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Scotty

Story, Wednesday September 13, 2017

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And again, magical weapons Susan summoned from her chest were described as good for only one hit, and the Aberrations are especially vulnerable to them.  So, she can summon a sword, whack an aberration once with it, the sword vanishes but the aberration dies.  If there's another Aberration coming, she can summon that same sword again as soon as the first summoning vanishes, for as long as her summoning power holds out.  There's no damage done to the sword in the chest, so each summons is a new perfect undamaged replica.

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22 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

And again, magical weapons Susan summoned from her chest were described as good for only one hit, and the Aberrations are especially vulnerable to them.  So, she can summon a sword, whack an aberration once with it, the sword vanishes but the aberration dies.  If there's another Aberration coming, she can summon that same sword again as soon as the first summoning vanishes, for as long as her summoning power holds out.  There's no damage done to the sword in the chest, so each summons is a new perfect undamaged replica.

The summoned replica might break even DURING the first hit. And her life might literally depend on it, so not good moment to risk. (Although it's true that IF she had no other option, it would affect fight with summoned weapon less than with physical replicas, so would be worth the try. But as we said, Susan CAN afford to buy real sword and considering she STILL has PTSD from her experience in France she's very likely to not be sloppy with such decision.)

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

The summoned replica might break even DURING the first hit. And her life might literally depend on it, so not good moment to risk. (Although it's true that IF she had no other option, it would affect fight with summoned weapon less than with physical replicas, so would be worth the try. But as we said, Susan CAN afford to buy real sword and considering she STILL has PTSD from her experience in France she's very likely to not be sloppy with such decision.)

I think we're in general agreement here, and just got side-tracked by debating possibilities rather than likely scenarios.  I'm sure Susan did get a good-quality sword, not a flimsy replica, but also not wasting time and money finding the top-of-the-line.  She'd go for something sturdy and reliable but not especially flashy or specialized.  I get the feeling Susan is in that range of wealth where she could probably get anything she really wants, but not everything she wants, if you get the distinction.  Plus, as her texting habits earlier showed, she's not one to waste money needlessly.

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9 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

I think we're in general agreement here, and just got side-tracked by debating possibilities rather than likely scenarios.  I'm sure Susan did get a good-quality sword, not a flimsy replica, but also not wasting time and money finding the top-of-the-line.  She'd go for something sturdy and reliable but not especially flashy or specialized.  I get the feeling Susan is in that range of wealth where she could probably get anything she really wants, but not everything she wants, if you get the distinction.  Plus, as her texting habits earlier showed, she's not one to waste money needlessly.

I would imagine that Helena and Demetrius would have had solidly constructed weapons in the original chest for Susan to use, they probably created them themself so I doubt they'd be cheap replicas and yet their summons versions were only good for 1 good hit.

Mind you that was immediately after she was marked. We did see Susan using a summoned sword during the goo fight and she still had it after Grace did her thing, so it might be possible that as she used her magic more she was able to keep the summoned items longer. And after she awakened, it's possible her summoned weapons would be as durable if not more durable than their real versions.

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16 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

I think we're in general agreement here, and just got side-tracked by debating possibilities rather than likely scenarios.

It did seem true to me as well.

16 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

I'm sure Susan did get a good-quality sword, not a flimsy replica, but also not wasting time and money finding the top-of-the-line.  She'd go for something sturdy and reliable but not especially flashy or specialized.

She probably wasn't able to contact any of those almost-mythical sword makers who makes swords capable of breaking other swords. Ignoring those, there is sort of "standard quality", meaning the more expensive swords are not better in fight but only prettier or more historically accurate - and Susan doesn't need either (and is unlikely to pay for it when she doesn't need it).

17 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

I get the feeling Susan is in that range of wealth where she could probably get anything she really wants, but not everything she wants, if you get the distinction.  Plus, as her texting habits earlier showed, she's not one to waste money needlessly.

I suspect she wouldn't be able to get airplane even if she really wanted but otherwise yes on both.

And given her working in video rental store, she seem to also trying to get independent. Her own wealth is probably not so big, but if she needs something more expensive she can always ask mom.

7 hours ago, Scotty said:

I would imagine that Helena and Demetrius would have had solidly constructed weapons in the original chest for Susan to use, they probably created them themself

... I don't think so, although they might empowered and guide someone to make them. I would think those are OLD weapons. Possibly original Damascus steel, even.

7 hours ago, Scotty said:

I doubt they'd be cheap replicas and yet their summons versions were only good for 1 good hit.

The "only good for 1 good hit" is definitely limit of the summoning spell, yes. IMHO unlike sword, it would need special "talent" to make a mace which wouldn't be able to make more than one hit.

7 hours ago, Scotty said:

Mind you that was immediately after she was marked. We did see Susan using a summoned sword during the goo fight and she still had it after Grace did her thing, so it might be possible that as she used her magic more she was able to keep the summoned items longer. And after she awakened, it's possible her summoned weapons would be as durable if not more durable than their real versions.

She MIGHT re-summon it. In fact she probably did, as I don't think the mark spell COULD change (or the goo was so gooish/mushy it didn't counted as hit). However, I agree that after awakening, she could easily get durability upgrade. Note the aura thing: depending on how confusingly the spellbook was written, enhanced durability may be sideeffect or even main effect of the aura.

 

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On 9/19/2017 at 10:08 AM, Scotty said:

I would imagine that Helena and Demetrius would have had solidly constructed weapons in the original chest for Susan to use, they probably created them themself so I doubt they'd be cheap replicas and yet their summons versions were only good for 1 good hit.

Mind you that was immediately after she was marked. We did see Susan using a summoned sword during the goo fight and she still had it after Grace did her thing, so it might be possible that as she used her magic more she was able to keep the summoned items longer. And after she awakened, it's possible her summoned weapons would be as durable if not more durable than their real versions.

She may have re-summoned it multiple times, or the goo may have parted around the sword so there was no real impact.

On 9/19/2017 at 6:07 PM, hkmaly said:

 there is sort of "standard quality", meaning the more expensive swords are not better in fight but only prettier or more historically accurate - and Susan doesn't need either (and is unlikely to pay for it when she doesn't need it).

Not much point to having an extra-durable sword when it's going to disappear after one good hit.  Sharpness might count, but again, if it's against an Aberration, then they're more vulnerable to magical weapons, so it probably doesn't have to be all that sharp.

On 9/19/2017 at 6:07 PM, hkmaly said:

I suspect she wouldn't be able to get airplane even if she really wanted but otherwise yes on both.

*googles*  Hmm, you can get an airplane for $15,000, and a trip to France with Road Scholar is about $5000.  If her mom could send her to France on a whim, then I'd say that if Susan really wanted to get a plane, and the flying lessons to go with it, then her mom could manage it.  Might mean that that would be the only thing she'd get for Christmas and birthday for a few years....or it might not.

On 9/19/2017 at 6:07 PM, hkmaly said:

And given her working in video rental store, she seem to also trying to get independent. Her own wealth is probably not so big, but if she needs something more expensive she can always ask mom.

Yes, I definitely think Susan working at the video store is her own idea, seeking some independence and a sense of being more normal.  Of course, kids who grow up never having to go without dental care, cutting slits in their sneakers so they can wear them a bit longer when their feet got too big, or eating ketchup sandwiches, will probably never really know what it's like to start from nothing.  Susan has a huge head start even if she does earn her own money for an apartment or spending money or whatever.  And that's the way it should be, it's just a sad reality that it isn't so for everyone.

On 9/19/2017 at 6:07 PM, hkmaly said:

... I don't think so, although they might empowered and guide someone to make them. I would think those are OLD weapons. Possibly original Damascus steel, even.

I doubt Susan was able to bring back a sword in her luggage.  She probably had to start over filling a new chest after she got home.

On 9/19/2017 at 6:07 PM, hkmaly said:

I don't think the mark spell COULD change

That's a good question.  Do we have any evidence of a Mark-based spell changing before the caster Awoke and lost the Mark?

 

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13 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

I doubt Susan was able to bring back a sword in her luggage.  She probably had to start over filling a new chest after she got home.

In carry-on luggage, probably not. In checked luggage, probably no big deal. (We once forgot that there was a meat cleaver left in a suitcase from a road trip. At the airport we were randomly picked for luggage search. The guy pulled out the cleaver, looked at it, and said "Good thing you're checking this suitcase.")

Or she could have the whole chest shipped.

Or sweet-talk the fairies about where they put her chest when it's first established.

(Or, of course, start over on a new chest when she gets home.)

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20 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
Quote

I suspect she wouldn't be able to get airplane even if she really wanted but otherwise yes on both.

*googles*  Hmm, you can get an airplane for $15,000, and a trip to France with Road Scholar is about $5000.  If her mom could send her to France on a whim, then I'd say that if Susan really wanted to get a plane, and the flying lessons to go with it, then her mom could manage it.  Might mean that that would be the only thing she'd get for Christmas and birthday for a few years....or it might not.

Hmmmm ... ok. Apparently, you can even get jet for $15,000 (probably used, but still). And I though airplanes cost more than cars ... I should've look.

Not sure what is the price for flying lessons but yes this seems in range Susan might get for Christmas or two.

20 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Susan has a huge head start even if she does earn her own money for an apartment or spending money or whatever.  And that's the way it should be, it's just a sad reality that it isn't so for everyone.

Agree ... starting from zero is overrated. Of course, it wouldn't be for everyone until we get to post-scarcity society, but we are getting closer.

20 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
Quote

... I don't think so, although they might empowered and guide someone to make them. I would think those are OLD weapons. Possibly original Damascus steel, even.

I doubt Susan was able to bring back a sword in her luggage.  She probably had to start over filling a new chest after she got home.

Based on the "they would hide away" the possibility of getting those weapons was never on table. Helena and Demetrius likely kept them so they have something for NEXT person with summoning talent they want to send against vampires, just like Susan likely wasn't first one they marked with this or similar spell.

20 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
Quote

I don't think the mark spell COULD change

That's a good question.  Do we have any evidence of a Mark-based spell changing before the caster Awoke and lost the Mark?

Technically, Dex, but that was really exception.

7 hours ago, Don Edwards said:
20 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

I doubt Susan was able to bring back a sword in her luggage.  She probably had to start over filling a new chest after she got home.

In carry-on luggage, probably not. In checked luggage, probably no big deal. (We once forgot that there was a meat cleaver left in a suitcase from a road trip. At the airport we were randomly picked for luggage search. The guy pulled out the cleaver, looked at it, and said "Good thing you're checking this suitcase.")

It's possible that size of the sword will be bigger problem than the fact it's sword.

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15 hours ago, hkmaly said:
On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 9:07 PM, CritterKeeper said:
Quote

I don't think the mark spell COULD change

That's a good question.  Do we have any evidence of a Mark-based spell changing before the caster Awoke and lost the Mark?

Technically, Dex, but that was really exception.

It wasn't really a changed spell. The mysterious fighter of mystery with no name (Noah) confirmed that it was the same spell, just with different amounts of power applied. Theoretically, Dex could summon any kind of creature he wanted if he had enough power. The little fairy is around his limit without Voltaire's power boost (Which makes me hope he's been using his mark enough since then to not need the build-up from the dam to summon her.)

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7 hours ago, Drasvin said:

It wasn't really a changed spell. The mysterious fighter of mystery with no name (Noah) confirmed that it was the same spell, just with different amounts of power applied. Theoretically, Dex could summon any kind of creature he wanted if he had enough power. The little fairy is around his limit without Voltaire's power boost (Which makes me hope he's been using his mark enough since then to not need the build-up from the dam to summon her.)

We don't know if Dex' fairydoll is as impressive as Nanase's.  It probably isn't.  He could probably summon it without aid.  Even if he doesn't have the power, he could probably spend physical energy to finish the spell off.

I wouldn't think a Mark could change, though I have to admit "nothing is known to be impossible for magic other than time travel", so there might be some rare edge case where someone's Mark spell evolves before they Awaken.  It can't be a common case.

It's worth noting that those spells we've seen evolve, such as Elliot's Cheerleadra or Nanase's fairydoll spell add capabilities, but do not seem to subtract or alter what the spell already does (again, "Nothing is impossible for magic...blahblahblah" so there probably is an edge case or two of THAT out there as well)  nanase's fairydoll added "a "fae punch" subspell" and I assume Cheerleadra didn't start with the ability to act as a cell phone.

RE Dex: magic is somewhat pliable and changeable.  You can' change a spell to some degree if you push hard enough.  Dex was both guided and empowered by an Immortal (Voltaire), which is why he was able to take a fairydoll spell and summon a bulldog dragon and fireguys by the bushel.  Dex by himself has neither the power nor the skill to do much, if anything, besides a fairydoll.

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2 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Dex by himself has neither the power nor the skill to do much, if anything, besides a fairydoll.

"had".

I would assume he's been using that spell pretty much every day - he generally seems a lonely fellow - so he's built up a bit more power by now. How much more, to be determined maybe.

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21 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:
26 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Dex by himself has neither the power nor the skill to do much, if anything, besides a fairydoll.

"had".

I would assume he's been using that spell pretty much every day - he generally seems a lonely fellow - so he's built up a bit more power by now. How much more, to be determined maybe

I'm not entirely sure of that. I imagine he's still been summoning his little friend, but he made friends with Greg and became apart of his social circle. In a later comic, we saw Dex bummed out that the regular game had been cancelled because Greg had a new girlfriend. With a regular social group, he might not be lonely enough to warrant regularly summoning his fairy friend.

Though, to be clear, I imagine he still regularly summons her. He did say he liked her, and I doubt many gaming groups would object to having a fairy summon flit around during the game, especially when one of the group members is literally an anime-style martial artist.

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48 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

"had".

I would assume he's been using that spell pretty much every day - he generally seems a lonely fellow - so he's built up a bit more power by now. How much more, to be determined maybe.

I doubt Dex had the power to do much other than at most multiple fairydoll summons, unless Greg's been teaching him ASMA as well.

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1 hour ago, Vorlonagent said:
2 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

"had".

I would assume he's been using that spell pretty much every day - he generally seems a lonely fellow - so he's built up a bit more power by now. How much more, to be determined maybe.

I doubt Dex had the power to do much other than at most multiple fairydoll summons, unless Greg's been teaching him ASMA as well.

From what Noah had said, it implies that his limit on summoning is based on volume. So, if he can summon multiple fairies, then he could summon something with the same volume as multiple fairies...which might still not be much depending on how many that multiple is.

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6 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

From what Noah had said, it implies that his limit on summoning is based on volume. So, if he can summon multiple fairies, then he could summon something with the same volume as multiple fairies...which might still not be much depending on how many that multiple is.

Well, for something to be twice the size of one fairy, he would need to be able to summon 4,  for 3 times 9,  etc.   The square/cube law bites.

 

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Just now, mlooney said:
6 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

From what Noah had said, it implies that his limit on summoning is based on volume. So, if he can summon multiple fairies, then he could summon something with the same volume as multiple fairies...which might still not be much depending on how many that multiple is.

Well, for something to be twice the volume of one fairy, he would need to be able to summon 4,  for 3 times 9,  etc.   The square/cube law bites.

Yeah, square/cube law can be a pain. Though if the volume thing is true, that gives some insight into how much power Voltaire was pumping into him, as he could summon that big bulldog dragon and all of those fire dudes, along with pumping enough extra power into the dragon to make it unkillable. The heat coming off of Dex might have just been a side effect of all the power going into him, though that would raise the question of why Dex wasn't burnt to a crisp.

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13 hours ago, Drasvin said:

It wasn't really a changed spell. The mysterious fighter of mystery with no name (Noah) confirmed that it was the same spell, just with different amounts of power applied.

True. Still closest to changed mark spell we ever saw.

5 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:
13 hours ago, Drasvin said:

It wasn't really a changed spell. The mysterious fighter of mystery with no name (Noah) confirmed that it was the same spell, just with different amounts of power applied. Theoretically, Dex could summon any kind of creature he wanted if he had enough power. The little fairy is around his limit without Voltaire's power boost (Which makes me hope he's been using his mark enough since then to not need the build-up from the dam to summon her.)

We don't know if Dex' fairydoll is as impressive as Nanase's.  It probably isn't.  He could probably summon it without aid.  Even if he doesn't have the power, he could probably spend physical energy to finish the spell off.

Dex's fairy is not actually doll, has no persistence and generally nothing which could make it impressive. She may even lack the exploding option of Susan's fairy (unless that counts like disadvantage). Therefore, yes I think he would be able to summon her even without the magic anomaly from being marked.

6 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

I wouldn't think a Mark could change, though I have to admit "nothing is known to be impossible for magic other than time travel", so there might be some rare edge case where someone's Mark spell evolves before they Awaken.  It can't be a common case.

Well, for start this rule is certainly part of the set which will change on reset.

6 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

It's worth noting that those spells we've seen evolve, such as Elliot's Cheerleadra or Nanase's fairydoll spell add capabilities, but do not seem to subtract or alter what the spell already does (again, "Nothing is impossible for magic...blahblahblah" so there probably is an edge case or two of THAT out there as well)  nanase's fairydoll added "a "fae punch" subspell" and I assume Cheerleadra didn't start with the ability to act as a cell phone.

You mean the ability to merge with electronics. I don't think it's specifically about phone. Unless the phone is from DGB, is actually magic and what we saw was case of mixing magic together.

5 hours ago, Drasvin said:
5 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

"had".

I would assume he's been using that spell pretty much every day - he generally seems a lonely fellow - so he's built up a bit more power by now. How much more, to be determined maybe

I'm not entirely sure of that. I imagine he's still been summoning his little friend, but he made friends with Greg and became apart of his social circle. In a later comic, we saw Dex bummed out that the regular game had been cancelled because Greg had a new girlfriend. With a regular social group, he might not be lonely enough to warrant regularly summoning his fairy friend.

Though, to be clear, I imagine he still regularly summons her. He did say he liked her, and I doubt many gaming groups would object to having a fairy summon flit around during the game, especially when one of the group members is literally an anime-style martial artist.

Susan is much less lonely and still keeps her fairy on almost all the time.

3 hours ago, mlooney said:
3 hours ago, Drasvin said:

From what Noah had said, it implies that his limit on summoning is based on volume. So, if he can summon multiple fairies, then he could summon something with the same volume as multiple fairies...which might still not be much depending on how many that multiple is.

Well, for something to be twice the size of one fairy, he would need to be able to summon 4,  for 3 times 9,  etc.   The square/cube law bites.

Volume is likely just estimate, the abilities will play role. On the other hand fairy is pretty lean. Although she may not actually be his limit - especially with the magic anomaly. With his interests, he will be able to summon other creatures with similar or little bigger size - wait. That regular game. Maybe Dex is actually using summoned creatures instead of miniatures. Would make the game very interesting.

Now, is there something common and standard in the "little bigger than fairy" size? Most toys came in various sizes (extreme example, teddy bears range from 4" to 72").

3 hours ago, Drasvin said:

Yeah, square/cube law can be a pain. Though if the volume thing is true, that gives some insight into how much power Voltaire was pumping into him, as he could summon that big bulldog dragon and all of those fire dudes, along with pumping enough extra power into the dragon to make it unkillable. The heat coming off of Dex might have just been a side effect of all the power going into him, though that would raise the question of why Dex wasn't burnt to a crisp.

The medallion might contain protection for this purpose. I think Voltaire couldn't claim "guide and empower" if he actually burned Dex to a crisp, so he certainly made sure that can't happen.

 

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On 9/22/2017 at 9:37 PM, hkmaly said:

Well, for start this rule is certainly part of the set which will change on reset.

Do you mean that the Will of Magic is absolutely going to change how Marks work?  Do you mean that Marks are a part of the rules that could be changed?  Or something else?

I'd agree Marks could be changed if there was a reset but I have no idea that they would/wouldn't be.

On 9/22/2017 at 9:37 PM, hkmaly said:

You mean the ability to merge with electronics. I don't think it's specifically about phone. Unless the phone is from DGB, is actually magic and what we saw was case of mixing magic together.

I was only pointing to the "acting like a phone" ability as something I think was added to Elliot's Cheerleadra spell after it was originally created.  I'm not attempting to define it too. 

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28 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

I'd agree Marks could be changed if there was a reset but I have no idea that they would/wouldn't be.

I would think that people that have marks would lose them in a system change and so an Immortal would have to remark a person again.

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6 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I would think that people that have marks would lose them in a system change and so an Immortal would have to remark a person again.

That was my first thought too, but people with existing Marks could get grandfathered in, especially if Marks or something like them exist in the new magic ruleset.

Given how Pandora and Voltaire abused their privilege to Mark people in Moperville, The Will of Magic could drop the concept of Marks entirely.

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3 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

That was my first thought too, but people with existing Marks could get grandfathered in, especially if Marks or something like them exist in the new magic ruleset.

Given how Pandora and Voltaire abused their privilege to Mark people in Moperville, The Will of Magic could drop the concept of Marks entirely.

Given that Tedd was worried about deciding what gender to be if magic change, even he must have felt that he'd lose the mark that would allow him to switch back and forth.

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34 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Given that Tedd was worried about deciding what gender to be if magic change, even he must have felt that he'd lose the mark that would allow him to switch back and forth.

Sure.  Because that is the way to bet.  Tedd doesn't *know* he will lose his Mark, it's just 99.999% likely.  But the Will of Magic could do things differently.  "Nothing is impossible for magic..."

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4 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:
On 9/23/2017 at 6:37 AM, hkmaly said:

Well, for start this rule is certainly part of the set which will change on reset.

Do you mean that the Will of Magic is absolutely going to change how Marks work?  Do you mean that Marks are a part of the rules that could be changed?  Or something else?

... I meant it mathematically. The rule is part of set. The set will change on reset. That doesn't necessary mean the specific rule will change, but makes that possible.

4 hours ago, Scotty said:
4 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

I'd agree Marks could be changed if there was a reset but I have no idea that they would/wouldn't be.

I would think that people that have marks would lose them in a system change and so an Immortal would have to remark a person again.

... and I would say it's likely, as too many marked people (by Pandora) might be one of the last drops before the rule change (although not completely last, THAT would be the vampire attack).

4 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

I was only pointing to the "acting like a phone" ability as something I think was added to Elliot's Cheerleadra spell after it was originally created.  I'm not attempting to define it too. 

I was mainly pointing out that Cheerleadra would NOT act like a phone without Elliot having that phone in pocket while transforming.

 

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