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Xenophon Hendrix

Pandora is Being Framed

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I don't remember if anyone has brought this up, but it looks like whoever empowered Dex and gave him the jar pendant was trying to set up Pandora. This comic and this comic show that Dex's manipulator was willing to kill Noah. We now know that Pandora cares deeply about her family, and that she would never risk Noah given that he is Raven's ward. She believes that her great-Godson's girlfriend is practically family, so Noah must be, too.

If this idea has already been thoroughly discussed somewhere, I apologize.

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22 minutes ago, Xenophon Hendrix said:

I don't remember if anyone has brought this up, but it looks like whoever empowered Dex and gave him the jar pendant was trying to set up Pandora. This comic and this comic show that Dex's manipulator was willing to kill Noah. We now know that Pandora cares deeply about her family, and that she would never risk Noah given that he is Raven's ward. She believes that her great-Godson's girlfriend is practically family, so Noah must be, too.

If this idea has already been thoroughly discussed somewhere, I apologize.

It hasn't, but it is interesting. The question is: if so, who did it? I can't quite see Colonel Sanders doing it, unless he is more powerful than he has so far shown.

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Actually, I brought up the idea, and I'm pretty sure I wasn't the first. I can't see absolute proof that the manipulator tried to kill Noah, but the manipulator did try to get Dex to sacrifice himself. A little later Adrian connects the pendant with his mother.

However...

In the latest NP arc, which is canon, the unseen narrator says that Pandora actually tried to go by "Box" which could mean Pandora doesn't know about the mis-translation by Erasmus or went with what was the popular misconception at that time. Why wouldn't she know about Erasmus? Not interested in Erasmus? Maybe neither is Pandora.

Even if Pandora marked Dex, we don't know that she gave him the amulet. We just know that Adrian thought his mother did. And even if she did give him the amulet, is she the only one who can use it? And could someone else have put that image of a jar on it?

Remember once again that when Magus refused get Edward to kill Abraham, Pandora didn't kill Magus. Pandora sacrificing a completely innocent person when there's no reason to think she was angry just doesn't fit with all the recent revelations about her, does it?

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Give a character a backstory, draw her cute as a youngster and hot in her adult form, and all at once the Big Bad of the series turns into every one's waifu.  

Of course, I'd like to go on record as being the one that's been saying she's chaotic, not evil the longest.

 

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6 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

In the latest NP arc, which is canon, the unseen narrator says that Pandora actually tried to go by "Box" which could mean Pandora doesn't know about the mis-translation by Erasmus or went with what was the popular misconception at that time. Why wouldn't she know about Erasmus? Not interested in Erasmus? Maybe neither is Pandora.

From what we know now about Pandora, she might have chosen her name BEFORE Erasmus wrote his translation (which, after all, was less than 500 years ago, and she's claimed to be 299 for "centuries", so she's likely older than 500), so she would have been going off of some other translation (or providing her own, if she bothered to learn to read Attic-era Greek).

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Besides, either "box" or "jug" - or any synonym for either - would be an extremely common object, with a few of each in almost every household. Not a clear reference to anything in particular.

"Pandora", on the other hand, would at most refer to a few percent of the female population.

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On August 6, 2016 at 0:14 PM, Tom Sewell said:

Remember once again that when Magus refused get Edward to kill Abraham, Pandora didn't kill Magus. Pandora sacrificing a completely innocent person when there's no reason to think she was angry just doesn't fit with all the recent revelations about her, does it?

Actually, trying to get her grand-godson's father to commit murder is one of the most insane things she's done, given the high value she places on family and how protective of Tedd she's been.  Surely she's smart enough and wise enough to know that Tedd would be harmed by it!  Whether Edward went to jail, or lost his job (rather than the lateral transfer he got for simple police brutality), or even just had to live with the guilt and regret....Tedd would surely be negatively affected.  Not exactly consistent.  Not exactly sane.

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On 8/6/2016 at 4:46 PM, ijuin said:

From what we know now about Pandora, she might have chosen her name BEFORE Erasmus wrote his translation

And since Desiderus Erasmus would have been translating a Greek source copied and recopied over something like two thousand years, there's a pretty good chance the original word meant box and Erasmus (often rated as the most learned man on the planet in his day) concluded that "box" fit the story better and had probably been mis-copied.

Or, maybe "box" makes a better joke than "jar" (unless, of course, one adds "-head").

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On 08/06/2016 at 3:34 PM, Xenophon Hendrix said:

This comic and this comic show that Dex's manipulator was willing to kill Noah.

And Grace might be harmed as well. (And Greg, but he's not important)

On 08/06/2016 at 1:46 AM, ijuin said:

or providing her own, if she bothered to learn to read Attic-era Greek

It's possible immortals can learn languages as fast as Uryuomn ... OR that she GREW in Antic Greek (of course, that would make her older than expected). We have no idea what language Shive translated Pandora's story from.

16 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
On 08/06/2016 at 7:14 PM, Tom Sewell said:

Remember once again that when Magus refused get Edward to kill Abraham, Pandora didn't kill Magus. Pandora sacrificing a completely innocent person when there's no reason to think she was angry just doesn't fit with all the recent revelations about her, does it?

Actually, trying to get her grand-godson's father to commit murder is one of the most insane things she's done, given the high value she places on family and how protective of Tedd she's been.  Surely she's smart enough and wise enough to know that Tedd would be harmed by it!  Whether Edward went to jail, or lost his job (rather than the lateral transfer he got for simple police brutality), or even just had to live with the guilt and regret....Tedd would surely be negatively affected.  Not exactly consistent.  Not exactly sane.

She risked her own son live. Apparently, the things she wants to protect family from doesn't include herself.

Note that if Edward WOULD kill Abraham, he would likely not remember it, based on how Magus's powers works. Which MIGHT've take care of the guilt. If he would lose consciousness, DGB might not be even sure he did it - or, they might've assumed he did it in self-defence. And I don't think he would go to jail. The position they would put him in likely wouldn't be as fancy as head of paranormal diplomacy, but he's too useful and important to them.

And remember: while we speculate what would happen, Pandora KNEW. She might predict exactly how badly would Tedd be affected and decided it's worth it.

 

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3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

It's possible immortals can learn languages as fast as Uryuomn ... OR that she GREW in Antic Greek (of course, that would make her older than expected). We have no idea what language Shive translated Pandora's story from.

Well, the name "Blaike Raven" sounds vaguely Middle Englishey (i.e. post-Norman Conquest, but probably pre-Elizibethean).

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12 hours ago, hkmaly said:

It's possible immortals can learn languages as fast as Uryuomn ... OR that she GREW in Antic Greek (of course, that would make her older than expected). We have no idea what language Shive translated Pandora's story from.

Considering Helena and Demetrius were first shown speaking fluent French and then switching to fluent English not long after. I'm thinking they're either fast picking up languages, or the knowledge of all the languages carry over from reset to reset.

That Helena and Demetrius were initially speaking French was likely due to being reset in France and the confusion afterwards, they would have realized that they'd have to switch to English if they were going to pose as students at MNHS to watch Elliot.

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5 hours ago, Scotty said:

Considering Helena and Demetrius were first shown speaking fluent French and then switching to fluent English not long after. I'm thinking they're either fast picking up languages, or the knowledge of all the languages carry over from reset to reset.

Or they might have a spell akin to Abraham's Modern Knowledge spell, allowing them to pick up the local language (which may have changed considerably since the last time they spoke it).

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Immortals don't seem to use "spells" the way human magic users do.  They just seem to be able to....do stuff.

Supporting thought: Magic is not in danger of resetting for Immortals, just humans and the like.

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On 8/23/2016 at 4:44 PM, Vorlonagent said:

Immortals don't seem to use "spells" the way human magic users do.  They just seem to be able to....do stuff.

Supporting thought: Magic is not in danger of resetting for Immortals, just humans and the like.

Jerry used a Serenity spell on Susan. Immortals don't have to worry about magic resetting for them because magic is intrinsic to their nature, like the uryoums. Humans are the only known group that can get access to magic, or magic-like abilities, but magic isn't intrinsic to their nature.

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12 hours ago, Drasvin said:

Jerry used a Serenity spell on Susan. Immortals don't have to worry about magic resetting for them because magic is intrinsic to their nature, like the uryoums. Humans are the only known group that can get access to magic, or magic-like abilities, but magic isn't intrinsic to their nature.

Maybe it's just story convenience, but I've never seen an Immortal at a loss for a spell.  Contrast to DGB agents, who use wands in order to  have a standardized list of spells handy, Immortals have never been seen needing props.  They always seem to have just the right spell on hand.

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Pandora set up a situation in which her son was in real danger. Why? Pandora wants her son to avoid getting into fights. Some lessons are hard. Which doesn't mean Pandora wasn't genuinely furious when she found how badly Adrian was hurt and how close to death he'd gotten. And also, maybe, probably, angry with herself because she'd caused it.

Perhaps Pandora's plan was to kill Abraham all along. Perhaps the reason no one can destroy the Dewichery Diamond is that it's linked to Abraham--destroy one, destroy the other.

Why would Pandora set up that plan now? How about a fear that she'll become too unstable soon to go on? She could see that giving Adrian a hard lesson (or maybe two) would be the best way to ensure his survival once she herself is gone.

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3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Maybe it's just story convenience, but I've never seen an Immortal at a loss for a spell.  Contrast to DGB agents, who use wands in order to  have a standardized list of spells handy, Immortals have never been seen needing props.  They always seem to have just the right spell on hand.

Helena and Demetrius couldn't cast the spell to access knowledge from their past lives, though that was more a result of not remembering how to than not having it. Though Immortals do seem to have generous spell repositories. My guess would be that they can learn new spells as easily as human wizards currently can (maybe even easier) and can carry spells into new incarnations.

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1 minute ago, Drasvin said:

Helena and Demetrius couldn't cast the spell to access knowledge from their past lives, though that was more a result of not remembering how to than not having it. Though Immortals do seem to have generous spell repositories. My guess would be that they can learn new spells as easily as human wizards currently can (maybe even easier) and can carry spells into new incarnations.

Alternately Immortals may exist under a few core limits that they can't get around, one of which includes the rules for how an Immortal resets.

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3 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Perhaps Pandora's plan was to kill Abraham all along. Perhaps the reason no one can destroy the Dewichery Diamond is that it's linked to Abraham--destroy one, destroy the other.

That's a fascinating idea about the Diamond--and would fit completely with Abraham's boneheadedness. Given the attitude that he's taken about deliberately extending his existence in order to stop the creations of the Diamond, I would not at all be surprised if he would consider suicide if doing so would actually ensure the Diamond's destruction.

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On 8/26/2016 at 4:05 PM, Tom Sewell said:

Perhaps Pandora's plan was to kill Abraham all along. Perhaps the reason no one can destroy the Dewichery Diamond is that it's linked to Abraham--destroy one, destroy the other.

But this is contradicted by her pointing out that Abraham needed to die for two reasons, one of which was to keep him from interfering the next time the Dewitchery Diamond was used.

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1 hour ago, EmpactWB said:

But this is contradicted by her pointing out that Abraham needed to die for two reasons, one of which was to keep him from interfering the next time the Dewitchery Diamond was used.

Yes, if she actually wanted it used again. I don't really see Pandora being that devious now that we know it was Voltaire who was manipulating Dex. What she seemed to have in mind was scaring Adrian; I don't think she thought he would be hurt so badly. Either that, or motherly instincts overruled all else, something not limited to mama bears defending their cubs.

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45 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Yes, if she actually wanted it used again. I don't really see Pandora being that devious now that we know it was Voltaire who was manipulating Dex. What she seemed to have in mind was scaring Adrian; I don't think she thought he would be hurt so badly. Either that, or motherly instincts overruled all else, something not limited to mama bears defending their cubs.

Pandora claimed it was a "lesson in mortality", but I wonder if she thought Adrian had Abraham under control until Abraham pulled out the fireball. Or maybe she knew Adrian wouldn't succeed but still felt she had to have Abraham killed for hurting him.

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3 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Yes, if she actually wanted it used again. I don't really see Pandora being that devious now that we know it was Voltaire who was manipulating Dex. What she seemed to have in mind was scaring Adrian; I don't think she thought he would be hurt so badly. Either that, or motherly instincts overruled all else, something not limited to mama bears defending their cubs.

I'm not following you. She said it was important to Magus's future revival, and we have it on good authority that she wants (or at least wanted) him free eventually. She described abandoning Magus after brutally shredding him as "a bit of a tantrum", so it's unlikely that she planned to abandon him at that point. I see no reason to infer that she was being dishonest. Indirect, certainly, but not deceitful.

I do agree that killing Abraham was always part of the plan, but her stated reasons are more than sufficient to justify it.

I'm not sure how the Dex incident ties into the statement about her deviousness.

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3 hours ago, EmpactWB said:

I do agree that killing Abraham was always part of the plan, but her stated reasons are more than sufficient to justify it.

I said it was a possibility, and it was justifiable. If Abraham was ready to kill Ellen, how many other innocents has he killed? He's pretty much the definition of a loose cannon. It seems that Nanase was quite capable of killing Abraham in her guardian form, a spell that Pandora essentially gave to her. Perhaps it surprised Pandora that Nanase didn't kill him, and that inspired her to try to use Magus to get Edward to do it.

I think it should also be noted that Pandora didn't kill Magus. But she could have.

And it now occurs to me why Voltaire would feel safe next to Tedd and Grace: He could think that Pandora won't use her full power on him when it might hurt or kill them.

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