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Story: Wednesday, July 27, 2016

33 posts in this topic

I think they're both bluffing. :D

Well, it would seem that Immortals used to know the ins and outs of Magic, but have forgotten it, probably due to resetting and not carrying this in the "important knowledge" category.

Doesn't seem like Pandora either believes what Disco Wizard is saying about Magic having a will of it's own, or doesn't care that Magic has a will of it's own. Very likely the latter.

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The general impression that's been given so far is that one really shouldn't screw around with an immortal on their playing field, and that Pandora, above all, should not be messed with. The world of dreams is probably close enough to the immaterial plane the immortals exist on to make no difference as far as it being Pandora's playing field, so unless the wizard can get a specific advantage from them being inside a mind he's supposed to be in and she's not, I suspect he's outgunned.

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Wait, if it's in Grace's dreamscape, can't she see and hear everything that goes on?

 

Gah, we know so little about magic! We don't even know if Disco Wizard can cast Rainbow Beam!

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I suspect at least some of DW's worry is about whether Grace's mind could survive being the site of an in-earnest battle between them.  We don't know whether Pandora would have any compunctions about leaving Grace an emotional wreck and/or a vegetable.

 

Dan is spelling out explicitly that Pandora can't throw the first punch, but she can throw the second, and it'll be a doozie.

I'm picturing either Justin or Elliot stepping up to defend someone from Pandora (probably not knowing it's her, and likely having been deliberately goaded into action), and when that first punch is thrown, Pandora breaks into an awful grin....

Edited by CritterKeeper
Added another thought

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2 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

I suspect at least some of DW's worry is about whether Grace's mind could survive being the site of an in-earnest battle between them.  We don't know whether Pandora would have any compunctions about leaving Grace an emotional wreck and/or a vegetable.

Pandora must realize that harming Grace would be harmful to Tedd so she's probably going to be treading carefully here, but she still wanted to know who's been giving Grace information. There are probably things she could do that wouldn't harm Grace though.

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Pandora's initial question was
 

Quote

Someone has been talking to you in your dreams, little squirrel.
Telling you about Magic Marks and who's been leaving them.
Let's see if they're in your head NOW, shall we?


It seems she has as good of an answer as can be obtained within Grace's skull.  So there is no reason for her to remain.

So since Pandora does not need to be there anymore, I'm sure she will not feel compelled to answer the Emissary's instructions to leave with a confrontation.  She is far to level headed and pacifistic for that.

 

3 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Dan is spelling out explicitly that Pandora can't throw the first punch, but she can throw the second, and it'll be a doozie.

I'm picturing either Justin or Elliot stepping up to defend someone from Pandora (probably not knowing it's her, and likely having been deliberately goaded into action), and when that first punch is thrown, Pandora breaks into an awful grin....

Does Sensei Greg's  Anime Style Martial Arts include a doctrine of "Shoot Back First"?  (Sometimes expressed as "Do unto others before they can do unto you".)

 

Edited by Pharaoh RutinTutin
Punctuation

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1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

"Do unto others before they can do unto you"

By Roger Miller, 1967. A longer passage: 

" The code of the west a man soaps his own saddle
Brands his own cattle and some of his neighbors' as well"

Lyrics Song

 

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What I'm getting out of this exchange so far is that Disco Wizard is really doing is trying to keep Pandora from finding out what he's doing in Grace's mind. Pandora doesn't really want to hurt anyone at this point, but neither is she going to back off without learning what's going on here. It would be nice if we got some idea of what's really going on, and there's promise that we will: The Shive has begun a Canon NP which seems to be dealing with all those magic marks. Again. While some might believe that Squirrel Prophet was mostly about playing (not) Magic the Gathering (Something I've never done, BTW; I'm an extremely old wargamer and RPGer) the most recurrent feature was discovering magic marks--a feature that continued in the canon NP where Pandora visited Sarah.

I kind of think the next twist in the Graceverse will be for Grace to become aware of Pandora, perhaps learning that Pandora is Mr. Raven's mother. And I'm still hoping for Grace to make another Foxy Rhoda.

BTW, remember how Disco Wizard suggested to Grace how she could make the mean teacher harmless? I have two speculations on that: Maybe DW doesn't have enough enough power to do that, even in Grace's dream and even with the backing of "Magic Itself." Also, maybe what DW has really been doing is sleep-teaching Grace in using new powers, such as detecting magic--and perhaps transforming others. Which is exactly what she did in this dream.

Which would make her only the third EGS character who can do that, the others being Tedd (TG gun), Ellen (beam), Tedd again (touch only).

Hey, we have another opportunity for a blast from the past here: Sister's  genesis began with Tedd's plan to get even with Tony by turning him into a girl for a day but zapping Elliot instead, which led to the creation of Ellen. Now Tedd has the ability to transform Tony into a girl if he's touching Tony--or, conversely, if Tony is touching him, say, by grabbing Tedd by the throat after Tedd scores with one of his better Tedd-isms. This would fit wonderfully into Pandora's plan to reveal magic and it would probably surprise her. Of course, we'll have to wait until Monday in Moperverse, which may not get to our universe for another year or two..

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1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

I kind of think the next twist in the Graceverse will be for Grace to become aware of Pandora, perhaps learning that Pandora is Mr. Raven's mother. And I'm still hoping for Grace to make another Foxy Rhoda.

Grace1 knows about Pandora, sort of, in Pandora's "creepy girl" mode at least.  Grace even suspect that Pandora is the one spreading the marks around like crackerjack prizes.  What Grace doesn't know Pandora's name or Pandora's relationship to Adrian.

Pandora as Foxy Rhoda would only be funny until Pandora decided it wasn't fun any more.  Then it would turn into a horrifying eldritch horror.   That might be amusing in it's own right, for us any way.  The characters might not think this.  Much like train wrecks are fun to watch, but Not A Good Thing to be in.

1I've decided to avoid pronouns as much as possible, both for gender reasons and for character clarity.   I'll see how that works in role playing game rules.

Web Designer Bitching
I really has issues with how this editor deals with identical spans.  I'm not sure why this is a problem, but it freaking is. I am also not found of it using <strong> instead of <b> and <em> instead of <i>, but that's an HTML5 problem, not unique to what ever semi WYSIWYG editor this forum is using.  In addition the editor is using the default web pallet for text colors.  Use the damn name, not the weird ass hex notation.  Of course the up side to it using HTML5/CSS instead of BBCODE is that if you want to play weird games with your message you can.  Dictionary lists, for example.  One of my favorite things.  I've also just found that if you do "hand insert" HTML and/or CSS it doesn't try to convert it to it's preferred style.  That's great.  Next thing on the list of things to find out is if I can include my own CSS block or if I have to deal with using style="foo;" all the time.
Edited by mlooney
Oh, good. Editor not really brain dead.

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4 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

BTW, remember how Disco Wizard suggested to Grace how she could make the mean teacher harmless? I have two speculations on that: Maybe DW doesn't have enough enough power to do that, even in Grace's dream and even with the backing of "Magic Itself." Also, maybe what DW has really been doing is sleep-teaching Grace in using new powers, such as detecting magic--and perhaps transforming others. Which is exactly what she did in this dream.

I think it's more the latter, Disco Wizard is able to manipulate Grace's dream as shown by him getting Grace back into clothes, but he let Grace deal with the teacher with just a bit of help and a suggestion. He probably could have done it himself, but doing it the way he did, probably helped ease Grace into the idea that she is dreaming and so everything else we saw (wizard Nanase, beefy male Sarah, etc) was Grace's imagination showing her attempt to understand what Disco Wizard is saying.

4 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Which would make her only the third EGS character who can do that, the others being Tedd (TG gun), Ellen (beam), Tedd again (touch only).

Ehhhhh....I think the fact that she can only do that in her dream would make it not count. Sarah can potentially do the same with her spell, but the fact that it'd be simulated wouldn't count either. Elliot could also transform people in his dream whether intentional or not. Both Tedd and Ellen can do it on real people with real results (well real in comic terms).

Rhoda is close to being an actual third in that she can manipulate sizes, but not change a person's form completely. Though manipulating size might be enough to count as transforming people.

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I actually think that what someone mentioned earlier about Grace's mind being the problem may well be true. neither Pandora or the Disco Wizard particularly want to harm Grace- Pandora because I doubt she wants to piss of her son and/or Tedd (that, and Grace may or may not factor into whatever plan she has) while the DW doesn't want to harm Grace since she is sort of vital to stopping Pandora, since she's the only one who even subconsciously knows WTF is going on.

 

I remember a line from a fic I read, that may or may not be a saying in our world- when elephants fight, it's the grass that gets trampled. What it means is that- if DW really is  operating on behalf of Magic ( and it is worth noting that we have only his word that he is- he could easily be the immortal that tried to get Elliott killed, for example.) then he could probably take Pandora. However, the battle would almost certainly damage Grace's mind, if not rip it to shreds.

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Isn't it odd that, in fiction, we always assume the exposition given by a character is correct?

All we actually have is a guy who heard a voice in his head telling him to go talk to Grace.  Yeah, OK, voice in head people tend to assume it's God for some reason, but I could easily understand a wizard deciding it was the voice of magic.

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19 hours ago, Scotty said:

Well, it would seem that Immortals used to know the ins and outs of Magic, but have forgotten it, probably due to resetting and not carrying this in the "important knowledge" category.

Maybe it was just specifically Pandora who considered it not important. Or maybe it was "lost" due to improper deaths and not really sharing that information ...

14 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

I'm picturing either Justin or Elliot stepping up to defend someone from Pandora (probably not knowing it's her, and likely having been deliberately goaded into action), and when that first punch is thrown, Pandora breaks into an awful grin....

... jup, seems extremely likely.

11 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

She is far to level headed and pacifistic for that.

Wait what? PANDORA?

7 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

maybe what DW has really been doing is sleep-teaching Grace in using new powers

Sleep-teaching sounds more likely than him not having the power. That, or him using power would be rude.

7 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

the others being Tedd (TG gun)

ANYONE can change someone else with (pre-programmed) TF Gun. Grace is even able to program it.

1 hour ago, sstabeler said:

I actually think that what someone mentioned earlier about Grace's mind being the problem may well be true. neither Pandora or the Disco Wizard particularly want to harm Grace- Pandora because I doubt she wants to piss of her son and/or Tedd (that, and Grace may or may not factor into whatever plan she has) while the DW doesn't want to harm Grace since she is sort of vital to stopping Pandora, since she's the only one who even subconsciously knows WTF is going on.

I'm not convinced that Disco Wizard would actually win if he didn't hold back, but it's true that 1) he doesn't know Pandora is also likely to hold back 2) it's possible Pandora doesn't need to hold back that much - both "because she can do more without damaging Grace" and because she can afford at least to make few holes in Grace's memory, while the Disco Wizard needs Grace to remember current dream as much as possible.

 

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11 minutes ago, hkmaly said:
2 hours ago, Scotty said:

the others being Tedd (TG gun)

ANYONE can change someone else with (pre-programmed) TF Gun. Grace is even able to program it.

You missquoted again, hehe, but yeah, it would even extend to any of the main cast as just being able to fire it at someone, heck Grace's birthday party is a good example, while Grace and Tedd programmed the forms, each of them got to pull the trigger themselves.

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33 minutes ago, Scotty said:

You missquoted again

Sorry. Fixed.

34 minutes ago, Scotty said:

while Grace and Tedd programmed the forms, each of them got to pull the trigger themselves.

Exactly.

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7 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

BTW, remember how Disco Wizard suggested to Grace how she could make the mean teacher harmless? I have two speculations on that: Maybe DW doesn't have enough enough power to do that, even in Grace's dream and even with the backing of "Magic Itself." Also, maybe what DW has really been doing is sleep-teaching Grace in using new powers, such as detecting magic--and perhaps transforming others. Which is exactly what she did in this dream.

I think the skill he was trying to teach Grace is lucid dreaming. A skilled lucid dreamer is the utter master of their dreamscape, able to change it into whatever they want. That would be quite the handy skill to have for dealing with dream intruders.Even for someone of Pandora's power-level, she would have to contend with someone that controls every aspect of the reality they are in.

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18 hours ago, Random Wanderer said:

The general impression that's been given so far is that one really shouldn't screw around with an immortal on their playing field, and that Pandora, above all, should not be messed with. The world of dreams is probably close enough to the immaterial plane the immortals exist on to make no difference as far as it being Pandora's playing field, so unless the wizard can get a specific advantage from them being inside a mind he's supposed to be in and she's not, I suspect he's outgunned.

We don't know the true nature of Disco Wizard. Maybe he really is the voice of Magic - and the Immortals, individually and collectively, are dependent on his goodwill (or, at least, indifference). What would Pandora be if her access to magic were withdrawn?

Or, of course, maybe he isn't.

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56 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

We don't know the true nature of Disco Wizard. Maybe he really is the voice of Magic - and the Immortals, individually and collectively, are dependent on his goodwill (or, at least, indifference). What would Pandora be if her access to magic were withdrawn?

Or, of course, maybe he isn't.

He's claiming the be the emissary of Magic, which by his admittance is kinda apathetic to the current plight, only putting in a token effort. I doubt Magic Itself would help him that much, at least above and beyond what he can already do as a wizard. Maybe if he is attacked first, as attacking Magic's emissary could be seen as an insult against Magic Itself, but if DW is the aggressor (which he would have to be as Pandora doesn't throw the first punch) then he likely wouldn't get any additional help.

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The fact that Disco Wizard changed his tone to be less commanding says he no longer has the upper hand.  Odd that he felt comfortable giving orders to Immortals at all.  he may be the second most powerful entity we've seen in EGS...

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1 hour ago, Vorlonagent said:

The fact that Disco Wizard changed his tone to be less commanding says he no longer has the upper hand.  Odd that he felt comfortable giving orders to Immortals at all.  he may be the second most powerful entity we've seen in EGS...

Possibly he's strong enough to forcibly eject the average Immortal (putting him on par with Agent Wolf) and just momentarily forgot exactly which Immortal he was threatening.

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