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Scotty

STORY: Wednesday March 9, 2016

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I had assumed that Nanase would have tried to focus on both Elliot and Cheerleadra, but it seems clear that she didn't think to do so in her panic over it not working on just Elliot.

The majority of the guesses were rather elaborate though ranging from she hadn't properly met or been around cheerleadra long enough for it to count, to various forms of interference. Goes to show that the reasons for something could be very simple. :)

This would also answer the question that Elliot's alternate IDs, and quite possibly his many female forms, could also count as separate people, which Elliot would have to remember this detail considering his female forms could be anything.

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Weird, I was always of the impression Nanase only had to have one of the prerequisites to summon a fairy doll, not both. Must have misread something when I read the archives (Like 6 times Gurmblr Grumgle...)

 

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59 minutes ago, PSadlon said:

Regarding Ashley... Clever Girl

 

31 minutes ago, Sjmcc13 said:

Wrong weird Asian girl...

Were the giant velociraptors asian?  I thought they'd only been found that big in Utah.

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Nanase knows that enough of a change on her end produces a new fairy doll instead of re-inhabiting an old one. It isn't much of a stretch to posit that enough of a change on the other end would prevent the doll from arriving. 
That being said, I can see her not making that connection. Not thinking it through at crunch time is not an uncommon failing.

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Hunendora said:

Nanase knows that enough of a change on her end produces a new fairy doll instead of re-inhabiting an old one. It isn't much of a stretch to posit that enough of a change on the other end would prevent the doll from arriving. 
That being said, I can see her not making that connection. Not thinking it through at crunch time is not an uncommon failing.

This isn't even a matter of not thinking things through; that implies that there is only one direction to think in.  We've demonstrated right here that there were many, many ways to interpret the situation.  She may have thought it through, even thought it through several times, and just not happened to have hit upon the right answer.

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2 hours ago, SeriousJupiter said:

Ah, I love it when smart characters miss the obvious answers. It's always amusing to see their reactions when someone else points it out for them. :D

Sometimes it is just the sheer lack of clarity/strictness of technicality.

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2 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Were the giant velociraptors asian?  I thought they'd only been found that big in Utah.

Utahraptor is a different genus than Velociraptor. Additionally, Dromaesaurines (Deinonychus and Utahraptor, among others) are a different branch than Velociraptorines.

So, being a bit pedantic, there are no giant Velociraptors, Asian or no. The little guys were about the size of a German Shepard. Would come up just above the average human male's knee if it was standing normally. (Though including tail would be roughly 2m long). :) But if you were speaking of Utahraptor, then yes, those guys are "American" (for values of American that mean "fossils found in modern America" :P). These guys were big, unlike Velociraptor. Standing normally they'd be taller than the average human, and including tail would be roughly 7m long. About the size of a Polar Bear. Another "American" raptor was Deinonychus, the closest thing we know of to Jurassic Park's Velociraptor in size.

I believe that all Velociraptors have been Asian, though, with the majority of them being found in Mongolia.

Additionally, Dromaesaurines, like Velociraptorines, were almost certainly feathered creatures. We have confirmation of such in Velociraptors, and strong strong evidence for the others in these groups.

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2 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
3 hours ago, Sjmcc13 said:

Wrong weird Asian girl...

Were the giant velociraptors asian?  I thought they'd only been found that big in Utah.


I believe that @Sjmcc13 may be referring to Dina in Dumbing of Age, specifically this comic. :)

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2 hours ago, SeriousJupiter said:

Ah, I love it when smart characters miss the obvious answers. It's always amusing to see their reactions when someone else points it out for them. :D

Without any equipment, we were trying to lower an old upright piano on casters about four feet from the stage to the house floor.  The suggestions for how we should proceed just kept getting wilder.  And we could not risk damaging the instrument.

Finally, some kid pointed out that the stage door opened directly to an alley with no steps.  The alley sloped to the sidewalk with no steps.  The theatre lobby door opened to the sidewalk with no steps.  There were no steps from the lobby into the house.  And the aisle in the house from the lobby door to the stage had no steps.

I think my expression was very similar to that of Nanase in the last panel.

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5 hours ago, Scotty said:

I had assumed that Nanase would have tried to focus on both Elliot and Cheerleadra, but it seems clear that she didn't think to do so in her panic over it not working on just Elliot.

The majority of the guesses were rather elaborate though ranging from she hadn't properly met or been around cheerleadra long enough for it to count, to various forms of interference. Goes to show that the reasons for something could be very simple. :)

... yup. Feels little as being cheated ... but on the other hand, yes, she hadn't exactly enough time and calm to thing it through, and simple answers are often overlooked.

5 hours ago, Scotty said:

This would also answer the question that Elliot's alternate IDs, and quite possibly his many female forms, could also count as separate people, which Elliot would have to remember this detail considering his female forms could be anything.

Alternate IDs, extremely likely. Female forms, hard to say. It's also possible all Elliot's female forms count as one but different from "normal" Elliot.

(The comment suggests that Cheerleadra is somehow special in this regard ...)

4 hours ago, Hunendora said:

Nanase knows that enough of a change on her end produces a new fairy doll instead of re-inhabiting an old one. It isn't much of a stretch to posit that enough of a change on the other end would prevent the doll from arriving. 
That being said, I can see her not making that connection. Not thinking it through at crunch time is not an uncommon failing.

Only way to know if the necessary difference on one end are the same as on the other end is to test it. Back at the birthday party, she tried Ellen, the only one not transformed, and she didn't tried Susan when Susan was transformed, so ...

4 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

This isn't even a matter of not thinking things through; that implies that there is only one direction to think in.  We've demonstrated right here that there were many, many ways to interpret the situation.  She may have thought it through, even thought it through several times, and just not happened to have hit upon the right answer.

Multiple explanations, but not so many directions.

Our information about situation are not the same as Nanase had. For one, we knew Elliot is not dead. On the other hand, we knew about Immortals being present, which Nanase didn't. She DID know about griffin, so she COULD think about the possibility of interference ...

The main difference however is that Nanase have option we don't: she could test things. Although testing the "interference" hypothesis would be hard without other possible targets near ...

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:
7 hours ago, Scotty said:

This would also answer the question that Elliot's alternate IDs, and quite possibly his many female forms, could also count as separate people, which Elliot would have to remember this detail considering his female forms could be anything.

Alternate IDs, extremely likely. Female forms, hard to say. It's also possible all Elliot's female forms count as one but different from "normal" Elliot.

(The comment suggests that Cheerleadra is somehow special in this regard ...)

It's possible that all of Elliot's female morphs count as 1 spell and all Nanase would have to do is focus on the fact that Elliot would be female rather than trying to picture what Elliot looks like but I guess that's what's unclear about Nanase's fairy doll spell, does she have to picture the target, or just think of the target's name?

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I suspect, but have no proof, that each alternate identity counts as a separate person.  My only reason is that it makes sense since these are supposed to be secret identities - their whole purpose is to disguise him.

If he ever wanted to hide from a magic user this ability could be handy.  I wonder though...if he spent too much time as, say, Heidi, would that personality start to become dominant?

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59 minutes ago, Circe said:

 I wonder though...if he spent too much time as, say, Heidi, would that personality start to become dominant?

I think she is likely habit forming...

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1 hour ago, Circe said:

I suspect, but have no proof, that each alternate identity counts as a separate person.  My only reason is that it makes sense since these are supposed to be secret identities - their whole purpose is to disguise him.

If he ever wanted to hide from a magic user this ability could be handy.  I wonder though...if he spent too much time as, say, Heidi, would that personality start to become dominant?

He seems to transition personalities pretty quickly though, so I don't really think that bleed through is a real danger. The wrinkle is that each personality, though, might not want to switch. Lust-for-life Heidi may not want to turn into stick-in-the-mud Elliot. Though I don't think they're so much separate personalities but different facets of Elliot's core personality, with different traits emphasized or diminished as needed.

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The spell itself does seem to have safeguards to prevent a complete personality takeover, as Edward pointed out, the spell alter's the caster's behaviour while leaving them aware of of the changes and able to break character. So the only real danger of Elliot fully becoming Heidi is dependent on Elliot deciding he'd rather stay like Heidi and not the Heidi personality asserting dominance. It'd basically be the same as Ellen deciding to be Ellen rather than just a female Elliot, well...except Ellen didn't have the help of magic to create a non-stick-in-the-mud personality...well maybe she did? I guess it could be argued that the diamond creating her was magical help considering she pretty much started being less like Elliot from the moment she was born, trying to do things he wouldn't normally do to get him in trouble would be the start of Ellen being more impulsive.

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40 minutes ago, Stature said:

If Elliot's and his alter-egos' personalities are put in a Venn diagram, nothing might even intersect.

I strongly doubt that. To me it seems much more likely that they are all built on the same foundation. Elliot's core traits consist of: honesty, empathy and protectiveness. Heidi, Mildred and Gothica would be just as likely to take a bullet for a friend as Elliot himself would be. After all, Elliot is a defender and the whole reason he got a superhero spell is because he dreamed of defending and protecting people.

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