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hkmaly

Story, Monday January 22, 2018

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6 hours ago, Scotty said:

The other thing might be if Tedd were to learn what Pandora just did, she might decide that Immortals should be free of their Law because it's a stupid law that decided that protecting family was illegal, being free of that law seems to be Voltaire's main goal since he had stated contempt for it.

I don't think the Will of Magic has any say in Immortal Law. Immortal Law is a legal system, which if I remember correctly was chosen by the Immortals themselves long ago (at any rate, that's how I've always interpreted it). The Will of Magic however has control over and is preparing to change the mechanics of the mortal magic system, and that's what Tedd's been called in to help with.

So I don't think Tedd's opinion on Immoral Law matters at the moment.

2 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

Magic having a code of ethics would be severely limiting from a writing perspective; it would make it exceptionally difficult to create effective villains.

As Tuscahoma mentioned, villains could still use magic to create weapons or otherwise affect inanimate objects in ways that will adversely impact people. Guns still work on magic users, so someone with mundane weapons could still be a threat (in fact, with the gun wielder having greater magic resistance than now, people with non-magical weapons who know how to use them will actually be at an advantage against someone who can only cast spells). And not all villains cause trouble that can be fought physically (for instance, what if someone with the legal power to do so wanted to confiscate the TFG, or force some of the main 8 to join a covert fighting force against their will?).

It's also important to remember that the Immortals will not be affected by the magic change (or at least I'm fairly certain that's the case), so Voltaire could still be a threat for some time.

Finally, it's been established that magic users continue to be able to use their own magic system when they travel to another world, so there could still be a magical threat from opponents from other worlds (such as Magus or Lord Tedd and company).

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This will be interesting, though Dan's commentary has me worried about how things will go bad.

12 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Gee, kind of like all those older, cooler Magic: The Gathering cards you can't use in tournaments any more.

That depends on the kind of tournaments. While the main tournament type(Standard) has a rotating card pool, Wizards of the Coast does support a few 'eternal' formats, that they even incorporate into their major events: Vintage (you can play just about any card in the game, but there's a list of cards that are restricted to one of in your deck for game balance purposes and a small list of cards that are banned for non-balance reasons such as being manual dexterity cards or 'ante' cards), Legacy (like Vintage, but no restricted list, just a banned list for balance and stuff), and Modern(you can play cards from the Mirrodin set onwards and there's a ban list for game balance)

1 hour ago, Tuscahoma said:
2 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

Magic having a code of ethics would be severely limiting from a writing perspective; it would make it exceptionally difficult to create effective villains.

Now on the other side, villains could still exist, just harder to work around the magical code of ethics.  For example, how many people agree to licence agreements without reading all of the fine print, and believe me, some software license agreements are scary.  Duping people to initially accept spells with unexpected consequences would still be a thing.  Could they opt-out later after the spell is cast?  Could a spell affect the ability to opt-out once cast (thinking something mind-control-y perhaps)?  Also, spells could be cast on things that create physical effects that couldn't be avoided.  Being able to start fires, having claws or strength, etc.

Though EULA's are rarely dramatic, and when they are, it typically plays out at the pace of the courtroom, not an action movie. Magic desires to be dramatic and flashy, and seems to want the climatic clashes between 'good' and 'evil' (just not anywhere near where non-magic users might be watching with their smartphones and cameras). A strong, enforced code of ethics would limit that.

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2 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

I don't think the Will of Magic has any say in Immortal Law. Immortal Law is a legal system, which if I remember correctly was chosen by the Immortals themselves long ago (at any rate, that's how I've always interpreted it). The Will of Magic however has control over and is preparing to change the mechanics of the mortal magic system, and that's what Tedd's been called in to help with.

So I don't think Tedd's opinion on Immoral Law matters at the moment.

Why would Voltaire go through the trouble of conditioning Tedd against the WoM if he wasn't counting on Tedd doing something that would have an impact on Immortals?

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9 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

An attractive part of this option is that Pandora could come back and live as a more or less normal human, and not turn into a formless blob every time she takes a nap.

I don't think she was turning into formless blob when she was younger. Like, less than two hundreds.

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

The other thing might be if Tedd were to learn what Pandora just did

That doesn't sound like something will of magic will bother telling her ...

3 hours ago, ChronosCat said:
10 hours ago, Scotty said:

The other thing might be if Tedd were to learn what Pandora just did, she might decide that Immortals should be free of their Law because it's a stupid law that decided that protecting family was illegal, being free of that law seems to be Voltaire's main goal since he had stated contempt for it.

I don't think the Will of Magic has any say in Immortal Law. Immortal Law is a legal system, which if I remember correctly was chosen by the Immortals themselves long ago (at any rate, that's how I've always interpreted it). The Will of Magic however has control over and is preparing to change the mechanics of the mortal magic system, and that's what Tedd's been called in to help with.

So I don't think Tedd's opinion on Immoral Law matters at the moment.

Also this. Magic can't influence immortal law, AND might be unable to influence immortals themselves, or at least limited in what it can do with them. This will be mostly about mortals, with the higher magic resistance being most likely option.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Why would Voltaire go through the trouble of conditioning Tedd against the WoM if he wasn't counting on Tedd doing something that would have an impact on Immortals?

Because he hopes for INDIRECT influence. Something like magic changing in way which would force immortals to revisit their laws. (Also, he might not act exactly rationally about it.)

8 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:
15 hours ago, hkmaly said:

That wouldn't change anything. At least not in how the magic reset will be done. What WILL make big difference, however, and what Voltaire didn't expected, was that Pandora visited Tedd and made him feel much better.

This I think will be the main cause for Voltaire's plan failing.  Pandora filled Tedd in on her first purpose as a seer, but also let her know what else she could do as a Wandmaker, letting her know that she was a powerful wizard in her own way.  Then Pandora helped Tedd work through some of her issues with regards to her parents by explaining how a parent feels in trying to protect her son in a world with magic.  Tedd also reaffirmed that he had guidance, support and love from his friends, especially Elliot.

And maybe most importantly, Pandora in parental role had no problem with her gender-fluidity. There was whole page about it and look at how big effect it had on Tedd.

3 hours ago, ChronosCat said:
6 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

Magic having a code of ethics would be severely limiting from a writing perspective; it would make it exceptionally difficult to create effective villains.

As Tuscahoma mentioned, villains could still use magic to create weapons or otherwise affect inanimate objects in ways that will adversely impact people. Guns still work on magic users, so someone with mundane weapons could still be a threat (in fact, with the gun wielder having greater magic resistance than now, people with non-magical weapons who know how to use them will actually be at an advantage against someone who can only cast spells). And not all villains cause trouble that can be fought physically (for instance, what if someone with the legal power to do so wanted to confiscate the TFG, or force some of the main 8 to join a covert fighting force against their will?).

It's also important to remember that the Immortals will not be affected by the magic change (or at least I'm fairly certain that's the case), so Voltaire could still be a threat for some time.

Finally, it's been established that magic users continue to be able to use their own magic system when they travel to another world, so there could still be a magical threat from opponents from other worlds (such as Magus or Lord Tedd and company).

And considering EGS doesn't require such high amount of villains and we already have Voltaire and Lord Tedd on list, I don't think the limiting of writing would be that big issue. I still think that making magic opt-in would be too much.

3 hours ago, Drasvin said:

Though EULA's are rarely dramatic, and when they are, it typically plays out at the pace of the courtroom, not an action movie. Magic desires to be dramatic and flashy, and seems to want the climatic clashes between 'good' and 'evil' (just not anywhere near where non-magic users might be watching with their smartphones and cameras). A strong, enforced code of ethics would limit that.

Yes. Magic wants drama, so it's unlikely to generate rules which results in most villains being rule-lawyers.

(Also, I don't think non-magic users watching is what pisses magic so much. It's the fact they will then try to research magic which matter.)

 

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2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Because he hopes for INDIRECT influence. Something like magic changing in way which would force immortals to revisit their laws. (Also, he might not act exactly rationally about it.)

That's what I was talking about, Voltaire wanted Tedd to be of a frame of mind that would affect how the meeting with the WoM turns out. BUT it's DIRECT because Voltaire is attempting to game the system in his favour.

If causing Immortals to change their Law was an unexpected side effect, then I'd agree that it was indirect, but Voltaire expects it to happen.

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8 minutes ago, Scotty said:
17 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Because he hopes for INDIRECT influence. Something like magic changing in way which would force immortals to revisit their laws. (Also, he might not act exactly rationally about it.)

That's what I was talking about, Voltaire wanted Tedd to be of a frame of mind that would affect how the meeting with the WoM turns out. BUT it's DIRECT because Voltaire is attempting to game the system in his favour.

If causing Immortals to change their Law was an unexpected side effect, then I'd agree that it was indirect, but Voltaire expects it to happen.

It's just semantics, but it's indirect because the magic change will not change the laws directly, but indirectly by making immortals more likely to revisit them.

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As far as I know, no one has ever asked these questions:

  1. Does Arthur Arthur know the first purpose of Seers?
  2. Does Arthur Arthur know Tedd is a Seer?
  3. Does Arthur Arthur know the second purpose of Seers?

I arranged these questions in the order of probability that each has a "yes" answer. Arthur Arthur almost certainly knows that Seers will be able to restore the use of magic to at least a few people after a Change. My reasoning is that he knows what the Change is and what will provoke it, and that he's part of a secret organization that wants to control magic. What better way to control magic than to have control of the only people who will be able to use magic after a Change and teach others how to use it?

So why doesn't Tedd's dad seem to know Tedd is a Seer? If he knew about Seers at all, he should have been able to guess why that Magic Analyzing wand couldn't read Tedd.

This is where I'm beginning my latest amazing crackpot plot theory: Arthur did suspect Tedd was a Seer, and acted to make sure his extremely powerful and dangerous parents didn't find out with an eye to co-opting Tedd so he could use Tedd after the next Change, which I now suspect he has been working for a long time to bring on. Possibly Arthur may have tried to deport Raven to keep Raven from influencing Tedd, and even had a hand in breaking up Tedd's parents.

Gee, kind of sounds like the kind of thing Voltaire's been up to, doesn't it? With that in mind, take another look at Arthur Arthur's last appearance to date and think again about what he says in the last two panels. 

If I'm right about this, expect some Feds to show up looking for Tedd very soon. Probably not Wolf and Cranium, because if Arthur has half a brain, he should know they're really Edward's people.

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48 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

As far as I know, no one has ever asked these questions:

  1. Does Arthur Arthur know the first purpose of Seers?
  2. Does Arthur Arthur know Tedd is a Seer?
  3. Does Arthur Arthur know the second purpose of Seers?

Very good questions, but also very hard to answer now.

47 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

I arranged these questions in the order of probability that each has a "yes" answer. Arthur Arthur almost certainly knows that Seers will be able to restore the use of magic to at least a few people after a Change. My reasoning is that he knows what the Change is and what will provoke it, and that he's part of a secret organization that wants to control magic. What better way to control magic than to have control of the only people who will be able to use magic after a Change and teach others how to use it?

Arthur Arthur may not be aware that wandmakers are seers or generally that seers can be recognized before the reset. He may simply assume that DGB will be in position to get control of these people quickly after reset.

Alternatively, Arthur Arthur might already know about wandmaker EMPLOYED BY DGB.

50 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

So why doesn't Tedd's dad seem to know Tedd is a Seer? If he knew about Seers at all, he should have been able to guess why that Magic Analyzing wand couldn't read Tedd.

I don't think ANYONE is aware that seers magic resistance is so big even babies can resist analysis.

51 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

This is where I'm beginning my latest amazing crackpot plot theory: Arthur did suspect Tedd was a Seer, and acted to make sure his extremely powerful and dangerous parents didn't find out with an eye to co-opting Tedd so he could use Tedd after the next Change, which I now suspect he has been working for a long time to bring on.

IF Arthur would suspect Tedd was a Seer, then the analysing wand didn't failed because Tedd resisted ; it failed because Arthur modified it to report seers as negatives.

52 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Possibly Arthur may have tried to deport Raven to keep Raven from influencing Tedd, and even had a hand in breaking up Tedd's parents.

Possibly Arthur may have tried to deport Raven even BEFORE Tedd was born (or before Arthur got Tedds result). Deporting someone training Noriko and Edward would be good motivation even without the stuff with seers.

54 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

If I'm right about this, expect some Feds to show up looking for Tedd very soon. Probably not Wolf and Cranium, because if Arthur has half a brain, he should know they're really Edward's people.

There may be another reason why Feds would arrive at Edward's house: they would like to confiscate TF gun and all allien technology, as after losing magic, it will became more important.

... however, the way Dan was talking about rest of Sisters 3, I suspect it will happen in NEXT story.

Of course, all of this speculation will be invalidated if Tedd convince magic big reset is not needed. In such case, Arthur might not recognize that what happened was the change of magic and that there will be no reset coming ...

... anyway, looking forward to Arthur Arthur next appearance.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

There may be another reason why Feds would arrive at Edward's house: they would like to confiscate TF gun and all allien technology, as after losing magic, it will became more important.

And confiscating the wand maker, even more important.

5 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

... however, the way Dan was talking about rest of Sisters 3, I suspect it will happen in NEXT story.

"Soon" in Moperverse time; not necessarily that soon in our time. I think the events in Part 23 will all take place in effectively no time at all, pretty much like Tedd's conversation with the whales or the download from Nioi's nose beep. So the Feds could actually be entering the basement now, but we may not know about it until April or May.

The pattern for EGS has usually been some shorter arcs, then a long arc, and then another short arc or two. But the pattern seems to be broken for the last three arcs. Squirrel Prophet. Together they've taken thirty-four (34) months to cover just eight Moperverse days, and neither the current Moperville day nor the current story arc is finished. And if this is the final part of Catspaws, of course, we'll need a month or so for Q&A#8 before the next story. So, maybe the Fourth of July. Or, for our European members, Bastille Day.

Possibly I may be joking. But even I'm not sure about that.

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4 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

This is where I'm beginning my latest amazing crackpot plot theory: Arthur did suspect Tedd was a Seer, and acted to make sure his extremely powerful and dangerous parents didn't find out with an eye to co-opting Tedd so he could use Tedd after the next Change, which I now suspect he has been working for a long time to bring on. Possibly Arthur may have tried to deport Raven to keep Raven from influencing Tedd, and even had a hand in breaking up Tedd's parents.

There's one thing missing: Arthur seems to have done absolutely nothing to encourage Tedd to be loyal to him over Edward. If Arthur had plans which would require Tedd's compliance, then we would expect him to have tried to cultivate Tedd's loyalty in some manner.

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Here's a question - what happens to Abraham if magic resets?  It's pretty much down to two options - he becomes a normal statue, or he becomes a normal human, and I'm not sure which is more likely.  It's been suggested that wizards are going to stay wizards, they're just going to lose their spells...

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I'm going to go out on a limb and say that ongoing magical effects expire. For people like Abraham that would be a good thing, since he would be disenchanted and revert to ordinary flesh. For those who are on magically-powered life support however (e.g. most Aberrations), suddenly losing the magic that is keeping them going could be quite catastrophic if they are not reverted to a non-Aberrant form.

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The links posted show lots of evidence Arthur Arthur knows about the possibility of Magic resetting, but I seem to be missing the evidence that Arthur Arthur even knows about the existence of Seers.  He's only been talking about the reset, and in one case the Will of Magic, as far as I can see.

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13 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:
14 hours ago, hkmaly said:

There may be another reason why Feds would arrive at Edward's house: they would like to confiscate TF gun and all allien technology, as after losing magic, it will became more important.

And confiscating the wand maker, even more important.

Only if they are aware Tedd is one.

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I'm going to say that ongoing magical effects persist on their original terms, but magically-induced ongoing abilities in humans do not.

Abraham is, at the moment, a statue not a human. So his ability to revert to human when specific circumstances occur would remain.

Once those circumstances occur and he's human, though, he may not know how to use magic under the new rules.

An alternative, given what we've seen in this comic so far, is that ongoing magical effects fail in dramatic but non-dangerous ways. A magically-powered device keeping a person alive will continue to function as long as it remains in use keeping THAT person alive - moving it to another person is chancy, and if it gets put in storage it's dead. A floating castle will drift down over a town, threatening to crush it, and then land in an empty field just outside of town. That sort of thing.

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16 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Arthur Arthur almost certainly knows that Seers will be able to restore the use of magic to at least a few people after a Change. My reasoning is that he knows what the Change is and what will provoke it, and that he's part of a secret organization that wants to control magic. What better way to control magic than to have control of the only people who will be able to use magic after a Change and teach others how to use it?

I figured he either doesn't know about Seers or doesn't realize they'll know things about the new rules of magic without seeing someone use the new magic first, and his thought is "If magic changes then my job of hiding it will be really easy for a while."

10 hours ago, WR...S said:

Here's a question - what happens to Abraham if magic resets?  It's pretty much down to two options - he becomes a normal statue, or he becomes a normal human, and I'm not sure which is more likely.  It's been suggested that wizards are going to stay wizards, they're just going to lose their spells...

It's also possible magic doesn't change enough to disrupt his spell, or that the spell is "grandfathered" in for his safety (at least until he next awakens).

As for the options you mentioned, Dan has mentioned before not liking inanimate TFs. So I highly doubt he'd have Abraham become a lifeless statue. (I suspect the only reason Dan even was comfortable with the statue transformation in the first place was because it Abraham did it to himself on purpose and is unconscious the entire time.)

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16 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

I'm going to say that ongoing magical effects persist on their original terms, but magically-induced ongoing abilities in humans do not.

Abraham is, at the moment, a statue not a human. So his ability to revert to human when specific circumstances occur would remain.

Once those circumstances occur and he's human, though, he may not know how to use magic under the new rules.

An alternative, given what we've seen in this comic so far, is that ongoing magical effects fail in dramatic but non-dangerous ways. A magically-powered device keeping a person alive will continue to function as long as it remains in use keeping THAT person alive - moving it to another person is chancy, and if it gets put in storage it's dead. A floating castle will drift down over a town, threatening to crush it, and then land in an empty field just outside of town. That sort of thing.

While this particular Q&A page specifically mentions the TFG in relation to zapping people into inanimate objects not being possible. The first line of the commentary states "I don't like turning people into objects" which could apply to anything magic related as well. So my guess would be that Dan considers Abraham a special case and probably even has thought of ways that Abraham could be made inanimate but not in any danger if being stuck like that forever. We already know that using the diamond triggers Abraham's release, but there might be other conditionals that either Abraham set or something that the spell has built in to prevent permanence. I dunno, seeing as Pandora once warned Magus that Abraham would be his adversary, I do wonder if it will be Abraham that is instrumental in freeing Ellen from Sirleck, it would certainly go a long way in helping atone for trying to kill her.

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36 minutes ago, Scotty said:

While this particular Q&A page specifically mentions the TFG in relation to zapping people into inanimate objects not being possible. The first line of the commentary states "I don't like turning people into objects" which could apply to anything magic related as well. So my guess would be that Dan considers Abraham a special case and probably even has thought of ways that Abraham could be made inanimate but not in any danger if being stuck like that forever. We already know that using the diamond triggers Abraham's release, but there might be other conditionals that either Abraham set or something that the spell has built in to prevent permanence.

I think that the variant that the spell "fails safe", that is, transforms Abraham to live person when it fails, would match the general idea.

37 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I dunno, seeing as Pandora once warned Magus that Abraham would be his adversary, I do wonder if it will be Abraham that is instrumental in freeing Ellen from Sirleck, it would certainly go a long way in helping atone for trying to kill her.

However, most likely Abraham will be waken up before reset by Magus touching the diamond, will go investigate and finds that there is no need to kill Magus, however Sirleck will be good target for him ...

 

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17 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Arthur Arthur may not be aware that wandmakers are seers or generally that seers can be recognized before the reset. He may simply assume that DGB will be in position to get control of these people quickly after reset.

Alternatively, Arthur Arthur might already know about wandmaker EMPLOYED BY DGB.

We know, from here, that there is a black market for wands now, so I'm sure that DGB is very much aware of wand makers.

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34 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

They're aware Tedd made all those marvelous mods on the TF gun

Tedd programmed the TF gun.  That shows some promise. 

Then Tedd reverse-engineered the TF gun and built his own.  That's a bigger deal.

It's Tedd's magitech research that would be the big thing.  He's making wands (in the form of watches) with spell slots that he can program and reprogram.  Even if the DGB knows how to do that, Tedd teaching himself would be a big deal. 

Odds are good the DGB *don't* know how to build programmable magic items, which makes Tedd's self-taught discovery a super-huge mega-awesome big deal, topping someone with a 'time stop" ability by an order of magnitude.

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3 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Odds are good the DGB *don't* know how to build programmable magic items, which makes Tedd's self-taught discovery a super-huge mega-awesome big deal, topping someone with a 'time stop" ability by an order of magnitude.

Assuming, of course, he still has that ability post change of magic.  Odd are he will, but right now that is assuming facts not in evidence. 

Which brings us to "what is Tedd's first action after the change going to be"?   I've got 20 $Q that says he calls all of the magic using members of the main 8 together and tells them how to do magic again.

 

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Just now, mlooney said:

Assuming, of course, he still has that ability post change of magic.  Odd are he will, but right now that is assuming facts not in evidence. 

Which brings us to "what is Tedd's first action after the change going to be"?   I've got 20 $Q that says he calls all of the magic using members of the main 8 together and tells them how to do magic again.

If magic items remain a part of Magic's new ruleset, Tedd would be the person to know how they work or figure it out, both because he's consulting on the change and because he's a Seer and this is his home territory.

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1 minute ago, Vorlonagent said:

If magic items remain a part of Magic's new ruleset, Tedd would be the person to know how they work or figure it out, both because he's consulting on the change and because he's a Seer and this is his home territory.

Oh, yeah, no question there.  Actually I want to change my bet on Tedd's first action to "among his first actions will be telling his friends how to do magic and making sure he can still make watches/wands."  The order of those two is too close to call,l at least to me.

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