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The Old Hack

Story Wednesday January 31, 2018

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1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Despite his paranormal duties, following Noriko's departure, Edward attempted to give Tedd the most "normal" childhood possible.

Does this include him allowing Tedd to play with alien technology with great potential of endangering national security? I would say Tedd's childhood wasn't exactly normal.

7 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:
2 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

General immaturity, withdrawing from the world rather than coming to terms with it.  Being a girl rather than dating one.  Again, all I am suggesting is "cause for concern".  Verres expresses disapproval but does not at any point attempt to stop the actions he disapproves of.

Hm. I can see what you mean, but Tedd has gone way past these traits by now. He has had a girlfriend for quite a while now. He is more and more open to the world even when you take his occasional obsessions into science (or SCIENCE!) into account. This may be the explanation but if it is I hope Mr. Verres begins to show signs of noticing before long.

His girlfriend is shapeshifting part-alien with very abnormal childhood. Edward might have concerns that Tedd will not be able to get "normal" girlfriend in case it wouldn't work with Grace for some reason.

Remember that Edward sees his son as bomb. He wants to do what is best for him, but probably isn't exactly sure of what that would be, given his experience is mostly in "abnormal" areas. He may be attempting to make Tedd "normal" based on assumption that if it works for majority of people, it should work for Tedd. That assumption is invalid, of course, as Tedd is gender-fluid, which definitely isn't major ... not speaking about him being seer. Also, he is basing his idea on what is normal on unreliable sources.

18 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

Tedd himself suggested it to (presumed cis straight at the time) Elliot -- transform into a gorgeous woman in front of a mirror and, ah, at the least pose, possibly explore in other ways too.  Same reason many cis straight guys choose to play a female avatar in certain games, "I'd rather look at a sexy girl's butt on the screen than some dude's!"

Note that Tedd WAS using explanations like "it's like a vacation" before, as he didn't understood it himself. And probably WAS doing this "other exploration". And I would say that staying in that state WOULD be cause of concern, although in little different way than Edward assumes: just like Nanase insisting she's straight and just need to find the correct guy, if Tedd would insist he's cis and just finds sexy being woman, it would mean they are avoiding truth and lying to themselves. On the other hand, what is the "correct" speed for self-discovery?

8 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

He once looked at me funny after I finished playing a female toon and I came up with "whose butt would you rather look at?" on the spot without ever having read it anywhere.

After looking at female butt for hours, it doesn't seem like that hard idea ...

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6 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

After looking at female butt for hours, it doesn't seem like that hard idea ...

I went through a half-second of thinking "Now that you mention it, it does sound strange", too.

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20 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Remember that Edward sees his son as bomb.

That was strictly Ellen that saw Tedd as a bomb that shouldn't be kicked. Edward was worried that Tedd would withdraw himself again should he find out the circumstanced of Edward and Noriko's divorce. Of course Tedd has a pretty good idea why they divorced now, not a complete picture, but believing it was because of him giving the wand a false negative might have been the worst case scenario.

28 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

His girlfriend is shapeshifting part-alien with very abnormal childhood. Edward might have concerns that Tedd will not be able to get "normal" girlfriend in case it wouldn't work with Grace for some reason.

I think Edward sees how good Grace is for Tedd, he was initially against Tedd getting too involved with Grace while the threat of Damien was still out there, but after Damien was gone, Edward saw how they were together and accepted that. Pretty certain Edward considers Grace family by now and is just waiting for the day for it to be official.

But in regards to Tedd's maturity and what what's perceived as immature, it is a pretty stark contrast that Tedd would be doing things like dating a girl, showing responsibility, dedication to his work, that fact that his group of friends has expanded greatly, a year ago Tedd's only real friend was Elliot, now there's Grace, Ellen, Justin, Susan. Sarah's not just there because Elliot's there, and Nanase isn't avoiding her cousin. And yet Tedd transforming into a girl has persisted for almost 5 years, Edward might have expected the transforming to have been because of Tedd's lack of friends and difficulty socializing, but he doesn't have those issues anymore so that probably what has Edward so perplexed.

44 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

 On the other hand, what is the "correct" speed for self-discovery?

Who know's how long it would have been if Grace wasn't there to assist.

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1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

Tedd himself suggested it to (presumed cis straight at the time) Elliot -- transform into a gorgeous woman in front of a mirror and, ah, at the least pose, possibly explore in other ways too.  Same reason many cis straight guys choose to play a female avatar in certain games, "I'd rather look at a sexy girl's butt on the screen than some dude's!"

I still entirely fail to see how it is concerning. Maybe I am using the wrong version of that thing which supposedly defines mental illness. *shrugs*

1 hour ago, Vorlonagent said:

There are some guys for whom the concept of men playing female characters (and the reverse) grinds their mental gears.  My brother may have been/may be one of those.   He once looked at me funny after I finished playing a female toon and I came up with "whose butt would you rather look at?" on the spot without ever having read it anywhere.

I handled it rather differently in a similar situation. I just looked at the guy in question and told him, "When I want your opinion of how I am supposed to play the games I like, I'll be sure to ask for it." He didn't comment on it again. Then again, I tend to get rude and unpleasant when I am pushed.

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There is no need to be rude and unpleasant while you are destroying the people who push you.

After all, the only people who would push you are either suicidal, in which case you are doing them a favor, or they are idiots, in which case you are doing the human species a Darwinian favor.

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7 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

I still entirely fail to see how it is concerning. Maybe I am using the wrong version of that thing which supposedly defines mental illness. *shrugs*

I never said there was anything concerning about it.  You asked why a cis male would want to assume a female form, I replied with a reason that had been given in canon.

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9 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Remember that Edward sees his son as bomb.

That was strictly Ellen that saw Tedd as a bomb that shouldn't be kicked. Edward was worried that Tedd would withdraw himself again should he find out the circumstanced of Edward and Noriko's divorce. Of course Tedd has a pretty good idea why they divorced now, not a complete picture, but believing it was because of him giving the wand a false negative might have been the worst case scenario.

The metaphor was Ellen's, but she was just describing what Edward said.

12 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I think Edward sees how good Grace is for Tedd, he was initially against Tedd getting too involved with Grace while the threat of Damien was still out there, but after Damien was gone, Edward saw how they were together and accepted that. Pretty certain Edward considers Grace family by now and is just waiting for the day for it to be official.

Not sure where it was related to Damien, but remember when Edward explicitly warned Tedd against having sex with Grace in her human form? It MIGHT've been just his talent for exposition activating by mistake ... but maybe he was actually TRYING to make Tedd have sex with half-human Grace because he considered it better alternative that what he assumed Tedd is doing with herself.

21 minutes ago, Scotty said:

And yet Tedd transforming into a girl has persisted for almost 5 years, Edward might have expected the transforming to have been because of Tedd's lack of friends and difficulty socializing, but he doesn't have those issues anymore so that probably what has Edward so perplexed.

Yes, perplexed might be the right word ... "He's got girlfriend and he's seeing Sarah regularly and they are often naked in basement and he still transforms to girl? Why?"

22 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

On the other hand, what is the "correct" speed for self-discovery?

Who know's how long it would have been if Grace wasn't there to assist.

Unhealthily long, I would say.

 

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2 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

I never said there was anything concerning about it.  You asked why a cis male would want to assume a female form, I replied with a reason that had been given in canon.

I was replying to Vorlonagent who said that there might be something concerning about it and failed to realise that you might not be addressing that particular question. And I still don't see what should be concerning about it. *scratches head* Sorry about the confusion.

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1 minute ago, hkmaly said:

The metaphor was Ellen's, but she was just describing what Edward said.

I think she was going by Elliot's memories of what Tedd used to be like and happening to be on the same page as Edward rather than just taking Edward's word for it.

7 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Not sure where it was related to Damien, but remember when Edward explicitly warned Tedd against having sex with Grace in her human form? It MIGHT've been just his talent for exposition activating by mistake ... but maybe he was actually TRYING to make Tedd have sex with half-human Grace because he considered it better alternative that what he assumed Tedd is doing with herself.

I'm not really sure that's the case, of course I've got nothing to counter it since some fathers would rather buy their son a playboy magazine* than sit down and talk about the birds and the bees, but I doubt Edward would have intentionally put Grace in that position.

(*or accidentally left a box of old playboy magazines in an easy to spot location in the basement)

12 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Yes, perplexed might be the right word ... "He's got girlfriend and he's seeing Sarah regularly and they are often naked in basement and he still transforms to girl? Why?"

I don't think Edward is aware of the basement nudity. But if the transforming was "like a vacation" as Tedd insisted, Edward's question would be "why does he still need to take these vacations?"

15 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Unhealthily long, I would say.

And that might be what Edward's worried about, he might not know exactly why Tedd does it, but if he feels that even Tedd doesn't know why Tedd does it, that could be concerning.

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6 minutes ago, Scotty said:
29 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Unhealthily long, I would say.

And that might be what Edward's worried about, he might not know exactly why Tedd does it, but if he feels that even Tedd doesn't know why Tedd does it, that could be concerning.

Except he failed to make the next step of trying to actually help him find the reason. Unless it was him who pushed Grace in direction of right web pages ...

8 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I'm not really sure that's the case, of course I've got nothing to counter it since some fathers would rather buy their son a playboy magazine* than sit down and talk about the birds and the bees, but I doubt Edward would have intentionally put Grace in that position.

(*or accidentally left a box of old playboy magazines in an easy to spot location in the basement)

Maybe he's convinced Grace wouldn't mind, or that Tedd won't be forcing Grace if she would mind ... ?

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20 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Except he failed to make the next step of trying to actually help him find the reason. Unless it was him who pushed Grace in direction of right web pages ...

I'm leaning towards failing to take the next step, even recruiting Grace for this would seem like the wrong way about it.

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51 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Like trying to describe the start of the First World War.

This reminds me of Peppermint Patty getting a history test. She reads the test question, which goes, "Explain World War Two." She stares at it in disbelief a moment and then reads on, "You may use both sides of sheet."

Our high school history teacher used this strip as part of a collage he had made to introduce us to the subject.

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59 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

This reminds me of Peppermint Patty getting a history test. She reads the test question, which goes, "Explain World War Two." She stares at it in disbelief a moment and then reads on, "You may use both sides of sheet."

Our high school history teacher used this strip as part of a collage he had made to introduce us to the subject.

And Grace barely scratched the surface of it too...

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2 minutes ago, Scotty said:

But the best description I ever heard of WW2 may be found on the second video of this SF Debris page, starting at about 2 mins 24 seconds into the video. I apologise for being unable to directly link to that moment but I add that it will be well worth investing the two or three minutes of time in watching this masterpiece.

1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Like trying to describe the start of the First World War.

Come to think of it, Barbara Tuchman made a quite decent attempt at this in her Pulitzer-winning The Guns of August. I can only highly recommend it.

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I think Edward's disapproval of Tedd spending time as a girl isn't born of a lack of knowledge, but instead of too wide of a scope. He's worried about how people that don't know Tedd will treat him because he's genderfluid. I don't really have any evidence of this other than when Edward mused about how he should have given Tedd a gender neutral name. To me at least, it wouldn't make sense for someone who considers spending significant amounts of time as the opposite gender harmful to have that thought. Edward certainly worries about things undoing all the healing Tedd has gone through, like when he tried to convince Nanase to not talk to Tedd about Noriko. Similar concerns could explain why Edward hasn't sat down and talked this out with Tedd.  Though if this hypothesis is true, then the twist of cruel irony is that because he is worried about all the pain and grief Tedd could get from people reacting to his genderfluidity, Edward is causing Tedd much pain and grief by reacting to his genderfluidity. Edward Verres is a man whose job often asks him to consider the wider picture implications of events and actions, and lets him see many of the terrible things that happen in the world, but a view of the wider picture often blinds a person to the smaller details.

 

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13 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Also, forget the 2.24 timestamp. That was wrong. I should have put 3 minutes 10 seconds instead. Arrrrrrghhh.

You can boil WW2 down to "Too much hubris on one side, not enough on the other."  But then you have to unpack it again to make it explain anything.

15 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

I was replying to Vorlonagent who said that there might be something concerning about it and failed to realise that you might not be addressing that particular question. And I still don't see what should be concerning about it. *scratches head* Sorry about the confusion.

The idea is Tedd's emotional development was crippled by Noriko leaving.  Arguably spending time as a girl might not be doing him any favors in moving toward emotional growth and maturity.  But at the same time Tedd came out of his shell in order to have the chance to work with the TF gun to begin with, so Verres also doesn't do Tedd any favors by taking it away.  Verres also has a gruff demeanor in general, which by itself could adversely affect Tedd.
 

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2 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Arguably spending time as a girl might not be doing him any favors in moving toward emotional growth and maturity.

I don't see why it wouldn't. Time spent as a girl would allow just as much accumulation of experience and understanding as time spent as a boy would. In fact, it might even widen perspective -- in fact, it would pretty much be guaranteed to. I am still not getting it.

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1 minute ago, The Old Hack said:

I don't see why it wouldn't. Time spent as a girl would allow just as much accumulation of experience and understanding as time spent as a boy would. In fact, it might even widen perspective -- in fact, it would pretty much be guaranteed to. I am still not getting it.

Arguably not all experience is equal.  It's not that time spent as a girl must be bad, but that it could be and from there how Ed Verres might perceive it.

People have a remarkable ability to be open or closed to new experience.  In the case of a cisgender Tedd, does being a girl built exactly to any and all fethish quirks improve his ability relate to women or make it easier to objectify them?   Tedd himself gives mixed signals.  One the one hand, Tedd has a history of modding video games in lewd ways.  On the other,Tedd also has a history of trying to disable the "X-Ray" function in his glasses.

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19 hours ago, Scotty said:
19 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Except he failed to make the next step of trying to actually help him find the reason. Unless it was him who pushed Grace in direction of right web pages ...

I'm leaning towards failing to take the next step, even recruiting Grace for this would seem like the wrong way about it.

Wouldn't be optimal but I wouldn't call it wrong either. Grace MIGHT be able to say it in way Edward can't.

19 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

This reminds me of Peppermint Patty getting a history test. She reads the test question, which goes, "Explain World War Two." She stares at it in disbelief a moment and then reads on, "You may use both sides of sheet."

Our high school history teacher used this strip as part of a collage he had made to introduce us to the subject.

"Describe universe. Give three examples."

 

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29 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Arguably not all experience is equal.  It's not that time spent as a girl must be bad, but that it could be and from there how Ed Verres might perceive it.

People have a remarkable ability to be open or closed to new experience.  In the case of a cisgender Tedd, does being a girl built exactly to any and all fethish quirks improve his ability relate to women or make it easier to objectify them?   Tedd himself gives mixed signals.  One the one hand, Tedd has a history of modding video games in lewd ways.  On the other,Tedd also has a history of trying to disable the "X-Ray" function in his glasses.

The argument is that "it can't be healthy." And I still do not see it. Experience as a girl could be both good and bad. Arguably, so can experience as a boy. But focusing on the girl experience, that explicitly goes against "it can't be healthy" as there is a chance of good experiences that may be learned from as opposed to purely harmful and damaging ones. Mind you, I can see that from a purely pessimistic viewpoint it might barely float -- but it would still be based on ignorance.

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On 2/5/2018 at 6:02 PM, Vorlonagent said:

Maybe 2 1/2 hours the way YOU drive....  :)

Most CA freeway speeds tend to be 65 MPH.  If IL highways are standardized on 55, that changes things.

During rush hour, nobody is going to be going 65 in California. Traffic congestion must be taken into account, and the first and fifth most congested traffic areas in the WORLD are the Los Angeles area and San Francisco area.

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