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      Welcome!   03/05/2016

      Welcome, everyone, to the new 910CMX Community Forums. I'm still working on getting them running, so things may change.  If you're a 910 Comic creator and need your forum recreated, let me know and I'll get on it right away.  I'll do my best to make this new place as fun as the last one!
ProfessorTomoe

Story: Friday, Aug 12, 2016

60 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, Drasvin said:

Hmm, I wonder how well an Immortal would fair against a tank...

That depends on how vulnerable an Immortal would be to non-magical damage in general. Not only can an Immortal move to the Astral Plane almost whenever they want (barring the use of magic to prevent it), but it is unknown how much an Immortal's physical body can be damaged before they are "dead". They are probably not dependent on such things as oxygen and blood flow for survival, so any individual organ other than the brain (or wherever their soul attaches to their flesh) may be expendable. We have seen nothing so far to imply that Immortal flesh is more damage-resistant than human flesh when not protected magically. It may not be so much that an Immortal can not be cut, as it is that even cutting one to pieces is not lethal as long as the brain is intact (like how the Immortals in Highlander can survive and regenerate from anything that doesn't critically damage the brain/spine).

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To be honest, I suspect that Pandora is slightly oversimplifying. That is, there are two ways of being punished for breaking Immortal Law: 1. you know you broke it, and so every single immortal forces a reset. 2. one or more immortals find out what you did, and are powerful enough to force you to reset, so they attack you and force a reset. (oh, and I don't think Helena and Detrius were forcibly reset as a result of their actions in France regarding nanase and Susan, for a couple of reasons. one, they only empowered them, and guided them to the vampire. two, they were tackling an Aberration, and rules are far looser when Aberrations are involved- indeed, from what Sirleck has said- that it would be suicide trying to get the attention of Helena and Demetrius- combating an Aberration allows an Immortal to actually attack said Abberation themselves. ( which makes Helena and Demetrius even worse for getting Nanase and Susan involved: they could easily have dealt with the Abberation themselves. Legally speaking, they would almost certainly be guilty of Criminal Negligence- because- from a legal perspective- they couldn't be bothered to kill the Aberration themselves, they exposed two minors to lethal peril, and one of the minors was forced to kill what looked at the time to be a human being. Worse, they made no effort to help Susan with what was almost certainly major psychological damage ( specifically, I get the feeling she has either PTSD, Depression, or both from having to kill the aberration while it was in human form.)

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14 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Assuming they were actually reset due to breaking the rules with Nanase ... which I don't think was what happened. Quite the contrary - empowering Nanase and Susan and guiding them to the vampire was perfectly ok, but maybe they were reset because they changed mind and wanted to help more directly ...

 

15 hours ago, hkmaly said:

And on top of that, I think that if they were reset still in France, they wouldn't get to US to guard Elliot. No, they got to US FIRST and THEN they were reset, close enough to Elliot to remember they need to follow him.

Yeah, I'm thinking their reset has more to do with what ever mission that were on pertaining to Elliot. Although, maybe they were lured to France, they said they were following someone but they couldn't be sure if it was Nanase or Susan and it didn't make sense why they would have done so if they were suppose to be watching Elliot.

I'm wondering if they were faced with a choice of staying with Elliot or go to France and the act of going to France broke the rules or something.

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I've read quite a bit of speculation on why Helen and Demetrius got Susan involved in killing that vampire in France. One question hasn't come up: Why call in Susan when they were in Europe where Noriko is supposed to be. Noriko's supposed to be maybe the most bad-ass exterminator of vampires and evil wizards alive. If this vampire was so powerful that two Immortals weren't willing to take it on directly, why bring in two unawakened amateurs? And how does this connect with Elliot?

Try this one out: Part of Helen's and Demetrius' Master Plan before they reset and forgot was that they were going to make sure Eliot and Nanase got together and produced another generation of Noriko-grade aberration-stompers. Susan being along and buddied-up with Nanase wasn't something they foresaw. I'll give them a pass by postulating they didn't know that that vampire had the ability to sense potential vampire hunters; otherwise they could have been using Susan as bait.

Why not get Noriko instead? Why put her`niece in unnecessary danger? Other than sheer stupidity (always a good reason for any bad decision), the simplest explanation is that Noriko is dead.

What, Noriko is dead? You mean, Edward hasn't told Tedd? That's not like Edward...oh, right. But Adrian didn't tell Grace...which would have meant Grace would have told Tedd...hey, Adrian believes that he's the reason Noriko left Edward and Tedd and went off to Europe, where, presumably, she got killed. Can't reconcile after being killed.

All right, stretches. But there is one clue that just might support this wild speculation: when not-Tengu is chasing Angel-Nanase and Angel-Ellen, he threatens to kill all of Noriko's family: her ex-husband, her children, her sister...but not Noriko herself

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9 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

I've read quite a bit of speculation on why Helen and Demetrius got Susan involved in killing that vampire in France. One question hasn't come up: Why call in Susan when they were in Europe where Noriko is supposed to be. Noriko's supposed to be maybe the most bad-ass exterminator of vampires and evil wizards alive. If this vampire was so powerful that two Immortals weren't willing to take it on directly, why bring in two unawakened amateurs? And how does this connect with Elliot?

Try this one out: Part of Helen's and Demetrius' Master Plan before they reset and forgot was that they were going to make sure Eliot and Nanase got together and produced another generation of Noriko-grade aberration-stompers. Susan being along and buddied-up with Nanase wasn't something they foresaw. I'll give them a pass by postulating they didn't know that that vampire had the ability to sense potential vampire hunters; otherwise they could have been using Susan as bait.

Why not get Noriko instead? Why put her`niece in unnecessary danger? Other than sheer stupidity (always a good reason for any bad decision), the simplest explanation is that Noriko is dead.

What, Noriko is dead? You mean, Edward hasn't told Tedd? That's not like Edward...oh, right. But Adrian didn't tell Grace...which would have meant Grace would have told Tedd...hey, Adrian believes that he's the reason Noriko left Edward and Tedd and went off to Europe, where, presumably, she got killed. Can't reconcile after being killed.

All right, stretches. But there is one clue that just might support this wild speculation: when not-Tengu is chasing Angel-Nanase and Angel-Ellen, he threatens to kill all of Noriko's family: her ex-husband, her children, her sister...but not Noriko herself

I think Helena and Demetrius were acting at someone's request. I speculated before that maybe Helena and Demetrius were the friends that Edward was talking about 2 years prior to the comic starting. As to how they ended up needing to watch over Elliot and how they ended up going to France is even fuzzier but my guess was that Elliot wasn't the original mission, that Helena and Demetrius discovered something about him during their investigation for Edward but they were forced to reset before they could act. What they discovered about Elliot could have been the last thing they learned before the reset so it could have been the first thing they "recalled" after they came back but the fragmented memories were like "something something Elliot Dunkel something something France, something".

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I don't think so-or if she is dead, it is more recent than Not-Tengu. First, it's Adrian claiming reconciliation is impossible. however, it is in the context of explaining how it was his fault. I'm guessing that reconciliation is merely unlikely. Best guess is that Tedd gets his ability to obsess about one thing to the exclusion of everything else from Noriko, and she's obsessed with her career as a witch. Since Adrian encouraged her in her career as a witch- himself thinking that he, Edward and Noiko could be a powerful team fighting alongside each other- he blames himself for not encouraging her not to define herself solely by her career.

Frankly, I think that there will be a reconciliation at some point, since in a sense, I get the feeling she's too well-planned out as a character not to actually appear, and the logical way for that to happen would be a reconciliation.

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As long as you don't think you're breaking Immortal law, then you are not.

This reminds me of another great legal thinker.

 

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2 hours ago, sstabeler said:

Frankly, I think that there will be a reconciliation at some point, since in a sense, I get the feeling she's too well-planned out as a character not to actually appear, and the logical way for that to happen would be a reconciliation.

Yes, but having Noriko coming back into the story means having to explain herself—and her other kid(s) to Tedd—and why she hasn't even visited him or allowed him to visit her for many years. Since we know she has at least one other child, total commitment to her work is not an excuse. How is The Shive ever going to bring Noriko back into the story without portraying her as a total jerk? Maybe by the Disney option: Dead parents cause no unwanted plot complications. Haven't you noticed how many orphans there are in Disney movies?

This is not what I'm hoping for. I don't expect Edward and Noriko to reconcile, but I really want to see Tedd reconcile with his mother and meet his sibling(s).

May The Shive be with me.

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two possible ways:

1) she thought that it would endanger Tedd if she stuck around- let's face it, there's been one of her opponents that tried to attack Nanase despite her not being around, it's possible others would have attacked. Even if she was wrong, it makes it less jerkish.

2) it's done as something of a redemption plot, with her realising she shouldn't have left them behind, and trying to correct her mistake. ( by correct her mistake, I don't mean some massive gesture to show she's sorry- EGS is not a sitcom- but more along the lines of actually being there from now on.) That way, it's acknowledged that she was a jerk, but no longer is.

 

Frankly, I agree with you that Edward and Noriko don't need to reconcile, but in a sense, it's be good if either they do, or Edward finds someone else. The guy's been through a lot, and I think it's a little unfair he has to deal with it on his own. (that, and in some ways, I could see Edward finding Noriko having to deal with some of the shenanigans the EGS crew get up to amusing)

 

oh, and one more thing- I don't think she is necessarily totally committed to her work as much as her commitment to her career was what drove her and Edward apart. Basically, she concentrated on training her kids that actually could learn spells in future, rather than pay attention to Tedd. yes, it's jerkish, but in a sense, unless she has a very good reason, she was something of a jerk.

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18 minutes ago, sstabeler said:

unless she has a very good reason, she was something of a jerk

We don't have any evidence that she's not continuing to be a jerk. What's she doing, turning back alien invasions? Edward does that without abandoning his son.

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I'm predicting that there is going to be a "Brothers" arc coming up where Tedd gets to meet his brother, (which I still think is Noah).

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35 minutes ago, Xenophon Hendrix said:

I'm predicting that there is going to be a "Brothers" arc coming up where Tedd gets to meet his brother, (which I still think is Noah).

Nope. Noah's parents are dead, and Noah is about the same age as Tedd.

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18 hours ago, ijuin said:

It may not be so much that an Immortal can not be cut, as it is that even cutting one to pieces is not lethal as long as the brain is intact (like how the Immortals in Highlander can survive and regenerate from anything that doesn't critically damage the brain/spine).

Why do you think they need the brain intact? I think you can hurt them by cutting them to pieces, but you can't actually kill them without magic, even if you use nuclear weapons or whatever.

12 hours ago, sstabeler said:

2. one or more immortals find out what you did, and are powerful enough to force you to reset, so they attack you and force a reset.

While possible, this doesn't count as punishment and in fact the second immortal might be subject to the laws if he wouldn't be convinced he's not breaking them.

12 hours ago, sstabeler said:

from what Sirleck has said- that it would be suicide trying to get the attention of Helena and Demetrius- combating an Aberration allows an Immortal to actually attack said Abberation themselves.

Getting attention of immortals being suicide doesn't mean they can attack it directly. Although ... maybe getting their attention might be enough to trigger some "selfdefense" cause. In any case, I think that the vampire in Paris would flee if he would notice them (... of course, question is IF he would notice them)

12 hours ago, sstabeler said:

Worse, they made no effort to help Susan with what was almost certainly major psychological damage

While this is definitely extremely bad, note that Grace didn't get any professional help either despite being NO reasons for her not to - and Ellen even asked Edward to get her some counceling.

7 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Why call in Susan when they were in Europe where Noriko is supposed to be.

Europe isn't THAT small. There are lot of places in Europe which are more than several hours from Paris. (Not speaking about the "supposed to be" part. She may actually be somewhere else, or on move constantly.)

7 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Part of Helen's and Demetrius' Master Plan before they reset and forgot was that they were going to make sure Eliot and Nanase got together and produced another generation of Noriko-grade aberration-stompers.

This may still work, if Ellen and Nanase get Tedd's help with getting pregnant ...

7 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

But there is one clue that just might support this wild speculation: when not-Tengu is chasing Angel-Nanase and Angel-Ellen, he threatens to kill all of Noriko's family: her ex-husband, her children, her sister...but not Noriko herself.

Did it occurred to you that perhaps he wouldn't threaten Noriko herself because going against her directly would be suicide and he's sure of it? She already defeated him once.

7 hours ago, sstabeler said:

Frankly, I think that there will be a reconciliation at some point, since in a sense, I get the feeling she's too well-planned out as a character not to actually appear, and the logical way for that to happen would be a reconciliation.

Technically, the logical way would be ATTEMPT at reconciliation. It doesn't need to succeed.

3 hours ago, sstabeler said:

or Edward finds someone else.

He doesn't need to look so far.

 

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14 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

This may still work, if Ellen and Nanase get Tedd's help with getting pregnant ...

Yes. Gee, that would also kind of fit into the Master Plan, wouldn't it? Right genes, wrong sex? Create a female version!

BTW, I don't believe there's any appearances of Helen and Demetrius until after Ellen is created. Could it be that this is what forced them to reset?

23 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Did it occurred to you that perhaps he wouldn't threaten Noriko herself because going against her directly would be suicide and he's sure of it? She already defeated him once.

Yes, but I don't think it fits his jacked-up-look-at-how-clever-and-awesome-I-am behavior. Maybe he added "And then, when I've killed everyone Noriko ever loved, I'll kill her" while Nanase and Ellen were thinking to each other about how they couldn't hear over the WHOOSH! Maybe The Shive left a subtle clue. Or maybe The Shive couldn't fit more monologuing into the balloon and didn't want to draw another panel.

31 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Technically, the logical way would be ATTEMPT at reconciliation. It doesn't need to succeed.

Between Tedd and his mom, yes. The longer it's put off, the worse.

Thinking about it, we don't really know that there's been no contact between Tedd and his mom since the divorce. When he makes his rant about his mom not coming to visit even for Christmas, it's just before Christmas; she could have cancelled. Ted might even know about his sibling(s) but doesn't talk about him/her/them. And I can even think of a good time for him to finally bring them up: When Susan learns she's adopted. "Hey, I've got a sister/brother I've never/hardly ever seen."

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Why do you think they need the brain intact? I think you can hurt them by cutting them to pieces, but you can't actually kill them without magic, even if you use nuclear weapons or whatever.

Well, I did say "or wherever their soul attaches to their flesh"--whatever part of their body actually connects their spiritual essence to it. I'm sort of viewing their flesh bodies as "avatars" for their Astral selves--the idea that they are essentially Astral beings who create a body out of ordinary matter in order to interact with the material world. Under such a scenario, damaging an Immortal's flesh-body won't harm the Astral-self beyond the unpleasant sensations of the injuries, but if the body is damaged beyond the point where it is easily repaired, then it will have to be replaced (which may take enough effort or time that the Immortal can not simply respawn fast enough to return to a battle-in-progress).

Europe isn't THAT small. There are lot of places in Europe which are more than several hours from Paris. (Not speaking about the "supposed to be" part. She may actually be somewhere else, or on move constantly.)

Europe west of Russia is roughly comparable in size to the Lower 48 States of the USA. France is slightly smaller than Texas. Even within France, it's possible to be most of a day's driving distance away from Paris, and nowhere have we heard that Noriko was in France specifically at the time that Susan and Nanase were on their class trip.

Anyway, I think that the point of what Helena and Demetrius did was more about "getting an excuse to empower Nanase and Susan" than it was about getting that particular Aberration killed.

d

 

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4 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Nope. Noah's parents are dead, and Noah is about the same age as Tedd.

Noah is a greater chimera. He was created in an Uryuom egg, and I think one of his gene donors was Noriko. He could be almost a year younger than Tedd and still be in the same grade, and when he told Elliot his parents were dead, he could have been referring to his custodial parents.

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5 hours ago, Xenophon Hendrix said:

Noah is a greater chimera. He was created in an Uryuom egg, and I think one of his gene donors was Noriko. He could be almost a year younger than Tedd and still be in the same grade, and when he told Elliot his parents were dead, he could have been referring to his custodial parents.

Actually, Noah's main biological parent is the Demonic Duck. :demonicduck:

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13 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

Actually, Noah's main biological parent is the Demonic Duck. :demonicduck:

Who, of course is an elder god.  It all makes sense now.

:P

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7 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

 

Between Tedd and his mom, yes. The longer it's put off, the worse.

Thinking about it, we don't really know that there's been no contact between Tedd and his mom since the divorce. When he makes his rant about his mom not coming to visit even for Christmas, it's just before Christmas; she could have cancelled. Ted might even know about his sibling(s) but doesn't talk about him/her/them. And I can even think of a good time for him to finally bring them up: When Susan learns she's adopted. "Hey, I've got a sister/brother I've never/hardly ever seen."

I agree that there needs to be a reconciliation between Tedd nd Noriko, however, I disagree that there should not be some form of reconciliation with Noriko and Edward. Possibly not in the sense of ending up remarried, but at least to the point they are friends. ( possibly Noriko moving to Moperville to be able to help look after Tedd. After all, in some ways, If Tedd had access to her, it could be extremely useful for his research. (off the top of my head, she could help him create a version of the watches that actually helps meet the power requirements of the spell, instead of merely giving access to the spell. Since the energy clog thats been empowering the town is going, then the watches will be all but impossible to use for Tedd and Sarah soon unless Sarah develops enough of her own power to use them soon. ( actually, I wonder if that would spur her into asking one of the crew that know Anime-Style Martial Arts for training, so that she can develop more of her own magical power? I know Pandora sad she needed to use her spell to get power, but that's not the only way. ( that, and frankly, I suspect Pandora of lying that Sarah can only use the power due to the energy clog, of if she isn't, then Pandora is perfectly capable of empowering her to. For that matter, I only trust what Pandora said in that conversation in regards what her power is, and that Pandora is the source of them, since we have seen evidence of that. There's been no evidence of the rest of what she said being true.))

 

That, and I think there should be an element of reconciliation between Noriko and her sister, even if only because I suspect that the...strict...upbringing Nanase has been through if due to Noriko abandoning Tedd and Edward. ( for that matter- and this is admittedly probably not the case- since it's been remarked in canon that Nanase is particularly obviously related to Tedd when her hair is similar length to his, I wonder if Nanase is actually Tedd's fraternal twin sister and her- apparent- mother acts like she does partly out of Dursley-style resentment of being forced to look after her- Edward being only able to look after one kid to explain why they were split up. It would explain why Mrs Kitsune is so irritated with Noriko that she denies she even has a sister, and why she is concerned about Tedd's safety- it's partly " he can't defend himself against magical threats" and partly from how Noriko leaving apparently almost destroyed Tedd. ( another reason why Noriko at least used to be a jerk.)

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Noah seemed pretty clear that his parents were dead.

But if Noah IS a greater chimera, it is possible that the family who raised him was not the exclusive, or even primary, source of his genetic material.

In other words, Noah's parents are dead.  Noah could be a genetic descendant of almost anyone.  All men are mortal.  Socrates was a man.  Therefore Noah is Socrates.

I may have overlooked a necessary step in that logical deduction.

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Someone in the old forum came up with the brilliant suggestion that Mrs. Kitsune is burned out. This fits in beautifully with what we know about her family history. We know that they are a long line of monster hunters. She could have been one herself before she burned out and decided to have a couple kids to carry on the family line.

I think her rearing of Nanase has been done with great skill and malice aforethought. Nanase is fluent in three languages. She is in Raven's class. She has studied magically potent martial arts for years. Nanase remarked that she actually is given a great deal of freedom as long as she keeps up with her schoolwork. She even has been given rinky dink stuff to rebel against that is important to teenagers but trivial in the long run: clothing, "you're going to be a housewife and mother."

I even think the whole housewife-and-mother thing has a dual purpose of letting Nanase know that she doesn't have to go into the family business.

Note that Mrs. Kitsune is fully aware that Ellen and Nanase have been looking of mysteries to solve and monsters to hunt.

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My take on Mrs. Kitsune is that she is really, really, really angry with her sister Noriko for deserting Tedd. I think Mrs. Kitsune knows about Noriko's other child/children and that makes her even angrier; Mrs. Kitsune has two children and would fight dragons to keep them (and, I suspect, she would win.)

I can think of another reason: Mrs. Kitsune could have been in love with Edward, but Edward married Noriko. Having a husband that never seems to talk at all might have been a better match for Mrs. Kitsune, but as is canon in the Moperverse (and quite possibly in our own) "Love is not logical." Having her sister marry the man Mrs. Kitsune really wanted and then throw him away would explain a lot about how she's raised Nanase.

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I'm pretty sure Noah has "prehensile tendrils" coming out the back of his head and wears a long girls hair style to disguise them.  He reminds me of the drummer boy from Ellen's other memories.  He sought revenge against Damien for the death of his parents which makes me suspect they worked in the lab where Damien was created, and Damien was created in the image of a prophecy mostly believed by chimeras.  I'm pretty confident he's the child of chimeras and that Damien missed him (a child left behind).

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26 minutes ago, JustBecauseICantDraw said:

 I'm pretty confident he's the child of chimeras and that Damien missed him (a child left behind).

A possibility well worth considering, but if Noah had antennae hidden in his hair, wouldn't his extra senses identified Grace as a chimera earlier? It takes Noah quite awhile to catch on to Grace as the "woman of grace."

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21 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:
22 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Did it occurred to you that perhaps he wouldn't threaten Noriko herself because going against her directly would be suicide and he's sure of it? She already defeated him once.

Yes, but I don't think it fits his jacked-up-look-at-how-clever-and-awesome-I-am behavior. Maybe he added "And then, when I've killed everyone Noriko ever loved, I'll kill her" while Nanase and Ellen were thinking to each other about how they couldn't hear over the WHOOSH! Maybe The Shive left a subtle clue. Or maybe The Shive couldn't fit more monologuing into the balloon and didn't want to draw another panel.

The "Didn't fit more monologuing" is most likely. The image is fantastic, it would be pity if more of it would be obscured. And if not-Tengu would monologue for several pages, it would be totally in character but also the comics would feel slow.

19 hours ago, ijuin said:

but if the body is damaged beyond the point where it is easily repaired, then it will have to be replaced (which may take enough effort or time that the Immortal can not simply respawn fast enough to return to a battle-in-progress).

Well, putting the body together or recreating it fast enough might be hard. But it won't actually kill them.

12 hours ago, sstabeler said:

actually, I wonder if that would spur her into asking one of the crew that know Anime-Style Martial Arts for training, so that she can develop more of her own magical power? I know Pandora sad she needed to use her spell to get power, but that's not the only way. ( that, and frankly, I suspect Pandora of lying that Sarah can only use the power due to the energy clog, of if she isn't, then Pandora is perfectly capable of empowering her to.

Training the Anime-Style Martial Arts would help, but will likely take years to get her to awakening. Using her spell is presumably faster.

Regarding Pandora lying, remember how we speculated if immortals can lie? We found out they can, but nevertheless, the whole dialogue feels like Pandora trying to lie by omission and by making incorrect impression but not lying directly. Maybe she was not allowed to because it counted as explaining the spell (there ARE some rules about explaining the spell she found the loophole of explaining it without the marked person hearing her). Maybe she was just doing it for sport. But I think she didn't lie directly.

4 hours ago, Xenophon Hendrix said:

Someone in the old forum came up with the brilliant suggestion that Mrs. Kitsune is burned out. This fits in beautifully with what we know about her family history. We know that they are a long line of monster hunters. She could have been one herself before she burned out and decided to have a couple kids to carry on the family line.

While her burning out might've occurred, remember that burning out is usually temporary. It's unlikely she was burned out for 18 years. It's more likely she just decided to stop using magic. For the same reason she's saying she don't have any sister.

4 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Mrs. Kitsune has two children and would fight dragons to keep them (and, I suspect, she would win.)

... hey that's actually good idea how to make her return to monster hunting ...

... on the other hand, while we're not sure how powerful dragons in EGS are (we only saw one in background behind Pandora; the bulldog dragon summon doesn't count), I would think Tara is more powerful than Mrs. Kitsune.

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:
1 hour ago, JustBecauseICantDraw said:

 I'm pretty confident he's the child of chimeras and that Damien missed him (a child left behind).

A possibility well worth considering, but if Noah had antennae hidden in his hair, wouldn't his extra senses identified Grace as a chimera earlier? It takes Noah quite awhile to catch on to Grace as the "woman of grace."

Remember that he suppressed his uryuom abilities to learn Earth magic. (Well ... he MUST have if he's chimera.)

 

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