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      Welcome!   03/05/2016

      Welcome, everyone, to the new 910CMX Community Forums. I'm still working on getting them running, so things may change.  If you're a 910 Comic creator and need your forum recreated, let me know and I'll get on it right away.  I'll do my best to make this new place as fun as the last one!
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Story Wed Feb 28, 2018

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I think the fact that Dan didn't use ohsnap.png Should be an indicator that he knew this wouldn't surprise anyone.

I do wonder why the WoM chose to tell Van about his relation to Tedd and keep Tedd out of the loop, what purpose does it serve. I'm beginning to think the WoM hoped that Tedd would rise to the challenge and make a convincing argument for minimal changes and maybe expects Tedd to do great things, maybe learning about Van being her half brother too soon might affect the outcome?

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Why magic does what it does?

I'm not sure Dan really knows.  And he's the one writing this.

No, I am now quite ready to concentrate on the next important piece of Bunny Speculation.

What kind of cookies are we getting?

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Oh, and who is Van's father?

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But really, the cookie thing.

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Darnitol.  I want cookies now.

 

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12 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I do wonder why the WoM chose to tell Van about his relation to Tedd and keep Tedd out of the loop, what purpose does it serve. I'm beginning to think the WoM hoped that Tedd would rise to the challenge and make a convincing argument for minimal changes and maybe expects Tedd to do great things, maybe learning about Van being her half brother too soon might affect the outcome?

Yeah, Tedd would be very distracted by that revelation.  And yes, I can see Tedd being very instrumental in easing the transition to public awareness of Magic.

Still, there must be a serious secret to Tedd's family if WoM feels that Van and Tedd  (eventually) should know about it and will benefit Magic.  Perhaps they are some kind of different type of Seers.  I have always wondered why Tedd glows when he has an epiphany about Magic and when he feels intense love.  This latter part has never really been explained as part of the description of Seers.  Of course, how that would benefit Magic is not really self-evident, so it may not be the secret WoM is talking about.

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28 minutes ago, Tuscahoma said:

Yeah, Tedd would be very distracted by that revelation.

The thing that gets me is Tedd know's her mom is a monster hunter who's been in Europe for at least 10 years, she just met a kid who's probably no older than 10 years who lives in Europe and who's mom is a monster hunter. I know Tedd doesn't like when people jump to conclusions but I totally expected her to wonder if that's just a coincidence or not. And if frustrates me that Nanase and Ellen didn't hear Not_Tengu hint at Norkio having other children. I could see Tedd telling Nanase about meeting Van in the dreamscape of the WoM and Nanase being all "Uuuuuuuhhhhh".

 

Edit: Oh....crap. I just read the commentary, is it going to turn out that Adrian is Van's father? Honestly I don't see how that should be possible, at least from a standard "Noriko slept with Adrian" point of view because if Noriko was hoping for a baby out of it Adrian would have insisted it wouldn't be possible. And if Noriko did sleep with Adrian anyway and then wound up pregnant, I would think she'd have mentioned something to Adrian and even if Adrian denied it being possible back then, the recent revelation should definitely have given Adrian an "OMG I did get Noriko pregnant" moment. The commentary suggests that it's possible to guess who Van's father is, but if there've been any hints beyond "Adrian betrayed Edward's trust" there's nothing that really screams that Tedd and Diane share a half brother.

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The only suspect for Van's father is (surprise) Adrian. If this is true, Adrian doesn't know yet. Adrian is the only man other than Edward we know had any relationship with Noriko.

I think the chances are good that Edward knows about Van, and better that Nanase's mom knows.

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1 minute ago, Tom Sewell said:

The only suspect for Van's father is (surprise) Adrian. If this is true, Adrian doesn't know yet. Adrian is the only man other than Edward we know had any relationship with Noriko.

I think the chances are good that Edward knows about Van, and better that Nanase's mom knows.

I was just typing out my thoughts on that when you posted.

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Oh, BTW, if Adrian is Van's father, Diane is also Van's half-sibling, and Van is Susan's several-times-great uncle. And, of course, Pandora is Van's grandmother. Can I say "fairy grandmother"?

Edited by Tom Sewell
More to say.

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1 hour ago, Tuscahoma said:
1 hour ago, Scotty said:

I do wonder why the WoM chose to tell Van about his relation to Tedd and keep Tedd out of the loop, what purpose does it serve. I'm beginning to think the WoM hoped that Tedd would rise to the challenge and make a convincing argument for minimal changes and maybe expects Tedd to do great things, maybe learning about Van being her half brother too soon might affect the outcome?

Yeah, Tedd would be very distracted by that revelation.  And yes, I can see Tedd being very instrumental in easing the transition to public awareness of Magic.

Tedd would be very distracted indeed ... but I don't believe Will of Magic would realize that. Not saying that before Tedd's argumentation, ok, that I can believe, but telling Van now and not telling Tedd ... I'm taking back the bit about not having flair for drama.

1 hour ago, Tuscahoma said:

Still, there must be a serious secret to Tedd's family if WoM feels that Van and Tedd  (eventually) should know about it and will benefit Magic.  Perhaps they are some kind of different type of Seers.

Different kind of seers? Unlikely. But yes it's very weird formulation, "magic can only benefit" ... hmmm ... will WE learn the secret or will we need to wait for Tedd finding out?

Another question: is this "truth" something Noriko knows (and just didn't tell Van) or something forgotten longer ago? Maybe related to which immortal is the one who started that family?

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

The thing that gets me is Tedd know's her mom is a monster hunter who's been in Europe for at least 10 years, she just met a kid who's probably no older than 10 years who lives in Europe and who's mom is a monster hunter. I know Tedd doesn't like when people jump to conclusions but I totally expected her to wonder if that's just a coincidence or not.

The fact her mother is a monster hunter is quite new to her and she had lot on mind during this. I wouldn't be surprised if she realizes the possibility later, maybe while telling it to someone ... like, she would probably say it would be too much coincidence but should note it.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Edit: Oh....crap. I just read the commentary, is it going to turn out that Adrian is Van's father? Honestly I don't see how that should be possible, at least from a standard "Noriko slept with Adrian" point of view because if Noriko was hoping for a baby out of it Adrian would have insisted it wouldn't be possible. And if Noriko did sleep with Adrian anyway and then wound up pregnant, I would think she'd have mentioned something to Adrian and even if Adrian denied it being possible back then, the recent revelation should definitely have given Adrian an "OMG I did get Noriko pregnant" moment. The commentary suggests that it's possible to guess who Van's father is, but if there've been any hints beyond "Adrian betrayed Edward's trust" there's nothing that really screams that Tedd and Diane share a half brother.

Agree with all of that. I was always considering "Noriko slept with Adrian" unlikely for same reasons you stated, BUT it's true Adrian is only one we know who would be at least LITTLE suspect. Well ... not only one actually. Second one would be Edward, but WoM said "half-sibling" so he's out.

EDIT: Does Arthur hint that he expect they will fire him for this fiasco? Because this is unlikely to be solved quickly ... more like never. The mess got worse.

Also, this might explain why he didn't hired Tedd before: until now, even if he would consider him as candidate for DGB scientist based on the reports he should've read, he would wait until she's older. Now there is reason to hurry, however, and he doesn't have any OTHER candidate for that.

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

EDIT: Does Arthur hint that he expect they will fire him for this fiasco? Because this is unlikely to be solved quickly ... more like never. The mess got worse.

Nah. He is saying that he is old and only returned to solve this particular crisis. Since the situation has now developed beyond the time where it is 'solvable', he intends to retire again and allow younger people with a fresh point of view to take over. As to who gets to be his replacement, my vote goes to Agent Cranium.

As to the speculation about who could possibly be Van's father, please do not be ridiculous. There is only one possible candidate to fill the position.

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The fact that Dan says it's possible to guess who Van's father is means it's someone we know of, either directly or indierectly.

Two possibilities present themselves.  Either Van's father is someone Noriko knew in Moperville before she left town, making Adrian the prime suspect, or he's someone we know was/is in Europe, preferably England, since she moved there.  Any ideas on the second option?  Demetrius, maybe?

It's possible Noriko discovered independently that Immortals' offspring can have children.  Jerry knew, and passed the information accurately to Zeus.  There might be some record of it somewhere in the DGB archives or through some other source.  An aberration she was killing could have told her, just to stir up trouble.  That would mean Noriko could have seduced (such an old-fashioned word, but it fits) Adrian, and not told him that she was pregnant.  Indeed, if she learned about Elves' heritage and the fact that all wizards and such are descended from them, she likely would have wanted to get as close to the source as possible.

Of course, it's also possible that she either didn't expect to get pregnant but decided to keep it from Adrian, or told him she was pregnant and he didn't believe he could be the father and that's part of why she left town.

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Errr, sure. Contact after this is, for now, zilch.

7 hours ago, Scotty said:

I think the fact that Dan didn't use "OH SNAP!" Should be an indicator that he knew this wouldn't surprise anyone.

Not yet, I feel. Yet. Worst case is never again in this arc.

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I'm not going to plow through my Forum posts for the past year or two, but I'm pretty sure I made a few listing reasons why Adrian having an affair with Noriko really fits uncomfortably well. Here's how it looks to me now:

  • Adrian's feeling of responsibility for the breakup of Noriko's and Edward's marriage is extreme. Yes, Adrian was really impressed by Noriko's talent and encouraged her career. But wouldn't Noriko have always been inclined to give priority to her career? It's not only a career, it's a family tradition going back many generations. It's not her sister who's the traditionalist here; Nanase and Akiko's mother has specifically rejected that tradition. So why does Adrian shoulder so much guilt about Noriko?
  • Edward hasn't forgiven Adrian. Encouraging Noriko's career doesn't strike me as enough reason for that. And there's the fact that Edward is still following the same career, the career Adrian trained him for.
  • Dan just made it clear that Van is Tedd's half-sibling--and it doesn't seem that Magic is entirely finished telling telling Van the truth about his family. So unless Tedd's biological father isn't Edward, the only other possibility is that Noriko had Van with another man--and Adrian is the only other man Dan has shown that Noriko had any sort of relationship with.
  • Dan's used up his trolling quota by leading us to believe Diane was Susan's sibling/half-sibling for so long.
  • There isn't any other credible suspect we have a chance of guessing. 

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1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

The fact that Dan says it's possible to guess who Van's father is means it's someone we know of, either directly or indierectly.

Two possibilities present themselves.  Either Van's father is someone Noriko knew in Moperville before she left town, making Adrian the prime suspect, or he's someone we know was/is in Europe, preferably England, since she moved there.  Any ideas on the second option?  Demetrius, maybe?

It's possible Noriko discovered independently that Immortals' offspring can have children.  Jerry knew, and passed the information accurately to Zeus.  There might be some record of it somewhere in the DGB archives or through some other source.  An aberration she was killing could have told her, just to stir up trouble.  That would mean Noriko could have seduced (such an old-fashioned word, but it fits) Adrian, and not told him that she was pregnant.  Indeed, if she learned about Elves' heritage and the fact that all wizards and such are descended from them, she likely would have wanted to get as close to the source as possible.

Of course, it's also possible that she either didn't expect to get pregnant but decided to keep it from Adrian, or told him she was pregnant and he didn't believe he could be the father and that's part of why she left town.

I doubt Van is an Elf, I'm not even certain Elves could also be Seers, though to be honest it's uncertain how many generations on both sides there has to be before the "right mix" of ancestry could be achieved.

I dunno, even if her pregnancy was never revealed, if Adrian slept with her, he now has a good reason to wonder if he did get her pregnant.

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So much speculation regarding Van's father.  The general agreement is that if we can guess, it must be someone we know.  Since we know of only two men that Noriko has relationships with, her ex-husband Edward and mentor Adrian, and Van is a half-sibling the speculation has run mostly to Adrian.  We can also add to the mix that it is likely that Van's father is a wizard.  I can't imagine Noriko wouldn't try to increase the odds of her child having magic to protect himself.

Adrian kind of makes sense, though I don't think it was an extramarital affair.  If he were Van's father, I think it would have been after they were divorced.  Adrian seems to have a certain sense of honor.  Remember when he realized that a one-time dalliance resulted in a daughter and he didn't remember the woman's name.  He thought himself a scoundrel.  I think his guilt over Tedd's parents is partly because his encouragement of Noriko's career might have led to the divorce, and maybe because he and Noriko had a relationship after the divorce, but I think if it had been an extra-marital affair, Edward wouldn't have even spoken to Adrian on the phone when he called to offer his assistance and Adrian wouldn't have even called to offer it. 

Honestly, Adrian being Van's father is almost too obvious.  More interesting would be trying to figure out who it could be if it weren't Adrian.  Though I am coming up with a dearth or reasonable candidates.

5 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

As to the speculation about who could possibly be Van's father, please do not be ridiculous. There is only one possible candidate to fill the position.

Well, thank goodness the link didn't take us to the Demonic Duck.  I guess at least Phill is a hero of legend...

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6 minutes ago, Tuscahoma said:

Well, thank goodness the link didn't take us to the Demonic Duck.  I guess at least Phill is a hero of legend...

Hmmm. Phill looks pretty old. Could he be Edward's father? Uncle? There's that doubled consonant at the end of Phill's name; where have we seen that before...

 

9 minutes ago, Tuscahoma said:

maybe because he and Noriko had a relationship after the divorce

Where would they had that relationship? There's no indication that Adrian has left Moperville since he was teaching Noriko, her sister, and Edward at Moperville South. Would it have been when Noriko came back to visit Tedd? Maybe the last time Tedd saw his mother? That's pretty dark. Kind of makes getting drunk and losing their inhibitions seem like a better excuse.

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We have a fairly short suspect list. We need adult male characters at least in their late twenties or older. They are not that common in EGS. All we need to do is consult Illjwamh's list. Excluding Mr. Verres, we have:

Mr. Raven
Greg (seems unlikely)
Mr. Tensaided
Dex (seems very unlikely)
Dr. Sciuridae
Agent Wolf
Principal Verrückt (please God, no)
Mr. Pompoms
Mr. Dunkel (which would be really creepy, so please no)
Emissary of Magic (seems unlikely)

Also a few male Immortals I am going to rule out. It is of course possible that Van's father has never been shown incomic but only been referred to.
 

 

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I'll take a moment to say I could be wrong about Adrian being Van's father, and if I come across as jumping on everyone who says he might not be, that's because I think I'm probably right... and because I love playing the devil's advocate.

That said, here's what might be an actual new idea: Maybe Noriko always was attracted to Adrian, and it was only because Adrian pushed her onto Edward that she married Edward. Even if Adrian never did sleep with Noriko, he could feel even more guilt about Tedd.

24 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

Mr. Pompoms

Seems like a stretch to me, but he is a horndog and he has (or had) the money to travel to Europe. And where did Susan get her magic from? Likely from her father, so Mr. Horndog could be a wizard or a monster hunter or both, and if he is and Noriko knows he is, he'd be a good candidate for Noriko if she was trying to do her duty of continuing the family line of monster hunters. Noriko might actually have been married to him when she conceived Van, which sounds like a dandy excuse for future plot points. Hmmm. Seem to be arguing with myself. Well, far from the first time.

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It's possible Van's father is someone we haven't seen or heard about. If it's going to be a while before he's revealed, he might be introduced in a later story but still before his relationship to Van is revealed, allowing us to guess it. Alternately, Dan could have simply been referring to that fact that the Bunnies would inevitably speculate about who Van's father is (even if we didn't have any indication he'd been introduced).

If it is someone we've seen, though, my guess is Mr. Pompoms. We need to find out more about him sometime, and why not address both Susan and Tedd's messed up parental relationships at the same time?

10 hours ago, WR...S said:

...okay, who didn't call it?

Well, some of us considered the possibility then decided it was too obvious/convenient.

That's okay, though, I don't mind not getting any free cookies; I just bought a couple bags of cookies yesterday anyway, so I'm all stocked up.

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1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

Mr. Pompoms

5 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

If it is someone we've seen, though, my guess is Mr. Pompoms. We need to find out more about him sometime, and why not address both Susan and Tedd's messed up parental relationships at the same time?

Hmmm, did Edward actually have to look in records to find out about Susan's parent's being divorced? Or would the reason he called to Mr. Pompoms as a "cheating cheater who cheats" an indication of personal experience? Maybe Mr Pompoms was also in the same class as Edward and Noriko growing up, what if Diane wasn't the first of Adrian's family to be taught by Adrian without him realizing.

I could probably see a case where Adrian could have done or said something that resulted in Noriko having an affair with someone else, maybe Noriko convinced Adrian to put an illusion on her? If the illusion was anything like the one he gave Grace but with blonde hair, that could account for the whole "other woman with Susan's face" bit. and then Edward found out anyway, either Adrian felt guilty about being a part of the deception and told him or maybe Noriko lied to him about the purpose of the illusion but Adrian still took responsibility for it as an attempt to keep Edward and Noriko together.

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No one's brought up Arthur's "foreign child" dismissal of Van. Granted that the boy did kick him and stick his tongue out at him, so I could see the prim-and-proper Arthur being peeved at that, but why bring up that he's foreign? Is he simply concerned about entrusting research for the FBI to a non-American (a legitimate concern, especially given the agency's broadened mandate post-9/11), or is he revealing his personal prejudices?

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5 minutes ago, Scotty said:

maybe Noriko convinced Adrian to put an illusion on her? If the illusion was anything like the one he gave Grace but with blonde hair, that could account for the whole "other woman with Susan's face" bit.

Adrian gave that illusion to Grace so she could credibly look like his niece. Why would he do that? Because he didn't want other people to think he's with a young girl. This implies that he didn't need to make Grace resemble him; he could have made her look like anything he thought appropriate.

So why would he have given Noriko his own face? Now that we know that Susan's dad looks like Adrian, it seems even creepier that he would have sex with someone who looks like she could be his sister or his daughter. So as I did speculate quite some time ago, perhaps Susan could have seen herself in the mirror but not really remembered how that blonde woman with her father looked.

Or maybe like Jean Nessman over in C.D. Rudd's I Dream of a Jeanie Bottle, Mr. Pompoms has a website devoted to warning other women what a creep he is.

Speaking of appearances, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Noriko looks more like her sister now. After all, they both seem to be mothers of two. Plus, Van and Akiko aren't that far apart in age.

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2 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:

The general agreement is that if we can guess, it must be someone we know

I'm going to go out on a limb and bet that it isn't any one we know.  The Dan isn't shy about adding new characters.

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7 minutes ago, TamarTree said:

No one's brought up Arthur's "foreign child" dismissal of Van. Granted that the boy did kick him and stick his tongue out at him, so I could see the prim-and-proper Arthur being peeved at that, but why bring up that he's foreign? Is he simply concerned about entrusting research for the FBI to a non-American (a legitimate concern, especially given the agency's broadened mandate post-9/11), or is he revealing his personal prejudices?

Well, Arthur doesn't seem to know Van  is Tedd's half-sibling, and Americans aren't supposed to say "Mum." And bringing in a bit of real-world history, Arthur seems old enough to remember how many Brits turned out to be Soviet agents. Or for that matter, to what lengths the Brits went to to get America into both World Wars. Yes, Van is a child, but he has Brit parents, right? At least he seems to, to Arthur.

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