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hkmaly

Story, Monday January 8, 2018

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

... when Jerry said "the vampires are dead", how many vampires was he talking about? All of them?

Probably not, given what we saw in the car around the same time.  This is probably the bullet Sirleck felt like he dodged.

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Looks like like reset time...or is it? There is the possibility that Pandora is so powerful the combined power of all the other Immortals may not be enough to force her to reset. She could break whatever magical mechanism they set up to enforce that Only Guide and Empower rule.

Which, come to think of it, sounds like exactly what Voltaire wants.

3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

.. when Jerry said "the vampires are dead", how many vampires was he talking about? All of them?

I got on the forum to reference this Next Generation episode, but see hkmaly beat me to it. The way Zeus is acting, I'm thinking that's exactly what Pandora just did--except wouldn't Sirleck be dead too?

Maybe he is. It gets dark early in Chicagoland in January. Good thing everyone is wearing their seatbelts. I now suspect Dan went to extra trouble for that detail.

Killing all the vampires  makes a nice companion piece to Pandora's other great deed: Killing all the werewolves.

Another reason I think Pandora may not reset is that someone needs to tear Voltaire to shreds. Or maybe feed him into a sausage grinder, as Wonder Wart Hog once did to a villain he took down. All the strings of ground meat emerging were saying "Ouch!"

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So this is what that was. "All outdone by humanity's toys" now sounds like more grim than ever. More war to come, I hope not.

6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... when Jerry said "the vampires are dead", how many vampires was he talking about? All of them?

Sounds like an "EVERYONE!" here.

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I'm not sure how to feel about this. On one hand, this is clearly what everything in this arc has been leading up to. It's been signposted repeatedly. I shouldn't be surprised about this.

On the other... I wanted to be surprised. I wanted Dan to defy expectations and not do the thing he'd been so clearly teasing for months. (I also would've liked him to have gotten to this point much earlier, if this was the way it was going to go all along, but I'll avoid this subject.) Is there still room for things to go differently? Oh, most definitely, Pandora isn't going to "just reset" - that's a narrative trope; if a course of action has been verbalised or shown ahead of time (like a heist in a casino), things aren't going to go exactly to plan. If we'd heard nothing about the breaking of Immortal law and forced resets, then it would probably go normally. But this is the culmination of Pandora's - the most compelling character in this entire comic - arc. It's going to be something special...

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6 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Killing all the vampires  makes a nice companion piece to Pandora's other great deed: Killing all the werewolves.

The difference between vampires and werewolves is that werewolves didn't intentionally become what they were, well maybe a couple did, or the original werewolf did, but mainly werewolves were people that were cursed by other werewolves and as Adrian had pointed out Pandora didn't try to find a way to cure them.

Fortunately in the case of vampires, they chose to be what they are, they knew what they'd have to do to survive and had no issue with it. So killing all vampires wouldn't be a bad thing.

Obviously, the other difference is in the case of the werewolves, Pandora would have acquired assistance (through guiding and empowering) in killing them or she would have been reset long ago if she did it herself.

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I agree with what Critter Keeper said; this was the bullet Sirleck dodged, which means Pandora didn't kill all of the Aberrations in the world, just in the area (possibly even just those in the mall).

As for Pandora's reset, whether or not she is capable of fighting it, I expect Pandora to go along with the reset - she was planning on resetting soon anyway. However, even with what little time she has left I expect her tell Adrian he's fathered children, and to try to make it her reset a refresh.

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18 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

I agree with what Critter Keeper said; this was the bullet Sirleck dodged, which means Pandora didn't kill all of the Aberrations in the world, just in the area (possibly even just those in the mall).

As for Pandora's reset, whether or not she is capable of fighting it, I expect Pandora to go along with the reset - she was planning on resetting soon anyway. However, even with what little time she has left I expect her tell Adrian he's fathered children, and to try to make it her reset a refresh.

So, Pandora might not be powerful enough to resist all Immortals forcing her to reset, but is she powerful enough to perform a Refresh instead of a Reset while being pressured into resetting?  On the fly?  Having never done it before and no preparation (that we know of)?  For many reasons, I would say highly unlikely to impossible, but obviously I am hoping she does.

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21 minutes ago, Tuscahoma said:
40 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

I agree with what Critter Keeper said; this was the bullet Sirleck dodged, which means Pandora didn't kill all of the Aberrations in the world, just in the area (possibly even just those in the mall).

As for Pandora's reset, whether or not she is capable of fighting it, I expect Pandora to go along with the reset - she was planning on resetting soon anyway. However, even with what little time she has left I expect her tell Adrian he's fathered children, and to try to make it her reset a refresh.

So, Pandora might not be powerful enough to resist all Immortals forcing her to reset, but is she powerful enough to perform a Refresh instead of a Reset while being pressured into resetting?  On the fly?  Having never done it before and no preparation (that we know of)?  For many reasons, I would say highly unlikely to impossible, but obviously I am hoping she does.

If anyone could do, it would be Pandora.

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33 minutes ago, Tuscahoma said:

So, Pandora might not be powerful enough to resist all Immortals forcing her to reset, but is she powerful enough to perform a Refresh instead of a Reset while being pressured into resetting?  On the fly?  Having never done it before and no preparation (that we know of)?  For many reasons, I would say highly unlikely to impossible, but obviously I am hoping she does.

One possibility is that she is powerful enough to resist the reset, but chooses to merely modify the reset instead. More likely she doesn't have enough power to completely resist, and doesn't know if she can pull off refreshing, but is going to try anyway.

It's also important to note that Pandora's greatest asset isn't magical strength, it's how intelligent she is. Altering how the reset works is probably not so much a matter of brute force but careful modification of the reset magic; all she needs is an idea of what to change and just enough power to make those changes. 

And it's not necessarily with no preparation; she's had most of the day to think about what to do and start getting ready. Granted, that's not much time, but it's better than nothing.

...A new thought: I wonder what Voltair was hoping to happen here? I think it would be pretty cool if he expected her to resist the reset and thus force the Immortals to gather together to re-asses both their laws and how to enforce them, only to have those plans dashed when she accepts the reset. (Whatever he expects, I hope it's not what he gets; there are some villains I'll root for up to a point, but Voltair is the sort of villain I much prefer seeing being thwarted.)

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3 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

...A new thought: I wonder what Voltair was hoping to happen here? I think it would be pretty cool if he expected her to resist the reset and thus force the Immortals to gather together to re-asses both their laws and how to enforce them, only to have those plans dashed when she accepts the reset. (Whatever he expects, I hope it's not what he gets; there are some villains I'll root for up to a point, but Voltair is the sort of villain I much prefer seeing being thwarted.)

I think Voltaire is using Pandora as a sacrifice to make a point.

"Look at how lousy our law is.  An Immortal defending her child against aberrations has to reset."

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Posted (edited)

If this is really the intended result of Voltaire's plan, then yes.  Immortal law needs to be amended.
Immortals who recklessly endanger mortals to make other immortals take prohibited actions should themselves be forcibly reset.

And did she really destroy all the vampires in the mall?
Check the  Hot Topic for survivors.
Is there a bloodmobile in the parking lot?

Edited by Pharaoh RutinTutin
Spelling

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13 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Looks like like reset time...or is it? There is the possibility that Pandora is so powerful the combined power of all the other Immortals may not be enough to force her to reset. She could break whatever magical mechanism they set up to enforce that Only Guide and Empower rule.

Which, come to think of it, sounds like exactly what Voltaire wants.

She's unlikely to break it for HIM, which is what he wants.

13 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

I got on the forum to reference this Next Generation episode, but see hkmaly beat me to it. The way Zeus is acting, I'm thinking that's exactly what Pandora just did--except wouldn't Sirleck be dead too?

Well, he's aberration, but maybe he's not vampire? The spell or whatever Pandora did might've specified target in way which excluded Sirleck by mistake.

6 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

As for Pandora's reset, whether or not she is capable of fighting it, I expect Pandora to go along with the reset - she was planning on resetting soon anyway. However, even with what little time she has left I expect her tell Adrian he's fathered children, and to try to make it her reset a refresh.

I'm still surprised she HAS any time left. But maybe it's BECAUSE she's actively resisting?

6 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:

So, Pandora might not be powerful enough to resist all Immortals forcing her to reset, but is she powerful enough to perform a Refresh instead of a Reset while being pressured into resetting?  On the fly?  Having never done it before and no preparation (that we know of)?  For many reasons, I would say highly unlikely to impossible, but obviously I am hoping she does.

Agree with both. Unlikely but still hoping.

5 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

It's also important to note that Pandora's greatest asset isn't magical strength, it's how intelligent she is. Altering how the reset works is probably not so much a matter of brute force but careful modification of the reset magic; all she needs is an idea of what to change and just enough power to make those changes. 

And it's not necessarily with no preparation; she's had most of the day to think about what to do and start getting ready. Granted, that's not much time, but it's better than nothing.

... in a way, she would have MORE power now, with other immortals sending her theirs ... but I don't think that counts ... does it?

And, while she might've been thinking about it, I don't think she was planning to do it while being force reset. Unless she predicted it. Which is not exactly impossible for her ...

2 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:
6 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

...A new thought: I wonder what Voltair was hoping to happen here? I think it would be pretty cool if he expected her to resist the reset and thus force the Immortals to gather together to re-asses both their laws and how to enforce them, only to have those plans dashed when she accepts the reset. (Whatever he expects, I hope it's not what he gets; there are some villains I'll root for up to a point, but Voltair is the sort of villain I much prefer seeing being thwarted.)

I think Voltaire is using Pandora as a sacrifice to make a point.

"Look at how lousy our law is.  An Immortal defending her child against aberrations has to reset."

It would make sense. Not sure it would actually convince other immortals, but sounds like something worth to try.

2 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

If this is really the intended result of Voltaire's plan, then yes.  Immortal law needs to be amended.
Immortals who recklessly endanger mortals to make other immortals take prohibited actions should themselves be forcibly reset.

... too complicated to prove that. Also, if that "just" wouldn't work, then it wouldn't be needed ...

 

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I admit I'm also in agreement with the idea of Pandora either resisting the reset or redirecting it to her planned refresh - though I doubt she intended to need to do so while being forcibly reset. Or did she? Given her comment in panel three, it's likely she relly did predict something like this might happen. It is, after all, basically her greatest worryfor her son played out. So, she has a minute, tops, before forced reset happens. Three things:

1) How many of the immortals have to send this power? Is it a conscious or unconscious decision on their parts? If conscious, what happens if (for example) Zues decides he's not going to help her reset?

2) Is she going to try talking to Raven about stuff really fast, or would she instead do a Vulcan-esque information dump on him? Or just tell him to seek out Heka and get an explanation (in which case, we'd get to find out if Raven is allowed to leave the country via man-made apparatus (ie, fly), or if he can teleport)?

3) 

4 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

I think Voltaire is using Pandora as a sacrifice to make a point.

"Look at how lousy our law is.  An Immortal defending her child against aberrations has to reset."

And if this is the case and he makes an appearance, how hilarious would it be for Pandora to reappear, say she "just refreshed herself instead, thanks for the boost, and I don't like you interfering with my family"?

We shall see what Wednesday brings, yes? 

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1 minute ago, Kazzellin said:

1) How many of the immortals have to send this power? Is it a conscious or unconscious decision on their parts? If conscious, what happens if (for example) Zues decides he's not going to help her reset?

2) Is she going to try talking to Raven about stuff really fast, or would she instead do a Vulcan-esque information dump on him? Or just tell him to seek out Heka and get an explanation (in which case, we'd get to find out if Raven is allowed to leave the country via man-made apparatus (ie, fly), or if he can teleport)?

3) And if this is the case and he makes an appearance, how hilarious would it be for Pandora to reappear, say she "just refreshed herself instead, thanks for the boost, and I don't like you interfering with my family"?

We shall see what Wednesday brings, yes? 

1) I believe it is automatic and unconscious.

2) What is the speed of magic?  The forced reset is triggered by the Immortal realizing they violated Immortal Law. (hell of a loophole if you think about it).  How fast to gather the little blip of power from every Immortal and direct it at the violator?

3) A better question is: "What does a "refresh" entail?"  What must Pandora give up in order to refresh?  Obviously the creeping insanity.  That's the whole point.  What is that insanity attached to?  I suspect the accumulated power and perception as well... 

If Pandora resists the reset, I expect it will be temporary, just long enough to say a few important things before being overwhelmed..  If she successfully refreshes, I think she'll come back in all ways a new immortal but with her important emotional attachments intact.

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57 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

1) I believe it is automatic and unconscious.

More importantly, Zeus believes so.

1 hour ago, Kazzellin said:

So, she has a minute, tops, before forced reset happens.

57 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

2) What is the speed of magic?  The forced reset is triggered by the Immortal realizing they violated Immortal Law. (hell of a loophole if you think about it).  How fast to gather the little blip of power from every Immortal and direct it at the violator?

As I said, I'm surprised she isn't reset already.

1 hour ago, Kazzellin said:

2) Is she going to try talking to Raven about stuff really fast, or would she instead do a Vulcan-esque information dump on him? Or just tell him to seek out Heka and get an explanation (in which case, we'd get to find out if Raven is allowed to leave the country via man-made apparatus (ie, fly), or if he can teleport)?

Is Adrian capable of RECEIVING such dump? Maybe she will do the dump to Zeus instead ... oh wait she does. EVERY immortal gets info dump from her, which may include Susan and Diane being Adrian's descendants because it IS sort of relevant.

Meanwhile, regarding Heka, not sure if Adrian would be ABLE to contact him (or if he knows who that is or where he is).

57 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

3) A better question is: "What does a "refresh" entail?"  What must Pandora give up in order to refresh?  Obviously the creeping insanity.  That's the whole point.  What is that insanity attached to?  I suspect the accumulated power and perception as well... 

Not entirely. The point of reset is to get rid of the accumulated power and perception with the insanity attached to it.

She will definitely be as weak as Zeus ... well, weaker, Zeus is at least few weeks after returning from reset.

Now, even remembering more than Helena and Demetrius will be success for forced reset. What she plans is to keep the emotional attachment, yes.

1 hour ago, Kazzellin said:

And if this is the case and he makes an appearance, how hilarious would it be for Pandora to reappear, say she "just refreshed herself instead, thanks for the boost, and I don't like you interfering with my family"?

Might be hilarious but certainly would be risky from her. She would be weaker and Voltaire could easily destroy her.

1 hour ago, Kazzellin said:

We shall see what Wednesday brings, yes?

Yes, but lot of raised points will only be answered much later.

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If Pandora just killed all vampires on Earth, it would be an event more likely to trigger the reset of Magic, especially if some of the vampires are public figures. In fact, it might change magic for immortals. Note that Heka is an immortal being but not what used to be called a fairy, so this suggests that the immortals formerly known as fairies might be under restrictions similar to the ones that have governed human magic. Maybe Tedd's secret second purpose has something to do with a change in Immortal magic.

Well, maybe.

What I think will  happen is that the other Immortals won't be able to force Pandora to reset, but she will decide she has to reset or she will become a danger to her family. After, of course, shredding Voltaire.

On the other hand, having Pandora resetting into a genuine little girl or even an infant has appeal. The most awesome season climax of the original Sailormoon was Usagi returning with baby Hotaru in her arms.

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5 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

If Pandora just killed all vampires on Earth, it would be an event more likely to trigger the reset of Magic, especially if some of the vampires are public figures. In fact, it might change magic for immortals. Note that Heka is an immortal being but not what used to be called a fairy, so this suggests that the immortals formerly known as fairies might be under restrictions similar to the ones that have governed human magic. Maybe Tedd's secret second purpose has something to do with a change in Immortal magic.

I doubt Pandora has killed all vampires on earth, mostly for meta reasons.  Having Sirleck spontaneously combust while driving Elliot/Ellen's car would be anti-climax.

All the vampires at the mall?  Oh yeah.  Break out the brooms and dustpans.

 

2 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

On the other hand, having Pandora resetting into a genuine little girl or even an infant has appeal. The most awesome season climax of the original Sailormoon was Usagi returning with baby Hotaru in her arms.

One thing I hope Dan shows just for my pure, personal geeky interest is what it looks like when an Immortal actually pulls the trigger and resets (or has reset forced upon them).

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I'm still surprised she HAS any time left. But maybe it's BECAUSE she's actively resisting?

As Kazellin alluded to, there can be a delay of up to a minute before the reset occurs. I'm assuming that the count only started when she actually intervened. This comic reads to me like the events only took a few seconds, most of that in the last two panels. So she could still have almost a minute left. (My guess is she'll have at least most of one strip, maybe even close to two strips, depending on how the comic is paced and if she gets her full minute.)

42 minutes ago, Kazzellin said:

2) Is she going to try talking to Raven about stuff really fast, or would she instead do a Vulcan-esque information dump on him? Or just tell him to seek out Heka and get an explanation (in which case, we'd get to find out if Raven is allowed to leave the country via man-made apparatus (ie, fly), or if he can teleport)?

I wonder if Pandora can use her magic to write super fast, and/or divide her attention enough to write while keeping an eye on the battle? I'm imagining her writing a letter to him (not necessarily a long one, but saying more than she could in a minute) at some point between when she noticed the Aberrations and when she had to stop Scarf.

31 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

3) A better question is: "What does a "refresh" entail?"  What must Pandora give up in order to refresh?  Obviously the creeping insanity.  That's the whole point.  What is that insanity attached to?  I suspect the accumulated power and perception as well... 

The insanity is connected to her ability to predict things, which I believe comes from her vast knowledge and experience. This means she'll need to loose most of her memories. Of course, Immortals always keep some of their memories when they reset properly, and I think Pandora will be aiming to keep a bit more than most do (including many memories of Adrien, and enough knowledge of Tedd and Sarah to pick up where she left off with them).

Referring back to this strip again, Pandora seems to expect to have a different personality; apparently that's normal and she's willing to accept that so long as she remains "herself", though she doesn't exactly spell out what would be enough for her to consider it still herself.

She'll definitely want to keep her emotional attachments (she's said as much), but I wouldn't be surprised if the nature of those attachments changed somewhat. For instance, if she acknowledges that at least in some ways she's a new person, she might think of Adrian more like a brother or close uncle rather than her son.

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1 hour ago, Vorlonagent said:

1) I believe it is automatic and unconscious.

It's automatic, but considering both Pandora and Zeus had stated that when an Immortal breaks Immortal law, all other Immortals know what they did and why they did it. So I think it is conscious. And considering that it was something Immortals agreed upon long ago, I'm hoping that it's something that can be prevented, but as some people stated, that might have been part of Voltaire's agenda, to get the other Immortals to drop the guide and empower law so that he and others like him can be free to do what they want without the threat of getting reset. Though I also hope that maybe Pandora or other Immortals know that Voltaire set this up and there might be some poetic justice in store for him.

Again, I gotta wonder where Helena and Demetrius are right now, if they're not with Elliot, then they got to have been distracted by these vampires, but they haven't shown up or there haven't been any signs that they've found anyone to help fight them. Did Pandora find them after she talked to Tedd? Maybe explained the situation to them and got them to help root out Voltaire? Disco Wizard told Pandora about the Immortal that tricked Tara into trying to kill Elliot and how a pair of other Immortals helped talk Tara down, Pandora would know who the pair of Immortals would be and where they could be found so why wouldn't she seek them out? If she talked to them after talking to Tedd it would certainly make it more likely that she'd have resolved to be less threatening than when she found Zeus with her great(x however many generations)grand daughter. Maybe she used her power to restore Helena and Demetrius' memories (if that's possible).

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22 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

The insanity is connected to her ability to predict things, which I believe comes from her vast knowledge and experience. This means she'll need to loose most of her memories. Of course, Immortals always keep some of their memories when they reset properly, and I think Pandora will be aiming to keep a bit more than most do (including many memories of Adrien, and enough knowledge of Tedd and Sarah to pick up where she left off with them)

The way Jerry tells it, I thought it was one combined thing.  the more powerful an Immortal the more insight they had, the more intelligent they are, the more bored, the more insane.  That's why I think Pandora has to give up her unnatural clarity, insight, accumulated power, etc in order to refresh.  She might even remember her life, but would be a fledgling Immortal for most other purposes.
 

12 minutes ago, Scotty said:

It's automatic, but considering both Pandora and Zeus had stated that when an Immortal breaks Immortal law, all other Immortals know what they did and why they did it. So I think it is conscious. And considering that it was something Immortals agreed upon long ago, I'm hoping that it's something that can be prevented, but as some people stated, that might have been part of Voltaire's agenda, to get the other Immortals to drop the guide and empower law so that he and others like him can be free to do what they want without the threat of getting reset. Though I also hope that maybe Pandora or other Immortals know that Voltaire set this up and there might be some poetic justice in store for him.

I don't know if it is conscious in the sense of an Immortal approving of Pandora's actions can "opt out", but I could be wrong.

13 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Again, I gotta wonder where Helena and Demetrius are right now, if they're not with Elliot, then they got to have been distracted by these vampires, but they haven't shown up or there haven't been any signs that they've found anyone to help fight them. Did Pandora find them after she talked to Tedd? Maybe explained the situation to them and got them to help root out Voltaire? Disco Wizard told Pandora about the Immortal that tricked Tara into trying to kill Elliot and how a pair of other Immortals helped talk Tara down, Pandora would know who the pair of Immortals would be and where they could be found so why wouldn't she seek them out? If she talked to them after talking to Tedd it would certainly make it more likely that she'd have resolved to be less threatening than when she found Zeus with her great(x however many generations)grand daughter. Maybe she used her power to restore Helena and Demetrius' memories (if that's possible).

Pandora very likely couldn't find H&D unless they wanted to be found.  They have very likely mastered "how not to be seen" on their spirit plane.  Pandora would have to luck into them.

For that same reason they could be at the mall right now, waiting for their cue.

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36 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

If Pandora just killed all vampires on Earth, it would be an event more likely to trigger the reset of Magic, especially if some of the vampires are public figures. In fact, it might change magic for immortals. Note that Heka is an immortal being but not what used to be called a fairy, so this suggests that the immortals formerly known as fairies might be under restrictions similar to the ones that have governed human magic. Maybe Tedd's secret second purpose has something to do with a change in Immortal magic.

Well, maybe.

Can't be completely ruled out, but the existence of immortal law - the reason WHY it exists - suggest that magic is not CAPABLE of limiting immortals. It can limit how they can interact with humans, but that wouldn't prevent Pandora from killing vampires ... and might actually make fairies to change they law so they can continue to play their games.

25 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

I doubt Pandora has killed all vampires on earth, mostly for meta reasons.  Having Sirleck spontaneously combust while driving Elliot/Ellen's car would be anti-climax.

If it would be just vampires in mall, Sirleck didn't really dodged any bullet. Either it's whole city and Sirleck was just a bit out of range, or he "dodged" by not being included in Pandora's definition of "vampire" by mistake.

27 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

One thing I hope Dan shows just for my pure, personal geeky interest is what it looks like when an Immortal actually pulls the trigger and resets (or has reset forced upon them).

Unfortunately, Dan is limited to what can be drawn.

24 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I'm still surprised she HAS any time left. But maybe it's BECAUSE she's actively resisting?

As Kazellin alluded to, there can be a delay of up to a minute before the reset occurs. I'm assuming that the count only started when she actually intervened. This comic reads to me like the events only took a few seconds, most of that in the last two panels. So she could still have almost a minute left. (My guess is she'll have at least most of one strip, maybe even close to two strips, depending on how the comic is paced and if she gets her full minute.)

Oh. Forgot about this. Ok, she has minute. Not sure what takes so long but she likely knew what she speaks about.

26 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

I wonder if Pandora can use her magic to write super fast, and/or divide her attention enough to write while keeping an eye on the battle? I'm imagining her writing a letter to him (not necessarily a long one, but saying more than she could in a minute) at some point between when she noticed the Aberrations and when she had to stop Scarf.

She may be able to conjure the letter, yes ... or she just prepared it in advance. Writing letter counts as guiding, right?

31 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

The insanity is connected to her ability to predict things, which I believe comes from her vast knowledge and experience. This means she'll need to loose most of her memories.

I think that it's not JUST knowledge and experience, that it's about how much of that can she think about at once, or there is some magical aspect of it ...

32 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

Of course, Immortals always keep some of their memories when they reset properly

... or, maybe it comes form having the knowledge being really experienced, and "read" knowledge of previous incarnations doesn't work that way. In computer terms, it's not indexed in same way.

35 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

Referring back to this strip again, Pandora seems to expect to have a different personality

As Jerry said, her basic nature will remain ... so, like, maybe similar personality? Not exactly same but not too different either?

37 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

She'll definitely want to keep her emotional attachments (she's said as much), but I wouldn't be surprised if the nature of those attachments changed somewhat. For instance, if she acknowledges that at least in some ways she's a new person, she might think of Adrian more like a brother or close uncle rather than her son.

She will TRY. And noone tried before, probably. Hard to say how it will work OR if she would consider feeling Adrian as brother as success.

7 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Pandora very likely couldn't find H&D unless they wanted to be found.  They have very likely mastered "how not to be seen" on their spirit plane.  Pandora would have to luck into them.

Probably not exactly mastered but yes, I don't think they would be as easy to find as Zeus was.

7 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

For that same reason they could be at the mall right now, waiting for their cue.

In that case they missed it. But yes, they could be at the mall. I'm still thinking that they should be guiding someone there, but who?

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7 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

The way Jerry tells it, I thought it was one combined thing.  the more powerful an Immortal the more insight they had, the more intelligent they are, the more bored, the more insane.  That's why I think Pandora has to give up her unnatural clarity, insight, accumulated power, etc in order to refresh.  She might even remember her life, but would be a fledgling Immortal for most other purposes.

I still read that as their insight coming from their knowledge and experience... Though I suppose the "clairvoyance" may partially be a result of their power. Either way, I think they'd need to abandon most of their memories to get rid of enough of the insight to be safe from the boredom and instability.

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that Pandora will need to get rid of her power too. I thought that was just a requirement of resetting, but rereading that comic I now see it would probably also be necessary to get rid of the clairvoyance.

Reading that strip again raised a new question for me: Jerry said to reset properly he needed to gather all of his power. Do Magic Marks count as part of an immortal's power? Sure, Susan was still able to use her mark after Helen and Demetrius reset, but they didn't reset properly. If the marks do count, Pandora has the choice of taking the marks away from a lot of people (something many of them will not be happy about), or not resetting properly.

If Pandora does have to undo the magic marks, I hope Tedd is in his male form right now, or he'll have to use the TFG (or his watches or some other "wand") regularly if he wants to keep his public identity "male".

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20 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:
44 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

The way Jerry tells it, I thought it was one combined thing.  the more powerful an Immortal the more insight they had, the more intelligent they are, the more bored, the more insane.  That's why I think Pandora has to give up her unnatural clarity, insight, accumulated power, etc in order to refresh.  She might even remember her life, but would be a fledgling Immortal for most other purposes.

I still read that as their insight coming from their knowledge and experience... Though I suppose the "clairvoyance" may partially be a result of their power.

It may also be knowledge, experience and intelligence.

20 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

Reading that strip again raised a new question for me: Jerry said to reset properly he needed to gather all of his power. Do Magic Marks count as part of an immortal's power? Sure, Susan was still able to use her mark after Helen and Demetrius reset, but they didn't reset properly. If the marks do count, Pandora has the choice of taking the marks away from a lot of people (something many of them will not be happy about), or not resetting properly.

Very interesting question indeed. Both "do count" and "don't count" is possible.

20 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

If Pandora does have to undo the magic marks, I hope Tedd is in his male form right now, or he'll have to use the TFG (or his watches or some other "wand") regularly if he wants to keep his public identity "male".

... however, Tedd already knows how to make wand which will permanently change one's gender. Actually he already made it.

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