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partner555

Story: Wed Nov 22 2017

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I'm starting to like calmed Ashley.

Funny like Magus is saying "Tedd's father" because he correctly guessed Ashley would not know him by name but id didn't occurred to him Ashley has no idea what TF gun is ...

Aaand confirmation that Dan didn't had Magus planned at time of writing the story. And obviously neither Sirleck, so that bribing of that guard was later idea as well.

Also note that while Magus is taking responsibility for influencing "people" when planning going for dewitchery diamond, with what we saw about his efficiency it might've happened anyway.

Oh, and about Pandora's plan: actually, I think it was pretty good plan. I mean, sure, it was optimized for being interesting, not for success, but given the possibility of multiple tries the chance of failure wasn't THAT big ... if Elliot wouldn't be protected by Helena and Demetrius or Magus got better idea how to distract them than using Sirleck.

1 hour ago, partner555 said:

Does Mr Verres even know about Pandora?

That's VERY good question. And Adrian's intercession might not exactly help. Still, there is fair chance Edward would allow that anyway.

 

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4 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Funny like Magus is saying "Tedd's father" because he correctly guessed Ashley would not know him by name but id didn't occurred to him Ashley has no idea what TF gun is ...

Let's just assume that Elliot told Ashley at some point that the boy--or at any rate the person--with the purple hair who was sitting with Susan and Sarah was Tedd and that Tedd was a good friend. It is also possible that Ashley actually knew who Tedd was before her first appearance since Elliot hangs around Tedd at the school they all go to.

But it is interesting Magus would assume Ashley knows who Tedd is. Helen and Demetrius don't let their guard down very often.

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8 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:
26 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Funny like Magus is saying "Tedd's father" because he correctly guessed Ashley would not know him by name but id didn't occurred to him Ashley has no idea what TF gun is ...

Let's just assume that Elliot told Ashley at some point that the boy--or at any rate the person--with the purple hair who was sitting with Susan and Sarah was Tedd and that Tedd was a good friend. It is also possible that Ashley actually knew who Tedd was before her first appearance since Elliot hangs around Tedd at the school they all go to.

... right, Ashley might not even know TEDDs name ...

On the other hand, explaining who he is wouldn't really help here, would it?

2 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

And now for something that's almost certainly a retcon, but might be a good one. Remember this page? This is the very first time Susan is shown being attracted to anyone. Could Magus have had something to do with this?

That was due to Elliot's pheromones. Which were even stronger originally (THAT was retconned) ...

06272002_alt.png

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Ashley's calmness is such a nice foil. I want it to stick a bit more.

Oh yeah, right. Sirleck's last host was a stiff. Either way, Pandora earns the Chaos better than a stick of butter.

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4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Funny like Magus is saying "Tedd's father" because he correctly guessed Ashley would not know him by name but id didn't occurred to him Ashley has no idea what TF gun is ...

3 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Let's just assume that Elliot told Ashley at some point that the boy--or at any rate the person--with the purple hair who was sitting with Susan and Sarah was Tedd and that Tedd was a good friend. It is also possible that Ashley actually knew who Tedd was before her first appearance since Elliot hangs around Tedd at the school they all go to.

Ashley probably was introduced to Tedd in the past week or so and she would likely have been introduce to Sarah (she already knew who Susan was). Now she knows about the TFG and the diamond and Tara's comment about knowing Ellen was "Elliot's twin in spite of having an oddly... different sort of magic potential." probably makes a lot more sense.

4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Also note that while Magus is taking responsibility for influencing "people" when planning going for dewitchery diamond, with what we saw about his efficiency it might've happened anyway.

That means he must have manipulated Grace since she was the one that did the searching and found out about the diamond.

 

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Ashley probably was introduced to Tedd in the past week or so and she would likely have been introduce to Sarah (she already knew who Susan was). Now she knows about the TFG and the diamond and Tara's comment about knowing Ellen was "Elliot's twin in spite of having an oddly... different sort of magic potential." probably makes a lot more sense.

You're ascribing Ashley with Susan/Diane levels of deductive ability here....

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

That means he must have manipulated Grace since she was the one that did the searching and found out about the diamond.

Actually, that makes a lot of sense.  Grace may be a magical powerhouse, but emotionally she's probably the most vulnerable.

 

Hmm, now I have a mental image of a bored Magus being the answer to Sarah's question of "Why am I being clung???"  But no, I refuse to sully the OTT with any outside influence!

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6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

That was due to Elliot's pheromones. Which were even stronger originally (THAT was retconned) ...

Ah, probably not. Susan explains to Nanase later that Tedd suspects Nanase never had the extra pheromones. And now we know that Magus used the magic he learned from Pandora to with Tedd's TF gun before he fired it on Elliot.

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3 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

"I'm hoping you die horribly"

Your mind controlled victim is more hostile and rude to you while under your "control"?

Is this some sort of limitation to the spell to reduce casting cost or karmic payback?

More like a side effect. Mood-altering drugs come with them, so why not mood-altering spells?

Extreme honesty has been a feature of Ashley's from the beginning, and also courage. Remember, she was running toward the center of the mall, exactly the opposite from what Elliot told her to do so she would be safe. Telling Magus and especially Sirleck the Vampire she hoped they would die horrible deaths if they didn't leave Elliot and Ellen safe fits both of those qualities. And I don't think it's an accident Dan didn't have Ashley say anything about her own safety.

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6 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

More like a side effect. Mood-altering drugs come with them, so why not mood-altering spells?

Assuming they work by messing with brain chemistry, they more or less have to.

 

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Just now, CritterKeeper said:

You're ascribing Ashley with Susan/Diane levels of deductive ability here....

We're talking about someone who formulated and executed a way to get Tara to stop chasing Elliot. And also suggested to Nanase that Elliot's Cheerleadra form might count as a separate person when creating a Fair Doll. She's not dumb, and it's not like she is figuring this out herself, Magus is telling her about Ellen's origins, so my previous statement is more of a hindsight "So that's why the griffin thought she was oddly different" thing.  Diane wouldn't have enough information to make that deduction though, all she has is Tara's statement, and Ellen's "no offense meant to Elliot..." statement, if she were to learn about the Dewitchery Diamond though, I wouldn't doubt that things would click into place for her.

Just now, mlooney said:
Just now, Tom Sewell said:

More like a side effect. Mood-altering drugs come with them, so why not mood-altering spells?

Assuming they work by messing with brain chemistry, they more or less have to.

Even Magus said it was a known side effect of the spell, my guess is the calmness inhibits the ability to filter what a person wants to say, Ashley might still have thought about that comment normally but would have held it back because it's a rude and horrible thing to say, but since the dislike of that phrase is emotional there isn't anything holding her back from saying it.

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It seems that Ellen is somehow more aware of what is going on than Sirleck and Magus think. Her pulse rate started to quicken as Magus related the plan Pandora had compelled him to follow. I wonder if this is leading up to a "You wouldn't want me to get angry" moment. These have been known to snap or at least temporarily suspend mental control.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Even Magus said it was a known side effect of the spell, my guess is the calmness inhibits the ability to filter what a person wants to say, Ashley might still have thought about that comment normally but would have held it back because it's a rude and horrible thing to say, but since the dislike of that phrase is emotional there isn't anything holding her back from saying it.

I am in agreement with this; it seems logical to me.

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1 minute ago, The Old Hack said:

It seems that Ellen is somehow more aware of what is going on than Sirleck and Magus think. Her pulse rate started to quicken as Magus related the plan Pandora had compelled him to follow. I wonder if this is leading up to a "You wouldn't want me to get angry" moment. These have been known to snap or at least temporarily suspend mental control.

It definitely seems like "My existence is due to some bored Immortal jerking around Elliot's alternate?" kind of revelation.

But hey, at least Tedd's completely off the hook now....right?

Though I'm not sure Tedd would feel right with having "those were the best mistakes I ever made" changed to "I was manipulated by my Grand Godmother into creating Ellen"

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Just now, Scotty said:

It definitely seems like "My existence is due to some bored Immortal jerking around Elliot's alternate?" kind of revelation.

But hey, at least Tedd's completely off the hook now....right?

Though I'm not sure Tedd would feel right with having "those were the best mistakes I ever made" changed to "I was manipulated by my Grand Godmother into creating Ellen"

Honestly? I think Tedd would be more than a little angry, too. Pandora may find herself called to account for her actions by her great-godson/daughter before this is over.

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18 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

Honestly? I think Tedd would be more than a little angry, too. Pandora may find herself called to account for her actions by her great-godson/daughter before this is over.

Yeah, but then again, he is quite aware of her being past her reset time and having difficulty keeping her composure, and having seen her appear on TV shortly after the attack on Ellen, and the fact that she's responsible for the energy clog and marking numerous people and bringing Magic soo close to changing for everyone. Maybe we'll find Tedd trying to convince Ellen that Pandora just made some mistakes herself, though I don't think he'd say they were the best mistakes, that might not fly a second time.

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6 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Ah, probably not. Susan explains to Nanase later that Tedd suspects Nanase never had the extra pheromones. And now we know that Magus used the magic he learned from Pandora to with Tedd's TF gun before he fired it on Elliot.

Susan is explaining that the pheromones stop being given off after a while; Ellen might never have had any because Elliot might have stopped giving them off before he touched the Dewitchery Diamond. This doesn't mean that Elliot never had them.

1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

It seems that Ellen is somehow more aware of what is going on than Sirleck and Magus think. Her pulse rate started to quicken as Magus related the plan Pandora had compelled him to follow. I wonder if this is leading up to a "You wouldn't want me to get angry" moment. These have been known to snap or at least temporarily suspend mental control.

My thinking as well. In fact I began to suspect that when Sirleck/Ellen avoided the racoon in the road. Sirleck may have blamed Ellen's muscle memory, but unless Ellen has had to dodge a lot of things in the road I wouldn't expect her body to react to something in the road through muscle memory alone; I would think that some part of her mind (maybe conscious, maybe subconscious) would have to make the judgment "this is a thing I do not want to run into/over" first (even if that judgment is made in a split second).

It's strange though; Sirleck presumably has had many hosts over the years, so you'd think he'd know if his subjects were aware (and maybe even able to fight back) while he was possessing them. If so, why is Ellen different from his previous hosts? 

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1 minute ago, ChronosCat said:

It's strange though; Sirleck presumably has had many hosts over the years, so you'd think he'd know if his subjects were aware (and maybe even able to fight back) while he was possessing them. If so, why is Ellen different from his previous hosts? 

One possibility: Ellen is magically created. It gives her an advantage with energy buildups; it might also give her an edge when it comes to magic resistance. What Mr. Verres says in the second panel on this page seems to support that.

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It occurs to me that maybe Sirleck is outnumbered. Ellen has two personalities blended together inside her, the one based on Elliot and the one based on Second-Life Ellen. Maybe this also will apply to Magus; Elliot does have those three alter-egos that are quite different.

Raise your hand if you'd like to see Heidi taking over.

Edited by Tom Sewell
Heidi-ho!

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5 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

It's strange though; Sirleck presumably has had many hosts over the years, so you'd think he'd know if his subjects were aware (and maybe even able to fight back) while he was possessing them. If so, why is Ellen different from his previous hosts? 

She's a magical duplicate of Elliot?

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3 minutes ago, Scotty said:

She's a magical duplicate of Elliot?

It could be Second Life Ellen. The Second Life universe could have different magic than the Moperverse. Sirleck may not be able to sense Ellen's consciousness because of that difference.

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2 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

It could be Second Life Ellen. The Second Life universe could have different magic than the Moperverse. Sirleck may not be able to sense Ellen's consciousness because of that difference.

she just has the memories of that Ellen, she herself had never been or came from there, she wouldn't have multiple consciousnesses from it.

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1 minute ago, Scotty said:

she just has the memories of that Ellen, she herself had never been or came from there, she wouldn't have multiple consciousnesses from it.

Let's not assume that in a universe with magic, magic isn't part of every human. We've never seen Sirleck use anything like a spell yet, so it seems reasonable to assume he's never had a host with usable magic, or a host who isn't entirely a native of the Moperverse.

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11 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
13 hours ago, Scotty said:

Ashley probably was introduced to Tedd in the past week or so and she would likely have been introduce to Sarah (she already knew who Susan was). Now she knows about the TFG and the diamond and Tara's comment about knowing Ellen was "Elliot's twin in spite of having an oddly... different sort of magic potential." probably makes a lot more sense.

You're ascribing Ashley with Susan/Diane levels of deductive ability here....

Also very good memory. She may not remember what Tara said exactly now ... in fact, her comment about "Princess power" might be more "not remembering exactly" than "telling it in funny way".

13 hours ago, Scotty said:
17 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Also note that while Magus is taking responsibility for influencing "people" when planning going for dewitchery diamond, with what we saw about his efficiency it might've happened anyway.

That means he must have manipulated Grace since she was the one that did the searching and found out about the diamond.

As I said: Maybe he didn't and was just lucky Grace did what he suggested.

11 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Grace may be a magical powerhouse, but emotionally she's probably the most vulnerable.

On the other hand ...

10 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:
14 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

"I'm hoping you die horribly"

Your mind controlled victim is more hostile and rude to you while under your "control"?

Is this some sort of limitation to the spell to reduce casting cost or karmic payback?

More like a side effect. Mood-altering drugs come with them, so why not mood-altering spells?

Extreme honesty has been a feature of Ashley's from the beginning, and also courage. Remember, she was running toward the center of the mall, exactly the opposite from what Elliot told her to do so she would be safe. Telling Magus and especially Sirleck the Vampire she hoped they would die horrible deaths if they didn't leave Elliot and Ellen safe fits both of those qualities. And I don't think it's an accident Dan didn't have Ashley say anything about her own safety.

There is also that bit that Ashley is not mind controlled in traditional sense. Magus did specific alteration on her and has no additional control - it could easily make Ashley more dangerous to him. It's the situation which makes calm person "safer" - namely the fact that calm person is unlikely to do something which has low chance of success.

3 hours ago, ChronosCat said:
10 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Ah, probably not. Susan explains to Nanase later that Tedd suspects Nanase never had the extra pheromones. And now we know that Magus used the magic he learned from Pandora to with Tedd's TF gun before he fired it on Elliot.

Susan is explaining that the pheromones stop being given off after a while; Ellen might never have had any because Elliot might have stopped giving them off before he touched the Dewitchery Diamond. This doesn't mean that Elliot never had them.

Exactly.

3 hours ago, ChronosCat said:
4 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

It seems that Ellen is somehow more aware of what is going on than Sirleck and Magus think. Her pulse rate started to quicken as Magus related the plan Pandora had compelled him to follow. I wonder if this is leading up to a "You wouldn't want me to get angry" moment. These have been known to snap or at least temporarily suspend mental control.

My thinking as well. In fact I began to suspect that when Sirleck/Ellen avoided the racoon in the road. Sirleck may have blamed Ellen's muscle memory, but unless Ellen has had to dodge a lot of things in the road I wouldn't expect her body to react to something in the road through muscle memory alone; I would think that some part of her mind (maybe conscious, maybe subconscious) would have to make the judgment "this is a thing I do not want to run into/over" first (even if that judgment is made in a split second).

I was already commenting that Sirleck must be using more of Ellen's brain than just muscle memory.

3 hours ago, The Old Hack said:
3 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

It's strange though; Sirleck presumably has had many hosts over the years, so you'd think he'd know if his subjects were aware (and maybe even able to fight back) while he was possessing them. If so, why is Ellen different from his previous hosts? 

One possibility: Ellen is magically created. It gives her an advantage with energy buildups; it might also give her an edge when it comes to magic resistance. What Mr. Verres says in the second panel on this page seems to support that.

Sirleck had many hosts, but we don't know if ANY of them was awakened. Elliot's magic resistance was better than average person even back when he was "just" trained ASMA. So, Ellen is awakened AND created by magic.

... also, Sirleck might felt his hosts having some reactions before and might just be confused because he doesn't realise what Magus is saying would make Ellen angry.

3 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:
3 hours ago, Scotty said:

she just has the memories of that Ellen, she herself had never been or came from there, she wouldn't have multiple consciousnesses from it.

Let's not assume that in a universe with magic, magic isn't part of every human. We've never seen Sirleck use anything like a spell yet, so it seems reasonable to assume he's never had a host with usable magic

Such assumption would be provably false as Tedd specifically said normal person has next to none spell resistance.

3 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Maybe this also will apply to Magus; Elliot does have those three alter-egos that are quite different.

Raise your hand if you'd like to see Heidi taking over.

I would however not suppose this would mean trouble to Magus ; Magus is using entirely different method of control AND has more experience with magic. And unlike Sirleck, we got NO hint that his control might be slipping. Also, no matter how funny could Heidi taking over be, she's NOT ACTIVE now. Unless Magus casts the secret identity form spell, we won't have chance to see what their modified personalities do to him.

(I would however assume that they wouldn't allow Elliot to take over - they will simply affect Magus the same way they affect Elliot.)

Finally, note that there is possibility Elliot wouldn't resist because he agrees with Magus plan.

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