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Stature

Story Monday August 29, 2016

100 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Vorlonagent said:

There's something weird here.  Susan was not adopted but Diane is.  So Separated at birth for some reason.  But you'd expect with a birth separation the Pompoms would keep the older twin if they were going to keep one, and they didn't.

WHY would they want to keep older twin?

1 hour ago, Vorlonagent said:

which points straight at The Other Woman in some way

She's more and more suspicious, yes ...

55 minutes ago, Xenophon Hendrix said:

As for the Dewitchery Diamond, that thing requires a curse. What could it be, and how would an infant acquire one?

Didn't needed to be infant, technically ... we are not sure how old was Diane when adopted (sure, less than six). And if there was some werewolf ...

25 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

It also requires Susan be capable of passing on the curse. 

Susan is baby #2, therefore the likely duplicate.  But Susan has no accidental cursing in her known past.  Diane doesn't have much past revealed for her, but there are no accidentally-cast curses in her past either,.

... this is worse problem. Still, dewitchery diamond or similar MAGIC artifact makes more sense than something like TF Gun.

32 minutes ago, Gamma Emerald said:

Why? Think who taught Edward. I'm certain there's a reason he's covering this up. And Edward made no promises about misinformation to Nanase.

He technically didn't, BUT the reason why he said he will not misinform Tedd holds for Nanase as well: she's too deep for that to be safe for anyone. Even small white lie might be dangerous when magic is involved.

On the other hand, this didn't stopped him from lying about Noriko AND asking Nanase to lie about Noriko. So, maybe he only meant it related to "technical" informations and not personal one.

 

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:
12 hours ago, Scotty said:

There's gotta be more to it than this. The people involved at Diane and Susan's birth might have been just as if not more thorough at covering up the girl's origins than Edward's checks. Maybe Mrs Pompoms is pulling a Mama Kitsune on us?

Simplest answer. Not most probable, but simplest, despite making fake records good enough to fool DGB would be hard.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:
12 hours ago, Scotty said:

maybe Mr Pompoms got them both pregnant at some wild party on night and Mrs Pompom's sister never came forward with it? Or maybe she did and Mrs Pompoms knows, wait, I've heard this story before.

If Mrs Pompoms and her sister are twins, that MIGHT work. But note that in this case, Edward MIGHT notice that in his background checks ...

Yeah, I'd expect it would be hard, but not impossible, other agencies could exist, or just the families involved had the resources and influence to make it happen.

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In this world, my next question would be whether IVF was involved in Susan's conception.  If so, it would be possible that either an embryo was deliberately split, or that one had divided naturally, and someone else was implanted with Susan's twin, with or without her mother's knowledge.

In the EGS world, there is at least one magical means of creating an (almost) exact duplicate of a person, and there is at least one way for someone to move between parallel worlds, perhaps including someone who is a duplicate of a person here.  It seems like it would be unusual for such "duplicates" to be so exact a copy, though, given the many versions of Elliot we've seen (or suspected) so far.  It seems likely that there are even more means of achieving either one of these besides the ways we've already seen.

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Didn't needed to be infant, technically ... we are not sure how old was Diane when adopted (sure, less than six). And if there was some werewolf ...

 

Since Diane did not know prior to age six that she was adopted, then it almost certainly happened before her earliest conscious memories--probably by the time she was three, at oldest.

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I also think that the information about Susan and Diane is different, mainly because them being the offspring of an elf would be... I don't know what that would be, but there's surely reason to hide that information.

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44 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

In this world, my next question would be whether IVF was involved in Susan's conception.  If so, it would be possible that either an embryo was deliberately split, or that one had divided naturally, and someone else was implanted with Susan's twin, with or without her mother's knowledge.

That is a very good question.

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The IVF argument (or any similar "came from a single fertilized ovum" argument) seems too much like having them be twins in every way that matters genetically and philosophically, while making them "technically not twins". I sincerely doubt that Dan is going to have the plot be hung up on such a technicality. Susan and Diane are connected, but not in the normal identical-twins sense.

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Some thoughts on the possibility of the Dewitching Diamond being the cause of this, as mentioned by a few people here:

  • If this is the case, their birth times aren't necessarily going to be informative of which is the original and which is the duplicate, since duplicates aren't really "born", and whoever decided their official birth time isn't necessarily going to care about that. (This could also apply to other supernatural explanations—someone like Edward could have chosen a fake birthday/time to make it look like they were twins.)
  • There are two different possible ways the diamond could produce a copy of something: either Susan or Diane touched the diamond (problem: what is the curse?), OR someone could have used a Susan/Diane clone form and then touched the diamond (problem: how do we account for the magic affinity?). It's also possible that BOTH of them are duplicates made by the diamond, but then you'd have to account for the hospital records somehow.
  • One of them, of course, would need to be able to spread the curse. Diane was shown in the Q&A as an example of someone who's "sleeping", and Susan has a spellbook (which Jerry has also seen) and therefore would presumably know about it. (Unless "being summoned" is a curse, and they spread the curse by summoning things? But I don't think the ability would be an affinity, then.)
  • If they were made by the diamond, then Abraham would probably know about them—but he's said that the diamond's spawn have always been monsters!

My guess would be, if they're not twins, then alternate-universe (or alternate-half-universe) counterparts; we know such counterparts exist (though we don't yet know if counterparts exist in the other half or just in completely separate universes), and an alternate half-universe has been relevant recently (griffins) and Magus is likely to be relevant soonish and I think he's from an alternate universe, too; plus, alternate-universes seems most plausible to me of the supernatural explanations that I can think of in terms of "why would someone do this?".

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15 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

But remember that Jerry said that Diane was Susan's long-lost sister. Immortals can lie, but I don't think they lie to themselves very often.

So my current bet is on Edward not being infallible after all, or Edward lying because he believes it's the right thing to do.

Technically, Edward could still be correct and truthful without contradicting Jerry or implying any magical shenanigans going on if Diane is Susan's half-sister. Which is a distinct possibility given what we know about Susan's father, and two persons being born hours apart isn't that crazy of a coincidence.

Occam's Razor points to this explanation, as it is simplest and most mundane. But this is EGS we're talking about.

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Just now, chridd said:

If they were made by the diamond, then Abraham would probably know about them—but he's said that the diamond's spawn have always been monsters!

Abraham apparently remained in stone until the diamond's use triggers his release, which would mean that if the diamond was used years before on Diane to produce Susan (remember, Diane is 20 minutes older than Susan) Abraham would have gone after Susan when she was still a baby. It was clear by his amazement at there being multiple high schools in Moperville that he's been stoned for at least a few centuries.

Just now, chridd said:

My guess would be, if they're not twins, then alternate-universe (or alternate-half-universe) counterparts; we know such counterparts exist (though we don't yet know if counterparts exist in the other half or just in completely separate universes), and an alternate half-universe has been relevant recently (griffins) and Magus is likely to be relevant soonish and I think he's from an alternate universe, too; plus, alternate-universes seems most plausible to me of the supernatural explanations that I can think of in terms of "why would someone do this?".

We haven't really seen any evidence that alternates exist in the other half of the world or if the populations in each half are completely separate. I would be more inclined to believe that Diane's from Lord Tedd's universe and that at one point Diane's mom fled to this universe when Diane was still a baby or maybe she was still pregnant when she came over and immediately went into labour and perished shortly after giving birth, leaving Diane orphaned.

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is there any reason why people are speculating about Edward being either wrong, or there being Dewitchery Diamond shenanigans when there is a far simpler explanation? They aren't twins because they were born to two different mothers. Susan's father is already known to have cheated on her mother. We don't know how long he cheated on her for- or if he had cheated on her with different people before. Simple explanation- Susan and Diane are half-siblings due to being born to different mothers. Susan lives with her mother, Diane lives with her mother- possibly her father too, but I doubt it. ( in other words, Diane is the kid of Susan's father with the woman he cheated on Susan's mother with)

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To paraphrase Sarah, "I have discounted that theory as being 'boring'." :D

(Does anybody recall the page of the original quote?)

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Umm, I'm still going for Edward being misinformed or covering up. Hospital records can be modified using a cutting-edge technology known as "bribery." There have been only two characters in EGS who've been shown as wealthy, Susan's mom and Sirleck.

I'm just saying it's a possibility. If I go on further with the bribery theory without anything to back it up, I'm going to sound like a birther.

I sincerely hope that The Shive isn't going to pull a Lucas here. Leia wasn't supposed to be Luke's sister, and even after the "I am your father" twist in Empire, Leia didn't have to be Luke's sister. So why did Leia become Luke's sister in Return? Here's a plausible theory: Harrison Ford is sexier than Marc Hamill. Empire established a serious romance between Leia and Han. How to resolve that conflict? Make Leia and Luke siblings so everything is all sugary-sweet at the end. Ford wanted to kill off Han at the end, but he had to wait for seven more movies and suffer through the Han shot second revision.

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3 hours ago, sstabeler said:

Simple explanation- Susan and Diane are half-siblings due to being born to different mothers.

That wouldn't explain them being identical, though.  Too identical to be fraternal implies too identical to be half-siblings, even if (as someone else suggested) Susan's mom has an identical twin.

Also, this tweet.  Edward and/or Jerry could be wrong.

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So they are not actually twin Sisters.  However the sheer identicalness and other factors certainly add up to something, and I hope Edward suspects something enough to seriously investigate into that aspect.

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The only evidence to support identical the half-sister and/or cousin theory is the fact that Nanase and Tedd have a very strong resemblance to each other.

Nanase (short hair) : Tedd (short hair)

Nanase (ponytail) : Tedd (female and ponytail)

We know Tedd isn't using a clone form for the ponytail example because her hair and eyes are purple where a clone form of Nanase should have red hair and green eyes.

So either Susan and Diane are still technically sisters despite not being twins, or we should start speculating possible shenanigans with Tedd and Nanase's relation. ;)

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17 hours ago, ijuin said:

The IVF argument (or any similar "came from a single fertilized ovum" argument) seems too much like having them be twins in every way that matters genetically and philosophically, while making them "technically not twins". I sincerely doubt that Dan is going to have the plot be hung up on such a technicality. Susan and Diane are connected, but not in the normal identical-twins sense.

You mean technicality like "Tedd will never have spells of his own"?

17 hours ago, chridd said:

Some thoughts on the possibility of the Dewitching Diamond being the cause of this, as mentioned by a few people here

All good arguments. On the other hand, there MAY be some magic object SIMILAR to Dewitchery Diamond ...

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

It was clear by his amazement at there being multiple high schools in Moperville that he's been stoned for at least a few centuries.

Also, he didn't knew about Mount Doom.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

I would be more inclined to believe that Diane's from Lord Tedd's universe and that at one point Diane's mom fled to this universe when Diane was still a baby or maybe she was still pregnant when she came over and immediately went into labour and perished shortly after giving birth, leaving Diane orphaned.

Or maybe she fled to this universe and then gave Diane to adoption for completely unrelated reasons. Or, maybe she fled, then discovered she's pregnant but didn't wanted HIS child - might make sense if Diane's biological father was someone like Susan's. But note that none of these would explain the woman the father slept with who looked suspiciously similar to Susan ...

9 hours ago, sstabeler said:

They aren't twins because they were born to two different mothers.

Then the time would still be red herring. Also, suspiciously similar to be "just sisters".

6 hours ago, chridd said:

Also, this tweet.  Edward and/or Jerry could be wrong.

If that would be the choice, I would be more inclined to believe the immortal.

Although the possibility they are both technically right seems more interesting.

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my money is on the possibility that susan IS diane. the multiverse has been a part of the series for quite some time now, and it would explain the absence of diane's family, on this world atleast...

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Is this color okay?

The identity of Susan's biological parents has had two possible and seemingly contradictory foreshadowings:

  1. The Other Woman With Susan's Face from  Feb 23, 2007
  2. You Don't Have Any Kids, Do You? from  Jan 17, 2012

Susan Grace noted the first time she met Diane that they looked exactly alike, and unless The Shive is going to say that Grace made a mistake, that stands. It's reasonable to assume that Grace will enter the conversation soon an reveal this, or remind Edward that she's already told him. Grace also notices that the illusion that Adrian put on her makes her look like Susan. She was supposed to look credibly like "his niece" to the muggles.

As I've noted before on this forum, It's credible that Susan's memory of The Woman With Her Face could be false, but The Shive has never added a commentary to that one. Perhaps this signifies that He has forgotten (I hope I don't have to dodge lightning bolts for suggesting that The Shive might be fallible) or perhaps that is exactly what He meant to convey and still does.

Maybe Adrian has a sister?

On 8/30/2016 at 4:01 PM, InfiniteRemnant said:

My money is on the possibility that susan IS Diane. the multiverse has been a part of the series for quite some time now, and it would explain the absence of Diane's family, on this world at least...

I'm quite the fan of multiverse and alternate history stories, but I don't see any foreshadowing for this development.

Edited by Tom Sewell
Saving Grace

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No offense, Tom, I would appreciate it if you used a different color. 

That looks like the color The Old Hack uses when he is posting as a moderator and correcting behavior that is out of bounds.

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18 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

The identity of Susan's biological parents has had two possible and seemingly contradictory foreshadowings:

  1. The Other Woman With Susan's Face from  Feb 23, 2007
  2. You Don't Have Any Kids, Do You? from  Jan 17, 2012

Susan noted the first time she met Diane that they looked exactly alike, and unless The Shive is going to say that Grace made a mistake, that stands. It's reasonable to assume that Grace will enter the conversation soon an reveal this, or remind Edward that she's already told him. Grace also notices that the illusion that Adrian put on her makes her look like Susan. She was supposed to look credibly like "his niece" to the muggles.

As I've noted before on this forum, It's credible that Susan's memory of The Woman With Her Face could be false, but The Shive has never added a commentary to that one. Perhaps this signifies that He has forgotten (I hope I don't have to dodge lightning bolts for suggesting that The Shive might be fallible) or perhaps that is exactly what He meant to convey and still does.

Maybe Adrian has a sister?

1 hour ago, InfiniteRemnant said:

my money is on the possibility that susan IS diane. the multiverse has been a part of the series for quite some time now, and it would explain the absence of diane's family, on this world atleast...

Wait: New theory: The "Other Woman With Susan's Face" is ADRIAN's alternate from other dimension.

That explains both mentioned foreshadowings. Also, as an elf she has enough experience with modifying hospital records: she obviously wouldn't want to appear on either Diane's or Susan's records.

(Note: It was obviously Pandora's alternate who found a way to break the "elves can't have children" rule. Adrian wanted to fight ; his alternate wanted to have children.)

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2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Wait: New theory: The "Other Woman With Susan's Face" is ADRIAN's alternate from other dimension.

That explains both mentioned foreshadowings. Also, as an elf she has enough experience with modifying hospital records.

Yes, and it also implies there's at least one more Pandora out there. Scarrrrryyyyyy........

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10 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:
18 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Wait: New theory: The "Other Woman With Susan's Face" is ADRIAN's alternate from other dimension.

That explains both mentioned foreshadowings. Also, as an elf she has enough experience with modifying hospital records.

Yes, and it also implies there's at least one more Pandora out there. Scarrrrryyyyyy........

Well, obviously. Why else would Pandora appear so much in "Sister III" story arc?

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