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Scotty

story
Story, Friday September 16, 2016

82 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Does he really have title or is it something like when Griffins addressed Nanase as princess?

This immortal hangs around the griffins world.  It's possible Tedd's dad has spent time there and is actually a sir!

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Just now, EmpactWB said:

Anyone else wondering if Tedd will be able to see him if he fades without actually leaving?

That would be interesting, but I doubt it. Immortal magic is undetectable to mortal (and half-mortal) magic senses, and I'm not sure if Tedd's magic vision would be any different.

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2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Alternatively he can give them a pile of misinformation mixed with an equal amount of obscure truths and leave them wondering if it all was a bunch of lies.

That's the one I'm expecting.  In fact, I would expect him to use a lot more truths than lies, just carefully selected truths.

For instance, Edward may have known that Adrian is a half-immortal, but not known that his mother is still alive and un-reset.  Tell him a heavily slanted view of Pandora, and when he says he's got to check with his sources to confirm things, remark that her son might not give him particularly unbiased information.  At that point, if he had even one little thing Adrian had mislead Edward on, he could leave Edward highly suspicious of anything Adrian could offer.

1 hour ago, Drasvin said:

The viability of that kind of dodge depends on how fast Voltaire can switch between planes of existence. With the exception of Pandora (who can already push what is possible for an immortal), every time an immortal has shifted plane on-panel, they had a fading effect, which implies it's not instantaneous. Even when Voltaire was alone and therefor wouldn't need the dramatic effect, he had the fading effect. If the transition isn't instantaneous, then a fast enough attack could still connect before he completely transitions. Whether or not anyone in the room has an attack they could launch fast enough is debatable, though I think is likely (Edward at least should have some fast attacks)

Ellen has one attack she can use rapid-fire.  I think it would be hilarious if it actually worked, maybe even pinning him to the physical plane until it wore off.

39 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Plan CM is supposed to result in more deaths, but these deaths might not include Elliot. Or, yes, he can lie.

Actually, Plan CM apparently requires that Elliot be alive.

13 minutes ago, EmpactWB said:

Anyone else wondering if Tedd will be able to see him if he fades without actually leaving?

My guess would be, only if he has his power glove on, and even then, maybe only for a fraction of a second.

What would be even more interesting would be if Sarah could see Immortals if she cast her time-stop just as they were fading away.  Maybe just a brief glimpse of what they were doing immediately after, but if she could see which way an immortal headed, or the look on their face when they thought they were unobserved, it might tell them a few bits of critical information.

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1 hour ago, JustBecauseICantDraw said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Does he really have title or is it something like when Griffins addressed Nanase as princess?

This immortal hangs around the griffins world.  It's possible Tedd's dad has spent time there and is actually a sir!

You would think he would say something when the griffin first arrived ... or did Tedd forgot to mention that?

50 minutes ago, EmpactWB said:

Anyone else wondering if Tedd will be able to see him if he fades without actually leaving?

Fading or not, I'm really interested what Tedd's magic senses says about him.

50 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

That would be interesting, but I doubt it. Immortal magic is undetectable to mortal (and half-mortal) magic senses, and I'm not sure if Tedd's magic vision would be any different.

The whales are likely COMPLETELY unobservable even to immortals.

32 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:
3 hours ago, Scotty said:

Alternatively he can give them a pile of misinformation mixed with an equal amount of obscure truths and leave them wondering if it all was a bunch of lies.

That's the one I'm expecting.  In fact, I would expect him to use a lot more truths than lies, just carefully selected truths.

For instance, Edward may have known that Adrian is a half-immortal, but not known that his mother is still alive and un-reset.  Tell him a heavily slanted view of Pandora, and when he says he's got to check with his sources to confirm things, remark that her son might not give him particularly unbiased information.  At that point, if he had even one little thing Adrian had mislead Edward on, he could leave Edward highly suspicious of anything Adrian could offer.

Which is good strategy especially considering Adrian likely wouldn't try to defend Pandora ...

35 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

What would be even more interesting would be if Sarah could see Immortals if she cast her time-stop just as they were fading away.  Maybe just a brief glimpse of what they were doing immediately after, but if she could see which way an immortal headed, or the look on their face when they thought they were unobserved, it might tell them a few bits of critical information.

Her power have no warning before providing false information. This would be something which would need to be tested ... not tried first time now.

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17 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Fading or not, I'm really interested what Tedd's magic senses says about him.

That's actually a good point, Immortals power can't be detected by normal means, but Tedd's certainly not normal in his sensing ability. His being able to sense the whale's presence and was likely part of his rarity and the glove enchanced his detection to see the whale. It might be possible he doesn't need the glove to see Voltaire's power, but even if it doesn't let Tedd track Voltaire through the spirit realm, seeing Voltaire do it might give him insight into how to travel to the spirit realm.

That might be pushing the theory though, I'm not sure if Voltaire is aware of Tedd's ability or not, I don't know for sure if Pandora is aware of Tedd being one of those rare types of wizards, but considering she was at the card tournament as well, she must have seen him when he changed back to male, and then overheard Tedd, Grace and Sarah talking about it, and that was two days earlier in comic time, she certainly didn't react to Disco Wizard mentioning the rare wizard bit in a way that suggested she knows, but it possible she didn't considered it relevant to her plans. She still seems to favour giving Adrian a better future, letting the system change could have favoured Tedd's future.

2 hours ago, JustBecauseICantDraw said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Does he really have title or is it something like when Griffins addressed Nanase as princess?

This immortal hangs around the griffins world.  It's possible Tedd's dad has spent time there and is actually a sir!

This isn't the first time he's been called "Sir".

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5 hours ago, hkmaly said:
6 hours ago, Drasvin said:

That would be interesting, but I doubt it. Immortal magic is undetectable to mortal (and half-mortal) magic senses, and I'm not sure if Tedd's magic vision would be any different.

The whales are likely COMPLETELY unobservable even to immortals.

Tedd was able to detect them on a subconscious level(giving him the feeling of being watched) even before he boosted himself with his power gauntlet. Yet there's been no indication of him getting even a subconscious detection of the Immortals. Tedd possibly could detect Immortals if he supercharged himself again, but that would require having a charged up gauntlet and last time he used it, the battle mode didn't last very long.

5 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
7 hours ago, Drasvin said:

The viability of that kind of dodge depends on how fast Voltaire can switch between planes of existence. With the exception of Pandora (who can already push what is possible for an immortal), every time an immortal has shifted plane on-panel, they had a fading effect, which implies it's not instantaneous. Even when Voltaire was alone and therefor wouldn't need the dramatic effect, he had the fading effect. If the transition isn't instantaneous, then a fast enough attack could still connect before he completely transitions. Whether or not anyone in the room has an attack they could launch fast enough is debatable, though I think is likely (Edward at least should have some fast attacks)

Ellen has one attack she can use rapid-fire.  I think it would be hilarious if it actually worked, maybe even pinning him to the physical plane until it wore off.

I don't think it would pin him to the physical plane, though it would be a hilarious effect if it actually stuck (sadly, he might be able to shrug off her FV5 Beam like Not-Tengu did, if the reason that Not-Tengu shrugged it off was how powerful he was and not some other quality). Though I'm not sure if Voltaire would get indignant about it or just laugh it off and shapeshift himself back to normal.

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about Pandora being able to sense Voltaire: I suspect she could. Remember that as Immortals get older, they are able to see more clearly- I suspect that how Immortals hiding from each other works is that they more-or-less obscure their presence from other Immortals- it would explain how come they need to figure out how again after each reset. ( it's inherent in the same way as it's inherent that people can ride a bike- you still need to learn how) So maybe, after a certain age, Immortals are able to see other Immortals regardless. They just usually reset before that point.

 

as an aside, i love how Nanase looks like she's about to start kicking Voltaire's arse.

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Ellen and Elliot have a sort-of-fast magic attack that would be pretty nasty.

Nanase has a couple magical ways of delivering a physical attack that would be pretty fast, but one requires equipment and the other requires preparation.

Nanase also once blew out a punching bag, and I doubt that Ellen or Elliot are far behind in strength.

I don't doubt that Grace could wreak havoc very quickly - after she changes to a suitable form, which may also count as magic weapons.

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15 hours ago, Drasvin said:

Though I'm not sure if Voltaire would get indignant about it or just laugh it off and shapeshift himself back to normal.

Maybe he would fail to notice? :)

9 hours ago, sstabeler said:

as an aside, i love how Nanase looks like she's about to start kicking Voltaire's arse.

Which would be bad idea, as it would allow him to counterattack.

 

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So...
I think Voltaire is lying. From what we saw of the Dragon, and Dex, it was trying to get away from Elliot, and explode the dojo to create an obvious magical incident.

I think this is step 32 of 955 of "Plan CM".

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48 minutes ago, Hariman said:

So...
I think Voltaire is lying. From what we saw of the Dragon, and Dex, it was trying to get away from Elliot, and explode the dojo to create an obvious magical incident.

I think this is step 32 of 955 of "Plan CM".

It grabbed Elliotisolated him, forced a sacrifice play, and then moved in for the kill. I cannot agree that it was trying to avoid him.

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1 hour ago, Hariman said:

From what we saw of the Dragon, and Dex, it was trying to get away from Elliot, and explode the dojo to create an obvious magical incident.

The Dojo explosion would also kill Noah (and Dex and possibly Grace). Which, while not exactly consistent with plan to kill Elliot, would still make more likely it was Voltaire than Pandora - because she's likely considering Noah "family".

(Note that Elliot survived similar fireball, but 1) healing factor 2) did the dragon actually noticed that?)

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4 minutes ago, EmpactWB said:

It grabbed Elliotisolated him, forced a sacrifice play, and then moved in for the kill. I cannot agree that it was trying to avoid him.

But when Noah came in, the dragon switched focus, and kept that focus, chasing Noah back to the Dojo, Justin can't fly, what was to stop Dex from having the dragon hover out of reach and launch another fireball towards Cheerleadra's location?

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4 hours ago, Scotty said:

But when Noah came in, the dragon switched focus, and kept that focus, chasing Noah back to the Dojo, Justin can't fly, what was to stop Dex from having the dragon hover out of reach and launch another fireball towards Cheerleadra's location?

Noah forcibly switched the dragon's attention, and beat it to death (it got better). It only hit him when he was distracted, and by then Justin was coming back to the scene. Then Noah announced that he was going after the summoner to deliberately lure it away.

Edited by EmpactWB
Sizing issue & adding quote.

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Summoned monsters seem to have their own instincts (see the bloodgrem fighting Elliot), so the dragon may have been thinking on its own when it was chasing Noah (who had, after all, attacked it).

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1 minute ago, ijuin said:

Summoned monsters seem to have their own instincts (see the bloodgrem fighting Elliot), so the dragon may have been thinking on its own when it was chasing Noah (who had, after all, attacked it).

The dragon was being controlled as evidenced by Dex's "There?", as well as when Dex had the dragon shoot a fireball at the dojo.

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2 hours ago, Scotty said:

But when Noah came in, the dragon switched focus, and kept that focus, chasing Noah back to the Dojo, Justin can't fly, what was to stop Dex from having the dragon hover out of reach and launch another fireball towards Cheerleadra's location?

I repeat: It makes perfect sense if the dragon assumed Cheerleadra is dead and moved to secondary target.

Also note that if the dragon didn't pursue Noah he would likely return ...

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7 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I repeat: It makes perfect sense if the dragon assumed Cheerleadra is dead and moved to secondary target.

The Voltaire would have been incompetent as a villain to not have Dex confirm that Cheerleadra was truly dead. Though that does seem to be cliche in a number of movies and TV shows and games where the villain assumed the hero has died just because they've fallen into a hole or off the side of a mountain or was shot in the head. ;)

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Given Dex's question of "Won't that kill me, too?" I think that we can safely assume that the blast was expected to be lethal to any human who does not have physical or magical protection. At worst, Voltaire would have been underestimating how much of a defense boost the Cheerleadra form gave to Elliot.

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1 hour ago, ijuin said:

Given Dex's question of "Won't that kill me, too?" I think that we can safely assume that the blast was expected to be lethal to any human who does not have physical or magical protection.

Well, shot to the head is ALSO generally expected to be lethal to any human who does not have physical or magical protection.

1 hour ago, ijuin said:

At worst, Voltaire would have been underestimating how much of a defense boost the Cheerleadra form gave to Elliot.

Note that Voltaire likely wasn't personally there. So, Voltaire based his decision on what Dex told him about what the dragon see ... doesn't sound reliable, does it?

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1 hour ago, ijuin said:

Given Dex's question of "Won't that kill me, too?" I think that we can safely assume that the blast was expected to be lethal to any human who does not have physical or magical protection. At worst, Voltaire would have been underestimating how much of a defense boost the Cheerleadra form gave to Elliot.

Cheerleadra wasn't at the dojo then. Noah seemed to be the only one who sensed the blast coming, and the dragon didn't move away from Elliot until Noah flew away.

How much control did Voltaire have over that dragon? Quite a lot, apparently. The dragon didn't attack Elliot after grabbing him and breaking through the roof of the dojo. Instead it flew to Melissa and spit a fireball at her, forcing Elliot to block it. Could Voltaire have expected Noah to block it?

The fireball that would have killed Dex too could be reasonably expected to kill Greg as well as Noah, so the "one murder" rule seems to have been considerably stretched here. Voltaire was complaining that Plan B was a complicated mess, but Plan A sounds pretty darned complicated and messy, don't it, now?

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1 minute ago, Tom Sewell said:

How much control did Voltaire have over that dragon? Quite a lot, apparently. The dragon didn't attack Elliot after grabbing him and breaking through the roof of the dojo. Instead it flew to Melissa and spit a fireball at her, forcing Elliot to block it. Could Voltaire have expected Noah to block it?

No. He expected Elliot to die blocking first fireball and then Noah arriving and die blocking second fireball.

Note that there may be some cooldown period on that fireball. Which would also explain why it tried the sacrifice thing instead of trying to hit cheerleadra and test how she can dodge.

2 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

The fireball that would have killed Dex too could be reasonably expected to kill Greg as well as Noah, so the "one murder" rule seems to have been considerably stretched here.

Elliot (by first fireball), Dex, Noah, Greg, possibly Grace (although she's fire resistant) ... I count 5 ... hmmm ...

3 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Voltaire was complaining that Plan B was a complicated mess, but Plan A sounds pretty darned complicated and messy, don't it, now?

Now, it's possible Plan B is SO MUCH messier plan A will look plain and easy in comparison.

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Elliot (by first fireball), Dex, Noah, Greg, possibly Grace (although she's fire resistant) ... I count 5 ... hmmm ...

Grace might be fire proof, but she might not have survived the concussive force of the explosion, just like she wouldn't have survived Damien's self destruction if it wasn't for Nioi's intervention.

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This is getting interesting. I suppose Voltaire and Pandora are supposed to respectively represent Order and Chaos. Volty wanting to preserve the status quo by any means necessary and Pandora simply doing this out of love for her son/wanting to give him a better world to participate in. Which, I assume, Voltaire doesn't exactly know all of her motives. That would've required him to constantly be keeping tabs on Pandora, and if he could do that, I think he would've guided our main cast to her much sooner. It was only after she'd been running around marking people (I'm pretty sure she marked Dex first and then Justin and the others) that it seems that he got involved.

Also, I'm pretty sure Elliot isn't Pandora's important pawn, since he had the Cheerleadra spell WAY before Pandora started getting heavily involved in the matter. I don't actually know if she has any, really. From the main cast, the character/s most LIKELY to be her 'pawn/s' are Diane and Susan, considering this arc's title and focus on their relationship....OR Sarah.

Sarah has a ridiculous spell that she has an affinity toward that, as of yet, NO ONE ELSE knows about it. We haven't seen her tell anyone else and I note that Justin, Susan and Sarah are absent from this conversation with Voltaire...With Susan we see that she is working, I assume Justin is working/on his date (but we don't know yet).....But with SARAH we had a focus of Pandora going to talk to her. Not Elliot or the others....I really want to see where this goes.

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