Story Thursday June 9, 2016

[Stature 96]

http://www.egscomics.com/index.php?id=2199

[partner555 170]

I suppose it'll get less vague when Lord Tedd comes back.

[InfiniteRemnant 141]

I didn't realise "intentionally vague" was an accepted unit of measurement...

[Sweveham 65]

Well, I'm happy that Dan spared us the gore. And the animals are certainly cute.

[ijuin 572]

Given what we've seen so far, Grace's healing is probably not so rapid that she could recover from a significant battle injury within moments (unlike say, Damien), but she will likely recover fast enough for people not-in-the-know to think it oddly fast (e.g. recover from a broken bone in days rather than a month or two).

[Scotty 1,061]

I guess this answers the question we had about the TFG being used to remove cancer and stuff. It'll hide it, but when the transformation wears off, it'll come back.

Someone did ask a good followup question on Twitter though. Would the same apply to Elliot if he got injured in normal form, would morphing into Cheerleadra speed up the healing. Grace has the advantage that her faster healing is due to genetics so it doesn't matter what form she takes. She could get a papercut working at the comic shop and have it healed by the end of her shift. Elliot gets a nasty scrape, would that scrape persist when he morphs into Cheerleadra? Would the faster healing only apply to injuries sustained while in the superhero form? I'm also guessing that if the injury was severe enough it might interfere with Elliot's morphing ability, or else if he ever got into a car accident he could just morph into Cheerleadra and fly to the emergency room.

[Maplestrip 20]

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

I guess this answers the question we had about the TFG being used to remove cancer and stuff. It'll hide it, but when the transformation wears off, it'll come back.

Today's answer doesn't confirm that magic can't be used to heal such illnesses, though. It only makes clear that transformation magic can't be used for it. With Ted in the team, it seems like a matter of time before he investigates a person with healing-specific magic and applies it in Uryom-style technology.

I mean, realistically. And, knowing this webcomic, "a matter of time" refers to many decades from our perspective

[Aura Guardian 57]

Before I saw the creatures in the later panels, I thought it was all-bunnies as a reference to us.

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

The TF Gun, as it is currently configured, is not an effective tool for repairing a damaged human body.

Could TF Gun technology be adapted to make a healing morph system?

Would it be possible for Tedd to make those adjustments?

Could he make those adjustments himself?  What about if he had assistance from medical experts familiar with the technology (Dr Sciuridae, perhaps)?

[mlooney 3,417]

5 hours ago, InfiniteRemnant said:

I didn't realise "intentionally vague" was an accepted unit of measurement...

Sure, normally said soonish or lateish.  When you get down to it ASAP is rather vague.

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

3 minutes ago, mlooney said:

Sure, normally said soonish or lateish.  When you get down to it ASAP is rather vague.

Very true.  Some of his fables make no sense whatsoever.
Humans are coerced from earliest childhood to accept that these stories of talking aminals represent profound wisdom.

[ijuin 572]

It makes me wonder what Aesop was smoking when he created those stories.

[Scotty 1,061]

5 hours ago, Maplestrip said:

Today's answer doesn't confirm that magic can't be used to heal such illnesses, though. It only makes clear that transformation magic can't be used for it. With Ted in the team, it seems like a matter of time before he investigates a person with healing-specific magic and applies it in Uryom-style technology.

I mean, realistically. And, knowing this webcomic, "a matter of time" refers to many decades from our perspective

I know, I'd like to think that there's some form of healing magic aside of faster self healing. It's just that there was a big discussion on the previous forums about whether or not the TFG could be used to fix genetic issues like cancer or heart defects or something.

I guess it could temporarily give amputees their limbs back, though they'd have to get rezapped every month.

[ProfessorTomoe 1,308]

18 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I guess it could temporarily give amputees their limbs back, though they'd have to get rezapped every month.

Tedd said during the Squirrel Prophet arc that he thinks he can now make wands that can permanently change default forms. No re-zappy would be required if he can pull it off.

[Scotty 1,061]

1 minute ago, ProfessorTomoe said:

Tedd said during the Squirrel Prophet arc that he thinks he can now make wands that can permanently change default forms. No re-zappy would be required if he can pull it off.

Permanent transformations was something I thought of after I posted that, yeah it would help with the amputee example, but would it also help with the other stuff or is there a limit like cancer cannot simply be transformed away?

[ProfessorTomoe 1,308]

2 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Permanent transformations was something I thought of after I posted that, yeah it would help with the amputee example, but would it also help with the other stuff or is there a limit like cancer cannot simply be transformed away?

You'd likely have to get into the area of DNA modification and other sciencey stuff that I'd bet Dan doesn't want to tackle if you wanted to see this in the comic.

[Scotty 1,061]

3 minutes ago, ProfessorTomoe said:

You'd likely have to get into the area of DNA modification and other sciencey stuff that I'd bet Dan doesn't want to tackle if you wanted to see this in the comic.

Yeah, I don't imagine that Dan would want to make magic be some sort of cure all. There probably is something that could do that level of healing but it might be rare or require a lot of energy, but transformations doing so would seem too easy with how common that type of magic is.

[ProfessorTomoe 1,308]

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Yeah, I don't imagine that Dan would want to make magic be some sort of cure all. There probably is something that could do that level of healing but it might be rare or require a lot of energy, but transformations doing so would seem too easy with how common that type of magic is.

Granted, though, the possibility of healing wands would give Tedd some serious firepower to use against his father's arguments about keeping magic secret ... at least in Tedd's eyes, it would. His father would have to break out a ton of charts and fake at least a couple of seizures to get Tedd to stop arguing.

[Scotty 1,061]

1 minute ago, ProfessorTomoe said:

Granted, though, the possibility of healing wands would give Tedd some serious firepower to use against his father's arguments about keeping magic secret ... at least in Tedd's eyes, it would. His father would have to break out a ton of charts and fake at least a couple of seizures to get Tedd to stop arguing.

Tedd already tried though. I would think that wands with protective spells could also include anything that could heal as well, and Edward's response would likely be the same.

[hkmaly 490]

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

Would the same apply to Elliot if he got injured in normal form, would morphing into Cheerleadra speed up the healing. Grace has the advantage that her faster healing is due to genetics so it doesn't matter what form she takes. She could get a papercut working at the comic shop and have it healed by the end of her shift. Elliot gets a nasty scrape, would that scrape persist when he morphs into Cheerleadra? Would the faster healing only apply to injuries sustained while in the superhero form? I'm also guessing that if the injury was severe enough it might interfere with Elliot's morphing ability, or else if he ever got into a car accident he could just morph into Cheerleadra and fly to the emergency room.

If the injury would be severe enough, Elliot might be unable to concentrate enough to change. But otherwise, very good question.

9 hours ago, Maplestrip said:

Today's answer doesn't confirm that magic can't be used to heal such illnesses, though. It only makes clear that transformation magic can't be used for it. With Ted in the team, it seems like a matter of time before he investigates a person with healing-specific magic and applies it in Uryom-style technology.

The answer doesn't even says anything about transformation magic in general. Although the part about hiding is likely true for most kind of transformations, remember that even hiding injuries is useful - especially if it allows you to move closer to hospital.

4 hours ago, Scotty said:

I guess it could temporarily give amputees their limbs back, though they'd have to get rezapped every month.

Maybe not. Well, or it will add the limb but the amputee wouldn't be able to move it. For the same reason why it can't make person cold blooded or give them hollow bird bones. Seems like TFG is mostly about changing the look and is not able to change internal organs.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

Yeah, I don't imagine that Dan would want to make magic be some sort of cure all. There probably is something that could do that level of healing but it might be rare or require a lot of energy, but transformations doing so would seem too easy with how common that type of magic is.

Or, there are lot of things magic can heal but you need different spells for different kinds of healing. If you need medical knowledge for just selecting the correct spell, it definitely wouldn't be "cure all".

50 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Tedd already tried though. I would think that wands with protective spells could also include anything that could heal as well, and Edward's response would likely be the same.

And rightly so. Healing spells will not really help if someone will starts casting fireballs.

[NN1 0]

What about genetic disorders? That wouldn't be "injury" per se, but rather a normal aspect of your form. They've already shown improved physical attributes from transformations. Say have a form that is otherwise identical to the subject but doesn't have hemophilia?

What about conditions like muscular dystrophy which is characterized by a degradation of skeletal muscles? A strength-augmenting transformation, applied regularly, could conceivably improve someone's quality of life. It wouldn't be permanent per se, but getting zapped daily seems like a rather small price to pay, even if sufficiently powerful TF equipment outside the magic leak was refrigerator size or larger.

Not lasting after transformations wear off, while annoying, doesn't stop this sort of procedure from being a godsend to people with serious, chronic (or potentially terminal) conditions. Even if transformations can't CURE cancer, maybe they can move the tumor somewhere more convenient for surgery, or make a form where an important organ is redundant, allowing safer surgery or longer lifespan (how about a form with an extra heart?). 

 

[hkmaly 490]

10 minutes ago, NN1 said:

What about genetic disorders? That wouldn't be "injury" per se, but rather a normal aspect of your form. They've already shown improved physical attributes from transformations. Say have a form that is otherwise identical to the subject but doesn't have hemophilia?

What about conditions like muscular dystrophy which is characterized by a degradation of skeletal muscles? A strength-augmenting transformation, applied regularly, could conceivably improve someone's quality of life. It wouldn't be permanent per se, but getting zapped daily seems like a rather small price to pay, even if sufficiently powerful TF equipment outside the magic leak was refrigerator size or larger.

Not lasting after transformations wear off, while annoying, doesn't stop this sort of procedure from being a godsend to people with serious, chronic (or potentially terminal) conditions. Even if transformations can't CURE cancer, maybe they can move the tumor somewhere more convenient for surgery, or make a form where an important organ is redundant, allowing safer surgery or longer lifespan (how about a form with an extra heart?). 

Those are all great points about transformations in general. But I would again point out that TF gun can't make person cold blooded or give them hollow bird bones. There are obviously limits to what TF gun changes, and while Dan doesn't really want to go in details, we can assume that it is NOT able to do lot of those things.

(Note that cancer with single tumor is usually considered easy case. While position of tumor can make it problem, the real problem of most cancers are metastasis - lot of small hard to find tumors everywhere in body.)

 

[Scotty 1,061]

33 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Maybe not. Well, or it will add the limb but the amputee wouldn't be able to move it. For the same reason why it can't make person cold blooded or give them hollow bird bones. Seems like TFG is mostly about changing the look and is not able to change internal organs.

But the TFG can add bones, or else we wouldn't see morphs with tails. We also know that amputees don't really lose their ability to move a limb they've lost, the nerve endings are still viable in a lot of cases that cybernetic limbs can be made that can translate the electrical impulses from the nerve endings allowing a person to control the prosthetic. I couldn't see why a morph wouldn't be able generate an arm or leg in the way it does a tail and the person be able to use it easily.

 

 

 

[hkmaly 490]

5 minutes ago, Scotty said:

49 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Maybe not. Well, or it will add the limb but the amputee wouldn't be able to move it. For the same reason why it can't make person cold blooded or give them hollow bird bones. Seems like TFG is mostly about changing the look and is not able to change internal organs.

But the TFG can add bones, or else we wouldn't see morphs with tails. We also know that amputees don't really lose their ability to move a limb they've lost, the nerve endings are still viable in a lot of cases that cybernetic limbs can be made that can translate the electrical impulses from the nerve endings allowing a person to control the prosthetic. I couldn't see why a morph wouldn't be able generate an arm or leg in the way it does a tail and the person be able to use it easily.

True ; limbs are internally relatively easy AND the morphs with tails - MOVING tails, in fact - seem to suggest it is possible.

And even if the degree of control would be limited (that person wasn't exactly playing piano, and we can't rule out degradation of nerves being limit, although inability to CONNECT nerves to sensors in high enough number is more likely cause) amputee would likely still prefer it to prosthetic, just like they prefer prosthetic to nothing.

On the other hand, I don't really understand what's so hard on the hollow bones either. And remember, Dan might not have so big medical knowledge, but he's still final authority about what is possible in EGS.

[Scotty 1,061]

12 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

And even if the degree of control would be limited (that person wasn't exactly playing piano, and we can't rule out degradation of nerves being limit, although inability to CONNECT nerves to sensors in high enough number is more likely cause) amputee would likely still prefer it to prosthetic, just like they prefer prosthetic to nothing.

Well those cybernetic limbs are still in the trial stages, IIRC they're testing with military personnel who've lost limbs in combat, so yeah the degree at which the limb can accurately read the electrical impulses is still likely low and there's probably a learning curve as well, but it still promising and we'll probably see cybernetic limbs that move more fluidly in the near future.

12 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

On the other hand, I don't really understand what's so hard on the hollow bones either. And remember, Dan might not have so big medical knowledge, but he's still final authority about what is possible in EGS.

I'm guessing the cold blooded and hollow bones thing would require a complete genetic overhaul to accomplish properly, not sure what could go wrong with the cold blooded part, but I could see hollow bones breaking under the weight of a person's own body. I think we've speculated that Tara and Andrea couldn't possibly be hollow boned for the reason that their size would be hugely detrimental to any benefit hollow bones could give.