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      Welcome!   03/05/2016

      Welcome, everyone, to the new 910CMX Community Forums. I'm still working on getting them running, so things may change.  If you're a 910 Comic creator and need your forum recreated, let me know and I'll get on it right away.  I'll do my best to make this new place as fun as the last one!
Illjwamh

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7 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Yeah? Well, so much for the sanctity of marriage, then. That's better than invoking the Immaculate Conception, right? Saying that it is OK to molest underage children as long as you are already married, or whatever that was supposed to mean?

No matter how you turn it, it doesn't look good.

Please don't put me in a position of defending the daft. You get "fractally wrong", right? Wrong on every level you look at it. That he felt the need to step in is baffling. Why? Personal friend? Hoping for future political payback? So yeah, as you said, it doesn't look good.

All of that said, there is a slight grain of a point to Jim's argument. The notion of "underaged" is cultural. You and I are squicked by a 32 YO man molesting a 14 YO girl; while I would say "Rightly so", I am a product of my culture, as are you. I am aware that not every person on the planet, through all of history, has agreed where that line should be drawn.

I'm not buying the argument that Mary was 14 when she bore Jesus (notions of hypothetical reality aside); it seems reasonable that girls married younger in that culture, but you don't get to bring up personal suppositions as facts. Her age is not documented. Further more, we don't live in that culture, so it does not apply, whether true or not. We have laws about this sort of thing, they do apply, and Roy violated them. It appears she did not consent so age of consent is not an issue anyway, this is flat out illegal; unwanted sexual touching has been illegal in the US since the 1980s, although it is variably enforced. FWIW, currently in Alabama, the age of consent is 16, but this happened a while ago, and it may have changed, and I did not see a definitive statement that the molestation took place in Alabama.

Jim is, ... well, let's say not overtly criminal in this instance, as far as I've read. Being a jackass is not a chargeable offense. Please, our prisons are already too crowded.

Scary thought, Roy Moore, Donald Drumpf, similar?

 

 

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Just now, Darth Fluffy said:

Please don't put me in a position of defending the daft.

I didn't particularly intend to. Just thinking about how so many of these vile people were fine with running a child molester makes my blood boil. And besides, I do not intend to let them get away with the excuse of 'daft.' If your moral compass is so defective as to allow room for a child molester in one of the most important positions of your country's political leadership, you are not merely 'silly' or 'foolish'. You have failed on a fundamental level as a human being.

4 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

All of that said, there is a slight grain of a point to Jim's argument. The notion of "underaged" is cultural.

I am sorry but it is not this simple. While this is a common belief and many feel that childhood survivors of sexual abuse should 'get over it', there are strong indicators that they as well as survivors of other forms of childhood abuse suffer lasting trauma from the experience. Just because it is 'culturally acceptable' to perpetuate a form of abuse does not mean that it is not harmful.

We know better today than they did two thousand years ago, or at least we ought to.

10 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I'm not buying the argument that Mary was 14 when she bore Jesus (notions of hypothetical reality aside); it seems reasonable that girls married younger in that culture, but you don't get to bring up personal suppositions as facts. Her age is not documented. Further more, we don't live in that culture, so it does not apply, whether true or not. We have laws about this sort of thing, they do apply, and Roy violated them. It appears she did not consent so age of consent is not an issue anyway, this is flat out illegal; unwanted sexual touching has been illegal in the US since the 1980s, although it is variably enforced.

I agree. It is deeply contemptible. It should also be noted that Joseph and Mary were supposedly married. The fact that Moore and his victim(s?) were NOT married was lightly handwaved by his defenders.

14 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Jim is, ... well, let's say not overtly criminal in this instance, as far as I've read. Being a jackass is not a chargeable offense. Please, our prisons are already too crowded.

Certainly not. In this case, the judge and jury happened to be the voters. They made their decision and gave their judgment at the polls.

15 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Scary thought, Roy Moore, Donald Drumpf, similar?

The conveniently 'suicided' Jeffrey Epstein might have cast light on this. Unfortunately, the victims of his activities do not count as reliable witnesses according to our lovely culture of victims of sexual violence having to prove their innocence.

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18 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

On December 9 in History:

1965 - Thanks to a new animated Christmas special, the lyrics to "Hark! The Herald Angels Sing" are permanently changed to "Loo loo loo loo loo loo loo loo" in my household.

Ever immortalizing "aluminum Christmas tree".

 

18 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

On December 9 in History:

1979 - "Suck it, smallpox!" ~Humanity

The eradication of small pox is greatly overstated. I would not wager that everybody has tossed their samples, and anti-vaxxers and their stupidity is creating a resurgence of previously said to be eradicated diseases.

 

18 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

On December 9 in History:

2016 - South Korean president Park Geun-hye is impeached following a major political scandal fraught with corruption allegations, because that's how things work in a civilized society governed by the rule of law. Must be nice.

Maybe the fourth time's a charm. Nah, probably not.

 

18 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

The forum was down all day yesterday and most of today; I couldn't get this up.

On December 9 in History:

2017 - Australia legalizes same-sex marriage. Better late than never. That's it. That's all you get for this one. You have no idea how hard it is to think of an Australia-based pun that doesn't sound dirty.

Plus, you slipped the double entendre into the intro line. Don't want to overdo it.

 

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2 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

I didn't particularly intend to. Just thinking about how so many of these vile people were fine with running a child molester makes my blood boil. And besides, I do not intend to let them get away with the excuse of 'daft.' If your moral compass is so defective as to allow room for a child molester in one of the most important positions of your country's political leadership, you are not merely 'silly' or 'foolish'. You have failed on a fundamental level as a human being.

That's a fair argument, Jim's defense of Roy is likely the tip of the iceberg. Hence my question, "Why?" Where is the self-preservation instinct that had all the other rats scurrying away?

 

I am sorry but it is not this simple. While this is a common belief and many feel that childhood survivors of sexual abuse should 'get over it', there are strong indicators that they as well as survivors of other forms of childhood abuse suffer lasting trauma from the experience. Just because it is 'culturally acceptable' to perpetuate a form of abuse does not mean that it is not harmful.

We know better today than they did two thousand years ago, or at least we ought to.

Roy and Jim are tacitly saying childhood survivors of sexual abuse should 'get over it'; I am not. I am saying that rather than attack a straw man I'd rather see the claim as it really is, then tear it down.

'Just because it is 'culturally acceptable' to perpetuate a form of abuse does not mean that it is not harmful.' - true, but I can also see that not everyone, including the young females, are going to see that same reality. Let me posit something I can't prove, I'll do some research and see if I can support this conjecture, there are cultures in our world today, that if a girl is not married by what we thing of as the age of consent (I'm thinking 18 YO as a consensus for consensual) that she is an old maid and life has passed her by. Maybe that's a false trope I've been led to believe, I don't know.

'We know better today than they did two thousand years ago, or at least we ought to.' - We know a lot of things better than they did two thousand years ago; I'm not sure morality is one of them. I think a lot of our apparent moral progress is veneer, and often we do worse than they did, because we can. Think of all the $#!% that's happened in the last hundred, and ask yourself if we really know better.

 

I agree. It is deeply contemptible. It should also be noted that Joseph and Mary were supposedly married. The fact that Moore and his victim(s?) were NOT married was lightly handwaved by his defenders.

Hmm, were married, good point, takes the "Not much breeze around here" wind out of Jim's sail. Also, less based on conjecture. So he goes from zero knots forward speed ... to zero knots forward speed, but to more decimal places.

'The fact that Moore and his victim(s?) were NOT married was lightly handwaved by his defenders.' - I don't think that's the case. I would be really surprised if anyone made a defense of Moore that argued he was married to any and certainly not all four (youngest was 14, not all underage, FWIW). Hand waved, yes, about marriage, no.

I suspect, though, that what is reported is again just a tip of another iceberg. A predator like this who gets away with it does not stop. There's more that hasn't come out yet. He may have taken a hiatus when he got married, a few years later, but I'm guessing that would not put him off his hobby permanently. A real peach of a guy, heart of stone. Yeah, she made it all up, it's a political attack. Right.

 

Certainly not. In this case, the judge and jury happened to be the voters. They made their decision and gave their judgment at the polls.

Again, shades of Drumpf. The judge and jury are idiots.

Y'know, it's a shame that literacy tests have been used as a form of racial discrimination. Our current political landscape in the US practically screams for them. I could see a case for, "You can't register to vote unless you can pass the same test that immigrants take to become citizens."

Well, to be fair, the leadership is just as stupid.

 

The conveniently 'suicided' Jeffrey Epstein might have cast light on this. Unfortunately, the victims of his activities do not count as reliable witnesses according to our lovely culture of victims of sexual violence having to prove their innocence.

Yeah, I'm not convinced either way about Epstein's death. Going to guess he's actually dead, though. Too many people could be embarrassed if he's discovered alive.

'Unfortunately, the victims of his activities do not count as reliable witnesses according to our lovely culture of victims of sexual violence having to prove their innocence.' - Too true. Roy Moore leaped on denial as his defense, and you hear very little from the women.

On the other hand, even a few women making false claims against men really muddys the water for everyone else.

I have a family member that went through this, and in her case, unfortunately, she had a track record of making $#!% up. So when allegedly something real happened to her, it was hell convincing her own family it really happened.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

That's a fair argument, Jim's defense of Roy is likely the tip of the iceberg. Hence my question, "Why?" Where is the self-preservation instinct that had all the other rats scurrying away?

The increasingly tribal nature of politics. By now the divisions are so large that certain politicians assumed that the voters would prefer a Republican child molester over any kind of Democrat. As it happened, they assumed wrong.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Roy and Jim are tacitly saying childhood survivors of sexual abuse should 'get over it'; I am not. I am saying that rather than attack a straw man I'd rather see the claim as it really is, then tear it down.

Ah, I see. Unfortunately I understood you as playing the Devil's Advocate, which is... not a good look when it comes to sexual predators of any kind, let alone on minors. My apologies.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

'Just because it is 'culturally acceptable' to perpetuate a form of abuse does not mean that it is not harmful.' - true, but I can also see that not everyone, including the young females, are going to see that same reality. Let me posit something I can't prove, I'll do some research and see if I can support this conjecture, there are cultures in our world today, that if a girl is not married by what we thing of as the age of consent (I'm thinking 18 YO as a consensus for consensual) that she is an old maid and life has passed her by. Maybe that's a false trope I've been led to believe, I don't know.

Hm. It is possible that we could both be right. One harm is psychological, the other is social and cultural. Unfortunately that merely means that the subject is caught between the Devil and the deep blue sea as far as harm goes.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Hmm, were married, good point, takes the "Not much breeze around here" wind out of Jim's sail. Also, less based on conjecture. So he goes from zero knots forward speed ... to zero knots forward speed, but to more decimal places.

Possibly it makes him wronger than wrong? :icon_eek:

(Yes, once you sent me to RationalWiki, I got caught in a clickmare there. Take heed, everybody else -- do NOT click the above link if you do not wish to share my dismal fate. :doom: )

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

'The fact that Moore and his victim(s?) were NOT married was lightly handwaved by his defenders.' - I don't think that's the case. I would be really surprised if anyone made a defense of Moore that argued he was married to any and certainly not all four (youngest was 14, not all underage, FWIW). Hand waved, yes, about marriage, no.

I phrased myself badly here. I should have just said, 'was completely ignored.' My apologies.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I suspect, though, that what is reported is again just a tip of another iceberg. A predator like this who gets away with it does not stop. There's more that hasn't come out yet. He may have taken a hiatus when he got married, a few years later, but I'm guessing that would not put him off his hobby permanently. A real peach of a guy, heart of stone. Yeah, she made it all up, it's a political attack. Right.

I greatly fear that that may be taken as a given. :(

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Yeah, I'm not convinced either way about Epstein's death.

Me neither. But I am suspicious. That did not look right to me. Still, as you say, barring proof...

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Going to guess he's actually dead, though. Too many people could be embarrassed if he's discovered alive.

Yeah. I do not actually object to him being dead. I do object to him not getting to pay for his crimes and to the people he associated with escaping from the consequences of theirs.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

'Unfortunately, the victims of his activities do not count as reliable witnesses according to our lovely culture of victims of sexual violence having to prove their innocence.' - Too true. Roy Moore leaped on denial as his defense, and you hear very little from the women.

They know too well what will happen if they speak up. :doom:

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

On the other hand, even a few women making false claims against men really muddys the water for everyone else.

Yes. *sigh* Statistics imply that something between five to seven percent of all rape charges are falsified. This is used as a convenient shield for the ninety-three remaining percent of reported perpetrators.

And those are merely the reported cases. Given the unknown but most likely very large number of unreported cases, the actual percentage of liars is quite likely much smaller.

1 hour ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I have a family member that went through this, and in her case, unfortunately, she had a track record of making $#!% up. So when allegedly something real happened to her, it was hell convincing her own family it really happened.

'Boy who cried wolf...' :(

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12 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

The increasingly tribal nature of politics.

"Tribal", huh, that fits.

 

12 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

Possibly it makes him wronger than wrong? :icon_eek:

You would like this one too, I think. My take on it is "not even wrong" or "wronger that wrong" is about missing the point, being way off base. Fractally wrong starts there and aggressively builds on it. Wrong on many levels, it's a system, not just one thing. Jim was wrong about ... well just so much, his whole approach was wrong. I suppose it worked as a Chewbacca defense. Maybe there's a hidden level of brilliance in there.

 

12 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

(Yes, once you sent me to RationalWiki, I got caught in a clickmare there. Take heed, everybody else -- do NOT click the above link if you do not wish to share my dismal fate. :doom: )

I like it as a resource. It is very biased, but it is honest and up front about it's bias.

 

12 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

Yes. *sigh* Statistics imply that something between five to seven percent of all rape charges are falsified. This is used as a convenient shield for the ninety-three remaining percent of reported perpetrators.

And those are merely the reported cases. Given the unknown but most likely very large number of unreported cases, the actual percentage of liars is quite likely much smaller.

'Boy who cried wolf...' :(

I don't doubt that it is a very small portion.

 

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7 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

"You can't register to vote unless you can pass the same test that immigrants take to become citizens."

Well, to be fair, the leadership is just as stupid.

Unfortunately, most among the leaders of these political movements are not stupid
They deliberately pander to the stupid, scared, bigoted, and small minded

And is it worse to be a politician who is genuinely a small minded bigot, or a more intelligent politician who plays the part and panders to the small minded bigots to win elections?

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8 hours ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Y'know, it's a shame that literacy tests have been used as a form of racial discrimination. Our current political landscape in the US practically screams for them. I could see a case for, "You can't register to vote unless you can pass the same test that immigrants take to become citizens."

Well, to be fair, the leadership is just as stupid.

There are so many reasons why this would not work, one of which is that the tests need not be applied in good faith. It would merely join gerrymandering as another tool in the toolbox of voter suppression. The only thing I personally see as working is better education for everybody.

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23 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Unfortunately, most among the leaders of these political movements are not stupid
They deliberately pander to the stupid, scared, bigoted, and small minded

And is it worse to be a politician who is genuinely a small minded bigot, or a more intelligent politician who plays the part and panders to the small minded bigots to win elections?

That's fair. "Stupid" is really a one dimensional coarse assessment that does not adequately describe what is going on. Truth be told, the majority of the players, even the voters, have enough working brain cells to  make the right decisions and choices, in the absence of countervailing bias and delusions. That last clause is the rub.

Unfortunately, every last blessed one of us is ignorant, at best a dim candle in a vast darkness. There's always way more to learn compared to the total of how much you already know. A river, impressive enough, until you see the ocean it feeds into.

Perhaps we would not be functional if we were constantly aware of our own ignorance. (Sorry, I'm ignorant of whether that is indeed the case or not.) This is why we are not routinely aware of this; haven't even reached the crest of the ridge to see the distance on the other side.

I suppose the best we can do is keep feeding the flame, and gutter and spark a little brighter when we can.

 

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3 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

Perhaps we would not be functional if we were constantly aware of our own ignorance. (Sorry, I'm ignorant of whether that is indeed the case or not.) This is why we are not routinely aware of this; haven't even reached the crest of the ridge to see the distance on the other side.

Hence why I cite the value of a good education, as opposed to one merely teaching its students how to get high grades, which is what most school systems do these days. Critical thought is scary, but once you have embraced it, it stays with you.

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13 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Hence why I cite the value of a good education, as opposed to one merely teaching its students how to get high grades, which is what most school systems do these days. Critical thought is scary, but once you have embraced it, it stays with you.

I agree, but one message I try to impress upon my older kids is, "You are responsible for your own education."

I'm not sure critical thinking is scary. I think it's difficult to see the ruts while you are in them. Scary would be not thinking you have anything to consider, being oblivious to the ruts.

 

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2 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I'm not sure critical thinking is scary.

It is. It involves realizing that not only you might be wrong, but that the people who are responsible for teaching you or informing you might be wrong, or working from a position of bad faith. This is not as easy as it sounds.

3 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

I agree, but one message I try to impress upon my older kids is, "You are responsible for your own education."

Partly true. There are limits to how much you can educate yourself if the education facilities available to you are substandard or too expensive for you to make use of.

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9 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

It is. It involves realizing that not only you might be wrong, but that the people who are responsible for teaching you or informing you might be wrong, or working from a position of bad faith. This is not as easy as it sounds.

Partly true. There are limits to how much you can educate yourself if the education facilities available to you are substandard or too expensive for you to make use of.

OK, that is an unnerving realization. We all do it, though, we grow out of "Our parents are never wrong" to "Huh, mom and dad make mistakes, too", whether we are any good at critical thinking or not. Maybe the next steps, "Oh, I make mistakes, too" and "Maybe all those folks around me aren't so dumb as I thought", the maturing, is where the need for critical thinking kicks in.

There are limits and the playing field is not level, but the key is you have to take ownership of you own self. You can't expect to be spoonfed all your life; even if it happens, you won't value it and retain it. Also, the Interwebs are a great leveler. They are working to screw that up.

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5 minutes ago, Darth Fluffy said:

but the key is you have to take ownership of you own self.

This is true. Unfortunately, there are certain situations and people that work directly against this being readily achievable or even possible. :(

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2 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

This is true. Unfortunately, there are certain situations and people that work directly against this being readily achievable or even possible. :(

I'd be curious to hear more. In any case, as much as possible, it needs to be a goal.

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On December 13 in History:
 
1294 - Celestine V quits being pope after just five months because he much preferred being a hermit. If only there were some way he could do both. "Hold my sacramental wine." ~Francis
 
1466 - Death of Donatello, the least known of the ninja turtle namesakes.
 
1642 - Abel Tasman is the first European to sight a new pair of islands to the east of Australia. Maybe they'll name it after him!
 
1818 - Cyril VI quits being Ecumenical Patriarch. His attitude on hermithood is unclear, but he'd probably go for it if it would hide him from Ottoman Sultan Mahmud II, if you catch my drift.
 
1937 - The city of Nanjing falls to the Japanese. I have a baaaad feeling about this.
 
1960 - Emperor Haile Selassie's imperial bodyguard attempt to seize the capital and install his son Asfaw Wossen as ruler while he's gone visiting Brazil. "What are you doing; why are you bringing me into this?" ~Asfaw Wossen
 
1989 - Taylor Swift releases an album about being born. Wait, that can't be right...
 
2003 - Saddam Hussein is captured in a hole near the city of Tikrit. He is under the impression that this is a solid position from which to negotiate.

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10 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

1466 - Death of Donatello, the least known of the ninja turtle namesakes.

And his arch-nemesis, that least known of all renaissance artists Shredder, gloated.

10 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

1642 - Abel Tasman is the first European to sight a new pair of islands to the east of Australia. Maybe they'll name it after him!

The Devil they will!

10 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

1989 - Taylor Swift releases an album about being born. Wait, that can't be right...

With that name you can't blame her for getting it out fast.

10 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

2003 - Saddam Hussein is captured in a hole near the city of Tikrit. He is under the impression that this is a solid position from which to negotiate.

Well, he couldn't possibly get into a deeper hole. Or he would have.

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On December 14 in History:
 
557 - An earthquake severely damages Constantinople. That's all right; we'll rebuild. These walls will never fall again!
 
835 - Tang emperor Wenzong conspires with his chancellor and a top general to assassinate the eunuchs who had been amassing power in his court. This backfires, with his co-conspirators and their associates ending up dead instead, and the eunuchs seizing even more power than before. Ballsy.
 
1542 - Mary Stuart changes her letterhead to "Queen of Scots" on the death of her father. She is one week old. I'm sure it'll be fine.
 
1780 - Alexander Hamilton marries Elizabeth Schuyler, accompanied by a fantastic musical number.
 
1799 - Death of George Washington. "Whatever you do," he manages to say, "Don't do the thing." (Referring to political parties, a.k.a. "factions"). Narrator: "They'll do the thing."
 
1812 - What's left of the Grande Armée, now significantly less grande, limps its way out of Russia for good. Never get involved in a land war in Asia.
 
1911 - Roald Amundsen and his team are the first humans to reach the South Pole. Well done, lads. Now there's nowhere to go but up!
 
1918 - Prince Friedrich Karl Ludwig Konstantin of Hesse, also briefly known as King Frederik Kaarle of Finland (a role he never took up), renounces his royal throne, and Finland decides to be a republic instead. Having a German prince as a monarch seemed like such a good idea a couple months ago; what changed?
 
1939 - The League of Nations kicks the Soviet Union out for invading Finland. "Oh no! But we were having so much fun together!" says Stalin. I suspect he may be employing sarcasm.
 
1941 - Thailand signs an alliance treaty with Japan. They will come to regret this.
 
1958 - The 3rd Soviet Antarctic Expedition are the first humans to reach the Southern Pole of Inaccessibility, which is literally the most difficult point on the continent to reach. Suck it, Amundsen.
 
1972 - Eugene Cernan enters the lunar lander, making him the last person to set foot on the Moon. One small step for a man, one step backward for mankind.
 
1985 - Wilma Mankiller is the first woman to serve as Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation. Okay, I'm sorry; is nobody going to say anything? Who names their child Wilma these days?
 
2012 - A bunch of little children are gunned down at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. Surely this will be the last straw that will finally lead an outraged public to break the back of the inexplicably powerful gun lobby in the U.S. so that this nightmare may never happen agai...oh, god dammit.

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40 minutes ago, Illjwamh said:
On December 14 in History:
 
1972 - Eugene Cernan enters the lunar lander, making him the last person to set foot on the Moon. One small step for a man, one step backward for mankind.

NASA has long struggled with "Why are we spending money to send people into space, when we have so many problems here?", then having their budget chopped, ignoring that we wouldn't have today's economy without the spinoffs from space research.

 

40 minutes ago, Illjwamh said:
On December 14 in History:
 
1985 - Wilma Mankiller is the first woman to serve as Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation. Okay, I'm sorry; is nobody going to say anything? Who names their child Wilma these days?

There's three Cherokee tribes, Cherokee Nation one is the one forced to move to then Indian Territory in  the Trail of Tears.

 

40 minutes ago, Illjwamh said:
On December 14 in History:
 
2012 - A bunch of little children are gunned down at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. Surely this will be the last straw that will finally lead an outraged public to break the back of the inexplicably powerful gun lobby in the U.S. so that this nightmare may never happen agai...oh, god dammit.

Oops, they did it again ...

 

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2 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

835 - Tang emperor Wenzong conspires with his chancellor and a top general to assassinate the eunuchs who had been amassing power in his court. This backfires, with his co-conspirators and their associates ending up dead instead, and the eunuchs seizing even more power than before. Ballsy.

In spite of actually lacking balls.

2 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

1958 - The 3rd Soviet Antarctic Expedition are the first humans to reach the Southern Pole of Inaccessibility, which is literally the most difficult point on the continent to reach. Suck it, Amundsen.

Pure disablism. I commend Amundsen for going to the accessible South Pole instead.

2 hours ago, Illjwamh said:

2012 - A bunch of little children are gunned down at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. Surely this will be the last straw that will finally lead an outraged public to break the back of the inexplicably powerful gun lobby in the U.S. so that this nightmare may never happen agai...oh, god dammit.

They were just crisis actors anyway. Soon every schoolchild will be packing an Ingram MAC-10 and then everything will be better.

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On December 16 in History:
 
705 - Death of Wu Zetian, the most powerful woman in Chinese history - due largely to being one of the only women of power in Chinese history.
 
1431 - Henry VI of England is crowned King of France in Paris. Unless there are any other peasant girls with objections, that ought to end this war once and for all.
 
1598 - Though it comes at the loss of the great admiral Yi Sun-Sin, combined Ming and Joseon naval forces are able to defeat Japanese invaders for the final time at the Battle of Noryang. May they never darken Korean shores again!
 
1653 - Oliver Cromwell becomes Lord Protector of England, Scotland, and Ireland. Which is totally not a king. But isn't it a de facto autocracy? Well yeah, but it's different. And isn't he head of both state and government? Look, it's different, okay? And isn't he going to pass the title on to his son when...IT'S DIFFERENT!
 
1770 - Birth of Ludwig van Beethoven. If you give me three tries, I bet I can guess what tune is now stuck in your head.
 
1773 - A bunch of Bostonians whose dress sense indicates they need to attend cultural sensitivity training sneak out at night and demonstrate their distaste for British tea.
 
1775 - Jane Austen is born to a family of relatively modest means, meaning her only hope to make a good life for herself is to marry well. When she gets older, it'll be interesting to hear what she thinks about that.
 
1880 - The Boer-populated South African Republic and the British Empire go to war. Look, I like a good underdog story as much as the next guy, but there's something to be said for not biting off more than you can chew.
 
1912 - The Kingdom of Greece is victorious in the largest naval engagement of the First Balkan War, the Battle of the Dardanelles. Their opponent was the Ottoman Empire, whose continued existence is at this point a surprise even to themselves.
 
1922 - President of Poland, Gabriel Narutowicz, is assassinated. He's been in office for five days. That's got to be some kind of record.
 
1944 - "Surprise!" ~Three German armies bulging through the Ardennes
 
1968 - The Alhambra Decree, issued in 1492 to expel all Jews from Spain, is officially revoked. Better late than never?
 
1980 - Colonel Sanders dies at the ripe old age of 90. His longevity can no doubt be attributed to never overindulging in things like fried food.
 
1991 - Kazakhstan declares independence from whatever is left of the Soviet Union.
 

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29 minutes ago, Illjwamh said:
1770 - Birth of Ludwig van Beethoven. If you give me three tries, I bet I can guess what tune is now stuck in your head.
 

Either the opening movement of his Fifth Symphony, or the "Ode to Joy" from his Ninth Symphony. :D

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