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Stature

Story Friday August 11, 2017

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The last panel is really strange. The light-colored Pandora is speaking in the first person, and everything else in the panel is faded--exactly the convention Dan has consistently used to indicate beings that are on a different plane, invisible to anyone not on that plane. Pandora has split herself into four editions twice, but those were both on the same plane as everyone else.

Could this really mean that Pandora is splitting into two parts for good? Or is Dan just using a variation on the old devil-angel trope like Good Diane/Bad Diane or Susan's four shoulder buddies (Logic, Curiosity, Nature, and Nurture).

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I'm glad The Dan said this is not the end panel for this scene.  Otherwise, I would be more confused than I am now, and that is saying a lot.

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4 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Could this really mean that Pandora is splitting into two parts for good? Or is Dan just using a variation on the old devil-angel trope like Good Diane/Bad Diane or Susan's four shoulder buddies (Logic, Curiosity, Nature, and Nurture).

I'm thinking it's the latter, that she's speaking to herself internally like Susan and Diane have done.

It is interesting that the "New" Pandora is dressed like her 150 year old self, The form used to talk to Tedd looked more like her roughly 200 year old self.

The "I'm not certain, but sometime soon" coupled with "I'm going to wind up hurting her" really makes me believe that Pandora is planning on resetting once the dam's been taken care of and she's talked to Adrian. She still has no clue what's going to happen later though.

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2 hours ago, Scotty said:

I'm thinking it's the latter, that she's speaking to herself internally like Susan and Diane have done.

It is interesting that the "New" Pandora is dressed like her 150 year old self, The form used to talk to Tedd looked more like her roughly 200 year old self.

The "I'm not certain, but sometime soon" coupled with "I'm going to wind up hurting her" really makes me believe that Pandora is planning on resetting once the dam's been taken care of and she's talked to Adrian. She still has no clue what's going to happen later though.

That makes perfect sense.

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5 hours ago, Scotty said:

The "I'm not certain, but sometime soon" coupled with "I'm going to wind up hurting her" really makes me believe that Pandora is planning on resetting once the dam's been taken care of and she's talked to Adrian. She still has no clue what's going to happen later though.

Or she can sense a not-necessarily-voluntary reset coming.

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2 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Or she can sense a not-necessarily-voluntary reset coming.

Could be, if what Old Jerry said was right. The reason Pandora gets bored so much is that so much is predictable to her. While she doesn't seem to know about Voltaire's or Sirleck's or Magus' plans, Pandora does know that another Immortal is menacing Tedd, and that fighting that Immortal is quite likely to put her over the line into an involuntary reset--or maybe even real death.

Pandora started out on her quest to help Tedd after her son broke her heart with his "Father would hate what you've become" remark. Pandora was afraid she'd gone too far during her encounter with Tedd after the "bend worlds to your will" bit. Pandora did admit at one point quite awhile ago that she overreacted with Magus. This supports the idea that Pandora has decided she must reset soon before she harms people she's grown to love. So that's two reasons for Pandora has realized she's made promises to Sarah and Tedd she may not be keeping.

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12 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Pandora started out on her quest to help Tedd after her son broke her heart with his "Father would hate what you've become" remark. Pandora was afraid she'd gone too far during her encounter with Tedd after the "bend worlds to your will" bit. Pandora did admit at one point quite awhile ago that she overreacted with Magus. This supports the idea that Pandora has decided she must reset soon before she harms people she's grown to love. So that's two reasons for Pandora has realized she's made promises to Sarah and Tedd she may not be keeping.

As with Jerry she may have to keep them in her next life.

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2 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

As with Jerry she may have to keep them in her next life.

If she has a next life. Also, this presumes that Pandora will have enough time to properly reset. Even if she does reset, if she does it improperly, she could wind up as clueless as Helena and Demetrius.

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1 minute ago, Tom Sewell said:

If she has a next life. Also, this presumes that Pandora will have enough time to properly reset. Even if she does reset, if she does it improperly, she could wind up as clueless as Helena and Demetrius.

But H&D remembered one important thing to them.  In their case: follow Elliot.  In Pandora's case it could be her son or Tedd.  Or both.

We know that Vows last past a reset.  Pandora not matter how clueless will be reminded that she vowed to help Sarah.

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Just now, Vorlonagent said:

We know that Vows last past a reset.  Pandora not matter how clueless will be reminded that she vowed to help Sarah.

No, we don't know. Jerry had a proper reset. Edward's explanation of Immortal vows didn't cover resets. In fact, Edward has never mentioned Immortal resetting at all. Helena and Demetrius' fixation on watching Elliot might have something to do with a vow, but since they don't remember why they're doing it, we don't know.

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30 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

No, we don't know. Jerry had a proper reset. Edward's explanation of Immortal vows didn't cover resets. In fact, Edward has never mentioned Immortal resetting at all. Helena and Demetrius' fixation on watching Elliot might have something to do with a vow, but since they don't remember why they're doing it, we don't know.

I'm inclined to think a Vow is not something an Immortal remembers the way an Immortal remembers their past life.  I guess we should be calling Jerry's new life "not-Jerry" since he doesn't use the name.....  not-Jerry experiences his Vow a lot more strongly than he remembers Jerry's life.  I'm inclined to think a vow is an Immortal magic effect.  (they don't really cast spells per se)  not a memory.

I'm also inclined to think H&D's desire to follow Elliot is not a vow simply because they were able to stop following Elliot and manipulate Andrea into Vampire splaying.

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3 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

I'm also inclined to think H&D's desire to follow Elliot is not a vow simply because they were able to stop following Elliot and manipulate Andrea into Vampire splaying.

Or they could have made a vow to destroy every vampire they located ASAP.

Come to think of it, at least to me, Pandora's extermination of werewolves sounds quite a lot like fulfilling a vow she might have made after Blaike was killed by one of them.

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It makes me wonder if multiple vows can be made by an Immortal with the possibility of one vow conflicting with another or forcing the Immortal to multitask. multiple vows might make things complicated in the event of an improper reset.

Or maybe a vow made in haste. Like Helena and Demetrius learn of Elliot being in danger just prior to their improper reset and so they made a quick vow to make sure they stayed involved and not bugger off in their next lives.

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3 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Or maybe a vow made in haste. Like Helena and Demetrius learn of Elliot being in danger just prior to their improper reset and so they made a quick vow to make sure they stayed involved and not bugger off in their next lives.

I agree with your idea that a hasty vow just made before an involuntary reset could screw up things, but since I think that the most likely cause of the H&D reset was witnessing how traumatized Susan was after she killed the vampire in France, I would think said vow would be about Susan, or vampires, or both. Susan was familiar to them, but they didn't seem to remember much else.

Exactly why were Helen and Demetrius in France? If they'd been there for any amount of time, they should have had at least once contact with the French equivalent of Edward's outfit; who else is likely to have professional vampire slayers on staff? So why didn't they get local help?

The other thing they sort of remembered was they were following someone when they encountered Susan and Nanase. But Demetrius said it didn't make sense because why were they following Elliot?

I was about to float another Amazing Crackpot Plot Theory, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately for you) my darned logic talked me out of it before I had time to write it down.

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2 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

but since I think that the most likely cause of the H&D reset was witnessing how traumatized Susan was after she killed the vampire in France, I would think said vow would be about Susan, or vampires, or both. Susan was familiar to them, but they didn't seem to remember much else.

Exactly why were Helen and Demetrius in France? If they'd been there for any amount of time, they should have had at least once contact with the French equivalent of Edward's outfit; who else is likely to have professional vampire slayers on staff? So why didn't they get local help?

The other thing they sort of remembered was they were following someone when they encountered Susan and Nanase. But Demetrius said it didn't make sense because why were they following Elliot?

They were following someone in France, it was either Nanase or Susan, they don't know why, but there was a reason they were there. One possibility for why Helena and Demetrius didn't go to the authorities about the vampire, is that maybe that would mean getting Noriko involved?

Would that crackpot theory be along the lines of Mama Kitsune knowing that Noriko was in France and wanted Helena and Demetrius to follow Nanase to make sure they kept Nanase from meeting Noriko?

My theory would be that Helena and Demetrius was asked by Noriko to awaken Nanase, maybe Noriko knew Nanase's potential and either secretly decided that she'd be suitable for continuing the family tradition of monster hunting, or maybe she realized that her work was making enemies that could target her family and so she wanted Nanase to be able to protect Tedd. Susan might have just been caught up in family drama. Either way that wouldn't be cause for an improper reset.

 

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7 minutes ago, Scotty said:

My theory would be that Helena and Demetrius was asked by Noriko to awaken Nanase, maybe Noriko knew Nanase's potential and either secretly decided that she'd be suitable for continuing the family tradition of monster hunting, or maybe she realized that her work was making enemies that could target her family and so she wanted Nanase to be able to protect Tedd. Susan might have just been caught up in family drama. Either way that wouldn't be cause for an improper reset.

I don't think anybody asked H&D to awaken Nanase.  I think they decided to awaken Nanase and threw jump-starting Susan's Vampire Hunter heritage into the bargain. 

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2 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Would that crackpot theory be along the lines of Mama Kitsune knowing that Noriko was in France and wanted Helena and Demetrius to follow Nanase to make sure they kept Nanase from meeting Noriko?

Nope, but your theory intrigues me. Mine was that Adrian asked them to watch over Susan. Logic nagged me that it would only work if Adrian knew Susan was his daughter. Since Adrian seems to have lived mostly in Europe before coming to the United States, he could have known H&D from way back.

I think Mama Kitsune could have protected Nanase by simply refusing to let her go to France. But then again, why does Mama Kitsune want Nanase to master French?

 

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2 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

I think Mama Kitsune could have protected Nanase by simply refusing to let her go to France. But then again, why does Mama Kitsune want Nanase to master French?

Considering their tri-lingualism includes French, I would think that some of their ancestors were either French or Japanese that had immigrated to France before immigrating to America, so I think it would make sense if Noriko had moved back to France after the divorce. We know Mama Kitsune know's more than she lets on, but how much she knows is uncertain, we could easily assume she's in the know about Immortals if Adrian told her as much as he told Edward and Noriko.

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4 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

I don't think anybody asked H&D to awaken Nanase.  I think they decided to awaken Nanase and threw jump-starting Susan's Vampire Hunter heritage into the bargain.

Could be. But how did they know about Nanase?  They just happened to be nearby when Susan was attacked? Paris is a large city, and we're not even sure the attack happened in Paris, only that it happened in France.

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13 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

But then again, why does Mama Kitsune want Nanase to master French?

Duh, to take Nanase's aunt's place.

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24 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Could be. But how did they know about Nanase?  They just happened to be nearby when Susan was attacked? Paris is a large city, and we're not even sure the attack happened in Paris, only that it happened in France.

I think the Vampire attack on Susan was a setup.  The immortals arranged it though I am not sure how.  It furnished the two immortals with an excuse to "Guide and Empower" without looking creepy.

I further think Susan getting paired with Nanase for the France trip was also a setup.

The Immortals get a three-fer out of it

  • Nanase awakened
  • Susan dreaming and working toward awakening
  • Dead vampire.  They really seem to like dead vampires.

With the possible bonus of Nanase and Susan teaming up when they "turn pro", though that last bit appears to be going to Ellen.  C'est la vie...

Edit: The Immortals knew about Nanase because they knew Moperville (proof of this: they knew who Elliot was and thought it was important enough to hold onto that info through an improper reset)  if Elliot could show up on their radar, so could Susan.

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1 minute ago, Vorlonagent said:

It furnished the two immortals with an excuse to "Guide and Empower" without looking creepy.

Except that they reset improperly soon after this, quite possibly because of this. Still, a good theory as to their motivation. Whatever else, "kill all vampires" still seems to be their Prime Directive. 

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