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Pharaoh RutinTutin

Story Friday January 26, 2018

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I'm surprised Arthur doesn't already know.  I guess Edward's embarrassment is enough to override "full disclosure"?  That's... horrifying.

Well, we know what two votes will be.  Guess Van's the kingmaker here...

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Tedd didn't know the second purpose of a seer because research in that basement often went in unpredictable directions.

Van didn't know the second purpose because he's just a kid who has probably never researched his own magic so much as just played with it (see Tedd).

Why Arthur never looked closely at that particular part of his own magic, I can not guess.

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Ok it took me too long to type out the other thread so it can be merged here at some point. ;)

I do have something else to add. That last line "or if only minimal changes will be made to accommodate it's reveal."  I wonder if it means that if what Tedd, Arthur and Van say with the perspectives is favourable enough, that the WoM might allow magic to be known, let existing magic users keep their magic, but somehow make it harder for new magic users to awaken for a while, it might still be enough to keep magic use from getting too widespread, but for a few decades there will be an age of superheroes and wizards exist which will eventually die out as...well...magic users die out... then there would be a period where people will eventually forget about all of it and the WoM can start letting some people learn magic again.

 

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It's possible the change in magic the allows it to be revealed would mean Will is actually compromising, and letting magic become more widely used.

It's also possible that these three will argue about what they should recommend until Van is finally persuaded one way or the other, only to discover that Will wasn't actually after their decision, only hearing their reasoning, and will end up doing the opposite of what Van decided.

 

21 minutes ago, PrimordialSoul253 said:

Diligent researchers, eh?

http://www.egscomics.com/index.php?id=2192

This is true, I don't care whether Dan decides someone else is an ineligible Seer or not, at least two of our Q&A hosts are Seers.  :-D

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41 minutes ago, WR...S said:

I'm surprised Arthur doesn't already know.  I guess Edward's embarrassment is enough to override "full disclosure"?  That's... horrifying.

It's personal, not related to research or spells, doesn't need to be disclosured. Also, I don't think Arthur personally read Edward reports.

30 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Tedd didn't know the second purpose of a seer because research in that basement often went in unpredictable directions.

Van didn't know the second purpose because he's just a kid who has probably never researched his own magic so much as just played with it (see Tedd).

The second purpose can't be found just by self-analysis.

30 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Why Arthur never looked closely at that particular part of his own magic, I can not guess.

... however, it does surprise me a little that Arthur Arthur didn't found it in DGB's archives. I assumed the information is just not accessible, but two seers finding out and Arthur Arthur didn't? He even found something about reset!

24 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I do have something else to add. That last line "or if only minimal changes will be made to accommodate it's reveal."  I wonder if it means that if what Tedd, Arthur and Van say with the perspectives is favourable enough, that the WoM might allow magic to be known, let existing magic users keep their magic, but somehow make it harder for new magic users to awaken for a while, it might still be enough to keep magic use from getting too widespread, but for a few decades there will be an age of superheroes and wizards exist which will eventually die out as...well...magic users die out... then there would be a period where people will eventually forget about all of it and the WoM can start letting some people learn magic again.

I don't think the knowledge would be forgotten. In today's word, losing something this important is unlikely to happen. It MIGHT've happened in past, yes, but if magic reveals itself now, it will be forever.

I do suppose there will be some changes preventing magic becoming too widespread, but not enough to cause wizards and magic users to die out. For start, magic likely can't remove hereditary magical talents. It can make harder to awaken them though, so only determined people will became magic users in future and the number won't go so high. Relatively.

... because there are a lot more people than in the past and unless it stops growing, eventually the number of wizards will be in millions no matter how hard it will be.

1 minute ago, CritterKeeper said:

It's also possible that these three will argue about what they should recommend until Van is finally persuaded one way or the other, only to discover that Will wasn't actually after their decision, only hearing their reasoning, and will end up doing the opposite of what Van decided.

It is technically possible there will be two seers. It can't be vote. Unless it's something like "you will be kept here until you all agree on one decision".

 

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Perhaps the opt-in vs opt-out change I suggested before could be all-inclusive?  If you opt out, you are safe from magic spells, weapons, and creatures, and their consequences, but you can't learn magic or use magic items yourself.  If you opt in, then you might be able to build up your magic power through diligent (or difficult, overly complex, and fairly ridiculous) work, but you will be vulnerable to all the aforementioned dangers, likely from the moment you opt in, making the start of training especially dangerous.

It would be an interesting social experiment to see how many people would opt in and how many would opt out.

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16 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I don't think the knowledge would be forgotten. In today's word, losing something this important is unlikely to happen. It MIGHT've happened in past, yes, but if magic reveals itself now, it will be forever.

I do suppose there will be some changes preventing magic becoming too widespread, but not enough to cause wizards and magic users to die out. For start, magic likely can't remove hereditary magical talents. It can make harder to awaken them though, so only determined people will became magic users in future and the number won't go so high. Relatively.

... because there are a lot more people than in the past and unless it stops growing, eventually the number of wizards will be in millions no matter how hard it will be.

Well it may not be forgotten but if magic made it harder for new magic users to awaken, then at some point magic use will become rare occurrences again, heck magic users are probably still rare enough or at least don't have their cover completely blown yet, at the moment it's just been revealed to the world that magic exists and that there are magical beings living on Earth, but it's unknown how many people can use it and aside from the global lightshow, most of the publicly known incidents happened in Moperville. If many of the magic users and organizations like the Paranormal Division kept out of the public eye, then maybe things would calm down after a while and people could be made to believe that these incidents were due to some once in a millennia phenomenon, that it had happened in the past and may happen again far into the future, but will eventually taper off.

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1 hour ago, WR...S said:

I'm surprised Arthur doesn't already know.  I guess Edward's embarrassment is enough to override "full disclosure"?  That's... horrifying.

Tedd didn't tell his dad about his spell.

 

25 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

It's possible the change in magic the allows it to be revealed would mean Will is actually compromising, and letting magic become more widely used.

Yeah. It's probably taking into account the circumstances of the tipping point, specifically "Fancy magic, fire and noise, all outdone, by humanity's toys". Magic probably realises that if it doesn't compromise, technology will make magic obsolete.

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7 minutes ago, partner555 said:

Tedd didn't tell his dad about his spell.

No, but his dad is well aware that Tedd makes a habit of transforming into a woman.  Now, whether it's as bad as Tedd fears and his dad is mortified by this, or whether he's been protecting his son's privacy by not reporting his using the TFG and watches to gender-swap, remains to be seen.

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2 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

No, but his dad is well aware that Tedd makes a habit of transforming into a woman.  Now, whether it's as bad as Tedd fears and his dad is mortified by this, or whether he's been protecting his son's privacy by not reporting his using the TFG and watches to gender-swap, remains to be seen.

I think Edward only reports abilities, not personality traits, with Grace before the end of Painted Black a special exception. Box never said anything about Edward reporting personality traits.

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Tedd's only had the spell for seven days, and he's used his gadgets to become female an awful lot. I'm pretty sure Edward reported on all the gadgets, but didn't tell anyone at work about his son's frequently becoming his daughter.

Partner555 posted pretty much the same thought while I was posting the first edition However, I have an additional thought. I don't think Edward has told Tedd about Lavender.

Edited by Tom Sewell
missed a day

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

He even found something about reset!

Maybe someone told him... someone who likes white suits and fedoras. Take a look back at the meeting between Assistant Director Leifeld and Arthur. Why are they talking in a gym? Arthur works for Leifeld; if he wanted a confidential meeting, why not meet in one of their offices? Looks kind of like this scheme to let magic reset is just between them, doesn't it? Well, them and a that guy who likes white suits and fedoras.

If this turns out to be true, and Raven finds out...

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2 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Maybe someone told him... someone who likes white suits and fedoras. Take a look back at the meeting between Assistant Director Leifeld and Arthur. Why are they talking in a gym? Arthur works for Leifeld; if he wanted a confidential meeting, why not meet in one of their offices? Looks kind of like this scheme to let magic reset is just between them, doesn't it? Well, them and a that guy who likes white suits and fedoras.

If this turns out to be true, and Raven finds out...

Leifeld was assured by Arthur it would work, but he had doubts during that gym scene you mentioned, so Leifeld has that going for him.

Also, I'm not sure he knows how Arthur knows if the source is Voltaire.

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2 hours ago, WR...S said:

I'm surprised Arthur doesn't already know.  I guess Edward's embarrassment is enough to override "full disclosure"?  That's... horrifying.

Or maybe Mr. Verres thinks his kid's sexuality and gender issues are none of Arthur's business.

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5 minutes ago, partner555 said:

Also, I'm not sure he knows how Arthur knows if the source is Voltaire.

Gee, you think the man who taught Edward how to lie to the public wouldn't be able to lie to Leifeld? Arthur could be absolutely convinced he's doing the right thing, and if he is and he thinks revealing his real source would hurt his chances of getting that magic reset, he'll lie like the most expensive rug you can imagine, flying carpets included.

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The 'if any' part implies there have been cases of magic changing and there being no eligible seers, which is kind of concerning given that WoM doesn't really understand corporeal beings that well. Also this sort of leads to an explanation as to why magic on the other half of the Moperverse is out in the public. Some time in their past, a Seer managed to convince their Magic to become more public during a change.

7 hours ago, Scotty said:
7 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I don't think the knowledge would be forgotten. In today's word, losing something this important is unlikely to happen. It MIGHT've happened in past, yes, but if magic reveals itself now, it will be forever.

I do suppose there will be some changes preventing magic becoming too widespread, but not enough to cause wizards and magic users to die out. For start, magic likely can't remove hereditary magical talents. It can make harder to awaken them though, so only determined people will became magic users in future and the number won't go so high. Relatively.

... because there are a lot more people than in the past and unless it stops growing, eventually the number of wizards will be in millions no matter how hard it will be.

Well it may not be forgotten but if magic made it harder for new magic users to awaken, then at some point magic use will become rare occurrences again, heck magic users are probably still rare enough or at least don't have their cover completely blown yet, at the moment it's just been revealed to the world that magic exists and that there are magical beings living on Earth, but it's unknown how many people can use it and aside from the global lightshow, most of the publicly known incidents happened in Moperville. If many of the magic users and organizations like the Paranormal Division kept out of the public eye, then maybe things would calm down after a while and people could be made to believe that these incidents were due to some once in a millennia phenomenon, that it had happened in the past and may happen again far into the future, but will eventually taper off.

If Magic goes public, the Paranormal Division and similar organizations might have trouble staying out of the public eye. People are going to want to know what law enforcement agencies (or maybe even militaries) are doing to protect them from magical threats, including people in government that have oversight of said law enforcement agencies. The Paranormal Division might be compelled by the higher ups in the FBI to address the public's concerns and actually get out there and do their jobs. And if the number of public incidents increases, then the Paranormal Division is going to have to increase recruitment to handle them (Given how rare magic users currently seem to be, with the exception of Moperville, the office in Moperville, might very well be the Midwest office), which would mean they would have to train the recruits in how to use magic. Unless they want to take on that burden all by themselves, they would need to include magical training courses at some law enforcement academies (which said academies might want anyway to better prepare their students for that risk in the line of duty),  reducing the chances of magic use tapering off.

6 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:
7 hours ago, hkmaly said:

He even found something about reset!

Maybe someone told him... someone who likes white suits and fedoras. Take a look back at the meeting between Assistant Director Leifeld and Arthur. Why are they talking in a gym? Arthur works for Leifeld; if he wanted a confidential meeting, why not meet in one of their offices? Looks kind of like this scheme to let magic reset is just between them, doesn't it? Well, them and a that guy who likes white suits and fedoras.

If this turns out to be true, and Raven finds out...

Given that Arthur was objecting that the gym was not the most secure place to discuss matters, it seems that Leifeld was the one that insisted on meeting there. Maybe he didn't want the meeting to interrupt his workout schedule? He seems like the kind of guy that would care a lot about keeping a consistent workout schedule.

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18 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

No, but his dad is well aware that Tedd makes a habit of transforming into a woman.  Now, whether it's as bad as Tedd fears and his dad is mortified by this, or whether he's been protecting his son's privacy by not reporting his using the TFG and watches to gender-swap, remains to be seen.

Thing is, Edward got the Object Oriented TFG from William and Gillian in what appeared to be an non-official meeting, Edward might not have reported their request for human forms. If Edward would have to report Tedd's use of the TFG, he'd have to say how he got the TFG in the first place, and if he didn't trust any of his colleagues with the use of the TFG, would he trust them with the knowledge of it's existence?

Just now, Stature said:

Van is not anymore angry at Arthur, but at the voice. Cheeky.

Van's probably going to be the issue here, I get the feeling that he's too young to really understand what's happening, he has that "magic is cool and my mum can kick your butt with it!" attitude mixed with the self centeredness of a child, he could have been easily manipulated by someone like Voltaire as well. Arthur is more about tradition and keeping things status quo, he's soo used to secrecy that he'd probably want to keep things that way even if it meant wiping the slate. Tedd's kinda in the middle, she wanted magic to be public and might still, but she might also consider what people like Arthur and Edward have said about it being too dangerous for everyone to be able to use magic. But also Tedd might be the one to suggest an alternative that would make everyone happy.

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Keep in mind that Van is still holding on to Tedd, even if Van looked a bit dubious in the third panel. Maybe Tedd's crossing his arm while laying down the law reminds him of Mum?

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I kind of expect Tedd to argue for opening up but with an "informed consent" restriction.

Of course, I didn't expect Tedd to be so open about her identity that Arthur would figure out this quickly that she's Edward's son. (That is a weird way to end that sentence.) Not saying it would be smart of Tedd to be secretive, just that I expected it of her.

(It's also kind of weird that in the past 5 to 20 years Arthur hasn't worked with anyone other than Edward who has a kid about Tedd's age - plus or minus several years, because when people haven't seen a child for several years they tend to underestimate how old that child currently is.)

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5 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

(It's also kind of weird that in the past 5 to 20 years Arthur hasn't worked with anyone other than Edward who has a kid about Tedd's age - plus or minus several years, because when people haven't seen a child for several years they tend to underestimate how old that child currently is.)

Clandestine organizations aren't big on Take Your Daughter To Work Days.

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1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:
1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

(It's also kind of weird that in the past 5 to 20 years Arthur hasn't worked with anyone other than Edward who has a kid about Tedd's age - plus or minus several years, because when people haven't seen a child for several years they tend to underestimate how old that child currently is.)

Clandestine organizations aren't big on Take Your Daughter To Work Days.

Tedd did initially feel that Arthur looked familiar when Arthur was first introduced to us, so Tedd wasn't too young when he saw Arthur, so Arthur should be able to remember who Tedd is. Wolf and Cranium aren't married (yet) and it's been suggested that Assistant Director Leifeld might not be into women, so there just might not be that many members of the Paranormal Division with family so it probably narrows things down quite a bit. I would also imagine that Arthur had known Noriko before she left Edward and maybe could tell the resemblance in Tedd? I dunno, Dan did confirm on twitter that he drew Van's eye's like Tedd's so whether Tedd or Arthur notices that certainly remains to be seen, or maybe Dan's really trolling us with the "Van is Tedd's sibling!" theory.

 

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2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Tedd did initially feel that Arthur looked familiar when Arthur was first introduced to us

Yes, but Tedd didn't remember him right away and wasn't really sure. I'm guessing it should have been before Tedd got to play with the TG gun. And we don't know how long it took Tedd to adapt the gun to work well on humans; apparently we weren't included in the target market by the original designer-manufacturer. (Humans? Why would we go for that market? They haven't even made it out of their solar system yet. And they certainly don't need any help with fertility! They breed like womp rats!)

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16 hours ago, Scotty said:

Well it may not be forgotten but if magic made it harder for new magic users to awaken, then at some point magic use will become rare occurrences again, heck magic users are probably still rare enough or at least don't have their cover completely blown yet

I don't think number of magic users will go down.

15 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

I don't think Edward has told Tedd about Lavender.

I'm not sure he already noticed himself. He seems to have quite good capacity in self-delusion in this regard.

15 hours ago, partner555 said:
15 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Maybe someone told him... someone who likes white suits and fedoras. Take a look back at the meeting between Assistant Director Leifeld and Arthur. Why are they talking in a gym? Arthur works for Leifeld; if he wanted a confidential meeting, why not meet in one of their offices? Looks kind of like this scheme to let magic reset is just between them, doesn't it? Well, them and a that guy who likes white suits and fedoras.

If this turns out to be true, and Raven finds out...

Leifeld was assured by Arthur it would work, but he had doubts during that gym scene you mentioned, so Leifeld has that going for him.

Also, I'm not sure he knows how Arthur knows if the source is Voltaire.

I don't believe ARTHUR knows his source is Voltaire. I keep repeating, Voltaire didn't needed to tell him personally, he could just arranged that he will read the right book ...

And I don't think Leifeld knows all the details. Arthur is keeping lot to himself.

4 hours ago, Scotty said:
6 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:
6 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

(It's also kind of weird that in the past 5 to 20 years Arthur hasn't worked with anyone other than Edward who has a kid about Tedd's age - plus or minus several years, because when people haven't seen a child for several years they tend to underestimate how old that child currently is.)

Clandestine organizations aren't big on Take Your Daughter To Work Days.

Tedd did initially feel that Arthur looked familiar when Arthur was first introduced to us, so Tedd wasn't too young when he saw Arthur, so Arthur should be able to remember who Tedd is. Wolf and Cranium aren't married (yet) and it's been suggested that Assistant Director Leifeld might not be into women, so there just might not be that many members of the Paranormal Division with family so it probably narrows things down quite a bit.

DGB should be bigger than what we were shown, but it may also mostly consist of younger people (who logically don't have child Tedd's age). Also yes, I would totally assume there are others but Arthur recognized Tedd. Despite the uncertainty about gender.

1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:
4 hours ago, Scotty said:

Tedd did initially feel that Arthur looked familiar when Arthur was first introduced to us

Yes, but Tedd didn't remember him right away and wasn't really sure. I'm guessing it should have been before Tedd got to play with the TG gun. And we don't know how long it took Tedd to adapt the gun to work well on humans; apparently we weren't included in the target market by the original designer-manufacturer. (Humans? Why would we go for that market? They haven't even made it out of their solar system yet. And they certainly don't need any help with fertility! They breed like womp rats!)

I think the TF gun is using unrealistically convenient transformation laws of EGS universe and don't actually need to be specifically programmed to every species. Note that FV1 is something which CAME WITH THE GUN - part of original programming. Quite likely, the FV1 settings can be used on multiple species. FV5, not so much.

8 hours ago, Scotty said:

Thing is, Edward got the Object Oriented TFG from William and Gillian in what appeared to be an non-official meeting, Edward might not have reported their request for human forms. If Edward would have to report Tedd's use of the TFG, he'd have to say how he got the TFG in the first place, and if he didn't trust any of his colleagues with the use of the TFG, would he trust them with the knowledge of it's existence?

Existence? Yes. Abilities? That's question.

While I did assumed that someone is mirroring Tedd's research and was wondering why they don't point out how it doesn't work, given this note about not trusting DGB, it IS possible that Edward is not reporting everything, or is TECHNICALLY reporting everything but made sure (while head of paranormal) that the reports wouldn't really be studied so well and there is noone trying to replicate that research ...

Also, I think that he DOES trust Agent Wolf and Agent Cranium, BUT those are field agents, not exactly qualified to work on alien technology.

 

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