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Scotty

Story, Monday November 20, 2017

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36 minutes ago, mlooney said:

Maybe Magus uses a version of Vancian Magic and his "Sleep" and "Calm" hadn't been cast yet.  If that is the case, he might have problems getting "new" spells to cast.

Which in the article you cited Gary Gygax basically stole from Jack Vance, although I remember reading decades ago it was inspired by another source.

We all know (or should) that Dan loves games: Card games, board games, and above all computer games (video/console games are just computer games using dedicated computers.) He's aware of tabletop roleplaying games like D&D because he made Tensaided. Since I have  yet to get a single response to the tabletop RPG thread I started called imaginatively "RPG for EGS", I'd say there aren't that many people on the EGS forums who know or care about tabletop RPGs.

However, I kind of think Dan has played Champions or GURPS Supers because of what Ellen said when she was sparring with Grace at Greg's dojo. The conversation went like this:

GREG: Ellen, don't you have any transformation beams with less... awkward results?

ELLEN: Not if you want "amping up" and "rapid fire". All my other beams have cool down times between shots.

"Amping Up" and "Rapid Fire" are both power enhancements and cool-down times power limitations which are used to customize powers--and spells--in both game systems. As experience increases, enhancements can be increased, limitations reduced, and new enhancements added--sometimes with exclusive limitations. This is not something I've ever seen done in a computer game; the functions have to be hard-coded in.

The basic rules that Champions and the Hero System are built on were thought up by one guy during one boring college lecture.  And you can do anything in a tabletop game just by creating a house rule that all the players agree on. Try doing that with Overwatch.

 

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1 minute ago, Tom Sewell said:

Since I have  yet to get a single response to the tabletop RPG thread I started called imaginatively "RPG for EGS", I'd say there aren't that many people on the EGS forums who know or care about tabletop RPGs.

I'm only a freelance Table Top RPG writer who been into RPG from the very first.

I'm on record as saying that EGS makes me think in Hero System rules, which is odd because I don't normally use Hero.

If I was to suggest a rule set to use for EGS I would say Hero Sidekick or PS238, which is HS optimized for school children with super powers.

 

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28 minutes ago, mlooney said:

If I was to suggest a rule set to use for EGS I would say Hero Sidekick or PS238, which is HS optimized for school children with super powers.

Maybe we'd actually get players using Teenagers From Outer Space (TFOS) or TWERPS?

I regret writing that last paragraph, because it forced me to realize that TFOS is so ancient there are no knacks for smartphones!

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13 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:
16 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Ashley is only human he's playing with now, and she doesn't have any magic, so no wonder she can't resist.

No magic that Magus knows about, no magic that she knows about... but no magic? Do you think even Pele could kick something into an angry airborne griffin? Perhaps we should keep in mind that Pandora wanted to give Ashley a mark more than two months before the encounter with said griffin, and six days post-griffin to think that maybe there is an excuse to give Ashley a mark.

Pandora was quite busy during those six days. Even if she did marked her, it's still too early for Ashley to build up any magic resistance.

5 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

If magus is a wizard, does that mean Elliot (and by extension Ellen) are wizards too?

No. Alternates are not identical - note that Terra is girl and Nanase might be completely missing. Also, Magus might be wizard because of different rules. And, maybe he's not using the word wizard in "correct" sense anyway.

7 hours ago, Scotty said:

Something else troubles me though in terms of the timeline of events, and that's the time between Magus entering the main world, and Pandora finding him. Magus here states that he was jerked around buy numerous Immortals, but Hidden Genesis has us think that Pandora was right there first. Maybe she was responsible for bringing Magus to this world, or maybe she did just "catch him" after someone else in Magus' world sent him off, and in the nearly 2 years before the start of the comic, Magus had wandered the spirit plane being jerked around until Pandora returned to offer assistance.

Based on the way Pandora was "helping" him, it's entirely possible she caught him, warned Edward and then waited some time before finally showing herself to Magus.

2 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

And actually it hasn't been settled whether or not any of the main eight characters except Tedd are or are not wizards by the definition Edward gave. Just because they get "free" spells based on experience levels like they are living inside a D&D campaign or the umpteen fantasy computer games that stole that mechanic from Dungeons & Dragons doesn't mean that they will never have the ability to learn the spells of others, which is what qualifies a magic user as a "wizard" according to Edward the  Endless Barrel of Exposition.

As Tedd said, there is so much magic around them they would likely already learned some spell. But ... yes, that makes it unlikely but not impossible.

2 hours ago, mlooney said:

Maybe Magus uses a version of Vancian Magic and his "Sleep" and "Calm" hadn't been cast yet.  If that is the case, he might have problems getting "new" spells to cast.

... he didn't really had any opportunity to TEST his magic did he?

Wait. How would the prepared spells survive all those years on astral plane and change of body?

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

We all know (or should) that Dan loves games: Card games, board games, and above all computer games (video/console games are just computer games using dedicated computers.) He's aware of tabletop roleplaying games like D&D because he made Tensaided. Since I have  yet to get a single response to the tabletop RPG thread I started called imaginatively "RPG for EGS", I'd say there aren't that many people on the EGS forums who know or care about tabletop RPGs.

Did you consider the possibility that others might simply consider the little we know about magic in EGS too little to build any set of rules on that? If that's possible at all ; remember that in EGS, magic's flair of drama is real thing influencing spells. The rules might be deliberately constructed in way making RPG hard to create.

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

GREG: Ellen, don't you have any transformation beams with less... awkward results?

ELLEN: Not if you want "amping up" and "rapid fire". All my other beams have cool down times between shots.

"Amping Up" and "Rapid Fire" are both power enhancements and cool-down times power limitations which are used to customize powers--and spells--in both game systems. As experience increases, enhancements can be increased, limitations reduced, and new enhancements added--sometimes with exclusive limitations. This is not something I've ever seen done in a computer game; the functions have to be hard-coded in.

What Ellen is saying about her spells tells more about what ELLEN knows about magic than about the real rules. And cool down times are TYPICAL for computer games.

Also, cool down times makes obvious Ellen is not using Vancian magic, although obviously that doesn't mean Magus doesn't; after all, he's using different rules.

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

And you can do anything in a tabletop game just by creating a house rule that all the players agree on. Try doing that with Overwatch.

You only need to get the computer players agree on that. Obviously, you can't explain it to him in English, but assembler might work.

(Also, you CAN do that in Doom ... or Fallout 3, or Minecraft ...)

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1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Since I have  yet to get a single response to the tabletop RPG thread I started called imaginatively "RPG for EGS", I'd say there aren't that many people on the EGS forums who know or care about tabletop RPGs.

I have played tabletop RPGs for years. Unfortunately, I just did not have any ideas for your thread. I am sorry.

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15 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Well you somehow missed the bit where Magus needed Ellen to hit specifically Elliot. Might not be BIG foreshadowing but it is another argument (in addition of their similarity) for the connection and I'm sure it was mentioned in those discussions on forum.

First of all, we knew that before we even knew Magus' name or that he came from an alternate universe, so it doesn't exactly match the scenario I was alluding to where I have one opinion and then new information makes me change my mind in time to be right when Dan makes the answer official.

Secondly, at one point Pandora said something to the effect of "You need two who are one". I've always assumed that any Dewitchery Diamond duplicate and the person they were duplicated from would work for Magus' resurrection, it was just that Ellen was the only living Dewitchery duplicate alive in the main EGS universe and arranging for another duplicate to be made would have been even more difficult than trying to get Ellen to zap Elliot.

7 hours ago, Scotty said:

I get the feeling that if Dan ever finally said "Yes, Tedd, Grace and Sarah are in a poly relationship" the reaction would very much be the same.

People would be sad(or infuriated, this is the internet after all) they were wrong, others would be sad that the speculation is now over and the novelty is gone.

If I found out they had been in a relationship for some time without the readers being informed, I would be highly annoyed. If we actually saw them form a trio I'd have a moment of giddy happiness. Either way, my next reaction would be "Okay, now give us cute scenes of them doing romantic things together."

...Which is all just to say that I'm not interested in the possibility of a Tedd/Grace/Sarah relationship for the speculation, I'm interested in it for what we'd get to see if it happened.

As for the Magus revelation, beyond being disappointed that I guessed wrong, a big part of my disappointment comes from one of the reasons I didn't think Magus was Elliot in the first place - in EGS (or any other story with alternate universes as a prominent element), the idea that a mysterious new character is an alternate of a known character is just too easy and obvious an answer.

4 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

That phrase "made us think" makes me think. It makes me think that maybe Pandora's very first appearance in EGS wasn't on January 8th, 2007. The creepy little girl goes on to tell Edward, Wolf, and Cranium that the egg that fell from his nest will be a hawk and that they are all little mice. If Pandora was even considering helping Magus, why would she try to make Edward and the others think Magus was a monster?

It's been implied that Pandora has two mental modes (possibly without a clear boundary between them) - one in which she is a fairly kind human-like individual (and loving mother / widow), and one in which she is uncaring, nearly omniscient, and extremely bored. And until Sister III most of what we've seen of her has been in the latter mode; I suspect it's the state she's spent much of the past few centuries in.

I don't think Pandroa ever helped Magus out of the kindness of her heart; she was bored, and thought that warning Edward Verres about Magus then helping Magus to regain his body would alleviate her boredom.

(That said, I can't see any reason why Immortals couldn't impersonate one another, so your idea is possible.)

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19 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

You only need to get the computer players agree on that. Obviously, you can't explain it to him in English, but assembler might work.

Really? Send me a copy of your revised Overwatch program which allows you to summon a million-carat flawless purple diamond shaped like Napoleon's hat that gives you unlimited shots against orcs wearing clown noses, propeller beanies, and swim fins, or at least a screen shot.

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On 11/20/2017 at 0:32 AM, hkmaly said:

Wait. If Terra is A.U. Tedd and Magus A.U. Elliot, does this makes Terra dangerously unstable the way Tedd would be without Elliot? Forget Pandora: Voltaire - or A.U. Voltaire - is top suspect for the sabotage ...

Interesting thought.  I presume that Magus' universe might have Immortals, but they might be constrained by their set of non-interference rules.  Still, Voltaire or AU-Voltaire could have manipulated an enemy of Magus to commit the sabotage.  Still, if Terra were like Tedd and was a seer, then removing Magus might traumatize Terra, but to what purpose?  In Elliot's universe, Magic wants to be scarce and is threatening to reset.  Voltaire wants Tedd unable to perform some function of being a seer so he impose his own rules.

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7 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

Secondly, at one point Pandora said something to the effect of "You need two who are one". I've always assumed that any Dewitchery Diamond duplicate and the person they were duplicated from would work for Magus' resurrection, it was just that Ellen was the only living Dewitchery duplicate alive in the main EGS universe and arranging for another duplicate to be made would have been even more difficult than trying to get Ellen to zap Elliot.

Hmmm ... it's true that I was speculating on this topic in past ...

7 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

As for the Magus revelation, beyond being disappointed that I guessed wrong, a big part of my disappointment comes from one of the reasons I didn't think Magus was Elliot in the first place - in EGS (or any other story with alternate universes as a prominent element), the idea that a mysterious new character is an alternate of a known character is just too easy and obvious an answer.

While true, EGS can hardly avoid that when it already shown beta Tedd and Lord Tedd. At that point, alternate universe NOT having alternates of know characters would be the less expected option, no matter how unlikely it is in general.

I just hope Dan doesn't have some alternate hidden on the other half of EGS universe at least.

7 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

(That said, I can't see any reason why Immortals couldn't impersonate one another, so your idea is possible.)

I do. Immortal law. It would make sense if deliberately impersonating other immortal would be prohibited because most immortals would hate if someone did it to them.

Also, while Pandora changes form without any effort, other immortals seems limited. It doesn't make sense considering their body is not from real matter, but we can't be sure immortals are ABLE to impersonate each other without lot of experience. (Of course, Voltaire MIGHT have this level of experience.)

6 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:
7 hours ago, hkmaly said:

You only need to get the computer players agree on that. Obviously, you can't explain it to him in English, but assembler might work.

Really? Send me a copy of your revised Overwatch program which allows you to summon a million-carat flawless purple diamond shaped like Napoleon's hat that gives you unlimited shots against orcs wearing clown noses, propeller beanies, and swim fins, or at least a screen shot.

Sorry, already have full-time job. But if I get fired, we can talk about that idea and how much it would cost you.

Sure, getting people to agree on something is usually easier than explaining (meaning: programming) something to computer. It's even harder when game is not supposed to have support for modding and you need to hack it in. But it is possible and it was already done multiple times. And if you try to get congress to agree on something logical, you may realize that programming is not that difficult.

(For nice example, look at https://www.ttdpatch.net/: that's binary patch making extensive modifications of game which was not supposed to be modded.)

27 minutes ago, Tuscahoma said:
On 11/20/2017 at 7:32 AM, hkmaly said:

Wait. If Terra is A.U. Tedd and Magus A.U. Elliot, does this makes Terra dangerously unstable the way Tedd would be without Elliot? Forget Pandora: Voltaire - or A.U. Voltaire - is top suspect for the sabotage ...

Interesting thought.  I presume that Magus' universe might have Immortals, but they might be constrained by their set of non-interference rules.  Still, Voltaire or AU-Voltaire could have manipulated an enemy of Magus to commit the sabotage.  Still, if Terra were like Tedd and was a seer, then removing Magus might traumatize Terra, but to what purpose?  In Elliot's universe, Magic wants to be scarce and is threatening to reset.  Voltaire wants Tedd unable to perform some function of being a seer so he impose his own rules.

There may be other reasons for magic wanting to reset in Magus's universe ; we have no idea what objectives that universe magic has. And the rules Voltaire wants to impose are likely not something any sane seer would define.

Alternatively, maybe A.U. Voltaire wants Terra destabilized just as revenge on A.U. Pandora for something ...

Ok, maybe it doesn't make as much sense as I though, but the idea our universe Pandora did it is not so sound either.

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2 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

And if you try to get congress to agree on something logical, you may realize that programming is not that difficult.

Otto von Bismarck said that one is better off not knowing how two things are actually made: sausages, and laws.

Obviously he had no experience with programming of critical systems (like airplane or nuclear power plant).

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11 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

So what we need is a nuclear powered, sausage making, airplane that caries an entire parliament while they debate legislation?

Self-evident.

14 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

That would probably be easier to understand than Goonmanji II.

Unless the parliament is Danish.

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15 hours ago, hkmaly said:
18 hours ago, mlooney said:

Maybe Magus uses a version of Vancian Magic and his "Sleep" and "Calm" hadn't been cast yet.  If that is the case, he might have problems getting "new" spells to cast.

... he didn't really had any opportunity to TEST his magic did he?

Wait. How would the prepared spells survive all those years on astral plane and change of body?

Well, Rules As Written, they hang around until you cast them.  (0D&D, AD&D and D&D 3.x/Pathfinder).  4th didn't use VM and 5th uses a weird version, but they hang around until you replace them.

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8 hours ago, hkmaly said:

While true, EGS can hardly avoid that when it already shown beta Tedd and Lord Tedd. At that point, alternate universe NOT having alternates of know characters would be the less expected option, no matter how unlikely it is in general.

I expect that there are alternates for nearly all the characters in other universes (Dan has said that the EGS multiverse is finite, so there might be a few individuals whose birth was unlikely enough that they only show up in one universe). And I don't have a problem with new ones showing up. I just think it's poor writing to introduce a character and then long after we've come to know them as an individual character reveal "Oh, by the way, they're the duplicate of this other well established character."

I'd feel the same way if the fan theory that Diane is an alternate of Susan were to be revealed to be true.

8 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I do. Immortal law. It would make sense if deliberately impersonating other immortal would be prohibited because most immortals would hate if someone did it to them.

Also, while Pandora changes form without any effort, other immortals seems limited. It doesn't make sense considering their body is not from real matter, but we can't be sure immortals are ABLE to impersonate each other without lot of experience. (Of course, Voltaire MIGHT have this level of experience.)

I'd like to think Immortal law would prevent them from impersonating one another (even if it apparently doesn't keep them from choosing the same name), as you'd think such impersonations would lead to some very fierce conflict between them. However, such a law has not yet been revealed in the comic.

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9 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:

Interesting thought.  I presume that Magus' universe might have Immortals, but they might be constrained by their set of non-interference rules.  Still, Voltaire or AU-Voltaire could have manipulated an enemy of Magus to commit the sabotage.  Still, if Terra were like Tedd and was a seer, then removing Magus might traumatize Terra, but to what purpose?  In Elliot's universe, Magic wants to be scarce and is threatening to reset.  Voltaire wants Tedd unable to perform some function of being a seer so he impose his own rules.

We can reasonably presume, considering that they were paired off against each other in training, that Terra is a mage at least roughly comparable in trained ability to Magus.

IMHO this makes it unlikely that Terra is their world's equivalent of a seer. But not impossible.

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11 hours ago, hkmaly said:

There may be other reasons for magic wanting to reset in Magus's universe ; we have no idea what objectives that universe magic has. And the rules Voltaire wants to impose are likely not something any sane seer would define.

Alternatively, maybe A.U. Voltaire wants Terra destabilized just as revenge on A.U. Pandora for something ...

Ok, maybe it doesn't make as much sense as I though, but the idea our universe Pandora did it is not so sound either.

No, I wasn't saying it doesn't make sense.  For example, it just occurs to me that there may be other conditions for reset in Magus' universe such that a seer is required to rediscover the rules.  Perhaps if the usage of Magic becomes too unbalanced in some other way?

 

1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

We can reasonably presume, considering that they were paired off against each other in training, that Terra is a mage at least roughly comparable in trained ability to Magus.

IMHO this makes it unlikely that Terra is their world's equivalent of a seer. But not impossible.

Well, what if their dialog wasn't just for dramatic effect.  What if Magus believes that Terra's potential is being wasted.  Perhaps in Magus' universe, the equivalent of Seers have different set of abilities that let them do the same thing, relearn magic.  Seers might be just as rare or effectively rare (hard to find) as in our universe.  Maybe Seers in Magus' universe can get spells, making their seer abilities easy to overlook.

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20 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Which in the article you cited Gary Gygax basically stole from Jack Vance, although I remember reading decades ago it was inspired by another source.

We all know (or should) that Dan loves games: Card games, board games, and above all computer games (video/console games are just computer games using dedicated computers.) He's aware of tabletop roleplaying games like D&D because he made Tensaided. Since I have  yet to get a single response to the tabletop RPG thread I started called imaginatively "RPG for EGS", I'd say there aren't that many people on the EGS forums who know or care about tabletop RPGs.

Well, I do care about tabletop RPGs, but finding time has been problematic.  I started with D&D (yes, I am that old), mostly played AD&D and some Star Frontiers (TSR's odd foray in sci-fi) and a few odd games here and there.  I also occasionally  ran a rules free anything goes game (it ran like a combo of X-Files and Scooby Doo).  Oddly enough, I have four kids, and sometimes, (when screen time is over) they will sit around and roleplay in a rules free mode (one kid guides the story and determines what is allowed and what isn't).  It's cool to watch.

 

21 hours ago, mlooney said:

Maybe Magus uses a version of Vancian Magic and his "Sleep" and "Calm" hadn't been cast yet.  If that is the case, he might have problems getting "new" spells to cast.

That would be hilarious.  He avoids the Universe Difference Issue (magics works differently here) by carrying his preset spells, but thinks he just has "to do that thing" to relearn them, like AD&D clerics praying for spells (and I am assuming since he hasn't panicked, relearning doesn't require access to a spellbook like AD&D mages), then "Uh oh, why can't I relearn my spells?!"

All this time claiming to be a much stronger mage and laid low by landing in a universe with a different rule set.

Honestly, I do hope he is limited in some way by being in a different universe, otherwise I could envision Invasions from Alternate Universes Where Magic Is More Bad-Ass.

Since Elliot's universe seems to be more of a Mana Meter, perhaps Magus will find it harder to replenish his Mana, or that the level of effects he expect require more Mana.

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5 hours ago, mlooney said:

Well, Rules As Written, they hang around until you cast them.  (0D&D, AD&D and D&D 3.x/Pathfinder).  4th didn't use VM and 5th uses a weird version, but they hang around until you replace them.

I learned on AD&D, but as I recall, Magic-User spell didn't hang around until they were used, they had to be re-learned every night.  I never heard a DM tell a magic-user "Okay, you didn't use your Fireball or Magic Missile today, so you get to keep them for tomorrow, and you only have to spend half the time you would otherwise studying spells to replace the ones you did use."

4 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

I expect that there are alternates for nearly all the characters in other universes (Dan has said that the EGS multiverse is finite, so there might be a few individuals whose birth was unlikely enough that they only show up in one universe). And I don't have a problem with new ones showing up. I just think it's poor writing to introduce a character and then long after we've come to know them as an individual character reveal "Oh, by the way, they're the duplicate of this other well established character."

That would apply if there were no hint of his being Elliot's alternate before this, but his very introduction had a character who looks like Elliot (could be coincidence) dueling a character who looks like Tedd and whose name starts with a T (much less likely to be coincidence with both of them looking like inhabitants of the universe we've been following).

4 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

I'd feel the same way if the fan theory that Diane is an alternate of Susan were to be revealed to be true.

Again, when it seemed obvious that they were twins, then the alternate option would have come out of left field.  Now, however, we know that they aren't twins, so other options come back onto the table.  In this case, I don't think there's been enough other evidence to make Diane being Susan's alternate a fair option.  But, there's still the chance for Dan to develop the possibility over time.

1 hour ago, Tuscahoma said:

Well, I do care about tabletop RPGs, but finding time has been problematic.  I started with D&D (yes, I am that old), mostly played AD&D and some Star Frontiers (TSR's odd foray in sci-fi) and a few odd games here and there.  I also occasionally  ran a rules free anything goes game (it ran like a combo of X-Files and Scooby Doo).  Oddly enough, I have four kids, and sometimes, (when screen time is over) they will sit around and roleplay in a rules free mode (one kid guides the story and determines what is allowed and what isn't).  It's cool to watch.

Heh.  My crowd usually ostensibly used a specific game, but chose to ignore the rules in favor of group consensus or, with some game styles, GM fiat, whenever it seemed appropriate to make for a better story.

1 hour ago, Tuscahoma said:

perhaps Magus will find it harder to replenish his Mana, or that the level of effects he expect require more Mana.

Or when the level of ambient magic drops, he may find his own spell-casting ability affected.....guess I'm curious now how far out of town they're headed!

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19 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

I learned on AD&D, but as I recall, Magic-User spell didn't hang around until they were used, they had to be re-learned every night.  I never heard a DM tell a magic-user "Okay, you didn't use your Fireball or Magic Missile today, so you get to keep them for tomorrow, and you only have to spend half the time you would otherwise studying spells to replace the ones you did use."

Huh. I and my friends did not use that interpretation. Partly it was because of the dramatically increasing amount of time it took to memorise spells, I think. If one of our level 12 wizards had expended all their spells it took them eighteen hours of effort to memorise them all anew. According to the rules, you could only spend eight hours a day on memorising spells before you tired too much to maintain the effort. Thus, at that point, it took us three days to go from empty to full. Losing everything overnight would have made that impossible, obviously.

It got worse at higher levels. I can not remember precisely how long it took him but there was this 30th level NPC wizard in the campaign. We worked out that if he fired off everything he had, it would take him around half a month to recover everything he had spent.

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2 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Heh.  My crowd usually ostensibly used a specific game, but chose to ignore the rules in favor of group consensus or, with some game styles, GM fiat, whenever it seemed appropriate to make for a better story.

That is entirely consistent with D&D (all versions I've seen) rules.

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1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

That is entirely consistent with D&D (all versions I've seen) rules.

...and that's before you talk about spell components.  memorizing spells and expending spell components were two of the most annoying and counter-intuitive things that TSR added to AD&D..

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8 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

I expect that there are alternates for nearly all the characters in other universes (Dan has said that the EGS multiverse is finite, so there might be a few individuals whose birth was unlikely enough that they only show up in one universe).

In finite multiverse, no way. Problem with alternates is that divergences multiply itself. Butterfly effect and stuff. Your birth depends not only on your parents, but on ALL your ancestors having sex together, despite lot of them having lot of other options. And even in infinite universe, unless you specifically SEARCH for those alternates, you are much more likely to NOT find them.

Of course, lord Tedd WAS searching ...

It's even worse in those "evil duplicate" universes. In universe where good people are evil and evil people are good, completely different people will die and the universes diverges very quickly.

8 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

I'd like to think Immortal law would prevent them from impersonating one another (even if it apparently doesn't keep them from choosing the same name), as you'd think such impersonations would lead to some very fierce conflict between them. However, such a law has not yet been revealed in the comic.

True. On the other hand, there was specifically said there are more laws than mentioned, and we don't know about such law NOT existing either.

7 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

We can reasonably presume, considering that they were paired off against each other in training, that Terra is a mage at least roughly comparable in trained ability to Magus.

IMHO this makes it unlikely that Terra is their world's equivalent of a seer. But not impossible.

1) They were not "officially" paired. This was like homework - related to school (and on school facility), but done after school.

2) Terra's abilities in creating artefacts wouldn't influence her combat abilities. They may be comparable in combat.

5 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:

Well, what if their dialog wasn't just for dramatic effect.  What if Magus believes that Terra's potential is being wasted.

Or 3) Terra's SHOULD be better but isn't because she's not using all her potential.

5 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:
17 hours ago, hkmaly said:

There may be other reasons for magic wanting to reset in Magus's universe ; we have no idea what objectives that universe magic has. And the rules Voltaire wants to impose are likely not something any sane seer would define.

Alternatively, maybe A.U. Voltaire wants Terra destabilized just as revenge on A.U. Pandora for something ...

Ok, maybe it doesn't make as much sense as I though, but the idea our universe Pandora did it is not so sound either.

No, I wasn't saying it doesn't make sense.  For example, it just occurs to me that there may be other conditions for reset in Magus' universe such that a seer is required to rediscover the rules.  Perhaps if the usage of Magic becomes too unbalanced in some other way?

... isn't this what I said? Anyway, yes.

5 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:

Honestly, I do hope he is limited in some way by being in a different universe, otherwise I could envision Invasions from Alternate Universes Where Magic Is More Bad-Ass.

Maybe we (I mean, EGS) just don't have anything they want and can't get closer. Not even enlightenment. And travelling between universes might be harder than Nioi make it look.

3 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
Quote

perhaps Magus will find it harder to replenish his Mana, or that the level of effects he expect require more Mana.

Or when the level of ambient magic drops, he may find his own spell-casting ability affected.....guess I'm curious now how far out of town they're headed!

He will definitely be affected. Question is how much he expects this and how much energy he has "stored".

3 hours ago, The Old Hack said:
3 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

I learned on AD&D, but as I recall, Magic-User spell didn't hang around until they were used, they had to be re-learned every night.  I never heard a DM tell a magic-user "Okay, you didn't use your Fireball or Magic Missile today, so you get to keep them for tomorrow, and you only have to spend half the time you would otherwise studying spells to replace the ones you did use."

Huh. I and my friends did not use that interpretation. Partly it was because of the dramatically increasing amount of time it took to memorise spells, I think. If one of our level 12 wizards had expended all their spells it took them eighteen hours of effort to memorise them all anew. According to the rules, you could only spend eight hours a day on memorising spells before you tired too much to maintain the effort. Thus, at that point, it took us three days to go from empty to full. Losing everything overnight would have made that impossible, obviously.

It got worse at higher levels. I can not remember precisely how long it took him but there was this 30th level NPC wizard in the campaign. We worked out that if he fired off everything he had, it would take him around half a month to recover everything he had spent.

Even if you wouldn't get tired of that, it seems crazy to spend so long time memorising spells just for them to vanish over night.

If that's how it's supposed to be played someone didn't really though about it or didn't playtested it.

(On the other hand, I'm that person who thinks that magic SHOULD be powerful and that trying to balance non-magic fighter and wizards makes the game less fun if not completely unplayable. Like, wizards have more fun with more magic, fighters have more fun with subconsciously magic based abilities similar to what people do in anime like jumping ten meters high. Well ... anime and StarWars :))

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4 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

I learned on AD&D, but as I recall, Magic-User spell didn't hang around until they were used, they had to be re-learned every night.  I never heard a DM tell a magic-user "Okay, you didn't use your Fireball or Magic Missile today, so you get to keep them for tomorrow, and you only have to spend half the time you would otherwise studying spells to replace the ones you did use."

Page 40 if the 1st AD&D Player's Handbook is confusing as to that.  It says they must be memorized "before the adventure"  and that it takes 15 minutes per spell level to memorize them.  I can see where a select type of DM would make you spend a lot of time every day to have spells, but it doesn't say, explicitly, that they go away.  It does say they go away on casting.  Page 100 strongly implies that they stick around.

 

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