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PrimordialSoul253

Story Friday October 13 2017

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5 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

Star Wars is arguably science fantasy

<nerd type = "Science Fiction">

Arguably?  Star Wars is space fantasy full stop.  No aspect of it makes it rise to as high as "SciFi", much less science fiction.  It's very good space fantasy, but it's space fantasy never the less. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, just making sure what pigeon hole it goes into is properly identified.

</nerd>

 

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3 hours ago, mlooney said:

Arguably?  Star Wars is space fantasy full stop.  No aspect of it makes it rise to as high as "SciFi", much less science fiction.  It's very good space fantasy, but it's space fantasy never the less. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, just making sure what pigeon hole it goes into is properly identified.

The movies certainly are. However, it is possible to write sci-fi story from Star Wars universe. I didn't played Star Wars: the Old Republic so I can't say if it's sci-fi, fantasy or something between. Or if it's too thin on plot to classify, as computer games can easily be.

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6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

The movies certainly are. However, it is possible to write sci-fi story from Star Wars universe. I didn't played Star Wars: the Old Republic so I can't say if it's sci-fi, fantasy or something between. Or if it's too thin on plot to classify, as computer games can easily be.

SWTOR is solidly placed in the space opera category. Grand sweeping plots, huge doomsday devices, heroes and anti-heroes the only barrier between the Galaxy and total destruction. Most if not all of the technology is no more 'scientific' than it is in the movies and the stories are heavy on drama, chase scenes, vengeance tales and/or redemption stories. One of my favourite plotlines involve a deconstruction of the ancient wise race at war with barbaric bloodthirsty primitives. Once closely inspected, the 'ancient wise race' turns out to have some definite holes in its nobility and the 'barbaric bloodthirsty primitives' number some dreamers hoping for a better existence that the 'wise ones' will go to any length to prevent them from achieving...

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1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:
7 hours ago, hkmaly said:

The movies certainly are. However, it is possible to write sci-fi story from Star Wars universe. I didn't played Star Wars: the Old Republic so I can't say if it's sci-fi, fantasy or something between. Or if it's too thin on plot to classify, as computer games can easily be.

SWTOR is solidly placed in the space opera category. Grand sweeping plots, huge doomsday devices, heroes and anti-heroes the only barrier between the Galaxy and total destruction. Most if not all of the technology is no more 'scientific' than it is in the movies and the stories are heavy on drama, chase scenes, vengeance tales and/or redemption stories.

Ok. So no sci-fi writer and yet they not only knew basic math but also god the idea to use it.

1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

One of my favourite plotlines involve a deconstruction of the ancient wise race at war with barbaric bloodthirsty primitives. Once closely inspected, the 'ancient wise race' turns out to have some definite holes in its nobility and the 'barbaric bloodthirsty primitives' number some dreamers hoping for a better existence that the 'wise ones' will go to any length to prevent them from achieving...

It might be just because I've just read few months of Schlock Mercenary, but I would like to ask if that deconstruction involved destruction and if the holes in nobility were followed by creating new holes in members of said race. The mention of "war" suggest it can easily be that case ...

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7 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

It might be just because I've just read few months of Schlock Mercenary, but I would like to ask if that deconstruction involved destruction and if the holes in nobility were followed by creating new holes in members of said race. The mention of "war" suggest it can easily be that case ...

In fact, yes it did and yes they were. :)

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On 10/16/2017 at 6:45 PM, mlooney said:

Star Wars is space fantasy full stop.  No aspect of it makes it rise to as high as "SciFi", much less science fiction.  It's very good space fantasy, but it's space fantasy never the less.

In modern general parlance, "SF" or "Sci-Fi" can broadly include science fiction, fantasy, and horror.  "Science fiction" and "hard SF" can both be used to specify works consistent with the known laws of physics.  "Soft SF" can include traditional science fiction tropes such as teleportation, telepathy, or faster-than-light travel and communication.  "Space opera" or "galactic fantasy" is stuff that openly and unashamedly embraces fantasy elements within a space setting, like the Force.

One reason for the broader definitions is that it's almost impossible to figure out exactly where the border between "science fiction" and "fantasy" lies.  Some authors, like Piers Anthony or Anne McCaffrey, love to deliberately play with those borders, putting both settings in one novel or creating dragons through genetic manipulation.

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1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

Some authors, like Piers Anthony or Anne McCaffrey, love to deliberately play with those borders, putting both settings in one novel or creating dragons through genetic manipulation.

Anne McCaffrey is great example, as Dragonflight is quite typical fantasy with no science elements until it's retroactively turned to be science fiction by  Dragonsdawn published 20 years later.

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9 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Anne McCaffrey is great example, as Dragonflight is quite typical fantasy with no science elements until it's retroactively turned to be science fiction by  Dragonsdawn published 20 years later.

Um, have you ever even read the introduction to the first book in the series?  It sets up the premise of the people of Pern being colonists and the dragons being created through genetic manipulation right there.  It was not added on later, it was just explored further, by setting a book in the planet's past exactly as they'd set one during the plague of The Ballad of Moreta's Ride before that.

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11 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
21 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Anne McCaffrey is great example, as Dragonflight is quite typical fantasy with no science elements until it's retroactively turned to be science fiction by  Dragonsdawn published 20 years later.

Um, have you ever even read the introduction to the first book in the series?  It sets up the premise of the people of Pern being colonists and the dragons being created through genetic manipulation right there.  It was not added on later, it was just explored further, by setting a book in the planet's past exactly as they'd set one during the plague of The Ballad of Moreta's Ride before that.

... damn, example broken.

(Considering I was reading the book in translation, the introduction might not be there, or I might forget. In any case, there would be possibility of being added later. If you however can confirm the introduction was always there, it means I will need  to find other example, which is pity as this was really good one. Hmmm ... or maybe just stop implying it was not planned that way from start and instead mention the possibility of overlooking the introduction ...)

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... damn, example broken.

You might have expected that, seeing as that the Dragonriders series is a rare example of veterinarian science fiction. Naturally CritterKeeper would show up to defend it. ^_^

(Heads off to the book recommendation thread to recommend the entire series)

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6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... damn, example broken.

(Considering I was reading the book in translation, the introduction might not be there, or I might forget. In any case, there would be possibility of being added later. If you however can confirm the introduction was always there, it means I will need  to find other example, which is pity as this was really good one. Hmmm ... or maybe just stop implying it was not planned that way from start and instead mention the possibility of overlooking the introduction ...)

I was reading the series since shortly before The White Dragon came out, and our copy of Dragonflight was an original release paperback until it fell apart from being re-read so many times (a fate shared by the first two Harper Hall books).  I think I even have a copy of the original novella that turned into the first section of Dragonflight around here somewhere.  So yes, I am quite certain that it always started out introducing us to Pern with, "Rukbat, in the Sagittarian sector, was a golden G-type star. It had five planets, and one stray it had attracted and held in recent millennia. Its third planet was enveloped by air man could breathe, boasted water he could drink, and possessed a gravity that permitted man to walk confidently erect.  Men discovered it and promptly colonized it....."

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