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hkmaly

Story, Monday January 8, 2018

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

... however, Tedd already knows how to make wand which will permanently change one's gender. Actually he already made it.

I had forgotten that was the spell Tedd put on his first "proper" wand. That's convenient... Almost a little too convenient. With an author with a more traditional storytelling style, I'd be almost sure that was a Chekhov's Gun.

Of course that wand probably won't be of much use when (if) Magic changes, so there's still a chance of Tedd accidentally winding up with his default form stuck at female for a while...

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1 hour ago, ChronosCat said:

I had forgotten that was the spell Tedd put on his first "proper" wand. That's convenient... Almost a little too convenient. With an author with a more traditional storytelling style, I'd be almost sure that was a Chekhov's Gun.

There is still possibility this wand will end up missing. Like, temporary. For as long as it will take to transform Sam.

1 hour ago, ChronosCat said:

Of course that wand probably won't be of much use when (if) Magic changes, so there's still a chance of Tedd accidentally winding up with his default form stuck at female for a while...

... but not because of Pandora resetting. Also, somehow I suspect it wouldn't take Tedd so much time to find how to remake this wand to work under new rules ... but hey, everything is relative. We have Ellen because Elliot didn't wanted to be stuck as girl for month. Doesn't look as that long time now, after Elliot spend half year sleeping as girl, does it?

So, my prediction is that Tedd will end up stuck as female exactly long enough to address how he hates it and do one or two things he should've think over better.

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6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

So, my prediction is that Tedd will end up stuck as female exactly long enough to address how he hates it and do one or two things he should've think over better.

Tedd's a seer and won't be affected by any system change, so while he did worry about the possibility of being stuck as either male or female when he first found out about the magic change, he later learned from Pandora that it won't be the case with him because he's learned the spell, and can easily make a wand to change. It would literally be seconds between finding out his mark is gone (if the system change erases them) and thinking he needs to find something that would work in making a wand.

The wand that Tedd's already made would likely have the spells erased from it, or otherwise made unusable in a system change but Tedd probably could re-enchant it again.

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23 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Tedd's a seer and won't be affected by any system change, so while he did worry about the possibility of being stuck as either male or female when he first found out about the magic change, he later learned from Pandora that it won't be the case with him because he's learned the spell, and can easily make a wand to change. It would literally be seconds between finding out his mark is gone (if the system change erases them) and thinking he needs to find something that would work in making a wand.

The wand that Tedd's already made would likely have the spells erased from it, or otherwise made unusable in a system change but Tedd probably could re-enchant it again.

In light of Tedd's ability to make a wand based on his mark, Tedd shouldn't have any difficulty changing sexes even if he looses his mark; you're right that even if he looses that wand he can just make another.

However, I think it would be a different matter if magic changed. Pandora said Tedd would retain his ability to see how magic spells worked and share spells with others (and he would also retain other abilities). However I believe spells and abilities are different in this context, and I didn't see anything about him retaining the use of the spells he's learned after a change.

I'm fairly certain that when magic changes, all old spells will become ineffective, so a new wand enchanted with an old spell would be just as ineffective as an old wand. Tedd might be able to reproduce the effects of spells from the old system in the new system with enough work, but first he'd need to figure out how the new system worked and modify the old spells to fit with the new system. (Much like how programs usually need to be modified if you want to use them on a different operating system than they were designed for.)

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12 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

Reading that strip again raised a new question for me: Jerry said to reset properly he needed to gather all of his power. Do Magic Marks count as part of an immortal's power? Sure, Susan was still able to use her mark after Helen and Demetrius reset, but they didn't reset properly. If the marks do count, Pandora has the choice of taking the marks away from a lot of people (something many of them will not be happy about), or not resetting properly.

Pretty sure a forced reset will count as not resetting properly. Jerry mentioned that it's a fairly drawn-out process and takes awhile to reset properly in the first place. So, no - Pandora is heading right towards improper reset, and all the issues it holds. :( 

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13 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

Reading that strip again raised a new question for me: Jerry said to reset properly he needed to gather all of his power. Do Magic Marks count as part of an immortal's power? Sure, Susan was still able to use her mark after Helen and Demetrius reset, but they didn't reset properly. If the marks do count, Pandora has the choice of taking the marks away from a lot of people (something many of them will not be happy about), or not resetting properly.

Jerry was going to offer Sarah a magic mark, so I would say that the magic marks don't count as part of the Immortal's power as Jerry wouldn't want to mess up his reset(His next life wouldn't be a very useful ally to Susan if he messed it up). Though an Immortal might run into trouble if they try to give a mark in the same moment their reset finally triggers, as I imagine it take some of their power to bestow the mark, even if the mark itself isn't part of their power.

Besides, as Kazzellin points out, Immortals gather their power when doing a proper reset, which a forced reset is not.

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15 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Is Adrian capable of RECEIVING such dump? Maybe she will do the dump to Zeus instead ... oh wait she does. EVERY immortal gets info dump from her, which may include Susan and Diane being Adrian's descendants because it IS sort of relevant.

Meanwhile, regarding Heka, not sure if Adrian would be ABLE to contact him (or if he knows who that is or where he is).

Depends on the data dump; if it's just information relative to what she's found out in the last few days, then probably. Especially if she keeps it relative to what he would be told anyway. Ideally, she would include what happened with Magus, so he's forwarned about that, but somehow I don't see that happening. Regardless, he doesn't need to know her whole life; that would be redundant. So, he would need to know what she knows about Magus/Elliot/Ellen, and her involvement/interaction with Tedd, Sarah, and Susan/Diane.

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10 hours ago, hkmaly said:

There is still possibility this wand will end up missing. Like, temporary. For as long as it will take to transform Sam.

... but not because of Pandora resetting. Also, somehow I suspect it wouldn't take Tedd so much time to find how to remake this wand to work under new rules ... but hey, everything is relative. We have Ellen because Elliot didn't wanted to be stuck as girl for month. Doesn't look as that long time now, after Elliot spend half year sleeping as girl, does it?

So, my prediction is that Tedd will end up stuck as female exactly long enough to address how he hates it and do one or two things he should've think over better.

There's an important factor that Elliot, when he was "Ellen", had connections to put together a (rather thin) cover-up of the temporary change.

Then when Ellen became a separate person, those same connections established a historical record for her. But they did not have to also cover up the disappearance of male Elliot.

Sam, at present, does not have such connections, as he hasn't been brought inside the veil of secrecy surrounding MIB. And if Sarah borrows the wand to change him, there will still be people who remember him as female. Graduation from high school, or transfer from one school to another, is a good time to change one's public presentation of sex, but it's recommended that one travel a good distance in a direction one's compatriots are NOT traveling (or at least not that far).

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1 hour ago, Drasvin said:

Jerry was going to offer Sarah a magic mark, so I would say that the magic marks don't count as part of the Immortal's power as Jerry wouldn't want to mess up his reset(His next life wouldn't be a very useful ally to Susan if he messed it up). Though an Immortal might run into trouble if they try to give a mark in the same moment their reset finally triggers, as I imagine it take some of their power to bestow the mark, even if the mark itself isn't part of their power.

Besides, as Kazzellin points out, Immortals gather their power when doing a proper reset, which a forced reset is not.

Thanks. That's one question answered.

As for how proper a reset this will be, I imagine part of the problem for most immortals would be they weren't prepared. Pandora has been thinking about Resetting anyway, so she might have already done most of the preparations. (I'm assuming it was never said that a forced reset is automatically an improper one; if I'm forgetting something, someone please direct me to the relevant info.)

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16 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

I still read that as their insight coming from their knowledge and experience... Though I suppose the "clairvoyance" may partially be a result of their power. Either way, I think they'd need to abandon most of their memories to get rid of enough of the insight to be safe from the boredom and instability.

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that Pandora will need to get rid of her power too. I thought that was just a requirement of resetting, but rereading that comic I now see it would probably also be necessary to get rid of the clairvoyance.

Reading that strip again raised a new question for me: Jerry said to reset properly he needed to gather all of his power. Do Magic Marks count as part of an immortal's power? Sure, Susan was still able to use her mark after Helen and Demetrius reset, but they didn't reset properly. If the marks do count, Pandora has the choice of taking the marks away from a lot of people (something many of them will not be happy about), or not resetting properly.

If Pandora does have to undo the magic marks, I hope Tedd is in his male form right now, or he'll have to use the TFG (or his watches or some other "wand") regularly if he wants to keep his public identity "male".

I wouldn't be surprised if huge amounts of pandora's life became hazy for a "refreshed" version.  Only the important stuff would remain distinct like Blaike and Adrian.

I have never heard of an Immortal undoing a magic mark.  True, nothing is known to be impossible for magic besides time travel, but I have never heard of it any comic or Dan commentary I can remember.  I know Tedd is concerned that a Magic reset would destroy his mark (or maybe just his ability to use it) but that ought to be independent of a Pandora reset/refresh.

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16 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Very interesting question indeed. Both "do count" and "don't count" is possible.

I prefer to think Marks are exercises of power but are part of the people who are marked.

While we don't know about a proper reset, we know that Susan's Mark was not affected the French Immortals' improper reset.  Certainly that says a mark is not like an artifact,.  Jerry said the Hammer Artifact wouldn't work anymore and his new self wouldn't have the energy to power it.  No Jerry, no hammers.  But we also already know that Marks are powered by the wearer, not the Immortal that made them.

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6 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

However, I think it would be a different matter if magic changed. Pandora said Tedd would retain his ability to see how magic spells worked and share spells with others (and he would also retain other abilities). However I believe spells and abilities are different in this context, and I didn't see anything about him retaining the use of the spells he's learned after a change.

I think Tedd does retain the knowledge of spells after a system changes, my understanding based on what Disco Wizard told Grace and Pandora, the only thing that changes is how humans learned and use magic, but the spells themselves wouldn't change. If Tedd (and Seers in general) lost all the knowledge he's gained from watching spells in action, how could he be expected to teach others? If seers had to wait until someone accidentally used a spell in the new system, it kinda makes the first purpose of a Seer obsolete because you already have people using magic without being told how.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

I think Tedd does retain the knowledge of spells after a system changes, my understanding based on what Disco Wizard told Grace and Pandora, the only thing that changes is how humans learned and use magic, but the spells themselves wouldn't change. If Tedd (and Seers in general) lost all the knowledge he's gained from watching spells in action, how could he be expected to teach others? If seers had to wait until someone accidentally used a spell in the new system, it kinda makes the first purpose of a Seer obsolete because you already have people using magic without being told how.

Well, if Pandora's previous-self's memories of the last magic change reflect what's to come, all full-blooded Humans will loose access to their spells. This suggests that either the old spells don't work any more and new spells need to be learned, or that the means of accessing those spells is changed. Disco Wizard says that seers wouldn't be affected "because they don't get spells in the first--[place]" but that doesn't necessarily mean that Tedd would be able to put an old spell into a wand and have it work without any modification.

I also don't think that needing to see someone accidentally use a spell before they could create new wands or teach others the new magic system would completely make the Seers pointless; just because one person used magic accidentally wouldn't mean that person would know how they did it or how to cast other spells. The Seer, being able to see under the hood, would be able to figure out how the magic system worked much faster than the ordinary user, and could teach others how to get new spells or unlock the new versions of old spells.

Still, it does sound like there's more to being a Seer than that. From what Heka and Pandora said, it sounds like just by experiencing the magic change they'll automatically have some idea of how the new system works (which means Tedd could start helping his friends relearn magic without anyone needing to cast any magic first). And while there's no in-story evidence to suggest it that I can see, based on Dan's interests and his tendency to be nice to the main characters unless the plot demands otherwise I expect that Tedd will eventually be able to figure out how to translate those old spells he knows the workings of into spells that work in the new system; the only question is how long it will take him.

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16 hours ago, hkmaly said:

So, my prediction is that Tedd will end up stuck as female exactly long enough to address how he hates it and do one or two things he should've think over better.

8 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

However, I think it would be a different matter if magic changed. Pandora said Tedd would retain his ability to see how magic spells worked and share spells with others (and he would also retain other abilities). However I believe spells and abilities are different in this context, and I didn't see anything about him retaining the use of the spells he's learned after a change.

I'm fairly certain that when magic changes, all old spells will become ineffective, so a new wand enchanted with an old spell would be just as ineffective as an old wand. Tedd might be able to reproduce the effects of spells from the old system in the new system with enough work, but first he'd need to figure out how the new system worked and modify the old spells to fit with the new system. (Much like how programs usually need to be modified if you want to use them on a different operating system than they were designed for.)

Exactly. He certainly WILL figure it out - that's what being seer MEAN - but it will take him some time.

1 hour ago, ChronosCat said:

Still, it does sound like there's more to being a Seer than that. From what Heka and Pandora said, it sounds like just by experiencing the magic change they'll automatically have some idea of how the new system works (which means Tedd could start helping his friends relearn magic without anyone needing to cast any magic first). And while there's no in-story evidence to suggest it that I can see, based on Dan's interests and his tendency to be nice to the main characters unless the plot demands otherwise I expect that Tedd will eventually be able to figure out how to translate those old spells he knows the workings of into spells that work in the new system; the only question is how long it will take him.

Yes ... he will probably find out how to translate at least the spells which current main eight really likes and are popular between readers. I don't think we need to worry about fairies. Also, he spend quite lot of time designing Ellen's spells - either that is going to be used quite a lot before reset, or Tedd will translate it to after-reset version.

It is possible that seers can combine ANY new magic they saw with what they knew before reset to translate spells, but the way they are described sounds more like they will get some information instantly.

5 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

Sam, at present, does not have such connections, as he hasn't been brought inside the veil of secrecy surrounding MIB. And if Sarah borrows the wand to change him, there will still be people who remember him as female. Graduation from high school, or transfer from one school to another, is a good time to change one's public presentation of sex, but it's recommended that one travel a good distance in a direction one's compatriots are NOT traveling (or at least not that far).

That's for Sam to decide. In some ways, he already IS male pretending to be female and maybe he would prefer to change and cover the change temporary ...

Alternatively, just because it's bad idea doesn't mean Sarah wouldn't try it.

5 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

As for how proper a reset this will be, I imagine part of the problem for most immortals would be they weren't prepared. Pandora has been thinking about Resetting anyway, so she might have already done most of the preparations. (I'm assuming it was never said that a forced reset is automatically an improper one; if I'm forgetting something, someone please direct me to the relevant info.)

Technically, yes. However, Jerry said that the proper reset is process which can't be stopped ; if she WOULD be doing preparations, it would mean she would need to reset even WITHOUT being force-reset, AND she would need to time it well.

3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

While we don't know about a proper reset, we know that Susan's Mark was not affected the French Immortals' improper reset.  Certainly that says a mark is not like an artifact,.  Jerry said the Hammer Artifact wouldn't work anymore and his new self wouldn't have the energy to power it.  No Jerry, no hammers.  But we also already know that Marks are powered by the wearer, not the Immortal that made them.

That is definitely valid argument for not needing to remove marks: the marks, being powered by wearer, shouldn't need any power which the immortals need to get in order to reset properly. Unfortunately, not enough for proof. However,

6 hours ago, Drasvin said:

Jerry was going to offer Sarah a magic mark, so I would say that the magic marks don't count as part of the Immortal's power as Jerry wouldn't want to mess up his reset

... the fact Jerry was willing to offer Sarah a magic mark would be ; he seem he wouldn't offer it if it would mess his reset.

 

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:
8 hours ago, Drasvin said:

Jerry was going to offer Sarah a magic mark, so I would say that the magic marks don't count as part of the Immortal's power as Jerry wouldn't want to mess up his reset

... the fact Jerry was willing to offer Sarah a magic mark would be ; he seem he wouldn't offer it if it would mess his reset.

There's also the fact that using the serenity spell to calm Susan didn't mess with the reset either.

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16 minutes ago, Scotty said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:
9 hours ago, Drasvin said:

Jerry was going to offer Sarah a magic mark, so I would say that the magic marks don't count as part of the Immortal's power as Jerry wouldn't want to mess up his reset

... the fact Jerry was willing to offer Sarah a magic mark would be ; he seem he wouldn't offer it if it would mess his reset.

There's also the fact that using the serenity spell to calm Susan didn't mess with the reset either.

... that IMHO wouldn't be so interesting but it reminds me that Jerry even gave Susan spellbook. Which she still has.

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

... that IMHO wouldn't be so interesting but it reminds me that Jerry even gave Susan spellbook. Which she still has.

Yeah, the spellbook would be a persistent item, and the serenity spell had a duration to it. The wards on the cave and the enchantment on the hammer artifact itself would probably have a duration as well but Jerry would have linked those to him so that they could be powered indefinitely (or until he needed to reset as was the case).

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27 minutes ago, Scotty said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... that IMHO wouldn't be so interesting but it reminds me that Jerry even gave Susan spellbook. Which she still has.

Yeah, the spellbook would be a persistent item, and the serenity spell had a duration to it. The wards on the cave and the enchantment on the hammer artifact itself would probably have a duration as well but Jerry would have linked those to him so that they could be powered indefinitely (or until he needed to reset as was the case).

... the serenity spell has so short duration it was over before they left the cave, THATs why it's not interesting.

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 I suspect that the spell book may not have been a persistent creation or summons.  I think Jerry used magic to bring an actual spell book to the cave from somewhere else.

Could Jerry have one, or several, blank spell books available in the cave for his regenerated self to use upon awakening?  Possible.

Is it possible that Jerry obtained that book from another source?  Did he give Susan a stolen book?

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38 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Could Jerry have one, or several, blank spell books available in the cave for his regenerated self to use upon awakening?  Possible.

Is it possible that Jerry obtained that book from another source?  Did he give Susan a stolen book?

Pandora produced a wand for Tedd to enchant, did she have a similar source? I don't think she intended on teaching Tedd how to make wands when she went to him, it seemed like something she decided to do after Tedd showed he understood what she was going through. And then there's the spellbook she gave Rhoda, she was completely taken by surprise that Rhoda had become such a talented magic user. It shouldn't be too difficult for an Immortal to create a persistent item like a spellbook or wand, it would fall under the same category as Nanase's Fairy dolls.

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My guess:

1) "Make an object" is something that fairies can do pretty freely, and the object is persistent on its own because of how much energy the fairy puts into its making. Awakened humans aren't normally powerful enough to make persistent objects, which is why Andrea was so impressed by Nanase's fairydoll.

2) "Make a magic object" requires an ongoing power source for the magic - the object itself may be persistent, but its magic is dependent on the power source. (Jerry gave Susan the depowered artifact.)

3) When a fairy makes a spellbook for a specific person, the fairy makes the recipient also be the power source - probably the same thing happens, somehow, when a previously-existing but unassigned spellbook is given to a specific person.

3a) Seers can also make spellbooks, and this ability is recognized but DGB may or may not know about their other abilities (I would assume that for a seer to make a spellbook for a specific person they'd have to have some direct contact or observation of that person - but this may not be correct). Some prior seer may or may not have written down the spells so that non-seer wizards can learn to make spellbooks; this is what happened with wands. Tedd hasn't yet watched himself make a wand though, or at least he hasn't on-screen.

4) "Magic" marks aren't actually magic in themselves, but simply an enabling device making it easier for the marked person to use their own magic in a particular way - there has to be some magic energy in the person for the mark to enable anything at all, and of course we know that marks are not strictly necessary (Elliot, Ellen, Nanase, and Greg were never marked; Justin did illusions before being marked). Alternatively, the magic mark is powered by the marked person and creates the ability to cast a certain spell, but then any magic user should benefit from being marked - including a wizard who already has three or four different marks.

 

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54 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

3) When a fairy makes a spellbook for a specific person, the fairy makes the recipient also be the power source - probably the same thing happens, somehow, when a previously-existing but unassigned spellbook is given to a specific person.

The book itself is nothing special until it is linked to a magic user who's awakened, so yeah it would make sense that it's the connection between the magic user and the book that makes it work.

54 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

3a) Seers can also make spellbooks, and this ability is recognized but DGB may or may not know about their other abilities (I would assume that for a seer to make a spellbook for a specific person they'd have to have some direct contact or observation of that person - but this may not be correct). Some prior seer may or may not have written down the spells so that non-seer wizards can learn to make spellbooks; this is what happened with wands. Tedd hasn't yet watched himself make a wand though, or at least he hasn't on-screen.

Not entirely sure about this, I mean it's certainly possible that a Seer can see someone linking a spellbook and then duplicate that in a wand, but I'm not sure that Seers automagically have that ability.

As for Tedd making persistent objects...He has seen Nanase make Fairy dolls, and it's canon that he's actually "looked" at her doing so. So, it's quite possible he can make a wand that makes persistent objects? If he's seen his dad linking a spellbook to someone, Tedd very well could make a wand that creates and links spellbooks, he'd just need to get something wand worthy first. At the very least, Seers probably have the ability to craft wands by sensing what materials would work best for one, but beyond that, they would probably need to handcarve their first wand before they can magically create them.

54 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

4) "Magic" marks aren't actually magic in themselves, but simply an enabling device making it easier for the marked person to use their own magic in a particular way - there has to be some magic energy in the person for the mark to enable anything at all, and of course we know that marks are not strictly necessary (Elliot, Ellen, Nanase, and Greg were never marked; Justin did illusions before being marked). Alternatively, the magic mark is powered by the marked person and creates the ability to cast a certain spell, but then any magic user should benefit from being marked - including a wizard who already has three or four different marks.

We know magic marks aren't tied to the Immortal that gave the mark because Susan's mark persisted long after Helena and Demetrius were reset. We also know that the marks disappear when the person that was marked awakens, so it seems logical that once awakened, the person can't be marked again, the marks are for the dreaming phase of sleeping/dreaming/awakened system. In Tedd's case, he probably wouldn't go through the same sleeping/dreaming/awaken setup as others would, the things he can do right now (make wands, disenchant himself, "see" magic) makes it seem like he's the equivalent of awakened, but that might be just a Seers version of dreaming and their awakening may have more to do with their second purpose, which would make sense considering Voltaire is trying to traumatize Tedd, Susan had an angst induced awakening, what would an angst induced awakening mean for Tedd? Lord Tedd still seems like the obvious outcome here, but there might be more to it still.

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6 hours ago, Scotty said:
7 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

3a) Seers can also make spellbooks, and this ability is recognized but DGB may or may not know about their other abilities (I would assume that for a seer to make a spellbook for a specific person they'd have to have some direct contact or observation of that person - but this may not be correct). Some prior seer may or may not have written down the spells so that non-seer wizards can learn to make spellbooks; this is what happened with wands. Tedd hasn't yet watched himself make a wand though, or at least he hasn't on-screen.

Not entirely sure about this, I mean it's certainly possible that a Seer can see someone linking a spellbook and then duplicate that in a wand, but I'm not sure that Seers automagically have that ability.

I think ability to make spellbooks is not connected to seers in any way. Of course, seers, as wizards, can learn to make and connect them.

Note that we are not sure how hard the connecting is - so far, we saw Edward Verres (who is wizard), Jerry and Pandora doing it, but it's possible the spellbook can be prepared in way to autolink first awakened person without spellbook who touches it. Edward definitely brought pre-prepared books from someone who never saw Elliot or Ellen.

Also, Tedd WAS watching himself when making a wand, but maybe you meant spellbook?

6 hours ago, Scotty said:
7 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

4) "Magic" marks aren't actually magic in themselves, but simply an enabling device making it easier for the marked person to use their own magic in a particular way - there has to be some magic energy in the person for the mark to enable anything at all, and of course we know that marks are not strictly necessary (Elliot, Ellen, Nanase, and Greg were never marked; Justin did illusions before being marked). Alternatively, the magic mark is powered by the marked person and creates the ability to cast a certain spell, but then any magic user should benefit from being marked - including a wizard who already has three or four different marks.

We know magic marks aren't tied to the Immortal that gave the mark because Susan's mark persisted long after Helena and Demetrius were reset. We also know that the marks disappear when the person that was marked awakens, so it seems logical that once awakened, the person can't be marked again, the marks are for the dreaming phase of sleeping/dreaming/awakened system. In Tedd's case, he probably wouldn't go through the same sleeping/dreaming/awaken setup as others would, the things he can do right now (make wands, disenchant himself, "see" magic) makes it seem like he's the equivalent of awakened, but that might be just a Seers version of dreaming and their awakening may have more to do with their second purpose, which would make sense considering Voltaire is trying to traumatize Tedd, Susan had an angst induced awakening, what would an angst induced awakening mean for Tedd? Lord Tedd still seems like the obvious outcome here, but there might be more to it still.

I would agree that person can't be marked twice or marked after being awakened.

However, that is standard awakening. Awakening as seer may be independent, because seers don't get any own spells so they can be marked as sort of hole in rules. Tedd might been awakened when he looked at himself while using his look, or maybe sometimes before, or is not awakened yet, we don't know. Maybe seers don't have any awakening.

The second purpose is something completely different as it ONLY activates on magic reset.

 

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20 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Edward definitely brought pre-prepared books from someone who never saw Elliot or Ellen.

Creating spellbooks was covered in the last Q&A and states that Elliot's and Ellen's books were made by Edward. It doesn't specifically say if the book itself is created or just the process of turning a plain book into a spellbook, but considering even blank books are disguised might imply the whole book gets created and then linked. I guess one could premake blank books to have on hand, but Edward might prefer to just make them as needed, I'm certain he'd know how to do both himself.

27 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Also, Tedd WAS watching himself when making a wand, but maybe you meant spellbook?

He watched himself enchant a wand that Pandora created, he likely didn't get a good "look" at her doing so though I'm uncertain if he'd "see" anything that an Immortal does.

My speculation was that Tedd might be able to piece together a way to create a wand that creates blank books using what he learned from Nanase's Fairy Doll spell and then apply the linking enchantments that he might have learned from Edward if he ever saw that process separately. And the part about having to handcraft a wand would be because even if Tedd has seen the spell to create persistent objects, if he doesn't have a wand available to put it on, he'd have to craft one the old fashioned way, and maybe Seers have a sense that tells them what would make great wand material?

44 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

The second purpose is something completely different as it ONLY activates on magic reset.

Did it actually say it was activated on magic reset? I only saw that being "of sound mind, intelligent and morally good" something we'd want Tedd to be in order to fulfill the second purpose and that Voltaire is trying to manipulate into something much less favourable. I figured that the purposes are independent on whether magic resets or not and that it's mainly a Seers immunity to system changes that makes the purposes valuable.

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49 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Edward definitely brought pre-prepared books from someone who never saw Elliot or Ellen.

Creating spellbooks was covered in the last Q&A and states that Elliot's and Ellen's books were made by Edward. It doesn't specifically say if the book itself is created or just the process of turning a plain book into a spellbook, but considering even blank books are disguised might imply the whole book gets created and then linked. I guess one could premake blank books to have on hand, but Edward might prefer to just make them as needed, I'm certain he'd know how to do both himself.

Well it's true the last Q&A said Edward made them but before he said he will order them. Why would he lie?

49 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Also, Tedd WAS watching himself when making a wand, but maybe you meant spellbook?

He watched himself enchant a wand that Pandora created, he likely didn't get a good "look" at her doing so though I'm uncertain if he'd "see" anything that an Immortal does.

The "wand" Pandora created was just a stick, Pandora said it herself. Only when Tedd enchanted it it actually became wand. He might get similar result with enchanting normal store-bought stirring spoon. Remember that the plastic toy watches almost worked.

49 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

The second purpose is something completely different as it ONLY activates on magic reset.

Did it actually say it was activated on magic reset? I only saw that being "of sound mind, intelligent and morally good" something we'd want Tedd to be in order to fulfill the second purpose and that Voltaire is trying to manipulate into something much less favourable. I figured that the purposes are independent on whether magic resets or not and that it's mainly a Seers immunity to system changes that makes the purposes valuable.

Hmmmm ... not really. You're right, it's just speculation. The FIRST purpose is linked to magic reset of course, as that's what Pandora WAS explained and later explained to Tedd.

(Also, yes, the first purpose is not "activated", it's ability he have all the time and it's only more important when reset happens.)

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