q&a7 STORY: Wednesday, May 25, 2016

[Scrapyard_Dragon 5]

Welp, This pretty much confirms my speculation, Tedd's a bloody witch hunter.

[WR...S 41]

So I guess this is semi-confirmation that Noriko is indeed a wizard... and that the proper term for a female wizard is "wizard."

[Scotty 1,061]

18 minutes ago, WR...S said:

So I guess this is semi-confirmation that Noriko is indeed a wizard... and that the proper term for a female wizard is "wizard."

Unless Nanase's family is a mix of wizards and mages (unless there's another term for awakened that naturally gain their own spells), I'd wonder why Dan would have chosen that as an example. It's probably safe to assume Edward is a wizard, but it seems strange to think of Noriko as one as well given her "Legendary Monster Hunter" status.

I guess it really depends on how easily a wizard can learn a spell, do they just need to see it in action once, or do they need to study it being used multiple times. If all it takes is one look then wizards could easily become the most powerful magic users pretty quickly, but if they need to see it several times then I can see only the most dedicated becoming powerful because they took the time to watch someone or something, and if that person/thing is an enemy then it'd be more difficult.

[Drasvin 123]

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

I guess it really depends on how easily a wizard can learn a spell, do they just need to see it in action once, or do they need to study it being used multiple times. If all it takes is one look then wizards could easily become the most powerful magic users pretty quickly, but if they need to see it several times then I can see only the most dedicated becoming powerful because they took the time to watch someone or something, and if that person/thing is an enemy then it'd be more difficult.

Given the old symbolism and stereotypes associated with wizards, my guess it they learn spells by reading other people's spellbooks. Granted, such ideas might be from before one of the system changes mentioned in Squirrel Prophet, but the concept is simple, iconic, and would help moderate the power levels of wizards (or at least the power versatility). It could also create some interesting drama, with a wizard hunting down spellbooks with rare and powerful spells, maybe even getting into awesome magical duels to obtain said spellbooks.

[Scotty 1,061]

2 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

Given the old symbolism and stereotypes associated with wizards, my guess it they learn spells by reading other people's spellbooks. Granted, such ideas might be from before one of the system changes mentioned in Squirrel Prophet, but the concept is simple, iconic, and would help moderate the power levels of wizards (or at least the power versatility). It could also create some interesting drama, with a wizard hunting down spellbooks with rare and powerful spells, maybe even getting into awesome magical duels to obtain said spellbooks.

Yeah, that's certainly possible too, and I guess considering Mama Kitsune's pressure on Nanase to keep studying might be an indication that it was how their family learned magic. Nanase could be bucking the trend by being awakened differently from the rest of her family through an immortal so she's getting her own spells just by using magic.

[Drasvin 123]

1 minute ago, Scotty said:

Yeah, that's certainly possible too, and I guess considering Mama Kitsune's pressure on Nanase to keep studying might be an indication that it was how their family learned magic. Nanase could be bucking the trend by being awakened differently from the rest of her family through an immortal so she's getting her own spells just by using magic.

Makes sense, though I'll note that the method of awakening doesn't determine whether or not a person is a wizard. A person has to be born with that quality, kinda like a genetic trait. So Nanase might simply not have the wizard 'gene' or some such, despite such being common in her family's heritage. She is still a very powerful magic user, though.

[Scotty 1,061]

10 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

Makes sense, though I'll note that the method of awakening doesn't determine whether or not a person is a wizard. A person has to be born with that quality, kinda like a genetic trait. So Nanase might simply not have the wizard 'gene' or some such, despite such being common in her family's heritage. She is still a very powerful magic user, though.

That really depends, if she wasn't awakened by an Immortal, she might have awakened naturally and unlocked the wizard trait. I guess another question would be, could the magic analysis wand be able to tell whether a person with magic potential could be a wizard or not? I mean yeah Edward said that someone is born with the distinction of being a wizard, but we know from Susan, Diane and Sarah, that people are born with innate talents for magic, does that mean that Susan could have been a wizard if an immortal hadn't marked her or she didn't have her angst-induced awakening. Maybe those with the wizard gene could still awaken as not wizards if the conditions are right?

Back on the subject of Tedd, he was expected to be a powerful wizard, which could come from the idea of 2 wizards having a child, but considering Tedd's abilities and the fact that he obviously didn't turn out to be a wizard in the sense that is known to many, I'm wondering if there was something else that either Edward or Noriko had that was passed along to Tedd that became dominant in him. I said "either Edward or Noriko" because I wouldn't be 100% sure which one would have it, maybe it's because both had the right genetics to form this "dangerous rarity", I at least suspect that Noriko's family lineage is part of the reason, we just don't know much if anything about Edward's side of the family.

[Stature 96]

14 hours ago, Scrapyard_Dragon said:

Welp, This pretty much confirms my speculation, Tedd's a bloody witch hunter.

Can be. But since he has longstanding streak as an explorer, he might as well be a cut creator.

Other words, Tedd stays as a "mad" scientist.

[Drasvin 123]

15 minutes ago, Scotty said:

That really depends, if she wasn't awakened by an Immortal, she might have awakened naturally and unlocked the wizard trait. I guess another question would be, could the magic analysis wand be able to tell whether a person with magic potential could be a wizard or not? I mean yeah Edward said that someone is born with the distinction of being a wizard, but we know from Susan, Diane and Sarah, that people are born with innate talents for magic, does that mean that Susan could have been a wizard if an immortal hadn't marked her or she didn't have her angst-induced awakening. Maybe those with the wizard gene could still awaken as not wizards if the conditions are right?

I think the analysis wand would be able to detect the wizardry trait, at least it can be used in some related manner, and Mr Verres was certain that Elliot and Ellen weren't wizards. Though unless Mr. Verres (or the Q&A team) tells us, it's impossible to know for certain. Also I don't think innate talents are linked to wizardry. Innate talents are traits, typically passed down through bloodlines, that shape the kinds of spells a person will gain through normal spell accumulation (which it's been implied that wizards still get normal spell accumulation. They just can learn other people's spells in addition to what they normally get), whereas wizardry is a trait, seemingly sometimes passed down through bloodlines in some cases, that allows for new avenues of spell accumulation. I just don't think the method or conditions of the awakening affect one's chance at being a wizard. Admittedly we haven't gotten much information about wizards, it doesn't seem to gel with what little we do know, namely that it's a trait that people are born with and either are or aren't.

I just got a semi-random thought in my head. Do we know for certain that Nanase isn't a wizard? If wizardly spell accumulation is via reading the spellbook of another, have we seen Nanase read a spellbook other than her own? Maybe that is the 'blood of queens' that the griffins were picking up on? It would make sense if wizards made the backbone of royal families in a magically-active, monarchical society. Before royal inheritance was codified, the crown went to whoever had enough power to take it. In real life, power was determined by armies, but in a more magically inclined world, powerful magic users might be able to sway such a determination and while a wizard is not necessarily more powerful than a non-wizard mage, a wizard will have access to greater versatility and variety, allowing for more focused and detailed solutions to problems that a typical mage might not have a good spell for.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Back on the subject of Tedd, he was expected to be a powerful wizard, which could come from the idea of 2 wizards having a child, but considering Tedd's abilities and the fact that he obviously didn't turn out to be a wizard in the sense that is known to many, I'm wondering if there was something else that either Edward or Noriko had that was passed along to Tedd that became dominant in him. I said "either Edward or Noriko" because I wouldn't be 100% sure which one would have it, maybe it's because both had the right genetics to form this "dangerous rarity", I at least suspect that Noriko's family lineage is part of the reason, we just don't know much if anything about Edward's side of the family.

Well if wizardry and such are genetic, or quasi-genetic, then his 'dangerous rarity'-ness certainly came from both of his parents, since given just how rare it is it would have to be a recessive trait (or Magic is being weird and strange again, but that line of thinking isn't conducive to good logic or theory-crafting) and one that isn't present in a lot of the gene pool or is somehow suppressed by other genes or factors.

[podian 40]

2 hours ago, Stature said:

Other words, Tedd stays as a "mad" scientist.

For some reason, now I want Tedd to be a Spark.

[Vorlonagent 442]

Actually Ellen's FV5 beam is NOT an enchantment in the Earth-magic sense...

[Cpt. Obvious 73]

18 hours ago, Ser Pentrose said:

Testing it with a fireball: Bad idea.

Testing it with one of Ellen's transformation beams? That could work, if the resistance fails there's no harm done. Of course it wouldn't be a perfect test as many fireballs are large enough that they hit an area rather than just single target.

Thinking about this I suddenly remembered Tedd's gauntlet. As I remember it that was slowly gathering magic energy which he could somehow use for... things not really specified. Now I'm wondering just how that works, and what forms of magic energy it can absorb. There is probably a lot of restrictions but *if* it could safely absorb the energy of say a fireball then Tedd would probably fall off any scale used to measure the danger me might pose...
 

[Scotty 1,061]

1 hour ago, Vorlonagent said:

Actually Ellen's FV5 beam is NOT an enchantment in the Earth-magic sense...

I always got that as the beam is an enchantment, but it doesn't affect Uryuoms and Uryuom hybrids as enchantments. The beam used one normal humans would be an enchantment.

Not_Tengu himself asked Ellen if she was trying to enchant him when she zapped him, he was able to resist it though.

[Vorlonagent 442]

8 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I always got that as the beam is an enchantment, but it doesn't affect Uryuoms and Uryuom hybrids as enchantments. The beam used one normal humans would be an enchantment.

Not_Tengu himself asked Ellen if she was trying to enchant him when she zapped him, he was able to resist it though.

Not-Tengue may not be familiar with the shades of difference between Uryouom magic and earth-magic...

[Drasvin 123]

2 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Actually Ellen's FV5 beam is NOT an enchantment in the Earth-magic sense...

It is an enchantment, the page you linked even calls it an enchantment. It's just a Uryuom enchantment, which interacts differently with Uryuoms and greater chimeras than creatures not of uryuom decent. To non-uryuoms, it still applies an enchantment.

[ijuin 572]

He said that it "felt" like she was trying to enchant him, so apparently to those who have the ability to sense Earth magic, the sensation is similar.

I think that Ellen's beams are "not an enchantment" in the sense that there's no latent pool of invested energy maintaining it the way that "regular" enchantments do. In other words, her beam transformations should have indefinite duration unless resisted by the target, as opposed to wearing off when their energy runs out. By way of example, Vlad(ia) has remained transformed for ten months so far, though of course "she" wants the transformation to remain rather than wearing off.

[Scotty 1,061]

3 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

It is an enchantment, the page you linked even calls it an enchantment. It's just a Uryuom enchantment, which interacts differently with Uryuoms and greater chimeras than creatures not of uryuom decent. To non-uryuoms, it still applies an enchantment.

Yeah, the page never specifically stated the beam wasn't an enchantment, it just said that Uryuoms and Uryuom hybrids aren't enchanted by it. Humans would still be enchanted if hit by Ellen's beam.

[Drasvin 123]

3 minutes ago, ijuin said:

He said that it "felt" like she was trying to enchant him, so apparently to those who have the ability to sense Earth magic, the sensation is similar.

I think that Ellen's beams are "not an enchantment" in the sense that there's no latent pool of invested energy maintaining it the way that "regular" enchantments do. In other words, her beam transformations should have indefinite duration unless resisted by the target, as opposed to wearing off when their energy runs out. By way of example, Vlad(ia) has remained transformed for ten months so far, though of course "she" wants the transformation to remain rather than wearing off.

Ellen's beams mimic the delivery method of her 'curse'. In this case, the TF Gun and it's V5 setting. So her beam would probably only last a month or so. The reason Vladia is still transformed, is because she is a greater chimera. Greater chimeras are of uryoum descent (which is what separates greater and lesser chimera) so she wasn't enchanted by Ellen's uryuom-mimicking V5 beam and instead gained a new form to transform into(Not that she's likely to use her transformation ability due to almost dying the first time he tried to).

[Vorlonagent 442]

2 hours ago, Drasvin said:

It is an enchantment, the page you linked even calls it an enchantment. It's just a Uryuom enchantment, which interacts differently with Uryuoms and greater chimeras than creatures not of uryuom decent. To non-uryuoms, it still applies an enchantment.

I'd say there's a yes and a no to that. 

Uryouom "enchantments" do not stack. Earth-stuff can.

[hkmaly 490]

11 hours ago, Drasvin said:

Given the old symbolism and stereotypes associated with wizards, my guess it they learn spells by reading other people's spellbooks.

Wizards just have to see a spell enough times to learn it. No spellbooks.

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

I mean yeah Edward said that someone is born with the distinction of being a wizard, but we know from Susan, Diane and Sarah, that people are born with innate talents for magic, does that mean that Susan could have been a wizard if an immortal hadn't marked her or she didn't have her angst-induced awakening. Maybe those with the wizard gene could still awaken as not wizards if the conditions are right?

Unlikely. Being wizard is just another kind of magical talent which doesn't interfere with getting own spells. Wizard awakened by marking would still be wizard, just like Susan would get summoning-type spells even if her original mark will be something different.

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

I said "either Edward or Noriko" because I wouldn't be 100% sure which one would have it, maybe it's because both had the right genetics to form this "dangerous rarity",

I like the idea that two genetic traits needs to combine to form the dangerous rarity. Explains why it's so rare.

8 hours ago, Drasvin said:

 since given just how rare it is it would have to be a recessive trait

... or only appear if MULTIPLE genes are combined in right way. Or both - that is, it's combination of multiple recessive genes.

8 hours ago, Drasvin said:

Do we know for certain that Nanase isn't a wizard?

No. Unlike Tedd, she is not so often around other people using spells, so she MIGHT still be one and just not noticed. On the other hand, I find hard to believe Edward didn't tested her.

6 hours ago, Cpt. Obvious said:

Thinking about this I suddenly remembered Tedd's gauntlet. As I remember it that was slowly gathering magic energy which he could somehow use for... things not really specified. Now I'm wondering just how that works, and what forms of magic energy it can absorb. There is probably a lot of restrictions but *if* it could safely absorb the energy of say a fireball then Tedd would probably fall off any scale used to measure the danger me might pose...

I think it's "gathering magic" is more like charging of wands and it's not able to absorb spells. Remember that Tedd never TRIED to use it to absorb spell.

3 hours ago, Drasvin said:

Ellen's beams mimic the delivery method of her 'curse'. In this case, the TF Gun and it's V5 setting. So her beam would probably only last a month or so. The reason Vladia is still transformed, is because she is a greater chimera. Greater chimeras are of uryoum descent (which is what separates greater and lesser chimera) so she wasn't enchanted by Ellen's uryuom-mimicking V5 beam and instead gained a new form to transform into(Not that she's likely to use her transformation ability due to almost dying the first time he tried to).

Also, Ellen sort of "overloaded" the beam, so it's still question if it didn't have some special effect. I mean, besides the obvious sideefect of hiding antennae, which shouldn't happen. But yes, even normal V5 beam would keep Vladia transformed unless she TRIES to change form.

1 hour ago, Vorlonagent said:

Uryouom "enchantments" do not stack. Earth-stuff can.

To be more specific: Uryuom enchantments NEVER stack. Earth-stuff MAY stack - it varies.

4 hours ago, ijuin said:

In other words, her beam transformations should have indefinite duration unless resisted by the target, as opposed to wearing off when their energy runs out.

There is NO "wearing off after energy runs out". It's all about resistance. As Tedd proved by staying as grace 15x longer than the expected time, person can keep transformation they're ok with very long - likely by supplying their own energy to prolong the transformation. The default duration is based on average person resistance.

 

[Scotty 1,061]

5 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

There is NO "wearing off after energy runs out". It's all about resistance. As Tedd proved by staying as grace 15x longer than the expected time, person can keep transformation they're ok with very long - likely by supplying their own energy to prolong the transformation. The default duration is based on average person resistance.

I wouldn't say there's absolutely "no wearing off after energy runs out". Adrian had stated that animals can't resist enchantments like humans can so they essentially starve themselves to the point where the enchant can no longer be maintained by their energy.

[hkmaly 490]

10 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I wouldn't say there's absolutely "no wearing off after energy runs out". Adrian had stated that animals can't resist enchantments like humans can so they essentially starve themselves to the point where the enchant can no longer be maintained by their energy.

Ok. But it's not major factor for HUMANS. (Although, technically ... when Adrian said "we", he might've been talking about uryuom and elves )

While we DO have an example of using Ellen's beam on non-human (and even non-mammal) liveform, we don't have an example of it wearing off.

[Matoyak 51]

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Wizards just have to see a spell enough times to learn it. No spellbooks.

"Well, it may not be that simple..." - Tedd

We don't completely know what it entails, except that it isn't likely as simple as seeing a spell enough times.

[ijuin 572]

6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Wizards just have to see a spell enough times to learn it. No spellbooks.

Unlikely. Being wizard is just another kind of magical talent which doesn't interfere with getting own spells. Wizard awakened by marking would still be wizard, just like Susan would get summoning-type spells even if her original mark will be something different.

Hmmm, there may be a possibility that a person with Wizard potential can be Awakened as a Mage without their Wizard potential being immediately available for use (i.e. a second "Awakening" would be needed).

[Scotty 1,061]

3 hours ago, ijuin said:

Hmmm, there may be a possibility that a person with Wizard potential can be Awakened as a Mage without their Wizard potential being immediately available for use (i.e. a second "Awakening" would be needed).

I wonder if hybrids like that are possible as well, maybe they wouldn't be as powerful as they would if they were just one or the other, but they could still both gain spells tailored to their personality and learn some from others. They might never get high ranking spells like a guardian form or maybe their rate of learning is slower, but they could be potentially more versatile.