Story Wednesday October 19, 2016

[Stature 96]

http://www.egscomics.com/?id=2264

Anytime now, Sarah...

[mlooney 3,417]

Why does Grace have a thought bubble of just "Tedd"?

[ijuin 572]

He's right about the "dangerous things"--they've already had not-Tengu and at least seven vampires that they know of.

Note how in Panel 7, Tedd's eyes widen to show that he is using his "magic analysis vision".

I look forward to seeing Tedd's analysis of the spell.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

43 minutes ago, mlooney said:

Why does Grace have a thought bubble of just "Tedd"?

She is worried for him. He has made a lot of experiments that have either been shaped by or entirely relied on the intense magical field in Moperville. (Also, as an aside: I suspect Tedd can only use his Marked spell because of the magical field, but I am uncertain of how much of a factor that plays in Grace's concerns.)

In short, once the field is gone, much of Tedd's work will have been rendered irrelevant. This is probably also why Tedd is reluctant to believe Box. It's a massive shock to his worldview, especially if Box is speaking the truth. Note that he is arguing with himself in order to convince himself that reducing the magic field is actually a good thing.

[ijuin 572]

Grace is probably also impressed that Tedd is taking the moral high road by being willing to sacrifice all of that work. It must have come as a shock to him to find out that The Will Of Magic Itself is dead-set against his plan of giving everyone in the world magical protection.

[partner555 170]

1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

She is worried for him. He has made a lot of experiments that have either been shaped by or entirely relied on the intense magical field in Moperville. (Also, as an aside: I suspect Tedd can only use his Marked spell because of the magical field, but I am uncertain of how much of a factor that plays in Grace's concerns.)

In short, once the field is gone, much of Tedd's work will have been rendered irrelevant. This is probably also why Tedd is reluctant to believe Box. It's a massive shock to his worldview, especially if Box is speaking the truth. Note that he is arguing with himself in order to convince himself that reducing the magic field is actually a good thing.

Well, there was a Q&A that said that the reason Tedd's watches will not work anywhere else is because of the lack of a power source, or battery, so to speak. If he can find a new one, or create a new one, that solves one problem.

Also, the Emissary also said that what Tedd's doing won't change the laws of magic.

[Hunendora 8]

Well, the knowledge gained by Tedd's experiments will not become irrelevant, unless there is a system change. Many of the experiments he performed were about basic research and rules. Which enabled him to make the watches. The use of ambient energy to power the watches will go away,

And as far as his not causing a system change, remember, any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.

If the public at large thinks its an app, and doesn't think its magic and doesn't understand how it works anyway, is it really a threat to what magic wants?

 

... what does magic want?

[CritterKeeper 1,102]

Ruffle Tedd's hair, Sarah!  Ruffle Tedd's hair!

[Scotty 1,061]

1 hour ago, Hunendora said:

Well, the knowledge gained by Tedd's experiments will not become irrelevant, unless there is a system change. Many of the experiments he performed were about basic research and rules. Which enabled him to make the watches. The use of ambient energy to power the watches will go away,

And as far as his not causing a system change, remember, any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.

If the public at large thinks its an app, and doesn't think its magic and doesn't understand how it works anyway, is it really a threat to what magic wants?

 

... what does magic want?

Guess that really depends on what the Will of Magic considers mainstream, but also Tedd's work, even if to many people does look like some high tech gadgetry instead of magic, the fact that using said gadgetry will still help exercise a person's own magic and could awaken and get their own spells. Sure, people awakening that way could just easily assume the gadgets did it which wouldn't be entirely true, but it still makes magic mainstream because of the large numbers of people that can get magic that way. It really boils down to keeping the number of magic users to a minimum, the Will of Magic wants to be rare and obscure, it want any showings of magic to be considered miraculous, it wants to inspire legends and myths that are engaging but too fantastic to believe actually happened.

Heck, if magic became known to all, what would that do to religion? a good portion of the Bible would be rendered down to "it was magic that caused the flood" "magic that created the burning bush"  "Jesus was a wizard" (though I have it on good authority that Jesus was actually a ninja but that's another thing entirely)

1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

Ruffle Tedd's hair, Sarah!  Ruffle Tedd's hair!

I doubt we'll actually see what Sarah does in her simulation, but I firmly believe it will either be ruffling Tedd's hair or maybe acting on some of the feelings she had during MV5, either with Tedd, or with Grace, or both, thus reinforcing the possibility of the OT3 being true.

[ProfessorTomoe 1,308]

18 minutes ago, Scotty said:

or maybe acting on some of the feelings she had during MV5, either with Tedd, or with Grace, or both, thus reinforcing the possibility of the OT3 being true.

I kinda doubt this. She's too shaken at the moment to do this, IMHO.

[Circe 32]

5 minutes ago, ProfessorTomoe said:

I kinda doubt this. She's too shaken at the moment to do this, IMHO.

I'll bet you tell people there's no Santa Claus, too.

 

[ijuin 572]

She'll have plenty of time to play with the spell later--Pandora did ask her to cast it multiple times per hour, after all.

[JustBecauseICantDraw 200]

Tedd would also like to give magic to everyone, and is now having to face the same wall as Pandora.  Grace is smart enough to realize that.

[Scotty 1,061]

2 minutes ago, JustBecauseICantDraw said:

Tedd would also like to give magic to everyone, and is now having to face the same wall as Pandora.  Grace is smart enough to realize that.

Even though Edward says it's a bad idea because of the potential harm it would do if used by the wrong people. The real reason is because trying to make it public would end up making it so no one would have magic for however long it takes for someone to figure out the changes. Sure, Tedd is in a position to be the person that does it, but he's still faced with the threat of another change if he or someone else triedmaking magic public again.

I guess you could say he might be wondering if what he's been doing these past few years was really worth it.

[banneret 45]

At first I thought Tedd looked more masculine than usual, then I realized Tedd's expressions are just more reserved, with an undercurrent of sadness. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. 

[hkmaly 490]

14 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

She is worried for him. He has made a lot of experiments that have either been shaped by or entirely relied on the intense magical field in Moperville. (Also, as an aside: I suspect Tedd can only use his Marked spell because of the magical field, but I am uncertain of how much of a factor that plays in Grace's concerns.)

I think he would be able to cast it with the gauntlet, if not without it. But yes, his experiments will became lot more complicated.

13 hours ago, ijuin said:

Grace is probably also impressed that Tedd is taking the moral high road by being willing to sacrifice all of that work. It must have come as a shock to him to find out that The Will Of Magic Itself is dead-set against his plan of giving everyone in the world magical protection.

Sacrifice? It's not like he has choice. But yes, The Will Of Magic being against his plan is certainly bad news for him.

13 hours ago, partner555 said:

Well, there was a Q&A that said that the reason Tedd's watches will not work anywhere else is because of the lack of a power source, or battery, so to speak. If he can find a new one, or create a new one, that solves one problem.

The gauntlet has some. Presumably, he either knows how to make it or it wouldn't be that hard for him. Still, adding batteries to everything will make experiments harder.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

11 hours ago, Hunendora said:

... what does magic want?

Guess that really depends on what the Will of Magic considers mainstream, but also Tedd's work, even if to many people does look like some high tech gadgetry instead of magic, the fact that using said gadgetry will still help exercise a person's own magic and could awaken and get their own spells. Sure, people awakening that way could just easily assume the gadgets did it which wouldn't be entirely true, but it still makes magic mainstream because of the large numbers of people that can get magic that way. It really boils down to keeping the number of magic users to a minimum, the Will of Magic wants to be rare and obscure, it want any showings of magic to be considered miraculous, it wants to inspire legends and myths that are engaging but too fantastic to believe actually happened.

The "what Tedd does will not cause reset" likely counts with him keeping it to himself. Starting to mass-produce some gadgets likely WOULD cause magic reset.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

Heck, if magic became known to all, what would that do to religion? a good portion of the Bible would be rendered down to "it was magic that caused the flood" "magic that created the burning bush"  "Jesus was a wizard"

Hmmm ... actually, Jesus might've been immortal. Would explain all that pacifism.

Most gods and everything else of all religions in EGS were actually immortals, I think that was even explicitly said in cannon.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

I doubt we'll actually see what Sarah does in her simulation, but I firmly believe it will either be ruffling Tedd's hair or maybe acting on some of the feelings she had during MV5, either with Tedd, or with Grace, or both, thus reinforcing the possibility of the OT3 being true.

Based on the panel borders changing, we WILL see what she does in simulation, so ruffing might happen.

4 hours ago, Scotty said:

4 hours ago, JustBecauseICantDraw said:

Tedd would also like to give magic to everyone, and is now having to face the same wall as Pandora.  Grace is smart enough to realize that.

Even though Edward says it's a bad idea because of the potential harm it would do if used by the wrong people. The real reason is because trying to make it public would end up making it so no one would have magic for however long it takes for someone to figure out the changes. Sure, Tedd is in a position to be the person that does it, but he's still faced with the threat of another change if he or someone else triedmaking magic public again.

I guess you could say he might be wondering if what he's been doing these past few years was really worth it.

Actually, we don't know what magic wants. If Tedd would be ruthless enough, maybe after forcing several resets magic would set up rules which DO allow to make magic knowledge public (although likely not magic abilities itself). It's not like magic is taking revenge: it's simply adapting to situation.

Of course, sideefect will be that all his friends and lot of other people would be affected by the reset and their magic could behave very differently ... which, based on details, can be bad, or very bad.

[Scotty 1,061]

27 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

The "what Tedd does will not cause reset" likely counts with him keeping it to himself. Starting to mass-produce some gadgets likely WOULD cause magic reset.

He's only been keeping it, well not completely to himself, Grace at least has been watching him work and helping him so she likely has a fair bit of knowledge in the field, Sarah's been helping out too and while she might not look at all the spreadsheets and notes that Tedd has, she's still been around for Tedd's exposition. But yeah, that's not enough to threaten a system change, but Tedd had a desire to make it public, knowing that doing so would cause a change to keep it from staying public basically killed that desire.

34 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Most gods and everything else of all religions in EGS were actually immortals, I think that was even explicitly said in cannon.

Jerry's mention of multiple Immortals named Zeus hinted strongly that Immortals could have influenced humanity by pretending to be their gods in ancient times, maybe the last system change was what caused the end of polytheism (at least for the greeks, romans and egyptians) and the rise of monotheism (Christianity), Immortals suddenly started limiting their interactions with humans which made humans change their ideas of who the gods were, if Zeus or Ra or whoever doesn't answer people's calls anymore, did they abandon the people, if so then there's no sense trying to get their attention.

But what I was getting at was, at current time, whether in real life or EGS, if the majority of the population who are religious, was suddenly faced with the realization that everything they were taught about all the miracles and such, was just plain magic that anyone could potentially do, then those miracles aren't very miraculous anymore and a lot of people would take that very hard. It'd be the same if for everyone who believed that Humans were special and unique in the universe, to suddenly learn that there's intelligent life on another planet.

50 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Based on the panel borders changing, we WILL see what she does in simulation, so ruffing might happen.

Huh, I though the the border fading indicated Tedd's analysis was in progress, everything going bright and such, I didn't even notice the rounded corner by Sarah's shoulder. Interesting.

[hkmaly 490]

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

The "what Tedd does will not cause reset" likely counts with him keeping it to himself. Starting to mass-produce some gadgets likely WOULD cause magic reset.

He's only been keeping it, well not completely to himself, Grace at least has been watching him work and helping him so she likely has a fair bit of knowledge in the field, Sarah's been helping out too and while she might not look at all the spreadsheets and notes that Tedd has, she's still been around for Tedd's exposition.

1) I'm sure Sarah IS looking at notes.

2) The watches he gave Nanase and Susan would also count. I mean, if he would be giving them to more people and not just two who are already awakened anyway.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

But yeah, that's not enough to threaten a system change, but Tedd had a desire to make it public, knowing that doing so would cause a change to keep it from staying public basically killed that desire.

Yes. That's the issue.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Most gods and everything else of all religions in EGS were actually immortals, I think that was even explicitly said in cannon.

Jerry's mention of multiple Immortals named Zeus hinted strongly that Immortals could have influenced humanity by pretending to be their gods in ancient times

It wouldn't even been so hard for them. Only thing they need to pretend is that they care about their worshippers even if they don't entertain them.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

maybe the last system change was what caused the end of polytheism (at least for the greeks, romans and egyptians)

I don't think last reset was THAT long ago. Although the end of polytheism on north (vikings etc) MIGHT match.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Immortals suddenly started limiting their interactions with humans which made humans change their ideas of who the gods were, if Zeus or Ra or whoever doesn't answer people's calls anymore, did they abandon the people, if so then there's no sense trying to get their attention.

It's also possible they got bored of that. In fact, it's possible that the multiple Immortals named Zeus were simply immortals who played that role at different times.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

But what I was getting at was, at current time, whether in real life or EGS, if the majority of the population who are religious, was suddenly faced with the realization that everything they were taught about all the miracles and such, was just plain magic that anyone could potentially do, then those miracles aren't very miraculous anymore and a lot of people would take that very hard.

... seems I'm not religious, then

Yes, truth usually have very devastating effect on dogmatic religions.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

It'd be the same if for everyone who believed that Humans were special and unique in the universe, to suddenly learn that there's intelligent life on another planet.

Or on THIS planet. It was already hard for them to find out that humans evolved from apes. If some other animals, say dolphins, proved to also be intelligent ...

(... in fact, it was hard for some to find that Earth is NOT in centre of universe.)

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Based on the panel borders changing, we WILL see what she does in simulation, so ruffing might happen.

Huh, I though the the border fading indicated Tedd's analysis was in progress, everything going bright and such, I didn't even notice the rounded corner by Sarah's shoulder. Interesting.

Reading Dan's commentary often helps.

(I only noticed after I read the commentary and was like "what he's talking about? ... oh. This.")

 

[Scotty 1,061]

8 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Reading Dan's commentary often helps.

(I only noticed after I read the commentary and was like "what he's talking about? ... oh. This.")

Interesting...I only remember reading as far as " Granted, Tedd's still undoubtedly going to give his assessment of the spell, but that'll just be one "blah" instead of five. " and that was it. not sure of the page didn't fully load or what, but I honestly don't remember seeing the whole commentary....

Up until you mentioned it, I was thinking "We're just going to see Tedd's reaction at seeing Sarah's spell for the next page." I considered seeing Sarah doing whatever in her simulation to fall under unnecessary recapping, and Tedd did just say "for about a minute from your perspective" and yeah Sarah could do a fair bit in a "minute" but it didn't click as something Dan was going to show us.

[Don Edwards 548]

18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

(... in fact, it was hard for some to find that Earth is NOT in centre of universe.)

Current understanding is that the Theory of Relativity dictates that there is no preferred frame of reference.

Which means that the Earth IS the center of the universe... exactly as much as any other place is.

(How that reconciles with the Big Bang... is left as an exercise for anyone who wants to take a whack at it.)

[hkmaly 490]

1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

19 hours ago, hkmaly said:

(... in fact, it was hard for some to find that Earth is NOT in centre of universe.)

Current understanding is that the Theory of Relativity dictates that there is no preferred frame of reference.

Which means that the Earth IS the center of the universe... exactly as much as any other place is.

It's true that there is not single preferred frame of reference, but anything which undergoes rotating motion or accelerates is definitely NOT preferred. Any two preferred frames of reference are in UNIFORM motion relative to each other.

1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

(How that reconciles with the Big Bang... is left as an exercise for anyone who wants to take a whack at it.)

The centre of expansion for Big Bang is outside current universe, similarly as the centre of expansion of inflatable ball is not on it's surface. At least, this hypothesis will match observable data.

[CritterKeeper 1,102]

You can pick any frame of reference you want, and all are equally valid.  That in itself would not preclude there being a geographic center to the universe.  I suspect there are plenty of esoteric theories, many of them incompatible, and am not qualified to judge between them.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

50 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

You can pick any frame of reference you want, and all are equally valid.  That in itself would not preclude there being a geographic center to the universe.  I suspect there are plenty of esoteric theories, many of them incompatible, and am not qualified to judge between them.

My own belief on the nature of the universe is based on inverse solipsistic existentialism. I believe that I am made up, but that everything else is real.

[hkmaly 490]

1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

You can pick any frame of reference you want, and all are equally valid.

Can you find something on this page supporting your theory?

As I read it, in special theory of relativity, acceleration makes your frame of reference "worse" (non-inertial). In general theory of relativity, so can gravitation. Both are present on Earth.

49 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

My own belief on the nature of the universe is based on inverse solipsistic existentialism. I believe that I am made up, but that everything else is real.

You are not first with such theory. Note that the other person I heard this about got wikipedia editors agree with him: they declared he's made up.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

5 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

You are not first with such theory. Note that the other person I heard this about got wikipedia editors agree with him: they declared he's made up.

HA! And I didn't even need a citation for it! ./flex