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Scotty

NP, Wednesday October 5, 2016

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Rhoda thinks fast. Guessed correctly it's because of a mark - waaait - this is also first confirmation Rhoda noticed her own mark. Or at least was told about it, if she don't have enough mirrors to notice :)

And waaaiit II: Rhoda HAD a mark? Is she using past tense because she no longer have it? That would mean she awakened!

25 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Of course, this is Catalina we're talking about, she wants to keep others from finding out, but is overthinking things.

I'm not sure "overthinking" is the correct term for this OR the mentioned Elliot kiss case.

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1 minute ago, hkmaly said:

I'm not sure "overthinking" is the correct term for this OR the mentioned Elliot kiss case.

Possibly in Catalina's case, the correct definition is that thought equals action. She thinks fast, then without further ado puts her thoughts into action.

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9 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

Possibly in Catalina's case, the correct definition is that thought equals action. She thinks fast, then without further ado puts her thoughts into action.

Catalina took the GIURPS disadvantage "Impulsive" at double normal strength,

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Rhoda thinks fast. Guessed correctly it's because of a mark - waaait - this is also first confirmation Rhoda noticed her own mark. Or at least was told about it, if she don't have enough mirrors to notice :)

I think it is the confirmation that she's connected her spell with a mark she got out of the blue. No clue as to when she finally noticed the mark or when she realized she had the spell, best possible guess would be it happened over the summer. I want to believe it would be when Catalina and Rhoda went to the beach and Catalina noticed it after they got into their swimsuits. That would be the most likely scenario.

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

And waaaiit II: Rhoda HAD a mark? Is she using past tense because she no longer have it? That would mean she awakened!

Possible? I mean Pandora awakened Justin later to mess with Luke, maybe Pandora awakened Rhoda as well? I dunno, I guess it depends on how often Rhoda used her spell once she figured out she had one, but based on Pandora's first talk with Sarah, she would have needed to use it sparingly enough to not let the ambient energy do all the work.

It's also possible she used past tense to refer to when she(or they) first noticed the mark.

6 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

You normally get a roll to avoid acting on impulse. Catalina's version doesn't allow for the roll.

Elliot managed to roll a successful intervention to keep Catalina from doing anything drastic in order to apologize to Rhoda.

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4 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

You normally get a roll to avoid acting on impulse. Catalina's version doesn't allow for the roll.

You're right.  Catalina plays it more like a psych disad.  She either gets the will roll -4 version or no will roll at all unless there's intervention by a third party.

After Catalina kissed Elliot and the dust settled and Catalina realized what kissing Elliot could mean to Rhoda, it was relatively easy for Elliot to talk Catalina out of "the greatest apology ever" and suggest, "just tell your girlfriend what happened".  Catalina internalized it and followed through without needing additional rolls (that were shown to us anyway).

 

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17 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:
1 hour ago, Vorlonagent said:

Catalina took the GIURPS disadvantage "Impulsive" at double normal strength,

You normally get a roll to avoid acting on impulse. Catalina's version doesn't allow for the roll.

You normally get a roll to avoid acting on impulse, but you can forgo the roll (and the book states it's generally good roleplaying to forgo the roll.) On the other hand, she might just have really bad dice rolls.

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6 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

You normally get a roll to avoid acting on impulse, but you can forgo the roll (and the book states it's generally good roleplaying to forgo the roll.) On the other hand, she might just have really bad dice rolls.

Eh. I don't think it matters whether she has an extra strong version of the disadvantage or if she just by default forgoes the roll. Either way the result is the same: with her, thought equals action.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

I mean Pandora awakened Justin later to mess with Luke, maybe Pandora awakened Rhoda as well? I dunno, I guess it depends on how often Rhoda used her spell once she figured out she had one, but based on Pandora's first talk with Sarah, she would have needed to use it sparingly enough to not let the ambient energy do all the work.

I think she awakened him before that, once his power level had increased to the point that she could.

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2 hours ago, Scotty said:

I want to believe it would be when Catalina and Rhoda went to the beach and Catalina noticed it after they got into their swimsuits. That would be the most likely scenario.

I want to believe it was in some more sexy opportunity, but I agree the beach is more likely.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

And waaaiit II: Rhoda HAD a mark? Is she using past tense because she no longer have it? That would mean she awakened!

Possible? I mean Pandora awakened Justin later to mess with Luke, maybe Pandora awakened Rhoda as well?

Why do you think so? I think awakening Justin (and anyone else) was simply next step in plan for more magic. Which obviously makes MORE likely she also awakened Rhoda, if she trained enough ...

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

It's also possible she used past tense to refer to when she(or they) first noticed the mark.

Yes. That's the boring option.

 

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35 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Why do you think so? I think awakening Justin (and anyone else) was simply next step in plan for more magic.

We know Pandora likes to troll mortals, Sarah's question mark being proof of that. Luke finding a mark on Justin would have been boring, but not finding a mark left them not knowing that Justin was marked to begin with, they're making assumptions and Pandora would rather see people making assumptions because either they assume correctly which might surprise her, or they assume wrong and make things amusing for her.

40 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Which obviously makes MORE likely she also awakened Rhoda, if she trained enough ...

Which goes to my mention of Rhoda using the spell often after discovering it, but again we don't know exactly when that happened, it could have been days after the boar, or near the end of summer, or even a couple weeks before the NP takes place. Also we don't know how long it should take someone to awaken after their marked, Justin was awakened by Pandora 9 months after she marked him, Susan had her angst induced awakening nearly 2 years after being marked. Considering Susan used the hammers often enough to earn the title of Hammer Queen, plus the chest of items she's probably used a few times, I'd be willing to say Susan could be closest to a relatively natural awakening, at least in terms of anyone being in Moperville prior to the energy clog. There's also the fact that we don't actually know what a natural awakening looks like, is there some feeling a person gets? A flash of light? Or does the person accidentally use a new spell that they wouldn't have had with the mark?

Rhoda would have the advantage of higher ambient energy letting her use the spell if she didn't have enough of her own energy pool, but as I also stated it wouldn't help of she used it too frequently and letting the ambient energy do the work. At most, Rhoda would have 5 months between the incident with the boar and Halloween, is that enough time to awaken?

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"ESCAPE FROM THE MALL" Looks like the title of a movie they force into the dialogue or narration of a movie trailer.

Dan, convince me I should take four hours and spend over $100 dollars to bring a few friends to the theatre and see Catalina Bobcat in "ESCAPE FROM THE MALL"

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11 hours ago, Scotty said:

http://www.egscomics.com/egsnp.php?id=521

Of course, this is Catalina we're talking about, she wants to keep others from finding out, but is overthinking things.

Begin hijinks.

Yes, it's about time. 

10 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Possibly in Catalina's case, the correct definition is that thought equals action. She thinks fast, then without further ado puts her thoughts into action.

Some people have no filter between "thought" and "speaking".  Syd in Grrl Power, for example.  Or me on a bad day.  Cat has no filter between "thought" and "action" a much rarer problem.  Would be horrible to have, but I've got to admit, can be fun to watch, in that "train wreck" sort of way.

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1 hour ago, mlooney said:

Some people have no filter between "thought" and "speaking".  Syd in Grrl Power, for example.  Or me on a bad day.  Cat has no filter between "thought" and "action" a much rarer problem.  Would be horrible to have, but I've got to admit, can be fun to watch, in that "train wreck" sort of way.

I've noticed that some people have the filter but are subject to having it drop temporarily out of action. A good example would be a Foglio Spark in the height of a Spark fugue state or possibly Doc and Roger from The Whiteboard in the rapture of invention. (Come to think of it, these two examples seem all but identical.)

Of course, a great many people are subject to bypassing the filter altogether in times of crisis. If you only have about a second or less in which to respond to a situation, you often act on the first impulse that pops into your head. In that case the only way to block impulse that I know of is to have previously trained for that kind of situation. Example: getting shot at. An ordinary person might freeze, drop or run but would probably not stand still while debating options. A trained soldier might reflexively roll for cover and return fire.

(This happened to me in the Home Guard. I was in a patrol unit in which we among other things had to learn how to do basic fighting in the woods. At one point the sergeant walked us through a course in which he explained various sorts of scenarios. As we went past a clump of trees, he told us, "Imagine that there's a lone enemy hiding in there opening fire on you. If that happens, all of you charge him, then one of you might get him. If you just drop where you are now, you'll be pinned down and he'll be able to pick you off at his leisure."

That very same night we got sent out on an exercise patrol where that exact scenario happened. The instructors even had it happen in the precise spot we'd received the lesson. I didn't even think, I just charged right at the shooter and when I reached him I told him he had been bayoneted to death. Then I turned around and saw that ALL THE OTHERS had just dropped where they stood. I was very glad this was not real war, if it had been, the shooter would have shot me first and then done just as the sergeant said, picked the rest off at his leisure. The entire tactic was obviously based on him being swarmed and one of us getting him but somehow a one-man swarm strikes me as less likely to succeed in swamping an enemy...)

 

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2 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

I've noticed that some people have the filter but are subject to having it drop temporarily out of action. A good example would be a Foglio Spark in the height of a Spark fugue state or possibly Doc and Roger from The Whiteboard in the rapture of invention. (Come to think of it, these two examples seem all but identical.)

Of course, a great many people are subject to bypassing the filter altogether in times of crisis. If you only have about a second or less in which to respond to a situation, you often act on the first impulse that pops into your head. In that case the only way to block impulse that I know of is to have previously trained for that kind of situation. Example: getting shot at. An ordinary person might freeze, drop or run but would probably not stand still while debating options. A trained soldier might reflexively roll for cover and return fire.

(This happened to me in the Home Guard. I was in a patrol unit in which we among other things had to learn how to do basic fighting in the woods. At one point the sergeant walked us through a course in which he explained various sorts of scenarios. As we went past a clump of trees, he told us, "Imagine that there's a lone enemy hiding in there opening fire on you. If that happens, all of you charge him, then one of you might get him. If you just drop where you are now, you'll be pinned down and he'll be able to pick you off at his leisure."

That very same night we got sent out on an exercise patrol where that exact scenario happened. The instructors even had it happen in the precise spot we'd received the lesson. I didn't even think, I just charged right at the shooter and when I reached him I told him he had been bayoneted to death. Then I turned around and saw that ALL THE OTHERS had just dropped where they stood. I was very glad this was not real war, if it had been, the shooter would have shot me first and then done just as the sergeant said, picked the rest off at his leisure. The entire tactic was obviously based on him being swarmed and one of us getting him but somehow a one-man swarm strikes me as less likely to succeed in swamping an enemy...)

 

"Charge the ambush" is (or was) the US Army tactic as well.  Of course a smart ambush team will put some sort of barrier or a few mines between them and the kill zone.  A single stand of barbed wire at about knee high is a very good thing to put up, works better an night I'll grant.  During the summer of 83 when I was part of the OpFor for the desert part of the Ranger school (before they got all serious about Ranger training, which the discovered they needed during the Grenada and Panama "expeditions") we used that for all our night time ambushes.  One fairly bright class sent a "scout" about 2 seconds ahead of the main party.  The main party saw the scout trip, they the all jumped the line when the got to where the scout was laying.  I thing some of them even used him as a "bridge".  If you are wearing flack vests or better body armor you can do that with out really hurting the bridge dude.  That class was one of the few that avoided a total kill in all their ambushes.  As apposed the the class of all 2nd Lt, who took 80% "casualties" during the first ambush, where they were told "just over that sand dune you will be ambushed.  Be ready for it."  They were not.  The tactical sergeants and officers after that gave that class hell.  When I ask why they were being that hard on them, given that the desert phase was the first tactical training phase, so being extremely tough on a class (vs just tough on a class, which was always the case) I was told "These guys are going to be platoon leaders, and if they keep screwing1 up like that they will get good troops killed."  We took that to heart and after the first ambush, we got real sneaky, doing things we didn't do to other classes, like using single man sniper style ambushes, taking the MILES (the laser gun used in training) off a .50 cal machine gun and putting it on a M-16 and using that as a sniper (about 3 times the range), crap like that.

1He did not say screw up, but this the work safe term.

 

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19 hours ago, Scotty said:
20 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Why do you think so? I think awakening Justin (and anyone else) was simply next step in plan for more magic.

We know Pandora likes to troll mortals, Sarah's question mark being proof of that. Luke finding a mark on Justin would have been boring, but not finding a mark left them not knowing that Justin was marked to begin with, they're making assumptions and Pandora would rather see people making assumptions because either they assume correctly which might surprise her, or they assume wrong and make things amusing for her.

Yes, it would make sense, and she could even predict it and awaken Justin in advance. I just think that no matter how she likes to troll mortals, she wanted to awaken all people she marked as soon as possible as part of her quest to make magic more common, which she was doing for FAMILY (more important than trolling).

19 hours ago, Scotty said:

Which goes to my mention of Rhoda using the spell often after discovering it, but again we don't know exactly when that happened, it could have been days after the boar, or near the end of summer, or even a couple weeks before the NP takes place. Also we don't know how long it should take someone to awaken after their marked, Justin was awakened by Pandora 9 months after she marked him, Susan had her angst induced awakening nearly 2 years after being marked. Considering Susan used the hammers often enough to earn the title of Hammer Queen, plus the chest of items she's probably used a few times, I'd be willing to say Susan could be closest to a relatively natural awakening, at least in terms of anyone being in Moperville prior to the energy clog. There's also the fact that we don't actually know what a natural awakening looks like, is there some feeling a person gets? A flash of light? Or does the person accidentally use a new spell that they wouldn't have had with the mark?

Rhoda would have the advantage of higher ambient energy letting her use the spell if she didn't have enough of her own energy pool, but as I also stated it wouldn't help of she used it too frequently and letting the ambient energy do the work. At most, Rhoda would have 5 months between the incident with the boar and Halloween, is that enough time to awaken?

The training is not ONLY function of time. Hammers likely provided some training, but not much, considering they were powered by Jerry at that time. And we don't know how much she used her chest. And, I would think Pandora can awaken people sooner than angst.

Angst-based awakening IS natural awakening. I think awakening is either triggered by immortal (or some other magic stuff happening, like dewitchery diamond) or by strong emotion. And the emotion-based awakening are probably hard to miss, although Susan's likely wasn't exactly average.

We should compare Rhoda more with Justin than with Susan. But, we don't know much about how long it took Justin and how much he used his spell ...

9 hours ago, mlooney said:

"Charge the ambush" is (or was) the US Army tactic as well. 

Sounds like zerg tactics to me ... but I guess without force fields there's no better alternative for infantry ... I mean, you rarely happen to be ambushed next to conveniently placed terrain bump you can all hide behind ...

 

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

The training is not ONLY function of time. Hammers likely provided some training, but not much, considering they were powered by Jerry at that time. And we don't know how much she used her chest. And, I would think Pandora can awaken people sooner than angst.

Awakening naturally is based on how much energy you can generate yourself, the amount is increased by using spells frequently enough, like exercise. Justin was able to use basic illusions due to his ASMA training before he was marked so he probably had enough magic energy to be awakened any time between getting marked and the card tournament. Susan didn't have any prior experience with magic when she was marked so she probably didn't have much more energy than Sarah at first.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Angst-based awakening IS natural awakening. I think awakening is either triggered by immortal (or some other magic stuff happening, like dewitchery diamond) or by strong emotion. And the emotion-based awakening are probably hard to miss, although Susan's likely wasn't exactly average.

The angst-induced awakened was natural, yes, but if she didn't have one, how long do you think she would have gone before something else triggered it. Immortal awakenings are kinda cheaty as they really aren't natural, but they don't have the side effects of an unnatural awakening like touching the dewitchery diamond. As far as non-emotional awakenings go, I don't know for sure how one would know they've awakened aside from accidentally casting a brand new spell. Maybe those that are actually training to be magic users have a spell book linked to them once they've been able to cast their first spell, and then they just keep checking as they training  to find out if they get something new to indicate they've awakened.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

We should compare Rhoda more with Justin than with Susan. But, we don't know much about how long it took Justin and how much he used his spell ...

As I said in the first part of this post, Justin had a head start with his magic training, quite possibly a few months before Susan was marked as Elliot introduced Justin to the ASMA class during freshman year while Susan was marked during the summer after freshman year. Justin might not have used his first illusion till after Susan was marked but he still would have been getting himself primed for magic and was definitely ahead in power when he was marked compared to Rhoda.

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20 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Awakening naturally is based on how much energy you can generate yourself, the amount is increased by using spells frequently enough, like exercise. Justin was able to use basic illusions due to his ASMA training before he was marked so he probably had enough magic energy to be awakened any time between getting marked and the card tournament. Susan didn't have any prior experience with magic when she was marked so she probably didn't have much more energy than Sarah at first.

True. I don't think Justin was THAT close to awakening, but he definitely had some headstart.

(Remember, the ASMA training is magic, but you will exhaust yourself physically before you exhaust your magic, so not that effective).

21 minutes ago, Scotty said:

The angst-induced awakened was natural, yes, but if she didn't have one, how long do you think she would have gone before something else triggered it.

Well ... let's see ... what happened to Susan since then ... here? Looks like very strong emotion. Would likely give her completely different spell.

(Of course, it IS possible Susan is experiencing strong emotions even of-panel.)

I think that with more and more training, the trigger gets lighter and lighter.

30 minutes ago, Scotty said:

As far as non-emotional awakenings go, I don't know for sure how one would know they've awakened aside from accidentally casting a brand new spell.

I think that only way to awake non-emotionally is with immortal, and that USUALLY (not counting Pandora's bending rules) involves letting the person know she's awakened. On the other hand, just because awakening is triggered by emotion doesn't mean you realize what happened.

32 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Maybe those that are actually training to be magic users have a spell book linked to them once they've been able to cast their first spell, and then they just keep checking as they training  to find out if they get something new to indicate they've awakened.

Those training to be magic users without being marked don't have ANY spell until they awaken.

34 minutes ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

We should compare Rhoda more with Justin than with Susan. But, we don't know much about how long it took Justin and how much he used his spell ...

As I said in the first part of this post, Justin had a head start with his magic training, quite possibly a few months before Susan was marked as Elliot introduced Justin to the ASMA class during freshman year while Susan was marked during the summer after freshman year. Justin might not have used his first illusion till after Susan was marked but he still would have been getting himself primed for magic and was definitely ahead in power when he was marked compared to Rhoda.

Yes, I forgot to take that into account. That means we have NO comparison. Every case we have is different.

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Nanase had enough power from her ASMA training that Les Immortals wee able to Awaken her right away.  Nanase was the best in the school, with Elliot a close second, and Justin third.  It's not impossible that Justin was almost powerful enough to Awaken directly when Pandora found him, and only needed to be Marked a very short time before he built up enough additional energy for Pandora to Awaken him.

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16 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Well ... let's see ... what happened to Susan since then ... here? Looks like very strong emotion. Would likely give her completely different spell.

Susan has several moments prior to her angst-induced awakening that could be considered strong emotions, the numerous times she was reminded of her dad's cheating, her feelings during the ordeal with the uniforms, of course magic having a flair for the dramatic could have played into it, like "Angst over dad? No. Angst over high school drama? No. Angst over origin of the hammers? Sure!"

I'm not sure if the example you give would fit as being strong enough to trigger an awakening though, even the examples I gave might be pushing it. If I were to choose examples of strong enough emotions to trigger an awakening, I'd go with Ellen's concern for Nanase's life causing her to fire a super charged beam at Vlad, Elliot's sudden change into cat form when Hedge first attacked him and Sarah might have been due to his concern for Sarah's safety as well or maybe him being able to change again without as much exhaustion when he felt that surrendering to Damien would put Ellen in danger of becoming breeding stock for him. If Nanase wasn't already awakened, her determination for protecting Ellen and fear of losing her would certainly have been enough to trigger one.

For Ellen and Elliot's examples, I'm not going to claim that it's what actually triggered their awakenings, the timeline would seem right for it and Ellen's super amped beam might be considered a new spell, but the fact that they had energy buildups doesn't allow it to fit properly, they could have technically been awakened immediately by the diamond when Elliot touched it, and it took a couple months for the energy buildups to reach critical, or they could have just spontaneously awakened  when each of them first had their accidental transformation.

16 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I think that only way to awake non-emotionally is with immortal, and that USUALLY (not counting Pandora's bending rules) involves letting the person know she's awakened. On the other hand, just because awakening is triggered by emotion doesn't mean you realize what happened.

16 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Those training to be magic users without being marked don't have ANY spell until they awaken.

Then, how did Elliot, Nanase, and Justin learn basic illusion magic without being marked?

Maybe mages in training have to endure physical training in order to get their first spell. I guess you could say that there'd be strong emotion involved with that.

1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

Nanase had enough power from her ASMA training that Les Immortals wee able to Awaken her right away.  Nanase was the best in the school, with Elliot a close second, and Justin third.  It's not impossible that Justin was almost powerful enough to Awaken directly when Pandora found him, and only needed to be Marked a very short time before he built up enough additional energy for Pandora to Awaken him.

I'd be willing to bet Nanase did have some basic illusion magic before she was awakened. I also believe that Nanase's a special case as well given her family lineage, she probably would have awakened on her own if Helena and Demetrius didn't awaken her.

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