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Story, Wednesday September 21, 2016

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Wow, talk about wiggle room in that vow.

Not to attempt to have Elliot killed.

Not to attempt to have Elliot killed.

All sorts of room. Enough to drive an 18-wheeler through it.

And if it has the same leeway as the immortal "laws" where if he can rationalize it to himself ... "Oh, I didn't expect that to kill him, just hurt a bit. Oops."

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So I've never done this before but maybe Dan was thinking of the saying "swimming with the sharks".  It means to take a risk but kinda starting to think all interaction with immortals is risky business.

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11 minutes ago, mlooney said:

Voltaire has been shown to be a lying liar who lies.

His vow means exactly diddly over squat

I dunno, he might be serious. JBICD pointed out in the previous thread that Voltaire already baited Elliot into potential suicidally reckless behavior. Since the vow only applies to actions going forward, this might be the only plan he has right now that involves Elliot dying. And it still leaves him free to try having any of Elliot's associates killed, regardless of what Elliot might be tempted to do when such situations arise. He's might be completely honest about this; if he's already set the plan in motion, he really isn't trying anymore. It's up to luck and fate.

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Had to make an account just to comment on this comic.

"I vow to not attempt to have Elliot killed."

That vow is so narrowly focused that it only prohibits Voltaire from trying to kill Elliot himself.  It doesn't stop him from coercing others from trying (see Dex), because Volty would not be the one trying.  Also, giving just a first name and no other indicator about WHICH Elliot the vow targets means Elliot Dunkel may not be the Elliot the vow is about.  And even if it is, does is cover Elliot when he is transformed?  Probably not.  Yeah, that vow means bupkuss.

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I'm sure there was a song from a movie "swimming with the big fish now" was, if not the title of the song, at least the key part of the chorus, the song being about leaving your sheltered life behind and stopping out into the world.

 

Probably a movie where the characters are fish, but I can't find it...

 

Google seems to have no idea.

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This is exactly what I said when Voltaire first showed up, he's saying he won't attempt to have Elliot killed but, aside from the attempt to provoke Elliot into attacking him, he's already set in motion an attempt that if it succeeds, Voltaire can just say "technically I already made that attempt before I vowed, it just took a while for it to conclude".

3 hours ago, Kethrian said:

Had to make an account just to comment on this comic.

"I vow to not attempt to have Elliot killed."

That vow is so narrowly focused that it only prohibits Voltaire from trying to kill Elliot himself.  It doesn't stop him from coercing others from trying (see Dex), because Volty would not be the one trying.  Also, giving just a first name and no other indicator about WHICH Elliot the vow targets means Elliot Dunkel may not be the Elliot the vow is about.  And even if it is, does is cover Elliot when he is transformed?  Probably not.  Yeah, that vow means bupkuss.

The "have Elliot killed" does imply manipulating others into killing Elliot, which should prevent Voltaire from doing so, but at the very least it doesn't prevent Voltaire from harassing Elliot until Elliot reacts in a way that lets Voltaire kill him himself.

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Hmm, I suspect trying to kill Elliot himself wouldn't fit under "empower and guide," so I think that possibility is already off the board.  Still, if Edward doesn't at least try to expand on that vow or point out the loopholes, then I'll be very disappointed in him.

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5 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I see him smiling and all I can think is how he shows his pearly whites.

But he does have pretty teeth.

The strip is in black and white, of course you could see his pearly whites! :demonicduck: 

Man, either Edward is strong, Elliot is weak and/or he has a low center of gravity or he is close to the stairwell.

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1 hour ago, Sweveham said:

He's certainly better at dealing with supernatural dangers than with parenting.

Sadly, most people get more formal training for their paid jobs than they do for (what should be) their most important job.

Edward Veres has done some things wrong in the process of raising Tedd.  But I still would not call him a bad parent

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1 hour ago, Sweveham said:

I'm impressed with Edward's fortitude. Being calm and rational in the face of such a dangerous adversary is admirable. He's certainly better at dealing with supernatural dangers than with parenting.

I think you are mixing up Edward with Noriko. Edward is the one who stayed the course. And I might point out that Tedd probably qualifies as a supernatural danger well over and above being a teenage boy/girl/whatever.

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40 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Sadly, most people get more formal training for their paid jobs than they do for (what should be) their most important job.

Edward Veres has done some things wrong in the process of raising Tedd.  But I still would not call him a bad parent

Speaking of good or bad parents, https://m.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/ might just lose you your faith in humanity.

Back (more) on topic, while not perfect, Ed Verres has not shown himself to be nearly as bad as it might get (he did relent on the TF Gun and Grace after realising just how much they meant to Tedd, after all).  And thanks to Noriko, he's been having to work it out on his own for much of it, something which I do not envy.

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I think "swimming with the big fish" is a great twist on two familiar metaphors ("big fish/small pond" & "swimming with sharks"). It's concise, fresh, and the meaning is instantly understandable to anyone who's heard the earlier two.

 

Voltaire IS a troll, no question...but assuming he's not just off his immortal rocker like Pandora, why is he targeting Elliot? He just happens to decide to pick on the heroic best friend of Pandora's grand godson? 

 

I suspect it's her whose attention he's really after...

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6 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I see him smiling and all I can think is how he shows his pearly whites.

But he does have pretty teeth.

It's just that one fang that ruins it....

Seriously, did he break the other one, or did his dentist have to remove it for some reason and didn't bother trying to find a proper match to replace it with?

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14 hours ago, mlooney said:

Voltaire has been shown to be a lying liar who lies.

His vow means exactly diddly over squat

The vow is technical term from the law of immortals. That's why he tries to make it as useless as possible.

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

he's already set in motion an attempt that if it succeeds, Voltaire can just say "technically I already made that attempt before I vowed, it just took a while for it to conclude".

Note that killing Elliot was never the goal - it was just one step of the plan. It's possible he really gave up the "kill Elliot" route (well ... unless Elliot commits suicide by attacking him) and his new plan can succeed with Elliot alive.

9 hours ago, Stature said:

Man, either Edward is strong, Elliot is weak and/or he has a low center of gravity or he is close to the stairwell.

He didn't expected attack from THIS side.

9 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Hmm, I suspect trying to kill Elliot himself wouldn't fit under "empower and guide," so I think that possibility is already off the board.

No, because self-defense is exception from empower and guide.

7 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:
8 hours ago, Sweveham said:

He's certainly better at dealing with supernatural dangers than with parenting.

Sadly, most people get more formal training for their paid jobs than they do for (what should be) their most important job.

Also, they generally get more experience with paid jobs. Meanwhile, you are supposed to get parenting right on first try.

7 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

And I might point out that Tedd probably qualifies as a supernatural danger well over and above being a teenage boy/girl/whatever.

... but Edward doesn't know it yet.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

It's just that one fang that ruins it....

Seriously, did he break the other one, or did his dentist have to remove it for some reason and didn't bother trying to find a proper match to replace it with?

I'm pretty sure he have enough shapeshifting to make this "one fang" look deliberately just to unhinge people like you.

Immortals definitely don't need to visit dentist. They likely don't need to EAT either.

 

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5 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I'm pretty sure he have enough shapeshifting to make this "one fang" look deliberately just to unhinge people like you.

Immortals definitely don't need to visit dentist. They likely don't need to EAT either.

While I will give you the shapeshifting point as possible option for Immortals, my comment was mainly just a joke response to Pharaoh's comment about his teeth.

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7 hours ago, ShinyAeon said:

I think "swimming with the big fish" is a great twist on two familiar metaphors ("big fish/small pond" & "swimming with sharks"). It's concise, fresh, and the meaning is instantly understandable to anyone who's heard the earlier two.

Voltaire IS a troll, no question...but assuming he's not just off his immortal rocker like Pandora, why is he targeting Elliot? He just happens to decide to pick on the heroic best friend of Pandora's grand godson? 

I suspect it's her whose attention he's really after...

Given that he called Elliot "the pawn of chaos" back here I figured that was a given. Well, not so much that he's after her attention, but that whatever he's doing involves her in some way.

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18 minutes ago, Random Wanderer said:

Given that he called Elliot "the pawn of chaos" back here I figured that was a given. Well, not so much that he's after her attention, but that whatever he's doing involves her in some way.

The comics doesn't differentiate case of letters, so he might really called Elliot "the pawn of chaos". But I think he was referring Pandora directly and called him "the pawn of Chaos".

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