• Announcements

    • Robin

      Welcome!   03/05/2016

      Welcome, everyone, to the new 910CMX Community Forums. I'm still working on getting them running, so things may change.  If you're a 910 Comic creator and need your forum recreated, let me know and I'll get on it right away.  I'll do my best to make this new place as fun as the last one!
partner555

EGS: Then, and Now

Recommended Posts

This thread is for all your thoughts on how EGS changed and developed over the years.

I'll start. From the beginning, Ellen was a female duplicate of Elliot. Reading the comic today, it's all too easy to forget that because the two act like actual brother and sister. Hell, if new readers started reading from Bringing Silly Back, they'd probably be surprised by all the mentions of Ellen being a duplicate, or attribute that to a weird way of saying twins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One change that disappointed me when I noticed it happening years ago was the shift from a focus on light-hearted sci-fi with fantasy elements to mostly just fantasy, as the TFG and Uryuom/Chimera transformations were reveled to be magic, and Uryuoms and other sci-fi elements faded into the background. I'm still hoping that one day we'll get more stories focused on Uryoms and Chimeras.

A related change was Tedd's transformation from the "mad scientist" presumed to have invented the TFG to "merely" a skilled programmer who happened to have a very powerful device to play with. Subsequent events, including it being revealed he's a wand maker and seer have restored his position as someone particularly special, and his construction of the glove, watches, and other magi-tech devices has restored some of his mad science cred, but I still miss my initial impression of him a little bit.

Another element seen early on that was dropped was the casual public use of magic (Nanase being one of the biggest offenders); I always thought that was neat, and I'm hoping that the Will of Magic will allow magic to become/remain public knowledge so that sort of thing might again be possible.

Just so this post isn't just complaining about changes I didn't like, I want to mention I love how Dan has developed Tedd's personality over time, ditching the early cliche obnoxious traits and embracing his gender-fluid nature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

Another element seen early on that was dropped was the casual public use of magic (Nanase being one of the biggest offenders);

What were your thoughts on Diane bringing that up?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, partner555 said:
1 hour ago, ChronosCat said:

Another element seen early on that was dropped was the casual public use of magic (Nanase being one of the biggest offenders);

What were your thoughts on Diane bringing that up?

I thought it was cool that Dan acknowledged it rather than just pretending it didn't happen. (But then, that wasn't the first time Dan acknowledged something from the early days of the comic that he had long abandoned; the Hammers even got their own arc. Still, I suspect there are limits to Dan's willingness to acknowledge the wackier aspects of early EGS in-story; I doubt we'll be seeing Matt and Rat again...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

(Still, I suspect there are limits to Dan's willingness to acknowledge the wackier aspects of early EGS in-story; I doubt we'll be seeing Matt and Rat again...)

Dan has said that the weirdness and plotholes of 2002 live in their own little world and that he is never going to try to fix them all. He might address some of them individually but there are so many that he just chalks them down to inexperience as a writer and basically lets them stay as warning examples.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, partner555 said:

This thread is for all your thoughts on how EGS changed and developed over the years.

I'll start. From the beginning, Ellen was a female duplicate of Elliot. Reading the comic today, it's all too easy to forget that because the two act like actual brother and sister. Hell, if new readers started reading from Bringing Silly Back, they'd probably be surprised by all the mentions of Ellen being a duplicate, or attribute that to a weird way of saying twins.

I know I was confused at first...

Well I've said it before, I vaguely remember looking at the comic years ago, I dunno exactly when but I'm pretty sure I was put off by Dan's art style at the time. Then at the end of 2014 I clicked a link in the DoA comments that took me to a page in the End of an Era arc, I started reading from there, I saw Ellen and Elliot talking and Ellen mentioning having Elliot's memories and somehow thinking that Elliot was doing an internal monologue and Ellen's just a visual representation (because they were wearing the same clothes). Then as I kept read, it became clear that Ellen was an actual person and I got confused as to how she'd have Elliot's memories and was like "that's it, I'm starting from the beginning!"

3 hours ago, mlooney said:

Susan.   Her change over the years is rather major.

Tedd's changed a fair bit too, but yeah I think Susan's had the most character growth, especially with how things have turned out recently.

2 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

I thought it was cool that Dan acknowledged it rather than just pretending it didn't happen. (But then, that wasn't the first time Dan acknowledged something from the early days of the comic that he had long abandoned; the Hammers even got their own arc. Still, I suspect there are limits to Dan's willingness to acknowledge the wackier aspects of early EGS in-story; I doubt we'll be seeing Matt and Rat again...)

I figured that the main reason Nanase would have stopped using her magic in public was because Edward might have asked her to. Then again having her physics teacher express annoyance over breaking the laws of gravity might have been enough to make her tone things down.

Just now, The Old Hack said:

Dan has said that the weirdness and plotholes of 2002 live in their own little world and that he is never going to try to fix them all. He might address some of them individually but there are so many that he just chalks them down to inexperience as a writer and basically lets them stay as warning examples.

That's another big change between then an now, Dan used a lot of gimmicky gags and puns and stuff early on, some of them feel forced compared to today, the story is pretty coherent, it's obvious Dan has thought about all the elements, yeah there are the odd times where he feels the need to extend a scene or something to clarify which I know is annoying to some people because they want Dan to hurry up and get to the juicy part. But rereading after a while, I don't really notice those points and it feels like it belongs and not tacked on. The humour also feels natural and each character has their own sense of humour and it feels natural to them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The overall tone of the comic has shifted several times. When I first got into it, it was mostly a gag strip just enough story to give it some continuity (think things like the hammers, the ASMA dojo, cutaway gags, and the April Fools strips). Before long it morphed into a heavily plot-based story (the second half of Sister, Painted Black), then shifted again to become largely character-based (Grace's Birthday Party), and eventually settled on the tenuous balance that we have today.

 

Also, the cast has expanded tremendously. I'm not just talking about the sheer number of characters. Secondary characters like Raven, Pandora, Rhoda, Ashley, Luke, etc. all receive a lot more focus than they would have in the old days, because the story doesn't just revolve around the original main characters anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Illjwamh said:

Also, the cast has expanded tremendously. I'm not just talking about the sheer number of characters. Secondary characters like Raven, Pandora, Rhoda, Ashley, Luke, etc. all receive a lot more focus than they would have in the old days, because the story doesn't just revolve around the original main characters anymore.

Yeah. The main 8 distinction is becoming less and less important, particularly with Diane's and Ashley's ascension.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Illjwamh said:

The overall tone of the comic has shifted several times. When I first got into it, it was mostly a gag strip just enough story to give it some continuity (think things like the hammers, the ASMA dojo, cutaway gags, and the April Fools strips). Before long it morphed into a heavily plot-based story (the second half of Sister, Painted Black), then shifted again to become largely character-based (Grace's Birthday Party), and eventually settled on the tenuous balance that we have today.

 

Also, the cast has expanded tremendously. I'm not just talking about the sheer number of characters. Secondary characters like Raven, Pandora, Rhoda, Ashley, Luke, etc. all receive a lot more focus than they would have in the old days, because the story doesn't just revolve around the original main characters anymore.

The fact there are little "slice of life" segments throughout the comic, (getting jobs, playing games, watching movies, etc) as well as the side stories in major arcs, makes the comic feel like a living world where there more than just "big bad comes to ruin things and the main characters must stop it".

I'll argue that the main 8 are still the major players in the comic, but there's a supporting cast that's obviously got lives of their own and stories to tell and Dan works them in really well and there are rarely any throwaway characters.

3 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

One change that disappointed me when I noticed it happening years ago was the shift from a focus on light-hearted sci-fi with fantasy elements to mostly just fantasy, as the TFG and Uryuom/Chimera transformations were reveled to be magic, and Uryuoms and other sci-fi elements faded into the background. I'm still hoping that one day we'll get more stories focused on Uryoms and Chimeras.

I forgot to address this in my previous post, but Uryuom Power was stated to be similar to magic, but not actual magic, and the TFG is still sci-fi in that it's tech based on Uryuom Shapeshifting abilities, one could probably technobabble a way that Uryuoms figured out how to artificially generate Uryuom Power for their cosmetic devices. Still it's true that the comic has largely revolved around Magic and maybe when this Sister 3 is done and the aftermath dealt with, Dan might shift to some more sci-fi stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've really enjoyed watching Dan's growing knowledge and depth of understanding about sexuality, gender identity, and how complex everyone can be.  As Dan has learned, so have we, and the world has changed so much in its understanding and acceptance.  I especially love that Dan now incorporates not only all the in-betweens, but the idea that individuals can change and evolve.  Whether you believe that people actually change or believe they learn more about how they've been all along, it's important to show that journey.  Tedd's learning about gender fluidity, Sarah reassessing where she is on the Kinsey scale, Elliot being "gender-meh" now, Susan realizing that doing things with men doesn't appeal to her any more than doing things with women....

Hooray for diversity, and hooray for characters who aren't static.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Scotty said:

I'll argue that the main 8 are still the major players in the comic, but there's a supporting cast that's obviously got lives of their own and stories to tell and Dan works them in really well and there are rarely any throwaway characters.

 

Oh? Consider than in the last two years (that is, 2016 and 2017), ostensibly-main-character Justin has appeared a grand total of 7 times. Even Grace - Grace - has only 37 appearances in that timespan. If we include 2015, their numbers only increase to 21 and 46. That's three years' worth.

Now compare that with the last two years' worth of appearances for Ashley (27) Diane (57), and Pandora (80). If you include 2015 for them, that becomes 84 for Pandora, 87 for Diane, and an insane 111 for Ashley. Plus Charlotte at 45. The so-called "Main 8" are not the story-drivers they once were.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Scotty said:

I forgot to address this in my previous post, but Uryuom Power was stated to be similar to magic, but not actual magic, and the TFG is still sci-fi in that it's tech based on Uryuom Shapeshifting abilities, one could probably technobabble a way that Uryuoms figured out how to artificially generate Uryuom Power for their cosmetic devices. Still it's true that the comic has largely revolved around Magic and maybe when this Sister 3 is done and the aftermath dealt with, Dan might shift to some more sci-fi stuff.

The Emissary says Uryuom power is magic, just a different set of rules than humans, and too intrinsic to their nature for the rules to change: http://www.egscomics.com/index.php?id=1833

26 minutes ago, Illjwamh said:

Oh? Consider than in the last two years (that is, 2016 and 2017), ostensibly-main-character Justin has appeared a grand total of 7 times. Even Grace - Grace - has only 37 appearances in that timespan. If we include 2015, their numbers only increase to 21 and 46. That's three years' worth.

Now compare that with the last two years' worth of appearances for Ashley (27) Diane (57), and Pandora (80). If you include 2015 for them, that becomes 84 for Pandora, 87 for Diane, and an insane 111 for Ashley. Plus Charlotte at 45. The so-called "Main 8" are not the story-drivers they once were.

But we're still calling them Main 8 since they're the 8 Edward is willing to share info with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think that's why. I think it's because those are the 8 who fought the Goo (the climax of the first major story arc), and more importantly because those were the 8 who were at Grace's birthday party. However, both of those arcs happened over a decade ago. There hasn't been one since where all of them have come together.

Yes, while it is true that each storyline still features at least one or more of that group, there are others, as I pointed out, who have just as big an impact on the story nowadays. A person who started reading three years ago and never bothered to look through the archives might not even know who Justin is, but they'll know Diane, and Ashley, and Pandora, and Charlotte.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

Oh? Consider than in the last two years (that is, 2016 and 2017), ostensibly-main-character Justin has appeared a grand total of 7 times. Even Grace - Grace - has only 37 appearances in that timespan. If we include 2015, their numbers only increase to 21 and 46. That's three years' worth.

Now compare that with the last two years' worth of appearances for Ashley (27) Diane (57), and Pandora (80). If you include 2015 for them, that becomes 84 for Pandora, 87 for Diane, and an insane 111 for Ashley. Plus Charlotte at 45. The so-called "Main 8" are not the story-drivers they once were.

Justin has always had a lot less focus than the other "main 8" (or at least that's how I remember it; you're the one actually doing the counting, so feel free to correct me); I think if it weren't for the Goo Battle and Grace's Birthday (as you said) and Mr. Verres pronouncement (as partner555 said) we might not have ever counted him as one of the main characters.

At any rate, I think the beginning of the end for the "Main 8" as a useful concept was all the way back in Sister II. Grace and Ellen had both been through their most important character arcs by this point and had remained in the spotlight in part because showing their first days of school was interesting, and in part because they were the supporting cast to Nanase's story. Sister II marked the end of Nanase's character arc, and while life isn't perfect for her, for all intents and purposes Nanase and Ellen are currently living out their Happily Ever After. And with the novelty of Grace in school having worn off, the focus on Grace ended at that point as well.

Since then, EGS has been a lot less focused, with no one character dominating for long, and with characters other than the "main 8" occasionally getting the spotlight. In retrospect however, the driving force for much of what happened between Sister II and this point in Sister III have been the actions of Pandora and Voltaire - so much so that I suspect in the future I'll think of that section of EGS as the "Pandora arc".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now