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exterminator

Story, September Monday 26 2016

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28 minutes ago, The Stray said:

So this is probably how he wants to "make the world a better place." He wants to find a way to get Immortals to change their laws so they can more directly affect the world. 

And how is he going to do that? Since he's forced to work under the existing rules, he has to find someone who will actually want what he can give them in order to empower and guide them into what he wants done. 

I think there's a hint here that Voltaire has an agenda beyond destroying Pandora. Maybe bringing down such a powerful Immortal as Pandora would also bring down the whole apparatus the other Immortals have set up. Whether that's true or not, if Voltaire believes it and believes it would be the right thing to do, I think that's what he's going for.

It's interesting that Voltaire hasn't been shown interacting with Magus, who swore to destroy Pandora. We don't know whether Voltaire even knows Magus exists. Voltaire does know that Sirleck exists, since he impersonated Abner the detective to sic Sirleck onto Adrian.

Maybe all the people shown in the title page are catspaws.

 

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1 hour ago, The Stray said:

So this is probably how he wants to "make the world a better place." He wants to find a way to get Immortals to change their laws so they can more directly affect the world. 

This was my thought as well. This seems to me to be the first hint of Voltaire's motives out of all his appearances. I'm not sure we've been given enough information to figure out why eliminating Elliott would accomplish such a thing. But then again, we also don't know why Elliott is apparently also the key to Magus's leaving his current residence.

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Just now, Tom Sewell said:

And how is he going to do that? Since he's forced to work under the existing rules, he has to find someone who will actually want what he can give them in order to empower and guide them into what he wants done. 

I think there's a hint here that Voltaire has an agenda beyond destroying Pandora. Maybe bringing down such a powerful Immortal as Pandora would also bring down the whole apparatus the other Immortals have set up. Whether that's true or not, if Voltaire believes it and believes it would be the right thing to do, I think that's what he's going for.

It's interesting that Voltaire hasn't been shown interacting with Magus, who swore to destroy Pandora. We don't know whether Voltaire even knows Magus exists. Voltaire does know that Sirleck exists, since he impersonated Abner the detective to sic Sirleck onto Adrian.

Maybe all the people shown in the title page are catspaws.

 

Maybe a system change would allow for Immortals to change the rules? Or Voltaire's thinking a system change would render the current rules useless? Still not sure where Elliot fits, but Voltaire dragging Adrian into it could probably be meant as an insurance policy to make sure Pandora continues her plan to make magic public

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Is it too late to visit the theory that Voltaire hasn't reset in over 200 year either? Because he's certainly sounding like he's become bored and frustrated.

Back when I did the math on Immortals, I came to the scary conclusion that there could be millions of immortals that have skipped the 200 year reset thing.

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5 minutes ago, mlooney said:

Back when I did the math on Immortals, I came to the scary conclusion that there could be millions of immortals that have skipped the 200 year reset thing.

the even worse part is that there's more of them between shared dimensions and it seems likely that most of them have veered towards megalomania (albeit actually realized via magic), but only places like moperville have the potential to cause these huge issues because of mortal accessibility to magic

not much reassurance here considering all the converging plots

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2 hours ago, exterminator said:

Have you tried asking nicely?

To kill someone?

... hmmm ... actually, I think there ARE people who would harm or kill someone if you ask them nicely and provide few tips about how to get into his home.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Is it too late to visit the theory that Voltaire hasn't reset in over 200 year either? Because he's certainly sounding like he's become bored and frustrated.

He sounds like not taking it well, but not going crazy from it. Which makes most likely that his age is close to 200, unlike Pandora, who is waaaaay over 200.

24 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

I wonder if today's outburst was scripted or off-script...

I would say on-script or mostly on-script, unlike previous page. In fact, the thing he started to say on previous page - "you don't have to worry about" - was likely what he talks about now.

53 minutes ago, StarCreator said:
2 hours ago, The Stray said:

So this is probably how he wants to "make the world a better place." He wants to find a way to get Immortals to change their laws so they can more directly affect the world. 

This was my thought as well. This seems to me to be the first hint of Voltaire's motives out of all his appearances. I'm not sure we've been given enough information to figure out why eliminating Elliott would accomplish such a thing. But then again, we also don't know why Elliott is apparently also the key to Magus's leaving his current residence.

Actually, it's still possible he has different idea about how to make the world a better place BUT current immortal rules are preventing him from doing it. Therefore, he is trying to do it in some complicated way which likely either involves destroying Pandora or manipulating her into something. (Possibly manipulating her into something and then be reset due to that.)

(Note: Personally, I'm glad immortal rules are preventing him from doing it because I don't think we would like his idea about what makes world a better place.)

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51 minutes ago, StarCreator said:

This was my thought as well. This seems to me to be the first hint of Voltaire's motives out of all his appearances. I'm not sure we've been given enough information to figure out why eliminating Elliott would accomplish such a thing. But then again, we also don't know why Elliott is apparently also the key to Magus's leaving his current residence.

He did refer to his current plan as "a complicated mess", so perhaps he is trying to create such a disaster that it will sway the opinion of the Immortal community towards "We might have prevented this disaster if we had been able to intervene directly". Making Pandora completely lose herself with rage (e.g. by wrecking the lives of her "extended family" such as Tedd, etc.) and go on a hugely destructive rampage might be the key to this.

As for the "got lucky with Dex and Tara" part, when one is an Immortal well past the customary reset date, one is able to forecast the hurricane that will be created by the flap of a particular butterfly's wings. He may have been "lucky" in the sense of such optimal people being available for him to manipulate, but that's more a matter of being lucky that gold nuggets are in the river in the first place as opposed to being lucky in finding them given that they already exist.

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10 minutes ago, ijuin said:
1 hour ago, StarCreator said:

This was my thought as well. This seems to me to be the first hint of Voltaire's motives out of all his appearances. I'm not sure we've been given enough information to figure out why eliminating Elliott would accomplish such a thing. But then again, we also don't know why Elliott is apparently also the key to Magus's leaving his current residence.

He did refer to his current plan as "a complicated mess", so perhaps he is trying to create such a disaster that it will sway the opinion of the Immortal community towards "We might have prevented this disaster if we had been able to intervene directly". Making Pandora completely lose herself with rage (e.g. by wrecking the lives of her "extended family" such as Tedd, etc.) and go on a hugely destructive rampage might be the key to this.

Hmmmm ... there were cases in past where immortals caused lot of destruction because of not resetting ... but it's possible noone ever got THIS old and then on rampage. Still, I think something like this would more likely cause adding some rule about FORCING immortals to reset ... unless, of course, there are more immortals who think the rules are not optimal and ANY attempt to change them would result in restarting negotiation about ALL rules ...

13 minutes ago, ijuin said:

As for the "got lucky with Dex and Tara" part, when one is an Immortal well past the customary reset date, one is able to forecast the hurricane that will be created by the flap of a particular butterfly's wings. He may have been "lucky" in the sense of such optimal people being available for him to manipulate, but that's more a matter of being lucky that gold nuggets are in the river in the first place as opposed to being lucky in finding them given that they already exist.

He also found Sirleck. I think he has no shortage of options to "get lucky". Although ... Dex and Tara might be easy to target. Sirleck, no so much.

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Just now, hkmaly said:

He also found Sirleck. I think he has no shortage of options to "get lucky". Although ... Dex and Tara might be easy to target. Sirleck, no so much.

Maybe Voltaire needs to "get lucky" with Pandora? This is starting to sound reminiscent of the Q civil war which ends with Q and Q making a baby. ;)

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Maybe a system change would allow for Immortals to change the rules? Or Voltaire's thinking a system change would render the current rules useless? Still not sure where Elliot fits, but Voltaire dragging Adrian into it could probably be meant as an insurance policy to make sure Pandora continues her plan to make magic public

A system change could potentially make "empower" more powerful, if there are fewer/different restrictions on what spells an immortal can give (can give people spells they don't want more easily) and/or if it's possible to give people powers they can't control or turn off or predict.  Of course, it could just as easily go the other way, with more restrictions (which seems more likely given that magic doesn't want too many people to use it).  It could also make "guide" more powerful, if humans can't predict what a given spell will do or how it works but immortals can.

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7 minutes ago, Scotty said:
19 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

He also found Sirleck. I think he has no shortage of options to "get lucky". Although ... Dex and Tara might be easy to target. Sirleck, no so much.

Maybe Voltaire needs to "get lucky" with Pandora? This is starting to sound reminiscent of the Q civil war which ends with Q and Q making a baby. ;)

... if that was his intention he made a mistake. But, yes, I can totally imagine him thinking this is good strategy ...

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A long time ago, a few immortals decided what the rest of the immortals could and could not do.  Most of the immortal legislators have long since reset, possibly several times over.  But the immortals of now are still bound by rules set down way back when.

Could this be prevented by creating an immortal town hall, forum, congress, or round table?  Some place where immortals can take their ideas and grievances and actually talk about them?  Maybe even have the opportunity to amend the immortal code by referendum?

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Impotence? Impotence?! Heck, you had to sound like Flowey!! :demonicduck:

24 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Could this be prevented by creating an immortal town hall, forum, congress, or round table?  Some place where immortals can take their ideas and grievances and actually talk about them?  Maybe even have the opportunity to amend the immortal code by referendum?

Best case is a successful high court - but since it is not known as to where (and purposefully when) these laws were created, my presumption is the Immortals are enacting Dr. Strangelove.

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49 minutes ago, Stature said:

Impotence? Impotence?! Heck, you had to sound like Flowey!! :demonicduck:

Best case is a successful high court - but since it is not known as to where (and purposefully when) these laws were created, my presumption is the Immortals are enacting Dr. Strangelove.

Peter Sellers was great in all the roles he had in that film.  Maybe it's been too long since I've seen it but I'm not getting what you're saying.

Maybe Voltaire's entire visit, is just to set up the question, "Why?"  Why would he try to bump Elliot off in the first place?

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4 hours ago, weirdee said:

"Ew!"

"I was referring to the extent the law of the immortals is holding me back."

"Then say that!"

Sadly, I think Tedd knows what it means now, and the rest of the group probably would already.

Nice thought, though.

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1 hour ago, Stature said:
1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Could this be prevented by creating an immortal town hall, forum, congress, or round table?  Some place where immortals can take their ideas and grievances and actually talk about them?  Maybe even have the opportunity to amend the immortal code by referendum?

Best case is a successful high court - but since it is not known as to where (and purposefully when) these laws were created, my presumption is the Immortals are enacting Dr. Strangelove.

Court is definitely the correct name.

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2 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Could this be prevented by creating an immortal town hall, forum, congress, or round table?  Some place where immortals can take their ideas and grievances and actually talk about them?  Maybe even have the opportunity to amend the immortal code by referendum?

The whole setup is so alien it's hard to tell how it works - rules are enforced if you think you are violating them, but apparently don't go away if you think the rules are ridiculous.  And what about if you don't even know what they are, say because you reset improperly and didn't carry that information forward. 

If Immortals really have set up a situation in which they are somehow bound by rules that perhaps none of them still support, they really do need to figure out some way to alter them.  Of course political solutions may not come easily to mind; I certainly get the impression Immortals aren't real good with social stuff.  There are after all well established methods of convincing people to do things for you - you find people who want the same things and persuade them to cooperate, or you pay them money - the large scale structures doing this are called political parties and corporations respectively - and while building one you mostly control isn't exactly a short term goal, Immortals aren't short of time....

Has he even tried to recruit help by explaining what he is trying to do?  The world is full of groups working toward all sorts of goals that appear utterly ridiculous, so it's not like it's hard to find people.  Surely the idea of building a small cult of loyal human followers isn't one immortals are unfamiliar with. 

If Elliot is all that pivotal, did he even consider starting with *talking to Elliot* and convincing him?  Might have worked, especially if he were approached alone rather than in this (much more skeptical) group and told something suitably slanted (the rules do after all still allow Voltaire to lie).

 

 

 

 

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But do many other immortals feel this way?  Maybe this is something that only Voltaire feels...

Perhaps Voltaire is particularly bad at guiding and empowering?  Or at using "guide and empower" to his advantage (aside from loopholes)?  Maybe he's from some other (half-)universe, one where the rules are different (one where Edward is/would be a knight?), or was once mortal, and so is new to the whole guiding-and-empowering thing?  (...is the father of a "Lord" likely to be a "Sir"?)  (...or if he is from another universe, maybe he's bound by their rules too, which make guiding and empowering difficult?)

...or his motives are so selfish and obviously evil that almost no one would cooperate with him...

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3 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

A long time ago, a few immortals decided what the rest of the immortals could and could not do.  Most of the immortal legislators have long since reset, possibly several times over.  But the immortals of now are still bound by rules set down way back when.

Who says they're different Immortals?  They likely were all, or almost all, involved in creating the agreement in the first place, depending on whether you believe new Immortals come into existence occasionally.  Their basic nature carries over through their resets.

50 minutes ago, malloyd said:

If Immortals really have set up a situation in which they are somehow bound by rules that perhaps none of them still support, they really do need to figure out some way to alter them.  Of course political solutions may not come easily to mind; I certainly get the impression Immortals aren't real good with social stuff. 

Sounds like they need someone experienced in supernatural negotiations and diplomacy.  Wonder if it would ever occur to them to ask Edward's help?  Maybe Pandora, given that he's sort of family?

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