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Scotty

Story, Wednesday January 24, 2018

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2 minutes ago, Illjwamh said:

Also, something that should have occurred to me before today but somehow didn't: Tedd was female when magic decided to change. Does that mean her choice was made for her, or will she keep the spell Pandora gave her?

Even if Tedd lost the spell, she still has access to Uryuom technology.

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1 minute ago, partner555 said:

Even if Tedd lost the spell, she still has access to Uryuom technology.

Yes, but that would only change her for up to a maximum of one month.  She couldn't even make a change to male be permanent, the way a change to female is made permanent by pregnancy.

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2 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:
4 minutes ago, partner555 said:

Even if Tedd lost the spell, she still has access to Uryuom technology.

Yes, but that would only change her for up to a maximum of one month.  She couldn't even make a change to male be permanent, the way a change to female is made permanent by pregnancy

Tedd's "Seen" that spell in action so it doesn't matter if the mark vanishes and Tedd loses the ability to cast the spell naturally, she's still got the knowledge of how it works that can be passed on to a wand.

I still believe that seers are only effective in teaching people if they've seen at least 1 spell in action while the old system was in place and sharing it in the new system. What Tedd, Arthur and Van have in common here is they would have "seen" magic in action, Tedd and Arthur is obvious how they would have, Van likely "Saw" his mum using magic seeing as he knows she's a monster hunter, so we would have 3 people capable of teaching people magic should the system change.

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5 hours ago, WR...S said:

I'm going to say Noriko is Van's mother, only because it's still "Sister."

That is an excellent point. We know it's not referring to Diane and Susan. The last two have both involved Ellen and the D. Diamond, and this one is likely to as well, but wouldn't it be just like Dan to subvert our expectations and reveal that the "Sister" has really been Tedd all along.

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I hope Van isn't Tedd's brother, or that if he is this fact isn't revealed until after Magic has made it's decision. Tedd needs to be on her A game right now; the last thing she needs is the emotional trauma of learning that the mother she feels abandoned her went on to have another child who she actually stayed with.

3 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

Just these three? Seriously? In the whole world? And two of them are American? And have only one degree of social separation? Good lord, the odds on that must be whatever is beyond astronomical.

That's actually the one thing keeping me from being sure that Van is Tedd's sibling (since the thought did of course immediately occur to me) - it would be so convenient as to be ridiculous. Now, if Friday zooms out to show dozens more seers milling about, then I retract all of this.

I really hope these three aren't the only eligible seers. In addition to the points you made, all of them are Caucasian or part-Caucasian, and unless Dan throws us a major curve-ball none of them are full-time females. If these three are supposed to represent the world, they're seriously lacking in diversity.

3 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
3 hours ago, partner555 said:

Even if Tedd lost the spell, she still has access to Uryuom technology.

Yes, but that would only change her for up to a maximum of one month.  She couldn't even make a change to male be permanent, the way a change to female is made permanent by pregnancy.

Tedd wouldn't want to be one sex permanently, anyway. I doubt she'd even want to stay in male form for the full month; she's always liked to spend a good amount of her free time in female form.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Tedd's "Seen" that spell in action so it doesn't matter if the mark vanishes and Tedd loses the ability to cast the spell naturally, she's still got the knowledge of how it works that can be passed on to a wand.

Assuming spells from the old magic system still work in the new system. I still think the old spells will at least need to be modified in order to be used in the new system, if they can be made to work at all.

1 hour ago, Illjwamh said:

That is an excellent point. We know it's not referring to Diane and Susan. The last two have both involved Ellen and the D. Diamond, and this one is likely to as well, but wouldn't it be just like Dan to subvert our expectations and reveal that the "Sister" has really been Tedd all along.

I figured Diane and Susan still counted since the started as "maybe sisters" and seem to have ended as "sisters in spirit".

And the storyline involving Magus, Sirleck, Elliot, and Ellen  is still building upon the consequences of the first Sister story, so I think that alone would be enough to justify the Sister III title.

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5 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

I figured Diane and Susan still counted since the started as "maybe sisters" and seem to have ended as "sisters in spirit".

And the storyline involving Magus, Sirleck, Elliot, and Ellen  is still building upon the consequences of the first Sister story, so I think that alone would be enough to justify the Sister III title.

I agree (with both of those points), and I really don't think Van is actually Tedd's sibling (nor do I want him to be, at this point); I'm just saying that's the kind of thing Dan would totally do.

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35 minutes ago, Illjwamh said:

I really don't think Van is actually Tedd's sibling

What is (are) the reason(s) you don't think Van is Dan's sibling?

I've already enumerated two reasons I think Van is, and here's another: Dan designed Van as a new character and gave him a name. How many characters has Dan bothered to name in the last sixteen years? And here's another: the kid is now hiding behind Tedd and holding on to her, just like he would his mom.

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Good job, Van.  Hide behind your older sibling...  :)

If Van is a half-brother to Tedd which I also think is likely (the primary reason he might not be is that Dan's fairly screaming that he is and Dan is occasionally sadistic), I'm a little confused how he ended up a Seer.  Did Noriko leave behind a trail of abandoned children looking for a proper heir, all of which (at least two of which) are Seers?  The women's cruelty knows no bounds.

Are there grades of "Seer"?  If Arthur Arthur just thought he was a "wizard with a quirk", can he cast spells?  I thought that wasn't possible for Seers.  Of course, Arthur could be indulging in understatement with the word "quirk", which I also suspect is the case.

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59 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

What is (are) the reason(s) you don't think Van is Dan's sibling?

 

Because all the obvious reasons that everyone is pointing out (and that I immediately thought of as well upon reading the strip) are too obvious.

59 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

 Dan designed Van as a new character and gave him a name. How many characters has Dan bothered to name in the last sixteen years?

131

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48 minutes ago, Illjwamh said:

Because all the obvious reasons that everyone is pointing out (and that I immediately thought of as well upon reading the strip) are too obvious.

131

And a good number of those are just extras that have played small parts in the comic, heck Good Tom has been in what, 2 main story pages and 1 NP page?

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58 minutes ago, Illjwamh said:

Because all the obvious reasons that everyone is pointing out (and that I immediately thought of as well upon reading the strip) are too obvious.

131

I'm a little dense. How about telling us at least some of all of those obvious reasons?

Also, how about listing those 131 names? My guess is there are maybe half that many, averaging out to around four names per year. Even at 131, Dan is pretty darned stingy with names.

Off the top of my head:

  1. Tedd
  2. Elliot
  3. Sarah
  4. Principal Verrucht
  5. Susan
  6. Tony
  7. Grace
  8. Ellen
  9. Phil (at the gas station)
  10. Sandy
  11. Catalina
  12. Damien
  13. Hedge
  14. Guineas
  15. Vlad(ia)
  16. Commander Jaguar
  17. Edward
  18. Wolf
  19. Cranium
  20. Lavender
  21. Minion (not canon)
  22. Tess (not canon)
  23. Beta Tedd
  24. Lord Tedd
  25. General Shade Tail
  26. Nioi
  27. Kaoli (Kaori)
  28. Principal Washington
  29. Adrian Raven
  30. Pandora
  31. Magus
  32. Sirleck
  33. Helena
  34. Demetrius
  35. Rhoda
  36. Lucy
  37. Diane
  38. Liz
  39. Ashley
  40. Gerald
  41. Gary
  42. Derek
  43. Carol Brown
  44. Rich
  45. Larry
  46. Kitty
  47. Tensaided
  48. Justin (how could it have taken so long to get to Justin?)
  49. Nanase (ditto)
  50. Noriko (two appearances)
  51. Matthew Cohen
  52. Bad Tom
  53. Good Tom
  54. Voltaire
  55. Abner the detective
  56. Francine the school janitor
  57. Charlotte
  58. Rhea
  59. Rick
  60. Assistant Directer Leifeld
  61. Arthur Arthur
  62. Sybil (knew a Sybil back in the Sixties, BTW)
  63. Greg
  64. Archie (Second Life)
  65. William
  66. Gillian
  67. Mr. Guyar
  68. Noah
  69. Melissa
  70. Heidi (it's a name, isn't it?)
  71. Luke
  72. Sam (Samantha?)
  73. Kevin (always to blame)
  74. Akiko

I didn't cheat and look any of these up. I know I forgot the name of Rick's boyfriend, the snotty teacher who didn't care that Francine was missing. I also didn't list Mr. & Mrs. Dunkel, Mr. Brown, or Mama Kitsune because they haven't gotten any names that weren't already created for their kids. I think the Moperville South Physics teacher is Mr. Bluel, but I'm not sure of the spelling.

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1 hour ago, Illjwamh said:

Because all the obvious reasons that everyone is pointing out (and that I immediately thought of as well upon reading the strip) are too obvious.

Dan tends to loudly shout about things that are false, while only vaguely hinting about the truth. There's a very good chance that Van and Tedd are at least related, not least because we know nothing about him and the hints that have been dropped are very light - Tengu's pointed reference to Noriko's "first born son" - whereas we were repeatedly hit over the head with half a dozen theories in-universe about how Susan and Diane were related and, although they are related, none of them turned out to be the case!

It's the old "plan misdirection" thing again. Explain how you're going to rob the casino vault in great detail, and nothing will go to plan. Show no details of the plan ahead of time, and everything will go off like clockwork.

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3 hours ago, ChronosCat said:
7 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

Just these three? Seriously? In the whole world? And two of them are American? And have only one degree of social separation? Good lord, the odds on that must be whatever is beyond astronomical.

That's actually the one thing keeping me from being sure that Van is Tedd's sibling (since the thought did of course immediately occur to me) - it would be so convenient as to be ridiculous. Now, if Friday zooms out to show dozens more seers milling about, then I retract all of this.

I really hope these three aren't the only eligible seers. In addition to the points you made, all of them are Caucasian or part-Caucasian, and unless Dan throws us a major curve-ball none of them are full-time females. If these three are supposed to represent the world, they're seriously lacking in diversity.

Hopefully there are more seers in the discussion, though its possible that they're the only ones due to needing to meet two criteria to be called on. 1) They have used magic(Likely meaning making and using wands and other spell catalysts) 2) They don't know about the second purpose. Many seers might not have used magic due to the general secrecy of the magical community. Tedd came into contact with magic due to her friends and family, but if a seer's wizard parents never Awakened, or purposefully hid magic from them, then the chances of using magic decreases significantly. As for the second criteria, passing on knowledge would certainly fit the "Empower and Guide" rule. Voltaire could try to cull any potential seers that he hasn't manipulated (or believes he has manipulated) by passing on that little secret.

1 hour ago, Illjwamh said:

Because all the obvious reasons that everyone is pointing out (and that I immediately thought of as well upon reading the strip) are too obvious.

Sometimes the curveball is that it's too obvious.

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The biggest commality all three share, regardless of whether Van is Norko's son, is they're all a part of the same underground of magicians and the paranormally-connected. 

Tedd and Arthur are cirectly connected to the DGB and Van is the son of wizards, at least one of which taught him a few things about magic.

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It may be that the Will of Magic chose Tedd and Arthur because they were within the geographic area of the actual problem.  Everything that's threatening exposure has happened in Moperville, within the area of increased ambient magic.  If WillOM only needs a few mortals' perspectives, then it may have just gone for whoever was closest.

Which, of course, leaves us with a few possible ways for Van to end up involved.  One way would be that Magic wanted a Seer outside of Moperville, and the bloodline connection to Tedd led directly to Van.  Geographic distance may not be a factor as far as contacting Seers goes.  Another option is that Van and his mother are in or approaching Moperville.  Noriko may have heard about all the goings-on in Moperville, which do seem to have gotten a fair amount of press coverage, or heard through magical contacts about the energy build-up there.  A third option is that Seers from all over the world are involved, but only those who have some sort of connection to each other can see each other.  And, of course, it's possible that Van has some other connection to the situation, such as being another descendant of Pandora, and he ducked behind Tedd because she looks a lot less scary to him than Arthur does.

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13 hours ago, ijuin said:

I would assume that Tedd thinks of Van as British because he is "speaking" with a British accent. That does not imply that Van's father is British, merely that Van was raised among Britons during the years when his speech habits would have been forming.

Note that Tedd might not be the best person to recognize British accent from other European accents and in fact might assume the kid is British simply because it's NOT American.

10 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

Just these three? Seriously? In the whole world? And two of them are American? And have only one degree of social separation? Good lord, the odds on that must be whatever is beyond astronomical.

Remember that not all seers were summoned. Just all seers which are using magic. There IS possibility that seers in other part of world don't, that basically US is country with above average magic "education".

... also, Dan in general doesn't like to think about big world. And he may have exact idea how the argumentation will go between these three and anyone else would only complicate it.

Alternatively, perhaps will of magic can't autotranslate and this is just "English section", with seers who speak other language being separated.

2 hours ago, Drasvin said:

As for the second criteria, passing on knowledge would certainly fit the "Empower and Guide" rule. Voltaire could try to cull any potential seers that he hasn't manipulated (or believes he has manipulated) by passing on that little secret.

... or this. Yes, Voltaire might've been making sure only these three are here. Actually, he probably planed only Tedd and Arthur Arthur to be there, he missed Van.

1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

A third option is that Seers from all over the world are involved, but only those who have some sort of connection to each other can see each other.

This would also be interesting possibility.

10 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
10 hours ago, partner555 said:

Even if Tedd lost the spell, she still has access to Uryuom technology.

Yes, but that would only change her for up to a maximum of one month.  She couldn't even make a change to male be permanent, the way a change to female is made permanent by pregnancy.

One month per use. Yeah. Tedd would be on strict time limit of needing to use TF gun every month until she finds how to do the spell in new system, which can take her how much, two hours? Day?

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

Van likely "Saw" his mum using magic seeing as he knows she's a monster hunter, so we would have 3 people capable of teaching people magic should the system change.

Van might already be taught few spells. He looks old enough to do some chores helping his mother occasionally, like take out the rubbish, do dishes, make her fireball wands ...

6 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

I hope Van isn't Tedd's brother, or that if he is this fact isn't revealed until after Magic has made it's decision.

There is no reason for Tedd to realize this AT ALL. It might wait for next time they meet.

3 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Also, how about listing those 131 names? My guess is there are maybe half that many, averaging out to around four names per year. Even at 131, Dan is pretty darned stingy with names.

There are 58 pages in category people and 75 minor characters on wiki. Granted, that includes "Shop Monster", "Hired Goon", "Susan's Logic", "The Dunkels" and "Helena and Demetrius", on the other hand "Rich" and "Larry" are missing. So if someone wants to actually make exact list of named people from it, please do it on wiki.

Or can you share your source, Illjwamh ?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Or can you share your source, Illjwamh ?

I would imagine the source being the thread keeping track of character appearances. ;)

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4 minutes ago, Scotty said:
7 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Or can you share your source, Illjwamh ?

I would imagine the source being the thread keeping track of character appearances. ;)

The what?

Oh

... well it doesn't match exactly, but still useful and maybe Illjwamh hand-counted people from that list. I'm going to copy that to wiki. With reference and attribution of course. Before it disappears again.

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1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

Everything that's threatening exposure has happened in Moperville

I think you missed that "getting every Immortal on Earth to enter the material plane and cast a spell to kill all aberrations within several miles" part. I don't think Moperville encompasses the entire Earth.

 

1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

If WillOM only needs a few mortals' perspectives, then it may have just gone for whoever was closest.

Um, Canada is about the nearest place where "Mum" is in anything like common use, and the nearest Canada comes to Chicago is Windsor, Ontario, across the bridge from Detroit. That's not exactly close. Britain is something like four thousand miles away. Now Van might actually be living in Moperville now, but Dan would have to be pulling another fast one to make Tedd think he was a Brit even if he turns out to be a Brit.

BTW, one argument against Van being Noriko's son is "Mum." Noriko's son would be just as likely use "Okaa-san" if he was raised by Noriko. Maybe a British nanny?

 

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22 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

BTW, one argument against Van being Noriko's son is "Mum." Noriko's son would be just as likely use "Okaa-san" if he was raised by Noriko. Maybe a British nanny?

If he's tri-langual like Nanase, he might be using Mum JUST because he speaks English.

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2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

If he's tri-langual like Nanase, he might be using Mum JUST because he speaks English.

I thought about this.  there's a nice explanation and a not-nice one.   Both explanations assume Van's father is British and Van is being raised by his father.

The nice explanation is Van is being raised well away from Noriko's monster-hunting activities to prevent Van from being used in revenge attempts such as not-Tengue's in Moperville.

The less-nice explanation is Van showed no more magical ability at birth than Tedd and Norko abandoned Van the same way she did Tedd.

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Another amazing crackpot plot theory? How do I do it? How can you stop me?

This one is that what's involved in the magic change will have include a change for Immortals. This whole mess started with Immortals messing around in ways that exposed magic to humans in a way that had to be more spectacular and widespread than the Fire-Throwing Horde that set off the last Change, and it was the Immortals that did the world-wide exposing. Voltaire must be aiming for a change in the rules--but it won't be the change he had in mind.

I also think that Voltaire will be joining the debate.

And I think by the end of The Fate of Magic, the Will of Magic will take on a perceptible form which will be a very large surprise. But I won't tell you what I think that form will be.

2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

If he's tri-langual like Nanase, he might be using Mum JUST because he speaks English.

True, but I said "just as likely". Anyway, as I posited in the comments for Monday, I don't think that Tedd, Arthur, and Van are "really" wherever they are, in body, and I don't think they are actually speaking with their lips or hearing with their ears. They are perceiving things outside of time and the reality of the material plane, something like Tedd's little talk with the whales. If there is more diversity, I would expect everyone to seem to be speaking English to us. The "Mum" may just be a way to communicate Britishness, or another curve ball from Dan.

Or maybe actual subtitles will magically appear. Ellen would really like them when she hears Nanase speaking Japanese.

5 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

The nice explanation is Van is being raised well away from Noriko's monster-hunting activities to prevent Van from being used in revenge attempts such as not-Tengue's in Moperville.

I'll go for the nice(r) explanation.

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13 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

This one is that what's involved in the magic change will have include a change for Immortals. This whole mess started with Immortals messing around in ways that exposed magic to humans in a way that had to be more spectacular and widespread than the Fire-Throwing Horde that set off the last Change, and it was the Immortals that did the world-wide exposing. Voltaire must be aiming for a change in the rules--but it won't be the change he had in mind.

Yes, it's entirely possible new magic rules will include that marking humans is much harder if possible at all. Note that that's not change OF immortals - it still changes how magic works for humans.

14 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

I also think that Voltaire will be joining the debate.

I don't think he's able to.

21 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

The less-nice explanation is Van showed no more magical ability at birth than Tedd and Norko abandoned Van the same way she did Tedd.

If that would be true, he wouldn't even know his mother is monster hunter, much less threatened people with her.

22 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

I thought about this.  there's a nice explanation and a not-nice one.   Both explanations assume Van's father is British and Van is being raised by his father.

I have other explanation, just little less nice: Noriko is often busy hunting monsters (which involves travelling after them), so the father is doing most of raising despite not deliberately trying to keep Van hidden.

 

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:
8 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

I hope Van isn't Tedd's brother, or that if he is this fact isn't revealed until after Magic has made it's decision.

There is no reason for Tedd to realize this AT ALL. It might wait for next time they meet.

Well, assuming Magic makes it's decision this chapter, the next time they meet would count as "after Magic has made it's decision".

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4 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:
8 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

I hope Van isn't Tedd's brother, or that if he is this fact isn't revealed until after Magic has made it's decision.

There is no reason for Tedd to realize this AT ALL. It might wait for next time they meet.

Well, assuming Magic makes it's decision this chapter, the next time they meet would count as "after Magic has made it's decision".

Yes, but the reverse is not true.

What I wanted to say is that not only it isn't revealed until after Magic has made it's decision, BUT it will also not be revealed shortly afterwards while still in this "meeting space" in the case magic makes decision before dismissing the meeting.

In other words, that it won't happen in whole Sister 3.

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