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Tom Sewell

Monday, December 18, 2017

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1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:
2 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Well, maybe there are more vampires raining hell in other parts of Moperville.

Maybe, however so far Sirleck didn't even mentioned them.

Sirleck meant he'd sent six vampires to kill Adrian. That could mean he sent all the vampires he hired--or did he? If Helena and Demetrius were distracted long enough for Magus and Sirleck to get to Elliot, wouldn't they be at the Mall right now? With more hunters? If they are, they seem to be pretty late out of the gate...

Remember that vampires attacked BEFORE Magus and Sirleck get to Elliot ... meaning, it didn't happened yet.

But yes, the alternative of them being distracted by some other vampire is there as well. Although killing Adrian is supposed to be the main distraction, so it doesn't make much sense trying to distract them from THAT.

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15 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Remember that vampires attacked BEFORE Magus and Sirleck get to Elliot ... meaning, it didn't happened yet.

But yes, the alternative of them being distracted by some other vampire is there as well. Although killing Adrian is supposed to be the main distraction, so it doesn't make much sense trying to distract them from THAT.

If I were to guess, I'd say at this point in the fight, Sirleck's probably got Ellen walking into the Dunkel residence and calling Elliot down. Or Elliot just got zapped and they're getting Ashley into the car.

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48 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Remember that vampires attacked BEFORE Magus and Sirleck get to Elliot ... meaning, it didn't happened yet.

 

30 minutes ago, Scotty said:

If I were to guess, I'd say at this point in the fight, Sirleck's probably got Ellen walking into the Dunkel residence and calling Elliot down. Or Elliot just got zapped and they're getting Ashley into the car.

"Shortly before"; exactly how long is "shortly" here?

I can't be sure Dan has considered this point: How do Helena and Demetrius find vampires? If they could find vampires quickly, they should have arranged their demises fairly quickly, since according to Magus, Moperville is "loaded with people who can take them out." But the vampires have been gathering for some time, and apparently it took them two months to lead Lady Andrea to six of them--seven counting Spidey. So at four weeks a month, seven days a week, that's an average of eight days per vampire.

So I'm assuming that they really can only detect the vampires easily when they are actually in attack mode, like when they directed Lady Andrea just in time to save Diane. Did they have exact coordinates for Lady Andrea. Well, even if they did, Lady Andrea doesn't have much of a sense of direction, so they had to guide her close enough for her to see her target.

Which brings up another snag: If a couple of toddler Immortals can find vampires, why hasn't Pandora found all the vampires at the mall? It wasn't Pandora who warned Susan that the Koala was attacking, it was Diane.

Anyway, vampire detection is a big key to the timing for Magus and Sirleck to pull off the Big Zap and make their getaway. Somehow they have to have gotten Helen and Demetrius distracted without killing off all the vampires before they can kill Adrian to fulfill Sirleck's version of the plan. Actual vampire attacks elsewhere much before risk putting Adrian on alert and even leaving the Mall. Doing all this in a crowded mall also has to be part of all opposition plans: Magus', Sirleck's, and Voltaire's.

Both of you could be right, but I wouldn't bet too many cookies on it.

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55 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Remember that vampires attacked BEFORE Magus and Sirleck get to Elliot ... meaning, it didn't happened yet.

But yes, the alternative of them being distracted by some other vampire is there as well. Although killing Adrian is supposed to be the main distraction, so it doesn't make much sense trying to distract them from THAT.

If I were to guess, I'd say at this point in the fight, Sirleck's probably got Ellen walking into the Dunkel residence and calling Elliot down. Or Elliot just got zapped and they're getting Ashley into the car.

My guess: At this point of the fight, Ashley is taking off her jacket.

3 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

I can't be sure Dan has considered this point: How do Helena and Demetrius find vampires? If they could find vampires quickly, they should have arranged their demises fairly quickly, since according to Magus, Moperville is "loaded with people who can take them out." But the vampires have been gathering for some time, and apparently it took them two months to lead Lady Andrea to six of them--seven counting Spidey. So at four weeks a month, seven days a week, that's an average of eight days per vampire.

It is possible they have some sense helping them with general area but needs more time to pinpoint exact place, also some of those vampires might've been moving ... and, for start, not arriving all at the same time.

4 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Which brings up another snag: If a couple of toddler Immortals can find vampires, why hasn't Pandora found all the vampires at the mall? It wasn't Pandora who warned Susan that the Koala was attacking, it was Diane.

Those three she knows about are shadowing the others.

5 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Anyway, vampire detection is a big key to the timing for Magus and Sirleck to pull off the Big Zap and make their getaway. Somehow they have to have gotten Helen and Demetrius distracted without killing off all the vampires before they can kill Adrian to fulfill Sirleck's version of the plan. Actual vampire attacks elsewhere much before risk putting Adrian on alert and even leaving the Mall. Doing all this in a crowded mall also has to be part of all opposition plans: Magus', Sirleck's, and Voltaire's.

The vampires are SUPPOSED to start distraction at specified time, presumably with the said distraction assumed to be enough to attract Helen and Demetrius. But yes, timing it so it would attract Helena and Demetrius for sure but Adrian wouldn't have enough time to kill the vampires would be hard. AND Pandora appearing might actually make Adrian FASTER - like, maybe according to Sirleck's plan, Adrian should only now noticed something is happening instead of one vampire being already dealt with and Adrian being armed with magical weapon and attacking another one.

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2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Pandora appearing might actually make Adrian FASTER

I'm not sure what you meant here. If you mean Pandora used her magic to make Adrian faster, I'm not sure she's allowed to even if he is her child. Maybe she used her magic to speed up the healing of Adrian after the fight with Abraham, but his own powers might have done that.

If any of you have read my (very old) Sailor Moon fanfics, you'd know that teleporting is a big feature of them. But there are only two characters in EGS canon that might be able to teleport: Lord Tedd and Nioi. Possibly Immortals can do it, but it's never been made explicit.

Too bad Jean Nessman seems to be busy right now.

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27 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:
37 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Pandora appearing might actually make Adrian FASTER

I'm not sure what you meant here.

Nothing magic. Just wasting less time on finding out what's happening.

28 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

If you mean Pandora used her magic to make Adrian faster, I'm not sure she's allowed to even if he is her child. Maybe she used her magic to speed up the healing of Adrian after the fight with Abraham, but his own powers might have done that.

She didn't heal him, but she did put transformation and/or illusion on him to disguise his "secret identity".

Not sure how it's not breaking the "empower and guide", but note that having sex with Blaike wasn't exactly empower and guide either and Dan explicitly said that the actual rules are more complicated than "empower and guide".

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15 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:
24 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

having sex with Blaike wasn't exactly empower and guide

But it would seem to fall within the rules if all human wizards have Immortal ancestors.

Obviously.

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1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

having sex with Blaike wasn't exactly empower and guide

If relations are consensual, then each participant empowers the other.

Hmmmmmm .... ok, that's probably less bending of immortal law than the empowering of Moperville.

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17 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

I can't be sure Dan has considered this point: How do Helena and Demetrius find vampires? If they could find vampires quickly, they should have arranged their demises fairly quickly, since according to Magus, Moperville is "loaded with people who can take them out." But the vampires have been gathering for some time, and apparently it took them two months to lead Lady Andrea to six of them--seven counting Spidey. So at four weeks a month, seven days a week, that's an average of eight days per vampire.

So I'm assuming that they really can only detect the vampires easily when they are actually in attack mode, like when they directed Lady Andrea just in time to save Diane. Did they have exact coordinates for Lady Andrea. Well, even if they did, Lady Andrea doesn't have much of a sense of direction, so they had to guide her close enough for her to see her target.

I imagine that's the case. Likely the main reason why many aberrations have the ability to assume a human form. It lets them blend into the crowd and hide from entities that would prefer to end their unnatural existence. But they must assume their monstrous form to attack and feed (or attach to a new host for aberrations that take their parasitic nature more literally, like Sirleck), which makes them vulnerable to detection as actual monsters. Then there just needs to be an Immortal (or someone else with the ability to detect them and/or fight them) within range to detect the vampire and keep tabs on it long enough to get help.

17 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Which brings up another snag: If a couple of toddler Immortals can find vampires, why hasn't Pandora found all the vampires at the mall? It wasn't Pandora who warned Susan that the Koala was attacking, it was Diane.

The other vampires might not be in their monstrous forms yet. Also there's timing and placement. Pandora was next to Adrian, and was probably just too distant to warn Susan as they didn't arrive until after Susan attempted to fight the Koala and he fled.(She was probably hoping that Zeus would actually be able to do something other than ineffectually panic)

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2 hours ago, Drasvin said:

The other vampires might not be in their monstrous forms yet. Also there's timing and placement. Pandora was next to Adrian, and was probably just too distant to warn Susan as they didn't arrive until after Susan attempted to fight the Koala and he fled.(She was probably hoping that Zeus would actually be able to do something other than ineffectually panic)

Depending on how you count Pandora has missed 2 or 3 vampires at the mall.  I also found it a bit strange that she didn't catch them all as well.

I can rationalize it as concern for Adrian, Susan and Diane clouding her vision.  Combined with Vampires presumably having ways of hiding from Immortals.

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20 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Nothing magic. Just wasting less time on finding out what's happening.

Bascially, you're saying that Pandora telling Adrian about the vampires before they found him, and his finding Susan and subsequent being armed by her, gave him an initiative bonus against the vampires, instead of causing him to be flat-footed and flanked with no weapon. Yeah, I can buy that. :j

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Quantity has its own quality, as Stalin said (and nobody alive can say he didn't coin the phrase.)

However, if what Scarf Guy said about the other vampires is true, the key criteria seem to have been "Stupid enough to take the job." Maybe Diane can use her cheerleading moves to distract some of them. Or just wave something shiny.

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1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Maybe Diane can use her cheerleading moves to distract some of them. Or just wave something shiny.

Considering she's a "baby hunter" she'd be shiny enough herself for the vampires.

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14 hours ago, Drasvin said:
On 12/20/2017 at 4:42 AM, Tom Sewell said:

So I'm assuming that they really can only detect the vampires easily when they are actually in attack mode, like when they directed Lady Andrea just in time to save Diane. Did they have exact coordinates for Lady Andrea. Well, even if they did, Lady Andrea doesn't have much of a sense of direction, so they had to guide her close enough for her to see her target.

I imagine that's the case. Likely the main reason why many aberrations have the ability to assume a human form. It lets them blend into the crowd and hide from entities that would prefer to end their unnatural existence. But they must assume their monstrous form to attack and feed (or attach to a new host for aberrations that take their parasitic nature more literally, like Sirleck), which makes them vulnerable to detection as actual monsters. Then there just needs to be an Immortal (or someone else with the ability to detect them and/or fight them) within range to detect the vampire and keep tabs on it long enough to get help.

Makes sense. They would definitely be easier to notice when in monstrous form, and likely not only by sight but also by supernatural senses.

10 hours ago, Kazzellin said:
On 12/20/2017 at 5:34 AM, hkmaly said:

Nothing magic. Just wasting less time on finding out what's happening.

Bascially, you're saying that Pandora telling Adrian about the vampires before they found him, and his finding Susan and subsequent being armed by her, gave him an initiative bonus against the vampires, instead of causing him to be flat-footed and flanked with no weapon. Yeah, I can buy that. :j

Yes. It gave HIM an initiative bonus and caused the vampires to lose it (the bonus).

14 hours ago, Drasvin said:
10 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Maybe Diane can use her cheerleading moves to distract some of them. Or just wave something shiny.

Considering she's a "baby hunter" she'd be shiny enough herself for the vampires.

Considering vampires don't actually care about gold, I would say she's best "shiny" thing around.

6 hours ago, The Old Hack said:
6 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

If Rhoda helps.

Well, if she shrinks Tedd and makes Diane bigger, it should be easy. Tedd might object, though. :danshiftyeyes:

Tedd can likely disenchant himself pretty quickly. However, just making Diane bigger might be enough.

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14 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Depending on how you count Pandora has missed 2 or 3 vampires at the mall.  I also found it a bit strange that she didn't catch them all as well.

I can rationalize it as concern for Adrian, Susan and Diane clouding her vision.  Combined with Vampires presumably having ways of hiding from Immortals.

Pandora seems to be limited to either omniscience or being sane and caring about the welfare of her family.  If she let her sanity slip away, she'd likely be able to predict there being more aberrations, and maybe even who hired them and why, but she might wind up not caring who won the fight as long as it was entertaining.

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10 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Pandora seems to be limited to either omniscience or being sane and caring about the welfare of her family.  If she let her sanity slip away, she'd likely be able to predict there being more aberrations, and maybe even who hired them and why, but she might wind up not caring who won the fight as long as it was entertaining.

That opens up an idea for how Pandora might semi-reset.  By letting all the madness and omniscience be consumed but not this core piece of her.  Logically most of her power could disappear with it...

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4 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:
10 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Pandora seems to be limited to either omniscience or being sane and caring about the welfare of her family.  If she let her sanity slip away, she'd likely be able to predict there being more aberrations, and maybe even who hired them and why, but she might wind up not caring who won the fight as long as it was entertaining.

That opens up an idea for how Pandora might semi-reset.  By letting all the madness and omniscience be consumed but not this core piece of her.  Logically most of her power could disappear with it...

I don't think it's so ... black&white? It's not omniscience OR sanity, it's more like continuous scale ... but it still means that the more she focus on keeping sane and caring about family, the less omni her omniscience is. Unfortunately, with no clear boundary, it's harder to "let the madness go".

(I suspect that while she would be convinced she has it under control, she would ultimately fail in that semi-reset, or at least almost fail.)

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10 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I don't think it's so ... black&white? It's not omniscience OR sanity, it's more like continuous scale ... but it still means that the more she focus on keeping sane and caring about family, the less omni her omniscience is. Unfortunately, with no clear boundary, it's harder to "let the madness go".

(I suspect that while she would be convinced she has it under control, she would ultimately fail in that semi-reset, or at least almost fail.)

It was just a thought I had for framing how Pandora could semi-reset.  The whole reasons Immortals reset is because they get too powerful/aware/crazy.  Maybe it's not as simple as letting go, but the question is if there's a way to deal with the madness without starting entirely at Square 1.

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