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Scotty

Story, Monday November 20, 2017

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Also, panel 5 looks to me like Magus was jerked around by another jerk we know.

It's also Voltaire in Panel 4. What might that mean?

  • Voltaire has been aware of Magus since he was knocked into the Moperverse about three years earlier.
  • Voltaire is a sadistic jerk, but that's not exactly a big mystery, is it?
  • Magus doesn't know Voltaire attacked him; Dan shows it happening when Magus is looking in the other direction.
  • Maybe the "hawk" Pandora was talking about the "egg" growing up to become isn't Magus; maybe it's Voltaire.

 

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

So confirmed, Magus and Terra were training. Dialogue had to be for dramatic effect.

Also confirmed lot of other things, like Terra being A.U. Tedd, Magus being A.U. Elliot (ok, that was expected already), Magus and Terra being in school, Magus's artefact not being cheating, Voltaire being jerk (at least that example immortal LOOKS like Voltaire) ...

Wait. If Terra is A.U. Tedd and Magus A.U. Elliot, does this makes Terra dangerously unstable the way Tedd would be without Elliot? Forget Pandora: Voltaire - or A.U. Voltaire - is top suspect for the sabotage ...

Hmmm ... so mermaids are dangerous predators ... and dragons are apparently considered monsters and not just enemies, suggesting negotiations failed ...

40 minutes ago, partner555 said:

If he only he met Jerry...

Jerry was too experienced to be seen at that point.

20 minutes ago, WR...S said:

Tedd?  I'd always figured that was Nanase, if anyone...

Nanase would be man in his universe.

13 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

And I now wonder if there's an alternate Lucy in the Magusverse...

If there is, she's nowhere near as good at killing dragons as Lucy's game character is. If dragons are compared to tornadoes, it means they are capable of doing heavy damage to CITY, and that's before team capable of killing them or at least drive them away arrives ... or DURING the fight. With the team consisting of battle mages throwing fireballs. I don't think such dragons are soloable. Maybe by legendary monster hunter with long family history ...

1 minute ago, Tom Sewell said:

Maybe the "hawk" Pandora was talking about the "egg" growing up to become isn't Magus; maybe it's Voltaire.

It IS Magus and it refers to the powers he has NOW when he has body. Voltaire wasn't egg before, he hardly changed since then.

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2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

It IS Magus and it refers to the powers he has NOW when he has body. Voltaire wasn't egg before, he hardly changed since then.

Magus doesn't seem very much like a hawk to the human mice, does he, particularly to the human mouse in the back seat now.

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2 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:
5 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

It IS Magus and it refers to the powers he has NOW when he has body. Voltaire wasn't egg before, he hardly changed since then.

Magus doesn't seem very much like a hawk to the human mice, does he, particularly to the human mouse in the back seat now.

I still think Sirleck is the hawk even if Pandora didn't predict it back when she gave the warning, I'm pretty certain she didn't predict any of this back then.

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5 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:
8 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

It IS Magus and it refers to the powers he has NOW when he has body. Voltaire wasn't egg before, he hardly changed since then.

Magus doesn't seem very much like a hawk to the human mice, does he, particularly to the human mouse in the back seat now.

You mean to the mouse he enchanted to be calm and not try to run?

Just now, Scotty said:

I still think Sirleck is the hawk even if Pandora didn't predict it back when she gave the warning, I'm pretty certain she didn't predict any of this back then.

You mean she will get sooo much unexpected consequences just when being surprised stopped being her top priority?

 

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1 minute ago, Scotty said:

I still think Sirleck is the hawk even if Pandora didn't predict it back when she gave the warning, I'm pretty certain she didn't predict any of this back then.

Sirleck's definitely carnivorous, but more of a vulture. If he can take over Elliot or Magus and their powers too, then he'd have the power of an eagle but still the instincts of a vulture. If he can take over Magus-Elliot, he's a Quetzalcoatlus norphropi, but still thinking like a vulture.

1 minute ago, hkmaly said:

You mean to the mouse he enchanted to be calm and not try to run?

Did he command Ashley not to run? Or even to stay put?

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The idea that Magus might be Elliot's alternate has been floated around in the forums since we first saw his origins, but I've always been in the camp that believed the two to be entirely unrelated and blamed the similarity of their appearances on Dan's art style not having many different faces back then. While this is not the first time Dan has proven my predictions of what he's doing wrong, there's usually enough foreshadowing for me to pick up on my mistake before the big reveal. This time however I was caught completely off guard.

After knowing that Magus was Elliot, though, Terra being Tedd didn't surprise me in the least - I actually did notice the resemblance between those two in a recent re-read, I just dismissed it at the time because it wouldn't make much sense for her to be an alternate of a character we know and Magus not to be.

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31 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:
38 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

You mean to the mouse he enchanted to be calm and not try to run?

Did he command Ashley not to run? Or even to stay put?

No and I even commented how not running from running car is pretty calm thing to do.

You think he would be more hawk if he did? What are you complaining about? My angle was that so far he seems powerful, capable of playing with other humans. Granted, Ashley is only human he's playing with now, and she doesn't have any magic, so no wonder she can't resist.

24 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

there's usually enough foreshadowing for me to pick up on my mistake before the big reveal

Well you somehow missed the bit where Magus needed Ellen to hit specifically Elliot. Might not be BIG foreshadowing but it is another argument (in addition of their similarity) for the connection and I'm sure it was mentioned in those discussions on forum.

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Ashley is only human he's playing with now, and she doesn't have any magic, so no wonder she can't resist.

No magic that Magus knows about, no magic that she knows about... but no magic? Do you think even Pele could kick something into an angry airborne griffin? Perhaps we should keep in mind that Pandora wanted to give Ashley a mark more than two months before the encounter with said griffin, and six days post-griffin to think that maybe there is an excuse to give Ashley a mark.

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4 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

So many years of speculation.

And then "Tedd and Elliot are AU Parallels of Magus and Terra".

This is somehow disappointing for me.

I get the feeling that if Dan ever finally said "Yes, Tedd, Grace and Sarah are in a poly relationship" the reaction would very much be the same.

People would be sad(or infuriated, this is the internet after all) they were wrong, others would be sad that the speculation is now over and the novelty is gone.

 

On another topic though:

9 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I was thinking about that, plus Magus' tone when describing himself and Terra as alternates of Elliot and Tedd, and one thing comes to mind, maybe Magus considers himself to be the prime being and Elliot to be his alternate and he's annoyed about being viewed as the alternate in the main universe. Or maybe the idea of alternate realities isn't an accepted theory in his world and winding up in this one was a complete shock to him, he's had nearly 3 years to adjust to it but it might still be a surreal experience. Especially if Terra wasn't genderfluid, seeing Tedd switching back and forth might be unsettling because his female form would remind Magus of Terra.

 

Something else troubles me though in terms of the timeline of events, and that's the time between Magus entering the main world, and Pandora finding him. Magus here states that he was jerked around buy numerous Immortals, but Hidden Genesis has us think that Pandora was right there first. Maybe she was responsible for bringing Magus to this world, or maybe she did just "catch him" after someone else in Magus' world sent him off, and in the nearly 2 years before the start of the comic, Magus had wandered the spirit plane being jerked around until Pandora returned to offer assistance.

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Well that's a bunch of speculation that we don't need to do again...

If magus is a wizard, does that mean Elliot (and by extension Ellen) are wizards too?

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2 hours ago, Scotty said:

but Hidden Genesis has us think that Pandora was right there first. Maybe she was responsible for bringing Magus to this world, or maybe she did just "catch him" after someone else in Magus' world sent him off, and in the nearly 2 years before the start of the comic, Magus had wandered the spirit plane being jerked around until Pandora returned to offer assistance.

That phrase "made us think" makes me think. It makes me think that maybe Pandora's very first appearance in EGS wasn't on January 8th, 2007. The creepy little girl goes on to tell Edward, Wolf, and Cranium that the egg that fell from his nest will be a hawk and that they are all little mice. If Pandora was even considering helping Magus, why would she try to make Edward and the others think Magus was a monster?

That's the next comic after the first three in Hidden Genesis, the comics which Dan linked to in his commentary for this comic--which has two panels with Voltaire.

Add that together with the very-much-established-in-canon ability of all Immortals to change their appearances, plus Voltaire's demonstrated ability to impersonate the voice and the manner of speaking of someone else (calling Sirleck and representing himself as Abner the detective) and what do we get?

Well, maybe we get at least the possibility that it was Voltaire in the role of Creepy Little Girl on January 8th and again on January 10th, 2007. After all, we already know it was Voltaire who left that pithos amulet on Dexter that gave Adrian the false suspicion that it was his mother who put Noah in danger. Think of Voltaire standing behind the hideous form of Sirleck on the first page of Catspaws.

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2 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

That phrase "made us think" makes me think. It makes me think that maybe Pandora's very first appearance in EGS wasn't on January 8th, 2007. The creepy little girl goes on to tell Edward, Wolf, and Cranium that the egg that fell from his nest will be a hawk and that they are all little mice. If Pandora was even considering helping Magus, why would she try to make Edward and the others think Magus was a monster?

That's the next comic after the first three in Hidden Genesis, the comics which Dan linked to in his commentary for this comic--which has two panels with Voltaire.

Add that together with the very-much-established-in-canon ability of all Immortals to change their appearances, plus Voltaire's demonstrated ability to impersonate the voice and the manner of speaking of someone else (calling Sirleck and representing himself as Abner the detective) and what do we get?

Well, maybe we at least the possibility that it was Voltaire in the role of Creepy Little Girl on January 8th and again on January 10th, 2007. After all, we already know it was Voltaire who left that pithos amulet on Dexter that gave Adrian the false suspicion that it was his mother who put Noah in danger. Think of Voltaire standing behind the hideous form of Sirleck on the first page of Catspaws.

Yeah, it might be possible that it was Voltaire posing at child!Pandora 2 years earlier and maybe "guided" Magus to the real Pandora. I doubt Dan originally planned it that way, but yeah considering the twist of Voltaire being responsible for manipulating Dex and his impersonation of Abner, there is room for retconning the original appearance of Pandora.

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12 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Magus doesn't seem very much like a hawk to the human mice, does he, particularly to the human mouse in the back seat now.

That "mouse" hasn't acted very mouse-like in the past. I'd rate her more as a mongoose.

Small, furry, cute, amazingly agile, rarely quite still, and - under certain circumstances  - downright vicious, with quite a bit of precision in her attack.

Oh, and easy to underestimate.

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1 hour ago, Vorlonagent said:

Well that's a bunch of speculation that we don't need to do again...

If magus is a wizard, does that mean Elliot (and by extension Ellen) are wizards too?

The rules of magic are different for him, so I would say not.

 

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6 minutes ago, mlooney said:

The rules of magic are different for him, so I would say not.

It's reasonable to say it's not a slam-dunk, but the counter-argument is that known magical aptitudes tend to be indifferent to magic's rules and they tend to be determined by lineage.

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57 minutes ago, mlooney said:

If magus is a wizard, does that mean Elliot (and by extension Ellen) are wizards too?

Magus is a wizard by the standard of  his own world, or at least he was training to become their version of a wizard. Anyway, at least two of Magus' spells have worked in the Moperverse. Whether or not all of the spells he had in his own world will work has yet to be demonstrated.

And actually it hasn't been settled whether or not any of the main eight characters except Tedd are or are not wizards by the definition Edward gave. Just because they get "free" spells based on experience levels like they are living inside a D&D campaign or the umpteen fantasy computer games that stole that mechanic from Dungeons & Dragons doesn't mean that they will never have the ability to learn the spells of others, which is what qualifies a magic user as a "wizard" according to Edward the  Endless Barrel of Exposition. And can any Vampires learn spells? Another open question, particularly as it regards to how dangerous Sirleck actually is.

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