Story Monday April 9, 2018

[hkmaly 490]

4 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

The "I don't keep track of your pets" strip is what suggested to me that Shade-Tail is getting complacent.  It's an indication that Shade-Tail doesn't consider Nioi to be a threat to his manipulation of Lord Tedd.  and we've seen Nioi as a very proactive individual.

Unless, as I keep suggesting, he was just pretending he doesn't care where Nioi is.

4 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Running a "she's a manipulator" game against Nioi is itself a problem because it asks Lord Tedd to look for manipulators and consider what a manipulator is and how they operate.   Shade -Tail is best off with Lord Tedd being clueless. Anything that asks Lord Tedd to grow up and take responsibility for who is around him and what they're telling him is a threat to Shade-Tail's control...even if the asking comes from Shade-Tail. 

YES.

Nioi is nice to Lord Tedd. Sure, Shade Tail CAN say that she just pretends to be nice and wants to hurt Tedd, and he will probably be successful in convincing Tedd to get rid of her. BUT it will mean he shows Lord Tedd that pretending to be nice is possible. Shade Tail is in MUCH better position when Tedd isn't realizing that.

4 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Nioi likely knows what's up and realizes that she has the same problem.  Pointing out Shade-Tail as a manipulator will also allow Shade-Tail to say the same about her.  her best bet is to build up the hurt and damaged parts of Lord Tedd and hope he will see the truth himself. 

She's at worse position because Lord Tedd will still default to Shade Tail, but yes: even if she builds up her relationship with Lord Tedd to point where he would default to her, she would still be vulnerable by this. Even the "Lord Tedd sees the truth himself" can be dangerous to her ; she needs him not only capable of recognizing Shade Tail is using him, but also confident enough to not fear everyone else is also using him after that.

Which explains why she wants to sidestep the issue by getting rid of Shade Tail instead, despite the fact that it makes her manipulator AND it may even actually hurt their side.

 

[Vorlonagent 442]

17 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Unless, as I keep suggesting, he was just pretending he doesn't care where Nioi is.

It's possible.  Certainly he wasn't able to move against her or didn't think he could move against her when he and Lord Tedd had that talk.

One alternate possibility is Shade-Tail tried to kill Nioi and failed and that's why Nioi was traveling around other universes than her own, but I have no evidence for it.  I just throw it out as a theory that fits the facts.

19 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

YES.

Nioi is nice to Lord Tedd. Sure, Shade Tail CAN say that she just pretends to be nice and wants to hurt Tedd, and he will probably be successful in convincing Tedd to get rid of her. BUT it will mean he shows Lord Tedd that pretending to be nice is possible. Shade Tail is in MUCH better position when Tedd isn't realizing that.

Pretty much.  People are messy and hard to control, as Nazis, Soviets and the British Crown all found out. 

21 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

She's at worse position because Lord Tedd will still default to Shade Tail, but yes: even if she builds up her relationship with Lord Tedd to point where he would default to her, she would still be vulnerable by this. Even the "Lord Tedd sees the truth himself" can be dangerous to her ; she needs him not only capable of recognizing Shade Tail is using him, but also confident enough to not fear everyone else is also using him after that.

This is always the problem with a dictatorship of any size.  If there's power to be had, people who want it will act however they must to get it.  This is why many third-world autocracies are run by extended family of the dictator.  If Lord Tedd wants people around him he can trust he may well have to give up the power that attracts untrustworthy people to begin with.

35 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Which explains why she wants to sidestep the issue by getting rid of Shade Tail instead, despite the fact that it makes her manipulator AND it may even actually hurt their side.

Do we have reason to think Nioi actually trying to eject/eliminate Shade Tail?  My memory of the few comics with Lord Tedd, Nioi or Shade Tail in them is a little hazy.  It's certainly possible, however.

[hkmaly 490]

32 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

She's at worse position because Lord Tedd will still default to Shade Tail, but yes: even if she builds up her relationship with Lord Tedd to point where he would default to her, she would still be vulnerable by this. Even the "Lord Tedd sees the truth himself" can be dangerous to her ; she needs him not only capable of recognizing Shade Tail is using him, but also confident enough to not fear everyone else is also using him after that.

This is always the problem with a dictatorship of any size.  If there's power to be had, people who want it will act however they must to get it.  This is why many third-world autocracies are run by extended family of the dictator.  If Lord Tedd wants people around him he can trust he may well have to give up the power that attracts untrustworthy people to begin with.

Actually, there is another problem with a dictatorship you failed to take into account: giving up power is something which happens when you die. I don't think Lord Tedd CAN give up power and survive that. Well, maybe if he escapes to different universe.

Also, it would be irresponsible. Most likely, general Shade Tail or someone even worse would fill the power vacuum. Even if Tedd's power is based on some tools he is able to destroy so they won't end up in bad hands, it wouldn't help. Moving from dictatorship to something at least resembling democracy is hard and require some group which can be trusted.

(Most real cases of moving to democracy involve giving power to group which claims to be democratic and when it turns it wasn't, well, better luck next time. It can be seen fantastically on France.)

32 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Which explains why she wants to sidestep the issue by getting rid of Shade Tail instead, despite the fact that it makes her manipulator AND it may even actually hurt their side.

Do we have reason to think Nioi actually trying to eject/eliminate Shade Tail?  My memory of the few comics with Lord Tedd, Nioi or Shade Tail in them is a little hazy.  It's certainly possible, however.

Well her original motivation of coming to main universe was to find out if Dr. Sciuridae is alive there and knows how to defeat general Shade Tail ...

[Vorlonagent 442]

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Actually, there is another problem with a dictatorship you failed to take into account: giving up power is something which happens when you die. I don't think Lord Tedd CAN give up power and survive that. Well, maybe if he escapes to different universe.

Also, it would be irresponsible. Most likely, general Shade Tail or someone even worse would fill the power vacuum. Even if Tedd's power is based on some tools he is able to destroy so they won't end up in bad hands, it wouldn't help. Moving from dictatorship to something at least resembling democracy is hard and require some group which can be trusted.

(Most real cases of moving to democracy involve giving power to group which claims to be democratic and when it turns it wasn't, well, better luck next time. It can be seen fantastically on France.)

Democracy is actually a very random and frustrating form of government.  It has a great marketing team but you really do have to read the manual and install all the security fixes.   One of the hardest problems transitioning from autocracy to democracy is that the people are still acclimated to autocratic methods of getting things done.  It's very tempting to get frustrated with democracy and go autocratic or just decide "now it's my chance to rule" and not bother to begin with.  I think this is what happened to Russia despite the recent sham elections there.

We also get the "1-vote democracy " from this kind of thing, where the people finally get a vote, kick out the old authorities, and the new government decides that's enough elections.  This is what happened in the Palestinian Gaza when the Palestinian Authority was voted out and Hamas was voted in.

I am making the possibly flawed assumption that Lord Tedd grew up in a roughly 21st century environment and that he established an autocracy in the US with the means to make it stick.  If true, there might still be a US government that could fill the power vacuum left by Lord Tedd, should he have an attack of conscience and step down. 

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Well her original motivation of coming to main universe was to find out if Dr. Sciuridae is alive there and knows how to defeat general Shade Tail ...

I told you my memory was hazy... 

Idle speculation: An Uryouom TF Gun stabilizes a Greater Seynoulu's ability to transform in a lot of ways.  Can a device be built that puts a greater syenolu back in his pre-TF-Gun state?  It wouldn't stop General Shade-Tail but it would literally and figuratively slow him down...
 

[hkmaly 490]

2 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Democracy is actually a very random and frustrating form of government.  It has a great marketing team but you really do have to read the manual and install all the security fixes.   One of the hardest problems transitioning from autocracy to democracy is that the people are still acclimated to autocratic methods of getting things done.  It's very tempting to get frustrated with democracy and go autocratic or just decide "now it's my chance to rule" and not bother to begin with.  I think this is what happened to Russia despite the recent sham elections there.

I wouldn't be that polite. I'm SURE that's what happened in Russia.

2 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

I am making the possibly flawed assumption that Lord Tedd grew up in a roughly 21st century environment and that he established an autocracy in the US with the means to make it stick.  If true, there might still be a US government that could fill the power vacuum left by Lord Tedd, should he have an attack of conscience and step down. 

He grew up there, yes. However, I don't think there is any US government left.

While it might be just general Shade Tail isolating Lord Tedd, there was sort of post-apocalyptic feel in those few images we got of their world. My speculation is that there was big war there, possibly related to magic reset. Maybe magic reset with five thousand seers ...

And Lord Tedd became Lord not only because he has the power, but also because the population of US is just one tenth of before-war, and that's only because US-based seers like Lord Tedd and Lord Arthur (deceased ; no provable connection to Shade Tail ) won ; other countries ended worse (*cough* Moscow sea *cough*).

[CritterKeeper 1,102]

....I always get a little nervous when I see such elaborate fanon being spun based on so little actual data.  I've seen far too many times when the actual canon differs from what people have built up in their heads or fanfics, and the people who'd invested so much into their own speculations and were so certain they had "figured out" what was "true"/"real", when contradicted, left the fandom in a huff, declaring that the author had gotten everything wrong, not them.

*cough*HarryHermioneShippers*cough*

Mind you, it still stings that the Rihannsu weren't embraced by the ST:TNG writers....

[ChronosCat 155]

12 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

]I am making the possibly flawed assumption that Lord Tedd grew up in a roughly 21st century environment and that he established an autocracy in the US with the means to make it stick.  If true, there might still be a US government that could fill the power vacuum left by Lord Tedd, should he have an attack of conscience and step down.

The only evidence we have for Lord Tedd having a position of political power is his title of "Lord" and Shade Tale's title of "General" - and without having encountered anyone from that world not a part of Lord Tedd''s group, we have no way of knowing under what authority (if any) they assumed those titles. Personally, I'm not ready to assume that Lord Tedd rules anything.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

48 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

Personally, I'm not ready to assume that Lord Tedd rules anything.

You need to have some manner of realistic claim or the title will not mean anything. I, for example, am an actual Time Lord. I am the undisputed ruler of October 13, 1982.

[ChronosCat 155]

1 hour ago, The Old Hack said:

You need to have some manner of realistic claim or the title will not mean anything. I, for example, am an actual Time Lord. I am the undisputed ruler of October 13, 1982.

Good for you! Should I ask your permission if I want to visit that day, or just pay my respects when I get there?

That reminds me, I don't think I've mentioned it since I returned to the forums, but I used to call myself "Master of Time" because I'm the best time traveler I know.

[The Old Hack 2,448]

1 hour ago, ChronosCat said:

Good for you! Should I ask your permission if I want to visit that day, or just pay my respects when I get there?

Eh, don't worry too much about it. I have it filed in the category of past glories.

1 hour ago, ChronosCat said:

That reminds me, I don't think I've mentioned it since I returned to the forums, but I used to call myself "Master of Time" because I'm the best time traveler I know.

I am certainly not disputing that. I am the worst time traveller I know.

[Vorlonagent 442]

5 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

You need to have some manner of realistic claim or the title will not mean anything. I, for example, am an actual Time Lord. I am the undisputed ruler of October 13, 1982.

Oh so YOU'RE responsible for that Oktoberfest incident...we'll be looking for you when we start....The Hunt for Red Hacktober...

8 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

....I always get a little nervous when I see such elaborate fanon being spun based on so little actual data.  I've seen far too many times when the actual canon differs from what people have built up in their heads or fanfics, and the people who'd invested so much into their own speculations and were so certain they had "figured out" what was "true"/"real", when contradicted, left the fandom in a huff, declaring that the author had gotten everything wrong, not them.

I'm playing it more like an intelligence analyst.  What reasonable conclusions can I tease out of how tenuous a set of facts?  Sometimes I speculate outside the facts but I keep the distinction in my head.

6 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

The only evidence we have for Lord Tedd having a position of political power is his title of "Lord" and Shade Tale's title of "General" - and without having encountered anyone from that world not a part of Lord Tedd''s group, we have no way of knowing under what authority (if any) they assumed those titles. Personally, I'm not ready to assume that Lord Tedd rules anything.

...which is entirely reasonable.  Lord Tedd could be calling himself that in a super-villain way.  As if he's the "Lord of All Tedds" or something like that. 

Except Shade-Tail does use "m'lud" when talking to Lord Tedd.  That is what suggests LT has some kind of actual authority.  I hasten to add it doesn't prove it, but it holds out the possibility.  We also have Nioi referring to Lord Ted in the privacy of her own mind as "master".  Lord Tedd could more like a cult leader than running an actual nation.  It just seems like there's some kind of organization there with Lord Tedd at the top.  One large enough to have an army with a "General". 

16 hours ago, hkmaly said:

While it might be just general Shade Tail isolating Lord Tedd, there was sort of post-apocalyptic feel in those few images we got of their world. My speculation is that there was big war there, possibly related to magic reset. Maybe magic reset with five thousand seers ...

And Lord Tedd became Lord not only because he has the power, but also because the population of US is just one tenth of before-war, and that's only because US-based seers like Lord Tedd and Lord Arthur (deceased ; no provable connection to Shade Tail ) won ; other countries ended worse (*cough* Moscow sea *cough*).

The important point to pick out is Lord Tedd's organization, however big or not it is, feels isolated, and independent.  Rather than inserting a post-apocalyptic scenario, I look around for other EGS continuity I can stick onto that feeling.  Damian was supposed to be the "lord of Fire" prophesied to unite the Seynoulu.  People have speculated for years that this might actually be Tedd, so why not make it true with Lord Tedd, running a cult/empire of Seynoulu?

maybe they're HQed in the remains of the Shady Corporation where Shade-Tail and his brothers were created.  maybe somewhere else.  I find it amusing though I have no evidence for it that Lord Tedd's headquarters are still in his dad's house's basement.  Just drilled out and massively expanded.  Since second life has Kaoli living openly, and Nioi is a part of Lord Tedd's world, I choose to believe that Lord Tedd's universe is a darker reflection of Second Life.   In a world where magic and aliens are much more common, Lord Tedd's magitech might give him the ability to force the US government to keep its distance.  again, I don't have evidence.  all I claim is this is a theory that fits the facts.

[Pharaoh RutinTutin 1,586]

Perhaps Lord Tedd does not rule his native reality?

"Lord Tedd" and "General Shade Tale" may be what they call themselves when they are playing games.

If those two, as children, discovered a way to remotely view and manipulate alternate realities, they may have begun their reign of terror with no more malicious intent than a couch potato playing Pacman.

[Vorlonagent 442]

1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Perhaps Lord Tedd does not rule his native reality?

"Lord Tedd" and "General Shade Tale" may be what they call themselves when they are playing games.

If those two, as children, discovered a way to remotely view and manipulate alternate realities, they may have begun their reign of terror with no more malicious intent than a couch potato playing Pacman.

Or another game....

[hkmaly 490]

11 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

and the people who'd invested so much into their own speculations

Don't worry, it only took me few minutes.

4 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

again, I don't have evidence.  all I claim is this is a theory that fits the facts.

... so do I. Is easy because we have very little facts.

2 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

3 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

If those two, as children, discovered a way to remotely view and manipulate alternate realities, they may have begun their reign of terror with no more malicious intent than a couch potato playing Pacman.

Or another game....

Most strategic games and many others allow player to start reign of terror ... meanwhile, only few allow him to start democracy build upon principles of liberty, equality and fraternity. Even the Sid Meier's Civilization with it's "totally democracy but you remain in control for several centuries" doesn't exactly look fair ...

[Don Edwards 548]

12 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

....I always get a little nervous when I see such elaborate fanon being spun based on so little actual data.

But it can be fun! Wapsi Square spawned the Extended Wapsiverse, which now has several recognized significant differences from canon - one character, in particular, is in a lesbian sexual/romantic relationship with a satyr in the canon but is married to a male centaur in the EW.

[Vorlonagent 442]

1 hour ago, Don Edwards said:

But it can be fun! Wapsi Square spawned the Extended Wapsiverse, which now has several recognized significant differences from canon - one character, in particular, is in a lesbian sexual/romantic relationship with a satyr in the canon but is married to a male centaur in the EW.

it helps that the creator has pretty much reduced his entire original cast to guest star and walk-on roles...