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hkmaly

Story, Friday January 19, 2018

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44 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:
52 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Wait. Speaking about Susan's relatives ... Cousins from which side?

From her mom's side. The other woman was over when her mom was out of town visiting her sister (Susan's aunt). Very unlikely Susan would have anything to do with her dad's family.

Just because they are his family doesn't mean they were on his side in divorce.

... ok, it's more likely those are related to this sister.

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8 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Romanov.  Susan is a direct matrilineal descendant of Grand Duchess Anastasia Nikolaevna.

Only if Anastasia wasn't bayoneted to death in the Moperverse.

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Just because they are his family doesn't mean they were on his side in divorce.

... ok, it's more likely those are related to this sister.

And as proof, look at Mamase's opinion on her own sister.

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1 hour ago, partner555 said:

And as proof, look at Mamase's opinion on her own sister.

"Mamase" is a surname, not a personal name. "Manase" is a confirmed personal name for women. If you want to refer to Nanase's mom in Japanese, say Nanase-haha. Her father is Nanase-chichi.

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15 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I did similar one but let's repeat it: Pandora is at least 499 based on the fact she's using 299 as her age for centuries. She had Raven in 156, so Raven is at least 343. Assuming everyone had child in 20 (it would probably be less for first child) thats 17 generations, with everyone having two children that's 131072 descendants in current generation. Yeah I think that we can assume more than thousand. Note that IF their resistance to disease will be bigger (and their fertility normal), the number will likely be considerably bigger ...

Considering the fertility problems Elves appear to have, it's likely that fertility among the descendents of elves would be lower than average, at least for a few generations (if they're interbreeding only with "normal" humans; interbreeding with other recent descendents of Elves wouldn't help).

Also, after a few generations it wouldn't be considered incest for members of distant branches of the Raven family to marry, and after many generations they might not even know they shared a common ancestor. If they still lived in the same area there would be a very good chance of them marrying one another, which would mean the count of descendants would be smaller than in your calculations (as one child would count as a child of both descendants of Raven).

...On the other hand, until just a few generations ago, there would be a good chance the parents would have more than two children if they're able to.

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10 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

Considering the fertility problems Elves appear to have, it's likely that fertility among the descendents of elves would be lower than average, at least for a few generations (if they're interbreeding only with "normal" humans; interbreeding with other recent descendents of Elves wouldn't help).

10 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

...On the other hand, until just a few generations ago, there would be a good chance the parents would have more than two children if they're able to.

The fertility is unlikely to be low enough to be problem if you are trying. They might have less children than others, but they are very unlikely to stop before two.

Until a few generations ago, lot of women basically had as many children as they were physically able to. Which was not that many, as child birth was dangerous for both mother and child. Lower fertility just means she spend more time doing that.

10 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

Also, after a few generations it wouldn't be considered incest for members of distant branches of the Raven family to marry, and after many generations they might not even know they shared a common ancestor. If they still lived in the same area there would be a very good chance of them marrying one another, which would mean the count of descendants would be smaller than in your calculations (as one child would count as a child of both descendants of Raven).

Yes, after some number of generations they will basically "fill up" the area. However, I don't think this happens before they reach few thousands. Of course, the 131072 might not be reached. And probably they DID travelled at least once - I think Raven was born in Europe based on what we saw.

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In biology there's a distinction of r-selective versus K-selective in reproduction.  Species which are r-selective will have a very large number of offspring, but each individual child has a fairly low chance of survival.  K-selective species have a fairly low number of offspring, but they put a lot of effort into each one, so that a much higher percentage of them survive.  Pandora was definitely acting K-selective, having only one child but putting centuries of effort into training him and watching over him (although the watching over may have become intermittent as her stability declined).  I suspect that if Adrian had known about his children he would have been the same.

I first learned about this many years ago, not from a biology class, but from a filk song, "Daddy's Acting r-selective, Momma's Acting K".  :-)

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3 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

In biology there's a distinction of r-selective versus K-selective in reproduction.  Species which are r-selective will have a very large number of offspring, but each individual child has a fairly low chance of survival.  K-selective species have a fairly low number of offspring, but they put a lot of effort into each one, so that a much higher percentage of them survive.  Pandora was definitely acting K-selective, having only one child but putting centuries of effort into training him and watching over him (although the watching over may have become intermittent as her stability declined).  I suspect that if Adrian had known about his children he would have been the same.

I first learned about this many years ago, not from a biology class, but from a filk song, "Daddy's Acting r-selective, Momma's Acting K".  :-)

Well, I learned about it from SMBC, though with a BS in Math, I suppose it could be expected that I might not know about that, but dang it, I still feel like I should have learned about it, Science Geek rep to protect.

So perhaps Adrian's descendants, for a while at least, had low fertility but a tendency to watch over their offspring (perhaps an inherited inclination), so less likely for the family to have died out due to disease, poverty, etc.  They might also have had a slightly longer lifespan on average for a couple of generations, Immortal genetics and all.  So, do we consider Adrian's relatively low amount of romantic encounters due to his perception of being unable to father children, or is this also a potentially inheritable inclination.  Given a slightly longer lifespan, how late would Adrian's descendants keep trying for children?  We need numbers if we are going to  properly estimate how many generations between Adrian and Susan and how many potential descendants exist.

Of course, with the potential number of generations between Susan and Adrian, and the way Susan and Diane resemble each other, resemble Adrian, and Susan's father looks like Adrian, I have to say "What?!"  How much was Magic messing with things? Did a descendant of Adrian resembling him prompt Magic to shape events (similar appearance and birthday's and making sure Diane and Susan had the same inherited affinity)?  Was Adrian's romantic encounter manipulated by Magic.  I am hoping it was a huge set of coincidences that only lead to Susan and Diane resembling each other, cause otherwise, Magic is starting to sound just a bit... creepy.  ;) 

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8 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

I first learned about this many years ago, not from a biology class, but from a filk song, "Daddy's Acting r-selective, Momma's Acting K".  :-)

While mammals can never top fishes in how r-selective they are, there are definitely differences between them, with strong correlations to gender and culture.

4 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:

So perhaps Adrian's descendants, for a while at least, had low fertility but a tendency to watch over their offspring (perhaps an inherited inclination)

If you are unable to get more offspring, watching the ones you have more carefully doesn't require any specific inclination.

4 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:

Of course, with the potential number of generations between Susan and Adrian, and the way Susan and Diane resemble each other, resemble Adrian, and Susan's father looks like Adrian, I have to say "What?!"  How much was Magic messing with things? Did a descendant of Adrian resembling him prompt Magic to shape events (similar appearance and birthday's and making sure Diane and Susan had the same inherited affinity)?  Was Adrian's romantic encounter manipulated by Magic.  I am hoping it was a huge set of coincidences that only lead to Susan and Diane resembling each other, cause otherwise, Magic is starting to sound just a bit... creepy.

Likely nearly all Adrian descendants have the same inherited affinity.

However, regarding the rest ... the coincidence of Diane and Susan being born 20 minutes apart alone sounds pretty creepy, no matter if it was Adrian's relationship or Mrs. Pompoms one which was influenced (or both). However, forces like magic, fate etc do that often.

 

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10 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:

Of course, with the potential number of generations between Susan and Adrian, and the way Susan and Diane resemble each other, resemble Adrian, and Susan's father looks like Adrian, I have to say "What?!"  How much was Magic messing with things? Did a descendant of Adrian resembling him prompt Magic to shape events (similar appearance and birthday's and making sure Diane and Susan had the same inherited affinity)?  Was Adrian's romantic encounter manipulated by Magic.  I am hoping it was a huge set of coincidences that only lead to Susan and Diane resembling each other, cause otherwise, Magic is starting to sound just a bit... creepy. 

I'm pretty sure the only influence Magic had was Susan's and Diane's appearances, and everything else is a happy coincidence for magic.

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Hmm...Adrian has only had a very small number of encounters which could have resulted in offspring, even though he's centuries old.  Susan is quite disinclined towards physical encounters, although she does find men attractive.  Diane has had a lot of boyfriends, but mostly manipulated them to get them to buy her things, with little or no emotional attachment and potentially either stringing them along without much physical component, or using that component as another tool for manipulation, not "meaning anything."

Perhaps a low sex drive, a dislike of physical contact, and/or a tendency to be exceptionally slow to commit emotionally is something that runs in the family?

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17 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

Perhaps a low sex drive, a dislike of physical contact, and/or a tendency to be exceptionally slow to commit emotionally is something that runs in the family?

What about Susan's dad? They only part of that that applies to him is the not being committed part.

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3 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Hmm...Adrian has only had a very small number of encounters which could have resulted in offspring, even though he's centuries old.

Not necessarily true. Another explanation is that in those other cases, he would NOTICE if there was offspring.

2 hours ago, partner555 said:

What about Susan's dad? They only part of that that applies to him is the not being committed part.

Yeah ... Susan's dad behaviour doesn't look like Susan's low sex drive is genetic.

3 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Diane has had a lot of boyfriends, but mostly manipulated them to get them to buy her things, with little or no emotional attachment and potentially either stringing them along without much physical component, or using that component as another tool for manipulation, not "meaning anything."

... a tendency to be exceptionally slow to commit emotionally ...

Diane is 18. Not being able to commit emotionally in 18 is not so exceptionally slow.

And together? If this would be caused by Raven's genes, I would expect DIANE would be the one affected stronger.

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4 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Perhaps a low sex drive, a dislike of physical contact, and/or a tendency to be exceptionally slow to commit emotionally is something that runs in the family?

 

4 hours ago, partner555 said:

What about Susan's dad? They only part of that that applies to him is the not being committed part.

That would fit in the slow to commit emotionally version, similar to Diane but with societal pressures for men to be "real men" factored in.

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6 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

That would fit in the slow to commit emotionally version, similar to Diane but with societal pressures for men to be "real men" factored in.

There is no societal pressure to be cheaters,mths exact opposite actually.

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25 minutes ago, partner555 said:
6 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

That would fit in the slow to commit emotionally version, similar to Diane but with societal pressures for men to be "real men" factored in.

There is no societal pressure to be cheaters,mths exact opposite actually.

You sure about that? :)

More seriously, there IS social pressure on men to have multiple sexual partners before marriage and men being unfaithful is more tolerated in society.

(Yes, the expectation than men have multiple sexual partners before marriage and women are virgins before marriage is not compatible. There is no logic in social expectations.)

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

(Yes, the expectation than men have multiple sexual partners before marriage and women are virgins before marriage is not compatible. There is no logic in social expectations.)

Well, these days at least, life expectancy for women is longer than for men, not to mention divorcées.  If all those young men get together with older, more experienced women, then it could all work out.  Social stigma against May-December romances where the woman is the older party is still a thing, though.  People may frown with disapproval or roll their eyes and whisper about golddiggers at a young woman marrying a rich old man, but they tend to go "Eww!" at the thought of a virile young man being attracted to and having sex with a woman too old for their idea of a sexy "cougar."

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