np NP, Friday August 19, 2016

[Don Edwards 548]

You know, it's possible for an immortal to have personal ethics that are more restrictive than immortal law... maybe in that situation some other immortals could have marked Sarah, but Jerry's personal ethics barred him from doing so.

When you think about it, not many of Pandora's marks have given a new ability to magically do visible things to other people. Rhoda's might be the only one we know of so far. (Tedd's mark gave him a limited duplicate of the TFG - nothing new.) What would be her incentive to give Ashley a transform-other-people spell? Entertainment? But if Ashley's too 'good' to actually go on a transformation spree, there's no entertainment value.

[ijuin 572]

I think that Pandora already said that giving people transformation spells would help to make magic much more visible in public, which presumably would help to convince the remaining skeptics that yes, magic is a real thing and not a hoax. She is hoping to see people get transformed (or be in a transformed state) in front of witnesses.

[hkmaly 490]

2 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

You know, it's possible for an immortal to have personal ethics that are more restrictive than immortal law... maybe in that situation some other immortals could have marked Sarah, but Jerry's personal ethics barred him from doing so.

4 hours ago, Drasvin said:

No, Jerry didn't mark Sarah not because he didn't want to, but because he couldn't. He stated, on the page you linked, "You've realized things that negate what would have allowed me to give you the spell in the first place."

While it's possible for immortal to have personal ethics more restrictive that the law - in fact, Jerry is example of it, as he considered what Demetrius and Helena did as bad despite it being in accordance with the law - this is not the case.

The limits of what can immortals mark people with are part of MAGIC rules. The ones which might get reset soon. Immortals can't break them.

(Apparently, there are three sets of laws in EGS main universe: physical laws, magic laws and immortal laws. And maybe Uryuom "technically magic" laws.)

[Drachefly 30]

I'm not very happy with the wording Pandora used. It doesn't flow well. I'd have just said, "darn it, her conscience is strong enough to interfere - I can't give her any of them." A core of inner goodness seems a bit over-the-top. Ah well, not a big deal.

 

ETA: it seems like Dan is trying to take "ashley could be bad?" and hit it with a giant hammer when a screwdriver tightening would have done.

[Tom Sewell 268]

On 8/20/2016 at 3:29 PM, Don Edwards said:

What would be her incentive to give Ashley a transform-other-people spell? Entertainment?

Pandora lists six reasons Ashley would like to transform people:

1. Irony
2. Comedy
3. New experiences
4. Lesson teaching
5. Complete randomness
6. Pure fetish (could it be "big boobs"?)

And Pandora finishes with "and more!"

Pandora knows Ashley will feel guilty once she realizes she's been transforming people against their will, and will likely stop transforming people. Or she may decide to give Ashley a spell that suits her goodness better, like giving Good Tom a spell for sensing puppies in danger.

If this wasn't set in the past, I'd expect that in the next strip Pandora would tell herself: "Screw it, I'll never find a better transformer." But if Ashley started transforming people two months or so ago, it would have been in the news, even if Ashley wasn't identified, and even if Ashley didn't know she was doing it. Plus, Bad Tom would be a toad.As for Pandora's incentive, she stated it quite clearly: Transformations are the magic most likely to be noticed by normal people.

(This, of course, excludes everyone at the card tournament except for Grace.) A spell to transform others means more transformations than spells to transform the casters.

Like this post if you want to see Bad Tom turned into a toad.

[Scotty 1,061]

1 hour ago, Drachefly said:

... seems a bit over-the-top.

This is Pandora you're talking about, remember?

Besides, it's not EGS if someone doesn't make reference to a person's core every now and then.

[mlooney 3,417]

Quote

Like this post if you want to see Bad Tom turned into a toad.

And what have female toads done to you to make you want to do that to them?  I mean, really, isn't being a toad bad enough with out asshole male toads showing up?

[Tom Sewell 268]

5 minutes ago, mlooney said:

And what have female toads done to you to make you want to do that to them?  I mean, really, isn't being a toad bad enough with out asshole male toads showing up?

Male toads and frogs don't have penises, something Miss Piggy apparently didn't discover until her wedding night.

[PSadlon 88]

I wonder what would happen if Pandora found out this girl ended up with Elliot, the one person capable of granting her fantasies in a way that doesn't conflict with that core of goodness.

[Tom Sewell 268]

4 minutes ago, PSadlon said:

I wonder what would happen if Pandora found out this girl ended up with Elliot, the one person capable of granting her fantasies in a way that doesn't conflict with that core of goodness.

Gee, you think maybe Pandora gave her a spell to help her find that one person?

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Like this post if you want to see Bad Tom turned into a toad.

 

1 hour ago, mlooney said:

And what have female toads done to you to make you want to do that to them?  I mean, really, isn't being a toad bad enough with out asshole male toads showing up?

Furthermore, why must amphibian transformation always be viewed as a bad thing?

For example, Salamanders MUST have something going for them if their name was also claimed by beings of pure fire and the best kitchen appliance in any good steak house.

[PSadlon 88]

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Gee, you think maybe Pandora gave her a spell to help her find that one person?

It would be awesome but I doubt even Pandora would have put those factors together that well.

[hkmaly 490]

3 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Pandora knows Ashley will feel guilty once she realizes she's been transforming people against their will, and will likely stop transforming people. Or she may decide to give Ashley a spell that suits her goodness better, like giving Good Tom a spell for sensing puppies in danger.

If this wasn't set in the past, I'd expect that in the next strip Pandora would tell herself: "Screw it, I'll never find a better transformer."

Pandora literally CAN'T mark Ashley.

2 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

2 hours ago, PSadlon said:

I wonder what would happen if Pandora found out this girl ended up with Elliot, the one person capable of granting her fantasies in a way that doesn't conflict with that core of goodness.

Gee, you think maybe Pandora gave her a spell to help her find that one person?

1) One?

2) Spell?

If Pandora's motivation would be helping Ashley fulfil her fantasies (which it wasn't), helping her contact main 8 would certainly be good idea - and might not even require any spell.

1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Furthermore, why must amphibian transformation always be viewed as a bad thing?

Tradition.

Also, might have something to do with fact that there are some toads that may really seem to speak and change shape if you kiss them.

[ijuin 572]

All hail Hypnotoad!

[Tom Sewell 268]

13 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Pandora literally CAN'T mark Ashley.

Pandora's words in this strip are "I can't actually give her any of them." "Them" could mean any spells at all, or it could mean spells about transforming others.

And "can't" can also be read ambiguously. Does it mean it's impossible for Pandora to mark Ashley because it's a violation of Immortal law? Because it's the way Magic Itself has set up how giving marks to mortals works? Or because Pandora can't bear to do something that will have really bad consequences for a good person?

[ijuin 572]

I think it's a matter of "Ashley's conscience is so strong that it would block her from being able to cast such a spell even if Pandora unlocked all of the magical barriers to it".

[hkmaly 490]

7 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

21 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Pandora literally CAN'T mark Ashley.

Pandora's words in this strip are "I can't actually give her any of them." "Them" could mean any spells at all, or it could mean spells about transforming others.

True ; she may still be able to mark her with someone else. At least technically - she may not have any other desire strong enough but if she would, she would be markable with that.

7 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

And "can't" can also be read ambiguously. Does it mean it's impossible for Pandora to mark Ashley because it's a violation of Immortal law? Because it's the way Magic Itself has set up how giving marks to mortals works? Or because Pandora can't bear to do something that will have really bad consequences for a good person?

Not only I think it's the second one, I also think it would be weird formulation for the third one AND seriously Pandora having issues with that? I'm sure she would be able to bear it without problems.

Also, look at commentary: "... that creates a conflict great enough to get in the way of giving her spells via magic marking." Notice this sentence makes no reference to Pandora at all. It will GENERALLY get in the way.

7 hours ago, ijuin said:

block her from being able to cast such a spell

... get in the way of MARKING. She won't even HAVE the spell to cast.