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hkmaly

Story, Monday January 8, 2018

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3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Well it's true the last Q&A said Edward made them but before he said he will order them. Why would he lie?

Maybe he didn't want the kids to know he could make them? I dunno, maybe Dan forgot what he had Edward say back then, or maybe he retconned it at the time of the Q&A that Edward could make them himself,

3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

The "wand" Pandora created was just a stick, Pandora said it herself. Only when Tedd enchanted it it actually became wand. He might get similar result with enchanting normal store-bought stirring spoon. Remember that the plastic toy watches almost worked.

It was a stick that was made to look like a wand, but Pandora could have been simplifying things as well, don't know for sure if any piece of wood is enough. For Tedd maybe, but a wand made out of anything might not hold enough energy to be usable by others after a system change, but it might be enough for Tedd to put a creation spell that would make a proper wand "blank".

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8 hours ago, Scotty said:
13 hours ago, hkmaly said:

The "wand" Pandora created was just a stick, Pandora said it herself. Only when Tedd enchanted it it actually became wand. He might get similar result with enchanting normal store-bought stirring spoon. Remember that the plastic toy watches almost worked.

It was a stick that was made to look like a wand, but Pandora could have been simplifying things as well, don't know for sure if any piece of wood is enough. For Tedd maybe, but a wand made out of anything might not hold enough energy to be usable by others after a system change, but it might be enough for Tedd to put a creation spell that would make a proper wand "blank".

The watches functioned as a wand, or spell catalyst for the general technical term, they just couldn't store any energy because they were too small, so would depend entirely on the user's energy. Based on this Q&A, size is a major factor in a spell catalyst's energy storage, though materials and craftsdwarfship how well crafted it is can improve the efficiency of the catalyst. Seemingly anything could be made into a spell catalyst if Tedd wanted to, with the energy capacity being determined first by the size of the catalyst, followed by materials and quality of the object's design. He could even make the Wii Motes into spell catalysts, though I suspect they might still be a little on the small side.

As an aside, I wonder if Grace could use a wand if it was large enough to supply all the power for the spell.

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1 hour ago, Drasvin said:

The watches functioned as a wand, or spell catalyst for the general technical term, they just couldn't store any energy because they were too small, so would depend entirely on the user's energy. Based on this Q&A, size is a major factor in a spell catalyst's energy storage, though materials and craftsdwarfship how well crafted it is can improve the efficiency of the catalyst. Seemingly anything could be made into a spell catalyst if Tedd wanted to, with the energy capacity being determined first by the size of the catalyst, followed by materials and quality of the object's design. He could even make the Wii Motes into spell catalysts, though I suspect they might still be a little on the small side.

As an aside, I wonder if Grace could use a wand if it was large enough to supply all the power for the spell.

The watches only worked because of the high ambient energy in Moperville, if the system changed, that high ambient energy could be gone (well even if the system didn't change, the clogs going to be removed and the ambient energy will still fade) the watches will no longer work for anyone but Tedd (because he doesn't need ambient energy).

Yes Tedd could potentially take any item and turn it into a wand, but there's no guarantee that any wand created this way would work for anyone else but Tedd (or other Seers of course) So that's where my idea of maybe Seers have a sense that tells them what's best for making wands with came from, but maybe they don't and the first wands they make are just temporary until they can magically create proper wands.

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13 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, Drasvin said:

The watches functioned as a wand, or spell catalyst for the general technical term, they just couldn't store any energy because they were too small, so would depend entirely on the user's energy. Based on this Q&A, size is a major factor in a spell catalyst's energy storage, though materials and craftsdwarfship how well crafted it is can improve the efficiency of the catalyst. Seemingly anything could be made into a spell catalyst if Tedd wanted to, with the energy capacity being determined first by the size of the catalyst, followed by materials and quality of the object's design. He could even make the Wii Motes into spell catalysts, though I suspect they might still be a little on the small side.

As an aside, I wonder if Grace could use a wand if it was large enough to supply all the power for the spell.

The watches only worked because of the high ambient energy in Moperville, if the system changed, that high ambient energy could be gone (well even if the system didn't change, the clogs going to be removed and the ambient energy will still fade) the watches will no longer work for anyone but Tedd (because he doesn't need ambient energy).

Yes Tedd could potentially take any item and turn it into a wand, but there's no guarantee that any wand created this way would work for anyone else but Tedd (or other Seers of course) So that's where my idea of maybe Seers have a sense that tells them what's best for making wands with came from, but maybe they don't and the first wands they make are just temporary until they can magically create proper wands.

I think you might be confusing the watches and Tedd's glove. Pandora was talking about his glove when he told him it wouldn't work for anyone but a seer. No one else would be able to use the glove to enchant things, but she didn't mention anything about the watches not being able to be used by others. (And where does it state Tedd doesn't need ambient energy? He has a lot of personal energy as a seer, but he would still subconsciously draw on the ambient energy like everyone else)

Also, it states right in the Q&A that "Basically? Tedd's watches don't have batteries. Whatever energy is being used is provided by the caster." Anyone with sufficient personal energy should be able to use the watches. The ambient energy build up just provides additional energy to make up the difference and cut down on the user's personal energy consumption, similar to how it helped Not-Tengu push his magic beyond what he could achieve on his own and how Sarah can use her mark spell despite not having enough personal energy to be able to use it yet.

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27 minutes ago, Scotty said:
48 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

I think you might be confusing the watches and Tedd's glove. Pandora was talking about his glove when he told him it wouldn't work for anyone but a seer.

There's also "Those watches of yours wouldn't work anywhere else in the world".

 From that page: "Spell catalysts that small should require a lot of energy to use. Regardless of whether the caster is aware of it, the surrounding magic makes it easier." Combined with the Q&A about spell catalysts, there's nothing to suggest that a person with sufficient personal energy couldn't use the watch outside of Moperville. But Tedd didn't want a way to simply give magic users more spells, they already have wands for that. He wanted a simple and safe way to change the world, which means he needed a device that could be mass manufactured, appear technological, and usable by anyone, regardless of the person's personal power level. While the watches fulfill the first two criteria, they fail on the most important one, because most people don't have enough personal energy to cast spells.

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27 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

 From that page: "Spell catalysts that small should require a lot of energy to use. Regardless of whether the caster is aware of it, the surrounding magic makes it easier." Combined with the Q&A about spell catalysts, there's nothing to suggest that a person with sufficient personal energy couldn't use the watch outside of Moperville. But Tedd didn't want a way to simply give magic users more spells, they already have wands for that. He wanted a simple and safe way to change the world, which means he needed a device that could be mass manufactured, appear technological, and usable by anyone, regardless of the person's personal power level. While the watches fulfill the first two criteria, they fail on the most important one, because most people don't have enough personal energy to cast spells.

Back when Tedd told Sarah about his goals, he assumed that he could use something like the watches to increase people's resistances, but later the whale told Tedd the watches don't hold anywhere near enough power to be usable by just anyone. Maybe someone with a high degree of magic, like Nanase could use one by suppling her own energy, but the idea is, if the magic system changes, it's strongly implied that everyone who's not a Seer will have their magic reset and they would have to start over trying to awaken, it would be worse than when Nanase was burnt out and watches won't help her if the ambient energy around Moperville goes low enough to make them unusable. Pandora described Tedd as being "a well of power" that has no need for ambient energy so Tedd could make and use watches himself, but he'd need to be able to make a proper wand that can hold enough energy to cast a spell before he can start sharing those spells with others and help them re-awaken.

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18 hours ago, Scotty said:
22 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Well it's true the last Q&A said Edward made them but before he said he will order them. Why would he lie?

Maybe he didn't want the kids to know he could make them? I dunno, maybe Dan forgot what he had Edward say back then, or maybe he retconned it at the time of the Q&A that Edward could make them himself,

Isn't lie like that dangerous? Although maybe that was before he decided that feeding misinformation to them is not safe.

9 hours ago, Drasvin said:
18 hours ago, Scotty said:

It was a stick that was made to look like a wand, but Pandora could have been simplifying things as well, don't know for sure if any piece of wood is enough. For Tedd maybe, but a wand made out of anything might not hold enough energy to be usable by others after a system change, but it might be enough for Tedd to put a creation spell that would make a proper wand "blank".

The watches functioned as a wand, or spell catalyst for the general technical term, they just couldn't store any energy because they were too small, so would depend entirely on the user's energy. Based on this Q&A, size is a major factor in a spell catalyst's energy storage, though materials and craftsdwarfship how well crafted it is can improve the efficiency of the catalyst. Seemingly anything could be made into a spell catalyst if Tedd wanted to, with the energy capacity being determined first by the size of the catalyst, followed by materials and quality of the object's design. He could even make the Wii Motes into spell catalysts, though I suspect they might still be a little on the small side.

Yes ; presumably, Pandora's wand was "optimized" to hold lot of energy for it's size, but it was still something normal human could do if you tell him what wood to use.

9 hours ago, Drasvin said:

As an aside, I wonder if Grace could use a wand if it was large enough to supply all the power for the spell.

Might still be hard for her due to interference ...

6 hours ago, Drasvin said:

But Tedd didn't want a way to simply give magic users more spells, they already have wands for that. He wanted a simple and safe way to change the world, which means he needed a device that could be mass manufactured, appear technological, and usable by anyone, regardless of the person's personal power level. While the watches fulfill the first two criteria, they fail on the most important one, because most people don't have enough personal energy to cast spells.

Actually, they fail on mass manufacturing too ; Tedd THOUGH that they can be made automatically but in reality he was necessary for putting spell in them.

5 hours ago, Scotty said:

Back when Tedd told Sarah about his goals, he assumed that he could use something like the watches to increase people's resistances, but later the whale told Tedd the watches don't hold anywhere near enough power to be usable by just anyone. Maybe someone with a high degree of magic, like Nanase could use one by suppling her own energy

I think the power required is not so big and not only Nanase can use them easily, but Ellen, Elliot and Justin can as well, basically any magic user. Unfortunately, not common people. Common people can only use them in Moperville.

5 hours ago, Scotty said:

if the magic system changes, it's strongly implied that everyone who's not a Seer will have their magic reset and they would have to start over trying to awaken, it would be worse than when Nanase was burnt out and watches won't help her if the ambient energy around Moperville goes low enough to make them unusable.

Re-reading what dream wizard said, I'm not sure where I get it, but I would think people will get their SPELLS reset, not magic power. Nanase would still have her talent and possibly even her power, but she would need to learn how to use that power (for anything else than enhancing her strength and boob size) from start. Of course, the watches made before reset wouldn't work.

6 hours ago, Scotty said:

Pandora described Tedd as being "a well of power" that has no need for ambient energy so Tedd could make and use watches himself, but he'd need to be able to make a proper wand that can hold enough energy to cast a spell before he can start sharing those spells with others and help them re-awaken.

... I think that he could actually teach people with watches, but magic users might be more easily convinced with traditional wands ... AND obviously he would need wand to teach someone who didn't awakened yet, like Sarah.

 

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4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Isn't lie like that dangerous? Although maybe that was before he decided that feeding misinformation to them is not safe.

I'm inclined to believe that it was before he decided that the Main Eight were getting in deep, then again, there probably isn't too much harm in not revealing how spellbooks are made.

 

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14 hours ago, hkmaly said:
20 hours ago, Drasvin said:

But Tedd didn't want a way to simply give magic users more spells, they already have wands for that. He wanted a simple and safe way to change the world, which means he needed a device that could be mass manufactured, appear technological, and usable by anyone, regardless of the person's personal power level. While the watches fulfill the first two criteria, they fail on the most important one, because most people don't have enough personal energy to cast spells.

Actually, they fail on mass manufacturing too ; Tedd THOUGH that they can be made automatically but in reality he was necessary for putting spell in them.

While he wouldn't be able to get the volume of a fully automated assembly line, he could still mass produce the watches (if he wanted to that is. He probably doesn't at the moment due to the risk of magic system change). He would just need his glove to make the process easier and a conveyor belt full of watches going by. It would be like older assembly lines, where the only automation was the belts moving pieces around.

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An alternate idea regarding Mr. V "ordering" a spellbook: for a human wizard creating one is a process that takes a couple days, and he was just skipping over the details between "I see a need to provide them to you" and "a few days later, here they are".

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9 hours ago, Drasvin said:
23 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Actually, they fail on mass manufacturing too ; Tedd THOUGH that they can be made automatically but in reality he was necessary for putting spell in them.

While he wouldn't be able to get the volume of a fully automated assembly line, he could still mass produce the watches (if he wanted to that is. He probably doesn't at the moment due to the risk of magic system change). He would just need his glove to make the process easier and a conveyor belt full of watches going by. It would be like older assembly lines, where the only automation was the belts moving pieces around.

He WOULD probably get tired relatively fast doing that. Not talking about bored.

8 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

An alternate idea regarding Mr. V "ordering" a spellbook: for a human wizard creating one is a process that takes a couple days, and he was just skipping over the details between "I see a need to provide them to you" and "a few days later, here they are".

Or a compromise: Mr. Verres actually WANTED to order the books BECAUSE he was too lazy - ehm, because making spellbooks takes some time and he had better things to do, but when he tried he found that they don't have any on stock and it would take long to get some so he took care about it himself.

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Or a compromise: Mr. Verres actually WANTED to order the books BECAUSE he was too lazy - ehm, because making spellbooks takes some time and he had better things to do, but when he tried he found that they don't have any on stock and it would take long to get some so he took care about it himself.

Maybe it took a while to get the books because Edward also had to make a report about Elliot's and Ellen's awakenings for the FBI and he needed to include what was written in the spellbooks at that time?

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There obviously must be SOME mechanism for attaching a spellbook to a particular person. So it could be a combination thing - proto-spellbooks with a few standard spells cast *on* them (a camoflage "boring book" spell being an obvious one) are produced in quantity somewhere, but then have to be shipped to the wizards who will attach them to the recipients. And a book isn't really a spellbook until the latter happens. So in that case, Mr. V could order them AND make them.

Fairies of some (unspecified) age, of course, would be powerful enough to do it all themselves in one shot, including fabricating the book itself out of nothing. Which would be how Nanase and Susan got theirs.

(I also kind of like the idea that Mr. V would have to report to DGB just what is in Elliot's and Ellen's spellbooks before he actually hands them over.)

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1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

There obviously must be SOME mechanism for attaching a spellbook to a particular person. So it could be a combination thing - proto-spellbooks with a few standard spells cast *on* them (a camoflage "boring book" spell being an obvious one) are produced in quantity somewhere, but then have to be shipped to the wizards who will attach them to the recipients. And a book isn't really a spellbook until the latter happens. So in that case, Mr. V could order them AND make them.

That was my original idea, but people here said it doesn't count as making them. So, I though about alternatives.

1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

I also kind of like the idea that Mr. V would have to report to DGB just what is in Elliot's and Ellen's spellbooks before he actually hands them over.

I don't like it but I consider it very likely. Also, if their spellbooks are not eavesdropped, I would consider it proof it's not possible.

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