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Story Friday July 29, 2016

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Since Pandora considers Grace part of the family, maybe she should "ask" her if she wants the world destroyed. After all, every family member opinion counts. 

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No she put his students in danger to teach him after he had put himself in danger. She has put Noah in danger however. I guess wards don't count to her.

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Interesting... Of course, I knew Pandora didn't want to hurt Grace from the start, but now she's acting like she's the one who is right and Disco Wizard is the bad guy here. That's probably because she doesn't believe him, but it's still pretty weird how the tables have suddenly turned so completely. What's more, Disco Wizard sees her point. I'm not saying Pandora is lying, but once again she's showing off her manipulation skills.

Anyway, if these two can keep things civll, perhaps this conversation will be useful to them both. I doubt Pandora will change her mind about her plan, but that's just because I think she will simply refuse to believe anything Disco Wizard tells her. Disco Wizard, on the other hand, might learn things that he can later tell Grace or someone else to help them stop Pandora, assuming that Pandora won't lie to his face about everything he asks her, of course.

49 minutes ago, partner555 said:

Didn't Pandora once put Adrian in danger to teach him a lesson?

Yes.

15 minutes ago, PSadlon said:

No she put his students in danger after Adrian had put himself in Danger. She has put Noah in danger however. I guess wards don't count to her.

In short, she has put a lot of people in danger and didn't care. I can feel sorry for her because of her past, but that doesn't mean I can forgive some of her actions. If she had reset, she would have been more reasonable and warned Adrian about Abraham's attack, even though Adrian saw it coming himself. As for Noah, I still don't get what she would have gained from his death, so I must assume she just wanted entertainment. Still, surely she knew that Noah couldn't beat the dragon because she was cheating by giving Dex so much power that the dragon couldn't be unsummoned, so maybe she really did mean for Noah to die or she simply didn't care.

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1 hour ago, SeriousJupiter said:
2 hours ago, partner555 said:

Didn't Pandora once put Adrian in danger to teach him a lesson?

Yes.

1 hour ago, PSadlon said:

No she put his students in danger after Adrian had put himself in Danger. She has put Noah in danger however. I guess wards don't count to her.

In short, she has put a lot of people in danger and didn't care. I can feel sorry for her because of her past, but that doesn't mean I can forgive some of her actions. If she had reset, she would have been more reasonable and warned Adrian about Abraham's attack, even though Adrian saw it coming himself. As for Noah, I still don't get what she would have gained from his death, so I must assume she just wanted entertainment. Still, surely she knew that Noah couldn't beat the dragon because she was cheating by giving Dex so much power that the dragon couldn't be unsummoned, so maybe she really did mean for Noah to die or she simply didn't care.

She didn't put anyone in danger, she didn't bring Abraham to MSHS and have him try to kill Ellen. All she can be faulted for is not warning Adrian or Edward about the situation before hand. She did help though, first by placing a fresh disguise back on Adrian, and then by telling Nanase about Ellen having the doll with her. She then finally notified Edward.

The part about Noah though. Yeah, Pandora created the pendant and used it to manipulate Dex (whom she also marked) into creating golems and the bulldog dragon, she then marked Justin and lured Noah into a situation where he's have to fight the bulldog dragon. It put Noah, as well as Justin, Elliot, Grace, Greg and Dex in danger at least as they perceived it, but I don't think Pandora felt this would have really harmed anyone, it was more for show.

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It is a cliché that villains do not see themselves as the bad guys.
From an Obi Wan point of view, both Pandora and the Emissary are wrong and both are justified.
I am no longer sure which one is really the good guy, or which one I should support.

Disco Wizard, your opponent has effectively made the opening statement in the debate by telling you to make the opening statement.
Your argument better be amazing.

And what would happen if Grace was to wake up right now?

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31 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

And what would happen if Grace was to wake up right now?

I think Pandora and Disco Wizard would automatically leave her head, but I'm not sure. I certainly hope so.

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1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

It is a cliché that villains do not see themselves as the bad guys.
From an Obi Wan point of view, both Pandora and the Emissary are wrong and both are justified.
I am no longer sure which one is really the good guy, or which one I should support.

Disco Wizard, your opponent has effectively made the opening statement in the debate by telling you to make the opening statement.
Your argument better be amazing.

And what would happen if Grace was to wake up right now?

Well, while they both could be in the wrong with entering Grace's mind, let's look at it this way: The Emissary is trying to warn Grace about a huge devastating magic change, and Pandora is trying to start the apocalypse.

I think I know who to support.

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1 hour ago, TheAmazingKMan said:

Well, while they both could be in the wrong with entering Grace's mind, let's look at it this way: The Emissary is trying to warn Grace about a huge devastating magic change, and Pandora is trying to start the apocalypse.

I think I know who to support.

Given that Project X is about, in part, magic coming back to the world, I know who I would support as well.  May or may not be the same person as you are supporting.

Also, well, as far as any thing that Pandora says can be considered canon (when you a demi-goddess of chaos it's not like your word is your bond), it's canon that she has no ill will towards Grace, and in fact will protect her.

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5 hours ago, Scotty said:

She didn't put anyone in danger, she didn't bring Abraham to MSHS and have him try to kill Ellen. All she can be faulted for is not warning Adrian or Edward about the situation before hand. She did help though, first by placing a fresh disguise back on Adrian, and then by telling Nanase about Ellen having the doll with her. She then finally notified Edward.

The part about Noah though. Yeah, Pandora created the pendant and used it to manipulate Dex (whom she also marked) into creating golems and the bulldog dragon, she then marked Justin and lured Noah into a situation where he's have to fight the bulldog dragon. It put Noah, as well as Justin, Elliot, Grace, Greg and Dex in danger at least as they perceived it, but I don't think Pandora felt this would have really harmed anyone, it was more for show.

She did send Nanase against Abraham (while disguised) as Fox especially when she could have done anything else that would have not put additional students at risk.  And whIle I believe she accurately guessed that Nanase would roll a new spell that would turn the tide Pandora likes to take chances with outcomes.

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1 hour ago, mlooney said:

he Emissary is trying to warn Grace about a huge devastating magic change, and Pandora is trying to start the apocalypse.

A reasonable guess about The Emissary's motivation, but wouldn't Pandora be a likely agent of that change? If it is really “Magic Itself” behind this, Pandora is just as likely to be a catspaw as The Emissary/Disco Wizard.

Grand Godson

I happened to be looking at Sister II again a little before I got my first look at this installment, and I was reminded of the “Grand Godson” mentioned in Squirrel Prophet. What would that mean? It finally occurred to me that Adrian is Tedd's godfather—yet another reason for Adrian to feel guilty for causing the breakup of Tedd's parents.

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Yup, and that basically makes Pandora literally Tedd's "Faerie Godmother" (or "Grandmother" if you prefer).

I think that part of Pandora preferentially Marking/empowering Tedd's friends is that she wants them to be strong enough to face the coming battles that will occur when her Apocalypse kicks into high gear. She knows from Blaike's death that she can't directly protect everybody, and so, as with Adrian, she wants them to have strength of their own. That doesn't preclude toying with them for fun, of course--though any serious danger that she puts them into will be ones where she expects them to survive. Think of Mxyzptlk or Q tormenting people in order to "train them".

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5 hours ago, SeriousJupiter said:

I think Pandora and Disco Wizard would automatically leave her head, but I'm not sure. I certainly hope so.

I kind of want a sleepy Grace to walk up to both of them, telling them to keep it down, she has a test tomorrow, or something like that.  She could sneak up on them, being the "sleepy little ninja" that she is...

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1 hour ago, PSadlon said:

She did send Nanase against Abraham (while disguised) as Fox especially when she could have done anything else that would have not put additional students at risk.  And whIle I believe she accurately guessed that Nanase would roll a new spell that would turn the tide Pandora likes to take chances with outcomes.

A couple other reasons Pandora had Nanase go out after Abraham. She knew about Nanase's attachment to Ellen and that she would fight for Ellen if given the chance. Also, aside from Adrian, Nanase was probably the next strongest magic user capable of fighting. Pandora had already alerted Edward at that point, but they wouldn't be able to get there in time to stop Abraham, Pandora couldn't get involved directly herself, so Nanase was the best choice.

Though... I guess if you want to get technical, you could say that Pandora put everyone in danger by telling Magus about how to use the Dewitchery Diamond to get back into the physical realm. She must have known that Ellen's creation would get Abraham's attention. We could probably also go as far as say whatever she did nearly 15 years ago that got the the energy clog started that put everyone in danger.

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3 hours ago, ijuin said:

Yup, and that basically makes Pandora literally Tedd's "Faerie Godmother" (or "Grandmother" if you prefer).

I think that part of Pandora preferentially Marking/empowering Tedd's friends is that she wants them to be strong enough to face the coming battles that will occur when her Apocalypse kicks into high gear. She knows from Blaike's death that she can't directly protect everybody, and so, as with Adrian, she wants them to have strength of their own. That doesn't preclude toying with them for fun, of course--though any serious danger that she puts them into will be ones where she expects them to survive. Think of Mxyzptlk or Q tormenting people in order to "train them".

I doubt that is the sole reason for the marks; Rhoda and Luke are marked also, and neither have any significant relation to Tedd.

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14 hours ago, inqntrol said:

Since Pandora considers Grace part of the family, maybe she should "ask" her if she wants the world destroyed.

She asked Adrian. He didn't wanted. She continues regardless.

12 hours ago, SeriousJupiter said:

Disco Wizard, on the other hand, might learn things that he can later tell Grace or someone else to help them stop Pandora, assuming that Pandora won't lie to his face about everything he asks her, of course.

What makes you think Disco Wizard wouldn't be lying to her face?

10 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I am no longer sure which one is really the good guy, or which one I should support.

IMHO only good guy here is Grace.

9 hours ago, SeriousJupiter said:
10 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

And what would happen if Grace was to wake up right now?

I think Pandora and Disco Wizard would automatically leave her head, but I'm not sure. I certainly hope so.

Disco Wizard would certainly leave, as he can only talk with her in dream. Pandora, on the other hand ...

5 hours ago, PSadlon said:

She did send Nanase against Abraham (while disguised) as Fox especially when she could have done anything else that would have not put additional students at risk.  And whIle I believe she accurately guessed that Nanase would roll a new spell that would turn the tide Pandora likes to take chances with outcomes.

Note that without that new spell, Nanase wouldn't be able to get close enough to Abraham to be in any risk. Ellen, on the other hand ...

4 hours ago, ijuin said:

I think that part of Pandora preferentially Marking/empowering Tedd's friends is that she wants them to be strong enough to face the coming battles that will occur when her Apocalypse kicks into high gear.

What makes you think Pandora is preferentially marking Tedd's friends? She marked Tedd, Justin and Sarah. That's three from eight, and I'm not sure if Tedd counts. It's possible there is nothing special about that ratio and that she already marked 35% of Moperville high school students.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

She must have known that Ellen's creation would get Abraham's attention.

Judging Pandora for her actions can get weird if you realize that in the point she told Magus, she might've already predicted that she wouldn't be able to make anyone kill Abraham.

Did she really put anyone in danger if she predicted with 95% they will survive? Or maybe 99.9999% ... (that's the precision she predicted her sleep with).

 

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1 minute ago, hkmaly said:

Did she really put anyone in danger if she predicted with 95% they will survive? Or maybe 99.9999% ... (that's the precision she predicted her sleep with).

I wonder if Dan intentionally had her mention how far off she was in her prediction as an indication of how far she's gone without reseting. Jerry did say that the older an Immortal gets, the more clairvoyant they become.

So as you say, if she's able to predict things with 99.9999% accuracy, then she's gotta be really grasping at straws for something she can't predict, the only thing that's probably keeping her somewhat in check is the fact that she has family which seems to still take priority over trying to find something unpredictable.

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37 minutes ago, hkmaly said:
11 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I am no longer sure which one is really the good guy, or which one I should support.

IMHO only good guy here is Grace.

Just a reminder, chaos isn't always evil.

Not saying Pandora is or isn't evil, just chaotic.

 

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1 hour ago, mlooney said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:
12 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I am no longer sure which one is really the good guy, or which one I should support.

IMHO only good guy here is Grace.

Just a reminder, chaos isn't always evil.

Not saying Pandora is or isn't evil, just chaotic.

She didn't lost her "good guy" status because she's chaotic. She lost it because I'm not convinced she will place lives of people hight enough in her plan. Case in point, she wanted to kill Abraham. It's one thing if Adrian would kill him in self-defense, it's another if Pandora wanted to kill him when he was already neutralized as a threat. I'm also not completely convinced that what she did with Dex was safe ... hmmm ... wait, do we have confirmed it was her? Maybe someone tried to frame her ...

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6 hours ago, hkmaly said:
19 hours ago, SeriousJupiter said:

Disco Wizard, on the other hand, might learn things that he can later tell Grace or someone else to help them stop Pandora, assuming that Pandora won't lie to his face about everything he asks her, of course.

What makes you think Disco Wizard wouldn't be lying to her face?

If he hasn't been lying up to this point and doesn't have some secret that he needs to hide from Pandora, he has little incentive to lie to her. His stated goal is to prevent the magical system change and Pandora is one of, if not the main cause of that threat. If he can, by some shred of luck or miracle, convince her of the gravity of the consequences of her apocalypse and get her to stop, then he's completed his objective before things get too out of hand.

 

6 hours ago, hkmaly said:
16 hours ago, SeriousJupiter said:
17 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

And what would happen if Grace was to wake up right now?

I think Pandora and Disco Wizard would automatically leave her head, but I'm not sure. I certainly hope so.

Disco Wizard would certainly leave, as he can only talk with her in dream. Pandora, on the other hand ...

Pandora would likely be ejected as well. She had to wait for Grace to be dreaming to enter her mind and root around for clues.

 

7 hours ago, hkmaly said:
10 hours ago, Scotty said:

She must have known that Ellen's creation would get Abraham's attention.

Judging Pandora for her actions can get weird if you realize that in the point she told Magus, she might've already predicted that she wouldn't be able to make anyone kill Abraham.

Maybe that's why she only threw a bit of a tantrum instead of throwing a massive tantrum.

 

7 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Did she really put anyone in danger if she predicted with 95% they will survive? Or maybe 99.9999% ... (that's the precision she predicted her sleep with).

Assuming she didn't do anything to induce uncertainty into the situation, maybe. Maybe not. She can predict wrongly and has been surprised before, and I don't trust her to not induce uncertainty into the situation. She cares deeply for her family, but she's also crazy and dangerously unstable.

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8 hours ago, Scotty said:

Though... I guess if you want to get technical, you could say that Pandora put everyone in danger by telling Magus about how to use the Dewitchery Diamond to get back into the physical realm. She must have known that Ellen's creation would get Abraham's attention.

 

5 hours ago, hkmaly said:She asked Adrian. He didn't wanted. She continues regardless.

Judging Pandora for her actions can get weird if you realize that in the point she told Magus, she might've already predicted that she wouldn't be able to make anyone kill Abraham.

It occurred to me tonight how much Pandora's life must be like the movie Groundhog Day.  It's been 23 years, and I think at least the premise has gotten out, that it's about a guy being stuck reliving the exact same day over and over.  And, there comes a point where he's figured out every good deed and the best way to fit them all in, has tried everything there is to try, and can go through the day doing amazing things, and be utterly and completely bored with it, because he's already done it so many times before.  If Pandora can predict everything with almost-complete accuracy, I can see how that would get old.

Note that, as a long-time fan of Highlander, Methuselah's Children, and Forever Knight and a number of other series with near-Immortal protagonists, I've thought about this more than I probably should, and I don't find this a likely outcome.  People always say that someone with a long lifespan will have seen it all and gotten bored with it all, to the point of life becoming unbearable.  I say, bull.  The world doesn't stay static.  It's not like a video game you've played too many times.  Real life people are infinitely variable, and the world itself changes all the time.  When I go home to visit my parents, after not living in that town for a couple of decades, it's a mix of old familar stuff and new interesting things, and the percentages shift further with every visit.  Even if you were tied to one geographic location, that location will change around you.  Given the ability to travel whenever and wherever you desire, it would be impossible to see the whole world, because by the time you reached your last destination, your first would be unrecognizable.

To quote a T-shirt, "Boredom is [almost always] a self-inflicted wound."  Granted it's sometimes something we choose as the lesser evil.  Stay at a job that doesn't challenge you, or risk being jobless if you can't find a better one?  Stay in a familiar town, or risk not finding anyplace as good when you travel?  People today have so many options it's incredible!

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