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Scotty

Story, Monday March 19, 2018

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I shall not figure out how will Ellen dispose Sirleck, but yay.

22 minutes ago, Scotty said:

This ain't going to be a thumb war either. :D

We never knew what happened to the first one anyway. :P

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

Definite proof that Ellen is a badass...not that we needed any though.

 

23 minutes ago, Scotty said:

We know it evolved into Rock, Paper, Scissors and Ellen always chooses Rock.

 

28 minutes ago, Stature said:

I shall not figure out how will Ellen dispose Sirleck, but yay.

 

48 minutes ago, Aura Guardian said:

Excellent timing, Ellen!

 

54 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Well, it's confirmed, Ellen has been fully aware this whole time, and she'd not about to let Sirleck get his way either.

Ellen's been aware, but that doesn't look like Ellen behind Ellen in the last panel. Taller, no sign of breasts, different jacket, and can see and reach into the spirit plane Sirleck has been hiding in. Which, I believe, I said Elliot's vision thing might give him the power to do in the commentary to Friday's comic. 

Added: If you're about to fire back that Elliot is knocked out on the ground in front of Ashley, remember that Elliot wasn't unconscious after the last time he touched the Dewitchery Diamond. Also, recall that the title of this chapter is "Elliots and Ellens".

Edited by Tom Sewell
Additional arguments.

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Yeaheah! Way to go, Ellen!

3 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Ellen's been aware, but that doesn't look like Ellen behind Ellen in the last panel. Taller, no sign of breasts, different jacket, and can see and reach into the spirit plane Sirleck has been hiding in. Which, I believe, I said Elliot's vision thing might give him the power to do in the commentary to Friday's comic.

...or whoever it is. Still, way to go!

 

Diamond broke, but I'm wondering if the shards still work. Then we'd get our plural "Ellens", though Ellen still needs to transform first (or maybe not? Magus did modify it a bit). Jury's out, though.

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Just now, Zorua said:

Diamond broke, but I'm wondering if the shards still work. Then we'd get our plural "Ellens", though Ellen still needs to transform first (or maybe not? Magus did modify it a bit). Jury's out, though.

See also my revised last post.

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34 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Ellen's been aware, but that doesn't look like Ellen behind Ellen in the last panel. Taller, no sign of breasts, different jacket, and can see and reach into the spirit plane Sirleck has been hiding in. Which, I believe, I said Elliot's vision thing might give him the power to do in the commentary to Friday's comic. 

Added: If you're about to fire back that Elliot is knocked out on the ground in front of Ashley, remember that Elliot wasn't unconscious after the last time he touched the Dewitchery Diamond. Also, recall that the title of this chapter is "Elliots and Ellens".

The second half of the commentary makes it clear that it is indeed Ellen holding Sirleck in the last panel, and also that it's a metaphorical visualization rather than what's literally happening.

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22 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Metaphorical Martial Arts?

Lookalikes and duplicates wrestling with body snatchers on the spirt plane?

Oh why can't Sensei Greg be here to see his students doing so well?

And more of them! More boxed sets!

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Okay, maybe I'll lose a cookie on this one. Looking again at Dan's commentary, he seems to say that's Ellen fighting back. Dan said in the his final paragraph that Ellen's not literally holding Sirleck back, and the second Ellen's hair looks more like Ellen Ellen's hair, and Dan just said this wasn't literally was happening, didn't he?

But that still doesn't make it clear that Ellen is figuratively holding Sirleck back, does it? The red herrings may be be spawning here. I'll hold on to my cookie until it does become clear, one way or another.

If it ever does.

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Posted (edited)

The lights in the sky happened before avoiding the raccoon and the elevated pulse, so maybe the magic reset also happened before them. Maybe the magic change gave Ellen the ability to read Sirleck's mind, figure out what he was up to, and finally start to fight back now that Elliot and Magus are separated.

Edited by Tom Sewell
Corrections and clarifcations.

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The thought also occurs to me that while magic may have changed only minimally for humans (at least by the less-than-completely-fathomable standards of the Will of Magic), it may have changed for former humans like Sirleck, and perhaps for part-humans like Grace and her siblings, nonhumans like Uryuoms, maybe even for Immortals such as, say, Voltaire.

In other words, Dan may have given himself license to change anything he said about magic before.  

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1 hour ago, Tom Sewell said:

The lights in the sky happened before avoiding the raccoon and the elevated pulse, so maybe the magic reset also happened before them. Maybe the magic change gave Ellen the ability to read Sirleck's mind, figure out what he was up to, and finally start to fight back now that Elliot and Magus are separated.

The "useless" artifacts in the warehouse becoming active would seem to imply that the magic change has already happened.

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3 minutes ago, ijuin said:

The "useless" artifacts in the warehouse becoming active would seem to imply that the magic change has already happened.

Yes, they do. The whole of The Fate of Magic took place in a nebulous realm that was more like a dream than anything else. Any amount of time could have passed--or none at all from the viewpoint of the waking world. Remember how long Tedd's conversation with the whales actually lasted and how long it seemed to last?

I don't think it took anything like three hours, though. I think it happened effectively instantly after Pandora's reset.

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14 minutes ago, Tom Sewell said:

Ellen's been aware, but that doesn't look like Ellen behind Ellen in the last panel. Taller, no sign of breasts, different jacket, and can see and reach into the spirit plane Sirleck has been hiding in. Which, I believe, I said Elliot's vision thing might give him the power to do in the commentary to Friday's comic. 

Just now, Tom Sewell said:

Okay, maybe I'll lose a cookie on this one. Looking again at Dan's commentary, he seems to say that's Ellen fighting back. Dan said in the his final paragraph that Ellen's not literally holding Sirleck back, and the second Ellen's hair looks more like Ellen Ellen's hair, and Dan just said this wasn't literally was happening, didn't he?

But that still doesn't make it clear that Ellen is figuratively holding Sirleck back, does it? The red herrings may be be spawning here. I'll hold on to my cookie until it does become clear, one way or another.

If it ever does.

Ellen was magically created by the diamond, Edward had even said that because of that, she'd have an advantage over Elliot when it came to dealing with the energy buildups. The part where he mentions "regarding anything magical" could include anything like resisting enchantments, better control of spells, and overpowering bodysnatchers.

Dan stated he originally didn't have Ellen be able to do this, I dunno when he changed his mind about it but it would have been at or before the raccoon part, Dan's commentary for that one mentions "If Sirleck's being truthful about using Ellen's muscle memory..." Sirleck could have been lying and not really know why he was forced to avoid the raccoon.

Just now, Tom Sewell said:

The thought also occurs to me that while magic may have changed only minimally for humans (at least by the less-than-completely-fathomable standards of the Will of Magic), it may have changed for former humans like Sirleck, and perhaps for part-humans like Grace and her siblings, nonhumans like Uryuoms, maybe even for Immortals such as, say, Voltaire.

In other words, Dan may have given himself license to change anything he said about magic before.  

The WoM stated that "how magic works has not changed at all" and that "what has changed it how much magic is being kept in check" the only thing that's immediately affected humans is they're no longer getting a resistance boost from magic. The WoM also stated in terms of transformations/resistances/permanence, that the system that humans have been using recently still works the same way, just that people who don't resist risk making it permanent, also Uryuom "magic" is not an issue suggesting that Grace will still be able to shapeshift however she wants and the TFG will still have 30 day limit with permanence only being an issue for male-to-female morphs and pregnancy.

Also people will continue to learn magic based on the most recent system and the only way people would learn any of the old magic would be if they found artifacts from those older systems and learned spells from them. So while it is inevitable that people would end up using older magic, it might be a while before that becomes an issue.

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Just now, Tom Sewell said:

Yes, they do. The whole of The Fate of Magic took place in a nebulous realm that was more like a dream than anything else. Any amount of time could have passed--or none at all from the viewpoint of the waking world. Remember how long Tedd's conversation with the whales actually lasted and how long it seemed to last?

I don't think it took anything like three hours, though. I think it happened effectively instantly after Pandora's reset.

The whale used a method of compressing thoughts to communicate in an extremely short period of time, the results of which gave Tedd a headache and ran the risk of doing actual damage if continued long enough. Tedd didn't wake up with a headache this time around so I would suspect that no compression was used here.

That said, I don't think the meeting took 3 hours either, but realistically, it could have taken up to 30 minutes, with the "change" happening at the 20 minute mark.

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Posted (edited)

While I love the fact that Ellen is fighting back, I hope Dan has a good explanation for why she is able to when none of Sirleck's previous hosts apparently could. The most likely possibilities in my mind are that it has to do with either her status as a Dewitchery Duplicate, or the change in magic. Another possibility is she has some spell not covered in the Ellen Demo which could help.

Edit: Actually, given what we know about the change in magic it seems unlikely it would have an effect on Ellen or Sirleck, unless maybe Sirleck was somehow using his own magic defenses to subdue his victims. I'm not going to totally abandon the idea until we know for sure, but it seems a lot less likely than I initially thought.

8 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Ellen's been aware, but that doesn't look like Ellen behind Ellen in the last panel. Taller, no sign of breasts, different jacket, and can see and reach into the spirit plane Sirleck has been hiding in. Which, I believe, I said Elliot's vision thing might give him the power to do in the commentary to Friday's comic. 

Added: If you're about to fire back that Elliot is knocked out on the ground in front of Ashley, remember that Elliot wasn't unconscious after the last time he touched the Dewitchery Diamond. Also, recall that the title of this chapter is "Elliots and Ellens".

The jacket looks the same to me. The "taller" and "no sign of breasts" might be due to Ellen's mental image / astral form not matching her physical form, but more likely it's just the camera angle and the way they're "standing" (their arms and SirleckEllen's torso are in the way of most of the area where we could see signs of her breasts, and the hold Ellen has on Sirleck would seem to be responsible for SirleckEllen's head being slightly lower than Ellen's; also both SpiritEllen and SirleckEllen are larger than the image on the right of Ellen's body, so we can't judge height by comparing them to Ellen's body).

7 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

The thought also occurs to me that while magic may have changed only minimally for humans (at least by the less-than-completely-fathomable standards of the Will of Magic), it may have changed for former humans like Sirleck, and perhaps for part-humans like Grace and her siblings, nonhumans like Uryuoms, maybe even for Immortals such as, say, Voltaire.

In other words, Dan may have given himself license to change anything he said about magic before.  

It's been stated before that the change in magic wouldn't affect Uryuoms. I don't remember if the way it was stated would rule out changes for Seyunolus or Immortals; at the very least I doubt the change would affect how Seyunolus use Uryuom "magic".

Edited by ChronosCat

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19 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

While I love the fact that Ellen is fighting back, I hope Dan has a good explanation for why she is able to when none of Sirleck's previous hosts apparently could. The most likely possibilities in my mind are that it has to do with either her status as a Dewitchery Duplicate, or the change in magic. Another possibility is she has some spell not covered in the Ellen Demo which could help.

 

My theory is that she is an awakened mage. I'm guessing Sirleck hasn't ever tried to possess anyone with any real magic ability before.

If true, that means his plan to possess Magus was doomed to failure anyway, so if that's not it, Ellen becomes a lot cooler.

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I believe this means that once Ellen gets a chance to 'discuss' this matter with Magus, she will kick the living crap out of him. She was not best pleased with her creation to begin with. Now she has learned that she was never meant to be more than a tool for Magus, she will be furious.

Yeah... I would leave in a hurry when this is done, if I were Magus.

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29 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

The jacket looks the same to me.

No, it doesn't look the same. It also doesn't look the same as Elliot's jacket on Friday, which is one reason why I so quickly decided my first amazing crackpot theory for the current comic was most likely wrong (and a bitter disappointment, that.)

 

51 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

It's been stated before that the change in magic wouldn't affect Uryuoms. I don't remember if the way it was stated would rule out changes for Seyunolus or Immortals; at the very least I doubt the change would affect how Seyunolus use Uryuom "magic".

It's stated in the first panel of #2464 of Part 23: The Fate of Magic. Uryuom aren't mentioned at all in any other place in Fate. Neither is Uryuom-based magic mentioned anywhere in Pandora's conversation with the Emmisary way back in the second part of Sister III. The Will of Magic of magic in that single reference is answering Tedd's question of how long is too long to hold a transformation without it becoming permanent  under the new rules for human magic. That doesn't say that there won't be any changes in Uryuom-based magic, or in the difficulty of people with Uryuom-based magic acquiring, learning, or inheriting human-based. Yes, I'm thinking that Dan might be thinking the whole entertaining but restrictive argument Dan made in Q&A #7 was a mistake like he thought Ellen not being able to resist Sirleck was a mistake--unless Dan was trolling us as the last panel in that same #2203 just might hint at.

And why should you care, any of you? Well, consider what Tedd and Grace's kids will be like. If they can't inherit human magic potential, they can't be wizards or seers. Seems like ending the line that produced the most important Seer on Planet Earth for hundreds of years or even of all human history up to this day might be something that the Will of Magic would like not to happen. Ever wonder why Magic sent its Emissary to Grace?

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