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Scotty

Story, Monday February 5, 2018

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8 minutes ago, partner555 said:

Okay, I saw Arthur changing his mind, but I did not see Magic disagreeing.

Magic said the logic was insufficient, which means Tedd's argument isn't enough, there needs to be more than just "A Seer could potentially reveal it to everyone again."

What could be more substantial? Maybe Tedd needs to go into how she wanted to help people defend themself against the bad stuff magic could do, to make it safer, because there's a lot of good magic could do for people, and it can be fun as well. Maybe she can say what's it done for her life, how she grew up believing she wasn't capable of using magic but it didn't stop her from trying to be part of it with her friends and family.

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8 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

WoM said, "This logic is insufficient." That looks like disagreement to me.

Err no, I meant I did not predict magic would think this is insufficient logic.

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This was not supposed to be a simple majority-rule situation,.  But I really did think that if the three of them reached a consensus then magic would respect that opinion.

Does magic want to draw out the argument so that it can be sure of considering all possible details?

Or is magic just waiting for an "answer" that matches what it wanted to do anyway?

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4 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

This was not supposed to be a simple majority-rule situation,.  But I really did think that if the three of them reached a consensus then magic would respect that opinion.

Does magic want to draw out the argument so that it can be sure of considering all possible details?

Or is magic just waiting for an "answer" that matches what it wanted to do anyway?

It has a flair for the dramatic, I'll assume it's drawing out the debate for extra drama.

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9 minutes ago, partner555 said:

Err no, I meant I did not predict magic would think this is insufficient logic.

Ah! Got it. My apologies.

Incidentally, Arthur just confirmed for me that he views magic's existence as dangerous and detrimental to humanity. That "Better the enemy we know" line of his just about said it all. Also, I am going to be very interested to see how the three of them will function now that they are on the same side.

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I have to say I'm impressed with how readily Arthur admitted he was wrong and changed his viewpoint when presented with new information. People should do that more often.

 

The way I see the last panel is not that Magic is rejecting their argument outright, but rather saying they're going to need to work harder to convince it. In other words, this isn't over so easily.

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3 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Ah! Got it. My apologies.

Incidentally, Arthur just confirmed for me that he views magic's existence as dangerous and detrimental to humanity. That "Better the enemy we know" line of his just about said it all. Also, I am going to be very interested to see how the three of them will function now that they are on the same side.

Arthur has pretty much implied all along that his nightmare scenario would be a sudden massive global supervillian crime wave with untold numbers of them popping up fast enough to overwhelm any defenses. Imagine EVERY city on the planet suddenly having dozens of active people like Not-Tengu or the vampires on the rampage in a single night.

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They do not got New Rules, they still count them? :demonicduck:

Like any educator would say, "Please expound on your answer". So I am holding the benefit of the doubt on this one.

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Magic as dynastic makes Lord Tedd's lordship make that much more sense. He's part of a Noble and Most Ancient House, a rarity among rarities, and one of the Thousand, the only ones who can understand the innermost secrets of Magic.

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Just now, wanderingmagus said:

Magic as dynastic makes Lord Tedd's lordship make that much more sense. He's part of a Noble and Most Ancient House, a rarity among rarities, and one of the Thousand, the only ones who can understand the innermost secrets of Magic.

I gotta wonder what happened to the other Seers in Lord Tedd's universe, considering General Shade Tail's manipulations and the fact that Lord Tedd was trying to kill Tedds in other universes make me think that Lord Tedd's possibly the only Seer alive in that universe.

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8 hours ago, partner555 said:
8 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

This was not supposed to be a simple majority-rule situation,.  But I really did think that if the three of them reached a consensus then magic would respect that opinion.

Does magic want to draw out the argument so that it can be sure of considering all possible details?

Or is magic just waiting for an "answer" that matches what it wanted to do anyway?

It has a flair for the dramatic, I'll assume it's drawing out the debate for extra drama.

Perhaps this is also true in the presentation of logic for not changing magic severely.  Perhaps it requires that the logic be dramatic, like some version of Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney.

Magic does seem to have other considerations, so that the logic must has a preponderance of weight to convince it.  Perhaps Magic would entertain questions regarding those considerations, what hurdle must they go over to convince Magic.  For one thing, the presence of more magic-users is going to change the ecology of available magical energy, but in what ways?  Will magical energy become so scarce that waiting for recharging takes days or longer, or will the presence of more magic-users increase the available magical energy (if say, the magic-user himself helps bring it into this world in some way)?  Would this affect the Griffin's Universe's magical energy supply?

4 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

We'd need to start installing those dragon sirens Magus was talking about.

Indeed, how did Magus' universe come to have dragons?  Were the rules always so different, to allow for the birth of dragons in that Universe and the existence of Griffins in their Universe, or did the revealing of Magic lead to more Magic and thus more magical creatures?  If magic is revealed in the Moperville Universe, will that mean more magical creatures?  Unicorns, dragons, gelatinous cubes and the like?  Cause, you know, I could do without the gelatinous cubes.  ;)

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Just now, Tuscahoma said:

Indeed, how did Magus' universe come to have dragons?  Were the rules always so different, to allow for the birth of dragons in that Universe and the existence of Griffins in their Universe, or did the revealing of Magic lead to more Magic and thus more magical creatures?  If magic is revealed in the Moperville Universe, will that mean more magical creatures?  Unicorns, dragons, gelatinous cubes and the like?  Cause, you know, I could do without the gelatinous cubes.  ;)

There used to be dragons in the main world, as well as magical lion bears, my guess would be that after the last reset there might have been a culling of magical creatures or maybe they were sent to the other half of the world? It's complete speculation as to what happened to them but the lack of them in present time definitely means something happened to them.

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So, Arthur doesn't like american almost-noble dynasties as Kennedys?

9 hours ago, Scotty said:
9 hours ago, partner555 said:

Okay, I saw Arthur changing his mind, but I did not see Magic disagreeing.

Magic said the logic was insufficient, which means Tedd's argument isn't enough, there needs to be more than just "A Seer could potentially reveal it to everyone again."

What could be more substantial? Maybe Tedd needs to go into how she wanted to help people defend themself against the bad stuff magic could do, to make it safer, because there's a lot of good magic could do for people, and it can be fun as well. Maybe she can say what's it done for her life, how she grew up believing she wasn't capable of using magic but it didn't stop her from trying to be part of it with her friends and family.

Arthur is human, and quite experienced. He sees the logic in thousand people not being able to keep magic hidden clearly. Magic doesn't and might need additional input. Or ... maybe it's asking for something else. The thing Arthur, Tedd and Van agreed on was that if magic will change, there will be need for another reset soon ... but they didn't explained why going public now would be preferable IN TERMS MAGIC WOULD BE INTERESTED IN. They should totally convince magic that it would be more dramatic that way ... which will be hard sell as that race of thousand seers trying to make use of their magic sounds pretty dramatic. Dangerous, but dramatic.

9 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

But I really did think that if the three of them reached a consensus then magic would respect that opinion.

Why?

With one seer, there is consensus automatically. It's obvious magic wants to be convinced.

6 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

I have to say I'm impressed with how readily Arthur admitted he was wrong and changed his viewpoint when presented with new information. People should do that more often.

Agree. Definitely.

6 hours ago, ijuin said:
9 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Incidentally, Arthur just confirmed for me that he views magic's existence as dangerous and detrimental to humanity. That "Better the enemy we know" line of his just about said it all. Also, I am going to be very interested to see how the three of them will function now that they are on the same side.

Arthur has pretty much implied all along that his nightmare scenario would be a sudden massive global supervillian crime wave with untold numbers of them popping up fast enough to overwhelm any defenses. Imagine EVERY city on the planet suddenly having dozens of active people like Not-Tengu or the vampires on the rampage in a single night.

Yes. Sounds pretty dramatic, right?

3 hours ago, wanderingmagus said:

Magic as dynastic makes Lord Tedd's lordship make that much more sense. He's part of a Noble and Most Ancient House, a rarity among rarities, and one of the Thousand, the only ones who can understand the innermost secrets of Magic.

Obviously. And BTW, Nanase is part of the same dynasty. Royal blood, remember? She's not seer herself but some of her ancestors likely were.

59 minutes ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, wanderingmagus said:

Magic as dynastic makes Lord Tedd's lordship make that much more sense. He's part of a Noble and Most Ancient House, a rarity among rarities, and one of the Thousand, the only ones who can understand the innermost secrets of Magic.

I gotta wonder what happened to the other Seers in Lord Tedd's universe, considering General Shade Tail's manipulations and the fact that Lord Tedd was trying to kill Tedds in other universes make me think that Lord Tedd's possibly the only Seer alive in that universe.

While it seems likely General Shade Tail happened to several of the other seers in Lord Tedd's universe, I don't think he would be able to make Tedd only seer alive by himself. But if there was bigger war ... Tedd might be one of last surviving seers or possibly last one.

42 minutes ago, Tuscahoma said:

Magic does seem to have other considerations, so that the logic must has a preponderance of weight to convince it.  Perhaps Magic would entertain questions regarding those considerations, what hurdle must they go over to convince Magic.  For one thing, the presence of more magic-users is going to change the ecology of available magical energy, but in what ways?  Will magical energy become so scarce that waiting for recharging takes days or longer, or will the presence of more magic-users increase the available magical energy (if say, the magic-user himself helps bring it into this world in some way)?  Would this affect the Griffin's Universe's magical energy supply?

Maybe it wouldn't. Maybe most magic users can generate just about enough magic for themselves on average and being more of them just allows better averaging of peaks.

I think the other considerations of Magic are something different. Related to flair for drama.

36 minutes ago, Scotty said:
44 minutes ago, Tuscahoma said:

Indeed, how did Magus' universe come to have dragons?  Were the rules always so different, to allow for the birth of dragons in that Universe and the existence of Griffins in their Universe, or did the revealing of Magic lead to more Magic and thus more magical creatures?  If magic is revealed in the Moperville Universe, will that mean more magical creatures?  Unicorns, dragons, gelatinous cubes and the like?  Cause, you know, I could do without the gelatinous cubes.  ;)

There used to be dragons in the main world, as well as magical lion bears, my guess would be that after the last reset there might have been a culling of magical creatures or maybe they were sent to the other half of the world? It's complete speculation as to what happened to them but the lack of them in present time definitely means something happened to them.

It's quite possible humans happened to them. If magical creatures were rare, few dozens magic users could make them extinct, especially with fairies like Pandora helping them with werewolfes for example ...

In Magus universe, there is more stronger magic and therefore more stronger magical creatures. In EGS universe, including the other half, there seem to be some amount of magic but not enough for big dragon populations. It's possible there are just few thousands of griffins, and that's only because they allied with humans and didn't do the mistake of going against them ...

 

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How would we know if all the "magical" creatures left?

Certainly creatures that left or died out that could do things contemporary creatures can not do could very well have been magic.

But how do we know that Branta canadensis is really just a normal waterfowl?  Because we see it frequently, we believe the behaviors and abilities it exhibits are mundane.  But can we really be certain?

For all we know, the V formation birds could be the larval stages of massive Arctic Ice Dragons that need only await certain conditions to undergo a final molt revealing their frosty forms.

Edited by Pharaoh RutinTutin
Undo auto correct spelling mistake

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15 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

 In EGS universe, including the other half, there seem to be some amount of magic but not enough for big dragon populations. It's possible there are just few thousands of griffins, and that's only because they allied with humans and didn't do the mistake of going against them ...

The Hippos on the other half seem formidable though.

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19 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

How would we know if all the "magical" creatures left?

Certainly creatures that left or died out that could do things contemporary creatures can not do could very well have been magic.

But how do we know that Branta canadensis is really just a normal waterfowl?  Because we see it frequently, we believe the behaviors and abilities it exhibits are mundane.  But can we really be certain?

For all we know, the V formation birds could be the larval stages of massive Arctic Ice Dragons that need only await certain conditions to undergo a final molt revealing their frosty forms.

And that's in OUR universe. We know very little about fauna and flora of EGS universe. We know that people living there THINK there are no magical creatures there (with exceptions like bigfoot), but there may still be something we would immediately recognize as magical but people in EGS won't because they are use to it just like they are used to green, blue and violet hair. Which is probably caused by fairie genes, just like magical talents.

3 minutes ago, Scotty said:
21 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

In EGS universe, including the other half, there seem to be some amount of magic but not enough for big dragon populations. It's possible there are just few thousands of griffins, and that's only because they allied with humans and didn't do the mistake of going against them ...

The Hippos on the other half seem formidable though.

Which doesn't mean they are more formidable than dragons. They may just be more common ... or Andrea would NOT be able to defeat dragon by herself.

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The mist around their legs seems pretty strong in the last two panels. I hope that doesn't mean Magic is about to dismiss them.

I wonder, does magic still not understand that in this day and age a thousand people (many of whom are not part of the masquerade) learning the rules of magic will make it inevitable that magic and how to perform it is well known, even more so than it is now pre-change? Or is it perfectly fine with changing the rules of magic every few years or less to keep too many people from mastering it?

...I could cheer for the starburst in panel six, but I'm too annoyed with the WoM right now to do so. Maybe later.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

I gotta wonder what happened to the other Seers in Lord Tedd's universe, considering General Shade Tail's manipulations and the fact that Lord Tedd was trying to kill Tedds in other universes make me think that Lord Tedd's possibly the only Seer alive in that universe.

Nioi is sure Lord Tedd is a good person, and even Mr. Verres has said that much of what the main 8 (and by extension the readers) know about Lord Tedd is incomplete or false. I suspect the whole thing about him trying to kill other Tedds is going to be reconnected away somehow.

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32 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

The mist around their legs seems pretty strong in the last two panels. I hope that doesn't mean Magic is about to dismiss them.

Seconding that.

32 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

I wonder, does magic still not understand that in this day and age a thousand people (many of whom are not part of the masquerade) learning the rules of magic will make it inevitable that magic and how to perform it is well known, even more so than it is now pre-change? Or is it perfectly fine with changing the rules of magic every few years or less to keep too many people from mastering it?

"Every" few years? There is also the possibility it doesn't believe it will happen, OR that it wants to see it once or twice before giving up.

As I already said, the thousand seers suddenly knowing about magic would be quite dramatic.

Of course, it may not be few YEARS. It's quite possible the questioning about next reset will happen in months or WEEKS.

38 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

Nioi is sure Lord Tedd is a good person, and even Mr. Verres has said that much of what the main 8 (and by extension the readers) know about Lord Tedd is incomplete or false.

What Edward said is that what we know about DGB actions regarding Lord Tedd is false, not about Lord Tedd himself.

39 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

I suspect the whole thing about him trying to kill other Tedds is going to be reconnected away somehow.

... although this is still possible.

Or, as has already been speculated, the key word here is TRYING. Maybe Tedd wants to TEST other Tedds, not kill them. It DOES seem that there would be more effective ways how to get rid of other Tedds that the goo ... of course, Beta Tedd thinks he wants to kill them as he nearly failed the test.

 

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Of course, it may not be few YEARS. It's quite possible the questioning about next reset will happen in months or WEEKS.

And won't that be fun.

For values of fun that include "make both DBG and Tedd go nuts".

 

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10 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

I have to say I'm impressed with how readily Arthur admitted he was wrong and changed his viewpoint when presented with new information. People should do that more often.

The way I see the last panel is not that Magic is rejecting their argument outright, but rather saying they're going to need to work harder to convince it. In other words, this isn't over so easily.

Agreed on both counts. Well said.

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8 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

We'd need to start installing those dragon sirens Magus was talking about.

Surely nothing so drastic will be required. We can just make do with the preexisting alarm systems we have like the one on Hawaii...

...on second thought, let's by all means get dragon sirens. And do some failure point analysis on existing systems, and upgrades too. Pharaoh, how did you guys do it in ancient Egypt? Did you have criers and semaphore systems atop the pyramids? :icon_eek:

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