals go out of their way to get people to destroy them.

Agreed.  I'd add that the changes a Vampire/Aberrent goes through may not be chosen or voluntary. 

If a Mage gets spells that reflect who they are and magic sometimes alters a magician's default form (as we've seen with Nanase, Justin, Susan), to make them more like who they really are, a Vampire might not get a choice in how they prey on other people or what they look like. They'll get what fits them. 

Example:  In my mind, Spider-Mage didn't necessarily choose to have 4 extra arms and eat people (presumably) as a spider would.  He chose to be a Vampire and Magic made him more spider-y because that reflected who he was.

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28 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Example:  In my mind, Spider-Mage didn't necessarily choose to have 4 extra arms and eat people (presumably) as a spider would.  He chose to be a Vampire and Magic made him more spider-y because that reflected who he was.

Same with Sirleck, as a human he was probably really greedy, maybe got caught embezzling money, likely yearned for a way to do it again while remaining undetectable and when he learned of magic he probably tried to use it to give him that ability. He might have originally wanted to control someone remotely like power of suggestion stuff but magic decided to go a few steps further and make it so he could take full control of a person through possession.

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3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:
22 hours ago, Scotty said:

The vampires would likely have changed their default forms, but it's also likely the process is irreversible, hence why Immortals go out of their way to get people to destroy them.

Agreed.  I'd add that the changes a Vampire/Aberrent goes through may not be chosen or voluntary. 

If a Mage gets spells that reflect who they are and magic sometimes alters a magician's default form (as we've seen with Nanase, Justin, Susan), to make them more like who they really are, a Vampire might not get a choice in how they prey on other people or what they look like. They'll get what fits them. 

I think they ARE choosing how they prey, but likely not the physical changes coming with it. Like ... this is how the vampire who attacked Susan wanted to look. This is what drinking blood made him look.

The physical change may also not be immediate. I would assume that there is one distinct point where person became aberration, but that point may not be only time their default form changes. It makes sense they don't even realize immediately they no longer look human.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

Same with Sirleck, as a human he was probably really greedy, maybe got caught embezzling money, likely yearned for a way to do it again while remaining undetectable and when he learned of magic he probably tried to use it to give him that ability. He might have originally wanted to control someone remotely like power of suggestion stuff but magic decided to go a few steps further and make it so he could take full control of a person through possession.

The remote control doesn't match the basic fact that he is EXTENDING HIS LIFE with the host. Remember that this bit is one of key characteristics of aberrations. Although it's possible he already had spell like the remote control before he decided to make the next step of escape his death using the already controlled person ...

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34 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

The remote control doesn't match the basic fact that he is EXTENDING HIS LIFE with the host. Remember that this bit is one of key characteristics of aberrations. Although it's possible he already had spell like the remote control before he decided to make the next step of escape his death using the already controlled person ...

Well he likely wanted to live forever as well, but he might have thought it be some other way. It'd be like magic saying "You want to be wealthy and live forever? Well, you can do it as an ugly bodysnatching freak." Basically you can't have something without some sort of consequence. Aberrations are people that wanted something but didn't want to work hard for it so magic, while giving them the means to go the easy route, had to do something to make it not so easy, like strip them of their humanity and make it so they had to feed a certain way to maintain their existence, makes it so that they can be eventually hunted down and destroyed. Maybe some people were aware of this before hand and accepted it thinking they can keep under the radar, maybe some expected something else. I'm just guessing at where Sirleck might come from.

43 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

I'm not sure it's appropriate to extrapolate "greed" as a central feature of Sirleck's personality...

It's certainly part of it, he begrudgingly agreed to use his wealth to help Magus and also refused Magus' offer to make straw into gold because it would devalue gold. He's also possibly worse than Rich when it comes to the treatment of women.

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4 minutes ago, Scotty said:

It's certainly part of it, he begrudgingly agreed to use his wealth to help Magus and also refused Magus' offer to make straw into gold because it would devalue gold. He's also possibly worse than Rich when it comes to the treatment of women.

Sirleck at least has the minor excuse that he comes from a culture where women were less respected and he is paying his secretary to dance to Caribbean music at lunch.  Probably a lot if she's not bringing a sexual harassment lawsuit. 

By comparison, Rich just doesn't know any better and has closed his mind to the possibility of any "better" to know.

Being undying and being poor sucks.  That could be Sirleck's entire motivation when it comes to money.  We don't know the living conditions of the Paris Vampire, but Spider-Mage wasn't exactly in the lap of luxury.  Sirleck could be greedy too, but Dan hasn't given us enough evidence for use to conclude that greed is a central motivation to the character.

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17 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Basically you can't have something without some sort of consequence.

Yes you can. Live is not fair. If you are lucky - for example, you attract attention of correct immortal - you can get into much better situation than otherwise. Based on current evidence I wouldn't rule out the possibility of some really human-looking aberrations, and there certainly isn't any rule that all aberrations need to look as bad as Sirleck - as proven by both vampires, actually.

The REAL negatives of being aberration is the parasitic existence (and they are ok with this), complete lack of empathy (they likely didn't have much to start with), weakness against magical weapons and being favourite target of everyone and their dog - I mean, immortals and the people they marked. The monster form ... I think that the sort of people who became aberrations don't really take looking as monsters as being negative.

That of course doesn't invalidate the possibility that some of them really look that bad as a sort of payback. Or, maybe they look like monster because when they were still human, they knew what sort of monster they will became, and subconsciously wanted it to show on their look.

14 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Being undying and being poor sucks.  That could be Sirleck's entire motivation when it comes to money.  We don't know the living conditions of the Paris Vampire, but Spider-Mage wasn't exactly in the lap of luxury.  Sirleck could be greedy too, but Dan hasn't given us enough evidence for use to conclude that greed is a central motivation to the character.

Agree. Sirleck might became this greedy AFTER he became aberration.

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