Story Monday April 2 2018

[ChronosCat 155]

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Lord Tedd's universe doesn't appear to have an Elliot that we know of

There's an old speculation, based in part on a sketch Dan did with what appears to be Lord Tedd at a gravestone, and also on some vague hints Dan's given that Lord Tedd's backstory is tragic, that Elliot's alternate in the Alpha universe was killed. I don't think there's been any hint as to what the sex/gender of that Elliot/Ellen was, though. 

48 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

What nails either down as cis-gender?  I don't see it.

Just because Terra is female, doesn't mean she's necessarily cis (at least if you follow the convention I'm familiar with of continuing to consider people who have transitioned as non-cis); for all we know she may have been assigned male at birth.

[hkmaly 490]

51 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Lord Tedd seems very much male though more info is probably needed

The fact that Lord Tedd's closest friends are General Shade-Tail and Nioi suggest genderfluid to me.

This page does suggest genderfluid to me ...

53 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Beta Tedd seems to be male.

He could be genderfluid.  He was acting pretty much like EGS-Tedd.  He just had an active sex life.

I don't think he has more active sex life than our Tedd now

55 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

And AF04 has Tess.

Tess seems to have enough screen time to establish her as a girly-girl.  She would be the alternate-Tedd that's least likely to be genderfluid.

Then why she was looking for ways to turn herself into a boy?

6 minutes ago, Scotty said:

57 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Lord Tedd's universe is an open question.  We don't know if there's an "Ellen" and "Elliot" or the closest match is a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

The only thing we're sure of is that Lord Tedd doesn't have an Elliot for a friend, can only speculate that he either did and Elliot died, or they just never met.

Or Elliot/Ellen might've died before they met ... lot of options.

 

[Vorlonagent 442]

1 minute ago, Scotty said:

The only thing we're sure of is that Lord Tedd doesn't have an Elliot for a friend, can only speculate that he either did and Elliot died, or they just never met.

Got it in one, Mr. Garibaldi...

2 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I'm not sure how being friends with them would suggest that. Though it wouldn't surprise me if General Shade Tail was somehow keeping Lord Tedd from exploring the possibility.

General Shade-Tail and Nioi aren't exactly alike.  Shade-Tail is rough and outright violent...you could say hyper-masculine and Nioi is a magical furry.  At the very least is suggests radical personality swings on the part of Lord Tedd.  A swing from maculine to feminine and back fits this pretty well.  Also Lord Tedd has bouts of absolute rage.  People always have a reason for being like that and being genderfluid could be a part of where Lord Tedd's comes from. 

I fully admit it's speculation, but it's speculation that fits our limited facts very well.
 

 

7 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Second Life Tedd could be genderfluid, but since they don't appear to have magic or transformation technology (I suspect it exists though since Uryuoms and Seyunolus do) Tedd might have resorted to expressing it in other ways, a few pages after the one I linked show's Tedd with a choker and general looking more feminine but I don't believe Tedd was physically female, that doesn't mean Tedd wasn't feeling female at that moment though.

That Tedd could have been physically female, but yeah Dan didn't give us any clear indicators, like visible boobs.

10 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Terra's situation is entirely base on Magus' statement of Terra not chosing to become male like Magus did. There isn't any evidence that Terra ever was male, but there also isn't anything to suggest genderfluidity either, I would imagine that if she was genderfluid, being able to switch sexes easily would be the best thing since she can be male for her job but female any other time?

Terra could have been born female, be genderfluid and simply decide she didn't need to change to do what she wanted and be what she wanted.

[Vorlonagent 442]

9 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Then why she was looking for ways to turn herself into a boy?

Why would anyone of one gender want to turn into the opposite gender?  Especially if they had contorl and knew it would be temporary?  And Tess rejects doing it a second time.

[Scotty 1,061]

53 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

This page does suggest genderfluid to me ...

Aside from the long hair there, there isn't anything else about Lord Tedd that suggests attempts to look feminine, he's pretty androgynous though which is why I said more info is needed.

 

58 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Then why she was looking for ways to turn herself into a boy?

48 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

Why would anyone of one gender want to turn into the opposite gender?  Especially if they had contorl and knew it would be temporary?  And Tess rejects doing it a second time.

That Tess is from "Oblivious Wand Waving" and started off as Tedd, AF04 Tess is portrayed much differently and has no evidence of having been male or genderfluid. There is the intro to "Blank check for weirdness" that says "Tess is now Tess" but if we're going to be treating AF04 as an alternate reality, then it's probably best we disregard that portion since it raises the question of what happened to them?

[hkmaly 490]

1 hour ago, Vorlonagent said:

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Terra's situation is entirely base on Magus' statement of Terra not chosing to become male like Magus did. There isn't any evidence that Terra ever was male, but there also isn't anything to suggest genderfluidity either, I would imagine that if she was genderfluid, being able to switch sexes easily would be the best thing since she can be male for her job but female any other time?

Terra could have been born female, be genderfluid and simply decide she didn't need to change to do what she wanted and be what she wanted.

If temporary gender changes are option in Magus world (which we don't know about ; maybe they have just permanent changes) genderfluid person would DEFINITELY use those. Also, her go-to argument for any discussion about males being stronger would be "whatever ... I'll change for the exams".

1 hour ago, Vorlonagent said:

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Then why she was looking for ways to turn herself into a boy?

Why would anyone of one gender want to turn into the opposite gender?  Especially if they had contorl and knew it would be temporary?

Baseball?

1 hour ago, Vorlonagent said:

And Tess rejects doing it a second time.

"The last time I tried that" suggest she already have MORE than two tries behind herself, AND the "I'll stick with being girly" suggest more like "it doesn't work, I'll give up" than "I have no interest trying it".

In my opinion, Tess was trying to turn into manly boy, but failed. She MIGHT be doing it just for fun ... but that's exactly what OUR TEDD was claiming ... so she might be genderfluid and just in denial. Although probably not as much genderfluid as our Tedd, who's close to 50/50.

5 minutes ago, Scotty said:

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

This page does suggest genderfluid to me ...

Aside from the long hair there, there isn't anything else about Lord Tedd that suggests attempts to look feminine, he's pretty androgynous though which is why I said more info is needed.

Long hair and ... like ... meekness?

It's not proof, but it IS suggestion.

5 minutes ago, Scotty said:

That Tess is from "Oblivious Wand Waving" and started off as Tedd, AF04 Tess is portrayed much differently and has no evidence of having been male or genderfluid.

... oh. I might've mixed those two Tess's together.

[Vorlonagent 442]

2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

"The last time I tried that" suggest she already have MORE than two tries behind herself, AND the "I'll stick with being girly" suggest more like "it doesn't work, I'll give up" than "I have no interest trying it".

In my opinion, Tess was trying to turn into manly boy, but failed. She MIGHT be doing it just for fun ... but that's exactly what OUR TEDD was claiming ... so she might be genderfluid and just in denial. Although probably not as much genderfluid as our Tedd, who's close to 50/50.

It's a sure bet that the universe will be revisited one day.  If Tess is still experimenting with boyifying herself, I'd take it as a strong indicator that she was on the same track as EGS Prime's Tedd...

[Scotty 1,061]

3 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

"The last time I tried that" suggest she already have MORE than two tries behind herself, AND the "I'll stick with being girly" suggest more like "it doesn't work, I'll give up" than "I have no interest trying it".

"Last time I tried that" could also refer to the only time she tried, it's confusing but it happens, I'm guilty of it.

[hkmaly 490]

1 minute ago, Scotty said:

6 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

"The last time I tried that" suggest she already have MORE than two tries behind herself, AND the "I'll stick with being girly" suggest more like "it doesn't work, I'll give up" than "I have no interest trying it".

"Last time I tried that" could also refer to the only time she tried, it's confusing but it happens, I'm guilty of it.

With emphasis on "last"? Also, "new and exciting ways" ...

[Scotty 1,061]

Just now, hkmaly said:

With emphasis on "last"? Also, "new and exciting ways" ...

Sarah might only know about that one time and assume Tess was interested in it enough to keep playing with it.

Remember Tedd's opinion of the 4 breasted morph? she tried it once and decided it wasn't as sexy as she thought it would be, if someone had known about that one time then "Hey Tedd, figure out how to make having 4 breasts sexy yet?" could very well be a question that gets asked.

 

[hkmaly 490]

16 minutes ago, Scotty said:

23 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

With emphasis on "last"? Also, "new and exciting ways" ...

Sarah might only know about that one time and assume Tess was interested in it enough to keep playing with it.

Remember Tedd's opinion of the 4 breasted morph? she tried it once and decided it wasn't as sexy as she thought it would be, if someone had known about that one time then "Hey Tedd, figure out how to make having 4 breasts sexy yet?" could very well be a question that gets asked.

And it would be good question

Yes, it COULD be explained in way which doesn't require Tess trying multiple times, but Occam's razor says it's more likely she tried multiple times - until we get more informations at least.

[Scotty 1,061]

27 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

And it would be good question

Yes, it COULD be explained in way which doesn't require Tess trying multiple times, but Occam's razor says it's more likely she tried multiple times - until we get more informations at least.

Either way, that Tess isn't the AF04 Tess, sooo...

 

Oblivious wand universe Tess was born male, but through the use of magic became female (as well as changed a large number of things) and completely oblivious to the fact, claims she's tried out a male form at least once but decided she'd rather stay female.

 

How's that for a 7th universe?

Does it still make her trans-female if she's completely oblivious to the fact that she was born male? Or did the wand completely erase any aspect of that.

Of course we'll never know.

[Vorlonagent 442]

3 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Either way, that Tess isn't the AF04 Tess, sooo...

Oblivious wand universe Tess was born male, but through the use of magic became female (as well as changed a large number of things) and completely oblivious to the fact, claims she's tried out a male form at least once but decided she'd rather stay female.

How's that for a 7th universe?

I like to think the wand was more powerful than expected and transformed a non-cannon story into a canon universe.

Sort of like Hawking Radiation where a virtual particle becomes a real one with help from a black hole....

[hkmaly 490]

4 minutes ago, Scotty said:

28 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

And it would be good question

Yes, it COULD be explained in way which doesn't require Tess trying multiple times, but Occam's razor says it's more likely she tried multiple times - until we get more informations at least.

Either way, that Tess isn't the AF04 Tess, sooo...

... yeah, I apparently mixed them up.

4 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Oblivious wand universe Tess was born male, but through the use of magic became female (as well as changed a large number of things) and completely oblivious to the fact, claims she's tried out a male form at least once but decided she'd rather stay female.

 

How's that for a 7th universe?

Does it still make her trans-female if she's completely oblivious to the fact that she was born male? Or did the wand completely erase any aspect of that.

Of course we'll never know.

The wand is apparently doing retroactive changes - instead of changing something now, it makes it always changed (or at least changes everyone's memories as if that would be true). Auryn from Neverending story was also capable of that.

So, she WAS born female and WAS trying to turn into male.

 

[hkmaly 490]

15 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Either way, that Tess isn't the AF04 Tess, sooo...

Sorry for double post but found more info.

So, let's talk about AF4 Tess. She has as much interest in transformation as Tedd does, though she lacks the means to do much more than fantasize.

... sounds like she MIGHT be genderfluid, considering this was written before Dan known what genderfluid is ...

[Scotty 1,061]

7 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

So, she WAS born female and WAS trying to turn into male.

"Was trying" implies that Tess gave up. "But I think I'll stick with being girly" fits more with someone who was curious about what it would be like, and then after trying, decided it wasn't their thing.

3 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Sorry for double post but found more info.

So, let's talk about AF4 Tess. She has as much interest in transformation as Tedd does, though she lacks the means to do much more than fantasize.

... sounds like she MIGHT be genderfluid, considering this was written before Dan known what genderfluid is ...

Reading Tess' description there, Tess didn't experience the gender confusion that Tedd did, Tess was born female and despite being androgynous looking, the fact that she dressed female didn't get any reactions from anyone. Also the transformation interest Tess has seems to be related to size changes rather than gender change "Tess often wonders what it would be like to be bigger".  She may find other types of transformation interesting too, but if an Immortal were to mark her, she'd be more likely to get Rhoda's size changing spell rather than Tedd's gender changing spell.

[hkmaly 490]

17 minutes ago, Scotty said:

37 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

So, she WAS born female and WAS trying to turn into male.

"Was trying" implies that Tess gave up. "But I think I'll stick with being girly" fits more with someone who was curious about what it would be like, and then after trying, decided it wasn't their thing.

I repeat that my read of why she decided to stop was that she was not satisfied with being not-so-manly man.

17 minutes ago, Scotty said:

29 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Sorry for double post but found more info.

So, let's talk about AF4 Tess. She has as much interest in transformation as Tedd does, though she lacks the means to do much more than fantasize.

... sounds like she MIGHT be genderfluid, considering this was written before Dan known what genderfluid is ...

Reading Tess' description there, Tess didn't experience the gender confusion that Tedd did, Tess was born female and despite being androgynous looking, the fact that she dressed female didn't get any reactions from anyone. Also the transformation interest Tess has seems to be related to size changes rather than gender change "Tess often wonders what it would be like to be bigger".  She may find other types of transformation interesting too, but if an Immortal were to mark her, she'd be more likely to get Rhoda's size changing spell rather than Tedd's gender changing spell.

Hmmm ... true. In this case, Occam's razor is on your side and says it's more likely she has other kind of transformations on top of her list. That said, she probably WOULDN'T get Rhoda's size changing spell ; instead, she would get some general camouflage spell with minor size change (not breaking square-cube law, not sweet, not over limits of TF gun) being one of options. Would "male" be another option? Based on what we know, probably not. It definitely wouldn't be PERMANENT.

[Don Edwards 548]

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Oblivious wand universe Tess was born male, but through the use of magic became female (as well as changed a large number of things) and completely oblivious to the fact, claims she's tried out a male form at least once but decided she'd rather stay female.

The "oblivious wand waving" series involved retroactively changing the universe - which implies time travel. (As just one example of the retroactive changes, Tedd waved a wand and became Tess, and all Tedd's friends (as well as Tess herself) were unaware that anything had changed - Tess had always been Tess.) Time travel is one of the few things that are known to be impossible even with magic. Therefore, the series is non-canon for ANY canonical universe.

[Scotty 1,061]

2 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

The "oblivious wand waving" series involved retroactively changing the universe - which implies time travel. (As just one example of the retroactive changes, Tedd waved a wand and became Tess, and all Tedd's friends (as well as Tess herself) were unaware that anything had changed - Tess had always been Tess.) Time travel is one of the few things that are known to be impossible even with magic. Therefore, the series is non-canon for ANY canonical universe.

I would be more inclined to think that the wand swapped portions of one reality with portions of another with each use, so maybe the Oblivious Wand Waving universe is actually 2 universes connected by that wand and they routinely get interchanged by each of the wand's owners?

[hkmaly 490]

21 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

3 hours ago, Scotty said:

Oblivious wand universe Tess was born male, but through the use of magic became female (as well as changed a large number of things) and completely oblivious to the fact, claims she's tried out a male form at least once but decided she'd rather stay female.

The "oblivious wand waving" series involved retroactively changing the universe - which implies time travel. (As just one example of the retroactive changes, Tedd waved a wand and became Tess, and all Tedd's friends (as well as Tess herself) were unaware that anything had changed - Tess had always been Tess.) Time travel is one of the few things that are known to be impossible even with magic. Therefore, the series is non-canon for ANY canonical universe.

Technically it's not time travel but it would be forbidden by the same rule which forbids time travel in EGS universe because it's causality violation.

14 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I would be more inclined to think that the wand swapped portions of one reality with portions of another with each use, so maybe the Oblivious Wand Waving universe is actually 2 universes connected by that wand and they routinely get interchanged by each of the wand's owners?

Hmmmm ... no, that can't work. Every use would need to interchange very complex part of universe. Of course, it COULD've been explained by MULTIPLE universes, but ... the explanation would be that the wand doesn't actually change anything except what universe is currently shown on page.

(Which, frankly, is more solid explanation that those retroactive changes, as those retroactive changes would need to be quite complex to change universe just the correct way.)

 

[ChronosCat 155]

Or maybe when the wand makes changes it's just very thorough, changing not only memories but all the details of the world that might call those changed memories into question? The past itself could remained unchanged, and no one would know the difference.

[hkmaly 490]

34 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

Or maybe when the wand makes changes it's just very thorough, changing not only memories but all the details of the world that might call those changed memories into question? The past itself could remained unchanged, and no one would know the difference.

That would be obviously impossible to do inside universe which follows theory of relativity, but considering we don't know if EGS is such universe ...

... it would also explain why Adrian Raven noticed.

And, well ... I'm not sure if it would be harder than the retroactive changes.

[CritterKeeper 1,102]

54 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

Or maybe when the wand makes changes it's just very thorough, changing not only memories but all the details of the world that might call those changed memories into question? The past itself could remained unchanged, and no one would know the difference.

That was my take.  It's not that Tess has now always been female, it's that everyone remembers her always being female.

 

Also, having of course read through the whole story now, I still love Susan being above it all.  I really love that running gag.

[hkmaly 490]

2 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Also, having of course read through the whole story now, I still love Susan being above it all.  I really love that running gag.

Funny comparing Tedd's "experiment" with what happened when Susan ACTUALLY got transformation with bigger breast.

[Haylo 57]

8 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Funny comparing Tedd's "experiment" with what happened when Susan ACTUALLY got transformation with bigger breast.

The difference was that Tedd was there, as opposed to three young women all of whom  she probably felt more comfortable with...And the rather iffy continuity probably helped, too.