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hkmaly

Story, Monday January 22, 2018

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2 minutes ago, mlooney said:

Which brings us to "what is Tedd's first action after the change going to be"?   I've got 20 $Q that says he calls all of the magic using members of the main 8 together and tells them how to do magic again.

And that would be when Tedd finds out Nanase doesn't know where Ellen is and that he can't reach Elliot. Magus has been observing long enough to know what mobile phones are for so he would know it wouldn't be best to answer any calls, and given that the Dewitchery Diamond is stored way out in the boonies somewhere, Elliot's phone is probably out of service range (especially if he uses Verizon.)

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2 minutes ago, mlooney said:

Oh, yeah, no question there.  Actually I want to change my bet on Tedd's first action to "among his first actions will be telling his friends how to do magic and making sure he can still make watches/wands."  The order of those two is too close to call,l at least to me.

I'd like to see a Father-child moment where Ed Verres gets a chance to give Tedd a rare moment of praise and appreciation.

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1 minute ago, Vorlonagent said:

I'd like to see a Father-child moment where Ed Verres gets a chance to give Tedd a rare moment of praise and appreciation.

That would be good as well, but I that would need to be done by Ed to have much meaning.  I'm not seeing Tedd, in his current mode of operation, going to his father for approval as a primary action.

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40 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

And that would be when Tedd finds out Nanase doesn't know where Ellen is and that he can't reach Elliot.

Oh, yeah, forgot about that.   Acting as the cavalry or cavalry support ala "Painted black" might be higher on her list.  Or she might be telling the mages how to cast spells as they ride to the rescue.

 

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1 minute ago, mlooney said:

That would be good as well, but I that would need to be done by Ed to have much meaning.  I'm not seeing Tedd, in his current mode of operation, going to his father for approval as a primary action.

Agreed.  Maybe they run into each other and Tedd says "hey Dad, guess what just happened?!?!" or something more Tedd-ish than that.

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How about, Tedd is with his friends and is triumphant, happy, proud....Dad sees his grin....then Tedd sees his dad and his face falls and he gets all closed up and wary.  And Edward sees the change in his son, and realizes how bad their relationship has gotten.

Bonus points if Tedd is in girl form, and Edward manages to show her unconditional love and approval.

Extra-bonus points if he wraps her in a big hug and outright tells her he's proud of her.

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2 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

How about, Tedd is with his friends and is triumphant, happy, proud....Dad sees his grin....then Tedd sees his dad and his face falls and he gets all closed up and wary.  And Edward sees the change in his son, and realizes how bad their relationship has gotten.

Bonus points if Tedd is in girl form, and Edward manages to show her unconditional love and approval.

Extra-bonus points if he wraps her in a big hug and outright tells her he's proud of her.

That would work.

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22 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

How about, Tedd is with his friends and is triumphant, happy, proud....Dad sees his grin....then Tedd sees his dad and his face falls and he gets all closed up and wary.  And Edward sees the change in his son, and realizes how bad their relationship has gotten.

Bonus points if Tedd is in girl form, and Edward manages to show her unconditional love and approval.

Extra-bonus points if he wraps her in a big hug and outright tells her he's proud of her.

Yo!  "The Dan"  Make This Happen.

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Note: Lot of discussion here assumes the magic reset will be big deal. Last story page offers the option that Tedd will convince magic limited change will be sufficient.

4 hours ago, mlooney said:
20 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Alternatively, Arthur Arthur might already know about wandmaker EMPLOYED BY DGB.

We know, from here, that there is a black market for wands now, so I'm sure that DGB is very much aware of wand makers.

They may be using wand-making wands.

3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:
4 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

They're aware Tedd made all those marvelous mods on the TF gun

Tedd programmed the TF gun.  That shows some promise. 

Then Tedd reverse-engineered the TF gun and built his own.  That's a bigger deal.

It's Tedd's magitech research that would be the big thing.  He's making wands (in the form of watches) with spell slots that he can program and reprogram.  Even if the DGB knows how to do that, Tedd teaching himself would be a big deal. 

Odds are good the DGB *don't* know how to build programmable magic items, which makes Tedd's self-taught discovery a super-huge mega-awesome big deal, topping someone with a 'time stop" ability by an order of magnitude.

Yet they didn't show at Tedd's house, possibly because they are assuming Edward will report everything Tedd does just like now. After all, when they tried to reproduce the research, it didn't work, and the watches themselves don't work outside Moperville ...

3 hours ago, mlooney said:

Assuming, of course, he still has that ability post change of magic.  Odd are he will, but right now that is assuming facts not in evidence. 

He probably will. However, DGB may assume he will not.

3 hours ago, mlooney said:

Which brings us to "what is Tedd's first action after the change going to be"?   I've got 20 $Q that says he calls all of the magic using members of the main 8 together and tells them how to do magic again.

First thing, she will make wand working in new settings and make sure she can still change to boy and back. No point calling others until she KNOWS what to tell them. If the reset won't happen right away or it will be already too late, she may decide to only call others next morning ...

Alternatively, she WILL call others just saying that there is something she wants to tell them tomorrow, if they can come. (Not safe topics to discuss over phones anyway.)

3 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

And that would be when Tedd finds out Nanase doesn't know where Ellen is and that he can't reach Elliot. Magus has been observing long enough to know what mobile phones are for so he would know it wouldn't be best to answer any calls, and given that the Dewitchery Diamond is stored way out in the boonies somewhere, Elliot's phone is probably out of service range (especially if he uses Verizon.)

The "can't reach Elliot" won't be suspicious by itself. He's supposed to be on date. NANASE is supposed to be on date in fact (solving cases DOES doubles as date for them).

3 hours ago, mlooney said:
3 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

And that would be when Tedd finds out Nanase doesn't know where Ellen is and that he can't reach Elliot.

Oh, yeah, forgot about that.   Acting as the cavalry or cavalry support ala "Painted black" might be higher on her list.  Or she might be telling the mages how to cast spells as they ride to the rescue.

They wouldn't be much useful as cavalry without their magic.

3 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

How about, Tedd is with his friends and is triumphant, happy, proud....Dad sees his grin....then Tedd sees his dad and his face falls and he gets all closed up and wary.  And Edward sees the change in his son, and realizes how bad their relationship has gotten.

Bonus points if Tedd is in girl form, and Edward manages to show her unconditional love and approval.

Extra-bonus points if he wraps her in a big hug and outright tells her he's proud of her.

More bonus points if during that touching moment Edward forgets to find out what happened.

Even more if Tedd DELIBERATELY uses the subject of Edward not approving his gender changes as a way to distract Edward from magic reset AND/OR the Magus issue if they already solved that.

Although there is other way I suspect it may go: Edward seeing Tedd after reset, already knowing that spells are not working, noticing she's girl and freaking out if Tedd can still change back. He can still get bonus points if the resulting discussion makes him realize how he's hurting his son/daughter, hugs her and apologize.

 

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13 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Yet they didn't show at Tedd's house, possibly because they are assuming Edward will report everything Tedd does just like now. After all, when they tried to reproduce the research, it didn't work, and the watches themselves don't work outside Moperville ...

Tedd's watches don't work outside Moperville's elevated ambient magic. IIRC it's only a magical energy input question not a "must be within x miles of Tedd's House" question.  A competent mage with enough personal energy storage, say Ed Verres, Wolf, Cranium or any other magic-user on the DGB should be able to use a Tedd watch anywhere.  Even Susan, Justin Elliot, Ellen or Nanase.

Agreed that the DGB wouldn't be able to reproduce Tedd's ability to program a watch unless they have a Seer on the payroll.

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1 minute ago, Vorlonagent said:
14 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Yet they didn't show at Tedd's house, possibly because they are assuming Edward will report everything Tedd does just like now. After all, when they tried to reproduce the research, it didn't work, and the watches themselves don't work outside Moperville ...

Tedd's watches don't work outside Moperville's elevated ambient magic. IIRC it's only a magical energy input question not a "must be within x miles of Tedd's House" question.  A competent mage with enough personal energy storage, say Ed Verres, Wolf, Cranium or any other magic-user on the DGB should be able to use a Tedd watch anywhere.  Even Susan, Justin Elliot, Ellen or Nanase.

Well obviously. It still makes them less useful for DGB as long as they have wands. And they probably still have the watches used for testing the "outside Moperville" stuff, so they can easily verify they stopped working just like wands after magic reset. No need to ask Tedd about that.

4 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Agreed that the DGB wouldn't be able to reproduce Tedd's ability to program a watch unless they have a Seer on the payroll.

To be more exact, they wouldn't be able to reproduce watch programming unless they have Seer AND the Seer will be the one doing the testing. It's possible that the testing is done by different division who's members don't have "need to know" about Seers.

Remember: everything points out to DGB not realizing Tedd is wandmaker. Or, if they did, it's classified super secret do-not-tell-Edward.

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I'm still not convinced DGB even knows about the existence of Seers.  Arthur Arthur is planning on a reset keeping magic use quiet for decades, which seems less likely to happen if there are people who know how magic works and can show others.  No one has mentioned Seers and Edward is in-the-know enough that something like that wouldn't escape his knowledge, unless it's escaped everyone's knowledge.

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2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Well obviously. It still makes them less useful for DGB as long as they have wands. And they probably still have the watches used for testing the "outside Moperville" stuff, so they can easily verify they stopped working just like wands after magic reset. No need to ask Tedd about that.

The next step would be a programmable wand or even staff.
 

4 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

To be more exact, they wouldn't be able to reproduce watch programming unless they have Seer AND the Seer will be the one doing the testing. It's possible that the testing is done by different division who's members don't have "need to know" about Seers.

it's entirely possible that the DGB would arrange a non-Seer (who doesn't know about Seers)to duplicate Tedd's work just to confirm that Tedd's watches are the product of a Seer.  It's big stuff either way.  A non-Seer wandmaker or a bona-fide Seer who knows what he is doing. 

8 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Remember: everything points out to DGB not realizing Tedd is wandmaker. Or, if they did, it's classified super secret do-not-tell-Edward.

Assessing a negative is always difficult.  What points to the DGB not knowing Tedd is a Seer?  The only thing I can think of is that they haven't taken him into custody.  There could be other reasons for that.  The most prominent of which being they *don't* know Tedd is a Seer because Ed Verres reports faithfully on everybody else, leading them to think they know everything, but leaving them in the dark about Tedd.

If Ed Verres knows the full extend of what Tedd can do, there's really no way he shouldn't realize Tedd is a Seer.  The only way he wouldn't is if Verres himself didn't know what a Seer is.

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46 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

If Ed Verres knows the full extend of what Tedd can do, there's really no way he shouldn't realize Tedd is a Seer.  The only way he wouldn't is if Verres himself didn't know what a Seer is.

Yes. Either Edward knows very little about what Tedd can do, or he doesn't know what wand-maker is. He doesn't even need to know about seers specifically, as in knowing about their relationship to magic reset.
The fact he IS reporting on whole main eight makes fact he overlook what Tedd can do quite unlikely. On the other hand, the darkest place is under the candlestick.

48 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Assessing a negative is always difficult.  What points to the DGB not knowing Tedd is a Seer?

The fact Edward doesn't know. As I said, DGB either didn't realized Tedd is seer or is keeping it hidden from Edward and all "his" people.

56 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

I'm still not convinced DGB even knows about the existence of Seers.  Arthur Arthur is planning on a reset keeping magic use quiet for decades, which seems less likely to happen if there are people who know how magic works and can show others.

Exactly.

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Just now, hkmaly said:

The fact he IS reporting on whole main eight makes fact he overlook what Tedd can do quite unlikely. On the other hand, the darkest place is under the candlestick.

The fact Edward doesn't know. As I said, DGB either didn't realized Tedd is seer or is keeping it hidden from Edward and all "his" people.

Ill agree that someone is likely keeping Tedd's status secret from someone else.  It could be Ed Verres holding out on the DGB or the DGB holding out on Verres, or even both.

Tedd has been written off as a magical dead-end.  He's smart, yes, but it's well-documented that Tedd has "no magical ability".  Ed Verres could report everything Tedd is doing accurately as long as he "forgets" to mention that Tedd's watches use earth-magic not uryouom energy.

That does assume that Ed Verres knows what Seers are and that Tedd is one.  But Verres has to know how hard it is to work with magical implements like wands and staves.  If he knows that Tedd is creating them easily, he has to realize something strange is up with Tedd whether he knows what Seers are or not.  he might also choose to not report Tedd working with earth-magic to his superiors until he knew what was going on himself.

Verres would have to be faithfully reporting that Tedd is working with earth-magic for Verres' superiors at the DGB to realize there's something special to Tedd.  Alternately, they would have to have the Verres house under surveillance and under such good surveillance that Ed Verres wouldn't notice, to learn about Tedd independently from his dad.

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Close to six years ago in our time, but just before the Christmas break in Moperville, Tedd was having one of his basement talks with Elliot, Susan, and Justin which included a flashback to his conversation with his dad about the whales and the magic buildup the previous July. Edward seemed to tell Tedd the whales were nonsense. And on the next page, he asserted that while he might avoid answering some questions, he would never lie to Tedd.

In that flashback, Tedd didn't come out and say he actually saw the whales and communicated with them, and didn't say anything about that gauntlet--a gauntlet that looks very much like Lord Tedd's. So Edward gets a pass, maybe, for not believing Tedd. But it also means that Edward didn't actually tell Tedd there weren't any whales; he just made a statement about wikis which didn't mention the whales. So it could be misdirection, something Edward's been doing his entire adult life.

Another factoid buried in this December conversation is that Tedd's dad has tested the watches outside Moperville and knows that magic is "all sorts of crazy" by that time. Gee, wouldn't you be suspicious that maybe there was something to what Tedd was saying back in July?

There's another question that no one seems to have asked yet. Tedd found out Magic was about to change on Sunday. It's Friday now. Did he tell his dad?

If Tedd did tell  his dad, Edward would have talked to either Arthur or his boss, the musclebound guy we last saw at the gym.  But there's no indication in canon that he said anything to them, or that they told Edward anything. And since they've been anticipating the Change for at least six months, either Edward never told Tedd it was coming or Edward didn't know it was coming.

So how could they have known something Edward, "basically Dumbledore" according to his son, didn't know? A source Edward didn't have. And the most obvious source is Voltaire. Voltaire's been very interested in Tedd and set up the incident that provoked The Change. Getting Edward out of the way could have been part of the plan. That would make Arthur and Assistant Director Leifeld two more catspaws.

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2 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Tedd has been written off as a magical dead-end.  He's smart, yes, but it's well-documented that Tedd has "no magical ability".  Ed Verres could report everything Tedd is doing accurately as long as he "forgets" to mention that Tedd's watches use earth-magic not uryouom energy.

Verres might not know or realize Tedd is now working with magic. However, IF he would believe Tedd is working with Uryuom energy, Tedd's research would be even more groundbreaking.

2 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Alternately, they would have to have the Verres house under surveillance and under such good surveillance that Ed Verres wouldn't notice, to learn about Tedd independently from his dad.

It is possible they have Verres house under surveillance and Edward KNOWS about it and accepts it. However, considering how much of footage from Tedd's basement consist of barely legal naked people, I find hard to believe someone is actually allowed to watch that. Hmmm ... maybe voice-only surveillance? They may also have the computer bugged and be getting the research that way.

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

In that flashback, Tedd didn't come out and say he actually saw the whales and communicated with them, and didn't say anything about that gauntlet--a gauntlet that looks very much like Lord Tedd's. So Edward gets a pass, maybe, for not believing Tedd. But it also means that Edward didn't actually tell Tedd there weren't any whales; he just made a statement about wikis which didn't mention the whales. So it could be misdirection, something Edward's been doing his entire adult life.

While Edward didn't tell it directly, it would be pretty close to lie ... and he SAID it would be dangerous in the same conversation. No, I think that whales are really something DGB never noticed. And Tedd never explained in enough detail, so even after the watches were checked, Edward didn't though about the whales again.

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Tedd found out Magic was about to change on Sunday. It's Friday now. Did he tell his dad?

I don't think so. It's sort of hard to explain how he knows. Also, he still didn't told him about what happened the Friday before.

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

Edward would have talked to either Arthur or his boss, the musclebound guy we last saw at the gym.  But there's no indication in canon that he said anything to them, or that they told Edward anything. And since they've been anticipating the Change for at least six months, either Edward never told Tedd it was coming or Edward didn't know it was coming.

So how could they have known something Edward, "basically Dumbledore" according to his son, didn't know? A source Edward didn't have. And the most obvious source is Voltaire. Voltaire's been very interested in Tedd and set up the incident that provoked The Change. Getting Edward out of the way could have been part of the plan. That would make Arthur and Assistant Director Leifeld two more catspaws.

I definitely agree that the magic change is something Arthur Arthur is keeping from Edward. I think he also didn't told Leifeld everything, even in other opportunities. (And Leifeld only knows from him.)

However, I also don't think Arthur KNOWS his source is Voltaire. I think he would be all kinds of suspicious if Voltaire appeared before him. That, however, doesn't rule out Voltaire getting that information to him indirectly. I was already speculating that perhaps Voltaire arranged Arthur will find some old book with this information ...

 

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5 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

However, I also don't think Arthur KNOWS his source is Voltaire. I think he would be all kinds of suspicious if Voltaire appeared before him. That, however, doesn't rule out Voltaire getting that information to him indirectly. I was already speculating that perhaps Voltaire arranged Arthur will find some old book with this information ...

I agree. If Edward is about misdirection, Voltaire is about indirection. He seems to be pretty careful most of the time to distance himself. That time he revealed himself to gloat in the basement and harass Elliot may turn out to be a big mistake yet.

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33 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

That time he revealed himself to gloat in the basement and harass Elliot may turn out to be a big mistake yet.

The mistake was he decided to gloat while Edward was there.

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16 hours ago, hkmaly said:

To be more exact, they wouldn't be able to reproduce watch programming unless they have Seer AND the Seer will be the one doing the testing. It's possible that the testing is done by different division who's members don't have "need to know" about Seers.

I suspect any wand-maker (we don't know that wand-makers are necessarily seers; I'd say the abundance of wands argues against that) could reproduce the watch programming - although they might have to be shown how first.

Researchers by definition have "need to know" about the underlying principles and mechanisms of what they are researching. And if you want rigorous testing, the test designers qualify as researchers - you can't know that you've properly tested edge cases if you don't know where the edges are.

15 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Ill agree that someone is likely keeping Tedd's status secret from someone else.  It could be Ed Verres holding out on the DGB or the DGB holding out on Verres, or even both.

My guess: Tedd is keeping it secret.

Consider how badly Ed reacts to Tedd in girl-form. Do you suppose Tedd chooses to invite that by routinely being in girl-form while his father's around? And yet quite a lot of Tedd's work is done in girl-form. So for Ed to know about Tedd's magitech experiments, either he'd have to read Tedd's written notes or Tedd would have to make a point of telling him separately.

And if Ed doesn't know, he can't tell DGB.

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2 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

I suspect any wand-maker (we don't know that wand-makers are necessarily seers; I'd say the abundance of wands argues against that) could reproduce the watch programming - although they might have to be shown how first.

IIRC, wand-makers aren't necessarily Seers but if they aren't they are usually following recipes handed down from a Seer.  It's the whole point of being a Seer.  You see how spells work, which confers the ability to encode them into things.

With nothing outside the ability of Magic besides time-travel, EGS could theoretically have an "artificer" special ability that conferred the ability to encode a personal spell into a wand/stave, what-have-you, but unless the person also had the "wizard" keyword, they wouldn't be able to encode a non-personal spell.

2 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

My guess: Tedd is keeping it secret.

Consider how badly Ed reacts to Tedd in girl-form. Do you suppose Tedd chooses to invite that by routinely being in girl-form while his father's around? And yet quite a lot of Tedd's work is done in girl-form. So for Ed to know about Tedd's magitech experiments, either he'd have to read Tedd's written notes or Tedd would have to make a point of telling him separately.

And if Ed doesn't know, he can't tell DGB.

How does Ed Verres react to Tedd as female?  Probably not much most of the time.  But the few negative comments would loom large in Tedd's memory because Verres is the only parent he has left.   Tedd has thought nothing of being in GRace's form for the better part of a day.

Ed Verres is also pretty sneaky.  I would expect he knows more about Tedd's reseach than Tedd thinks he knows.  I'd expect Verres to know more about anything Tedd is trying to hide than tedd thinks he knows.  Old age and treachery defeating youth and strength.  :)

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15 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Verres might not know or realize Tedd is now working with magic. However, IF he would believe Tedd is working with Uryuom energy, Tedd's research would be even more groundbreaking.

As i said in the prior reply, Ed Verres is sneaky.  he tends to know more than he lets on.

In some ways yes Tedd's research would be more groundbreaking.  Uryouom energy tends to work only with living things and Tedd was morphing clothes. 

15 hours ago, hkmaly said:

It is possible they have Verres house under surveillance and Edward KNOWS about it and accepts it. However, considering how much of footage from Tedd's basement consist of barely legal naked people, I find hard to believe someone is actually allowed to watch that. Hmmm ... maybe voice-only surveillance? They may also have the computer bugged and be getting the research that way.

It's easily possible that the Verres house is being watched and Verres knows but hasn't said anything.  See above.

Much depends on if agents were actually able to enter the Verres house.  Ed Verres likely has defenses in place that we have not seen.  Agent Cranium would be a logical choice for  occational drive-by spying.  Given that we now know that Arthur Arthur is also a Seer, Cranium's ability might have been turned into a wand.  We also know from what Tedd has said about his glasses that they have technology that can penetrate at least some layers of matter such as clothing as well.
 

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3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:
6 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

I suspect any wand-maker (we don't know that wand-makers are necessarily seers; I'd say the abundance of wands argues against that) could reproduce the watch programming - although they might have to be shown how first.

IIRC, wand-makers aren't necessarily Seers but if they aren't they are usually following recipes handed down from a Seer.  It's the whole point of being a Seer.  You see how spells work, which confers the ability to encode them into things.

Seers are always wand-makers, so yeah, others could learn to make wands and Seers can make tools for making wands, but if magic changed then Seers would have to make new tools that worked in the new system and teach others how to do so because the old wands and tools would no longer function.

Thing about the watches though, they barely function as wands, and require a high level of ambient energy to be usable, the Whale told Tedd that the watches wouldn't work anywhere else in the world and when the dam gets removed, there won't likely be enough energy in Moperville for them to be worth making. Besides why would Tedd settle for watches when she knows she can make actually functioning wands that would work anywhere?

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2 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Besides why would Tedd settle for watches when she knows she can make actually functioning wands that would work anywhere?

Watches are more fun?

Also Watches wouldn't work for Tedd outside Moperville's high magic.  A proper magic user ought to be able to power a Tedd watch anywhere.

Also also right tool for the right job.  Larger implements like wands and staves have larger energy storage and require less of the user's personal energy, but they're also recognizable and harder to hide.  A watch would require the wearer power any spells in its spell list but it would be less recognizable as a magical implement and/or be easier to hide.

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3 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Also Watches wouldn't work for Tedd outside Moperville's high magic.  A proper magic user ought to be able to power a Tedd watch anywhere.

Tedd's supposedly a Well of Power so in reality the watches should work ONLY for Tedd. Tedd stated that he could ask his dad to test what the whale told him and it was confirmed.

Also considering Edward's supposedly a powerful wizard, if all the watch needed to work was someone with enough of their own energy, the watches should have worked for Edward during his tests right?

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