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Stature

Story Wednesday April 11, 2018

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2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

I'm still surprised SUSAN didn't learned how to use sword properly.

I'm not so surprised. In canon, Susan didn't actually fight with a sword until she killed the first vampire at the mall. I think the only other times Susan summoned a sword in canon were:

  1. In Sister when Susan summoned a sword during the second fight with the Goo, but didn't use it.)
  2. In Hammerchlorians, during the flashback to what happened in France and again to demonstrate to Sarah and Grace that she doesn't have the same sword.
  3. Earlier in Sister III when Susan found out there had been seven different vampires in Moperville.

I think it might be worth noting that while Susan has "a couple" of swords, she didn't mention having an axe. Axes are a lot easier to come by than real swords. Why? Maybe because killing her first vampire with an axe has something to do with it.

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I feel like we're building up to a twist here... nothing as extreme as Ellen taking him up on it, but not the reaction Elliot (and we) are expecting.

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1 minute ago, WR...S said:

I feel like we're building up to a twist here.

Well, Fridays are supposed to have twists. Kind of like Star Trek TOS, which always tried to put in some kind of cliffhanger before each commercial break.

Maybe the twist will be that this comic is actually the last comic in Elliots and Ellens. The whole of this chapter has had just five characters, and bringing in someone new after so long doesn't seem like it would match up very well.

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Actually Nanase would be FORCED to join by her mother.

I suspect not. I rather think she would strongly disapprove of the way these girls were taught. Even so, it would be mandated by the State that they join. Just as with the Hitlerjugend, there was no easy way around. Still, exactly Susan and Nanase are the sort of people to make any organisation rue compulsory enlistment.

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12 hours ago, hkmaly said:

He's probably from that universe where young boys/girls are not becoming scouts but Hitlerjugend because the Third Reich won the war.

 

10 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

The girls would have joined the Bund Deutscher Mädel. And who says there's only one Nazi universe? GURPS had six official ones the last time I checked.

 

7 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

No they bollocking wouldn't. I don't see any version of Nanase or Susan tamely joining an organisation dedicated to turn them into good little obedient homemakers. At least, not planning to leave it intact.

 

2 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

I suspect not. I rather think she would strongly disapprove of the way these girls were taught. Even so, it would be mandated by the State that they join. Just as with the Hitlerjugend, there was no easy way around. Still, exactly Susan and Nanase are the sort of people to make any organisation rue compulsory enlistment.

Let's see...based on what we've seen in the canon....

Susan was openly outspoken against the school uniforms from the moment they were announced, tried to get others to join her protests, and readily accepted that she would be punished for it.  She might well have been an open dissenter.  Which would mean she'd probably end up somewhere from ostracized to killed, depending on the regime.

However, there is a darker possibility.  Susan also bought into her mother's militant male-hating version of feminism for years, letting it shape most of her actions and associations.  I could, sadly, see this potentially applying to a Nazi type view instead, in some alternate universe.  Susan might embrace the tenents, approving of the BDM's encouraging girls in athleticism, job training, and education.  If the Nazi views took the place of feminist views in this other Susan's life, then she might even embrace the goal of women being helpmates and support staff.  However, just as our Susan changed her views when presented with evidence to the contrary, this alternate Susan would eventually see through the Nazi propaganda and indoctrination, and once she did, she would accept she'd been wrong, and find some way to fight against it.  Only question would be whether it would be openly or underground -- Susan isn't so good at subtlety or dissembling, so I suspect she'd be open about it, and again, likely getting ostracized and eventually killed.

What about Nanase?  She spent years following along with her mother's wishes, being an excellent student, trilingual, dressing conservatively and not protesting the homemaker role too openly.  However, when her mother wasn't around, she began changing into clothing she knew her mother would disapprove of.  I could see Nanase being a good little BDM in public, but rebelling in the shadows, possibly joining some sort of fifth column group.  If she knew Susan in this version, she might even be able to get her involved more discreetly once she discovered her change of heart.

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Just now, hkmaly said:

I'm still surprised SUSAN didn't learned how to use sword properly.

Susan wanted to keep what happened in France from her mom, so it's understandable that she wouldn't suddenly ask to get sword fighting lessons, or anything that would make her mom suspicious.

Just now, hkmaly said:

That new class wouldn't help, as it wouldn't cover ANY magic stuff, just ordinary martial arts.

There's still the private classes Greg gives Ellen and Grace that focus on magic and Grace's abilities.

Just now, hkmaly said:

Not yet.

While Will of magic gave up keeping the secrecy and adapted to magic eventually going public, DGB didn't gave up yet and would likely try to keep magic secret as long as possible even when they realize it wouldn't be that long.

But eventually, yes ; if DGB won't employ Greg itself to train new agents (because it WILL need more agents now), soon he will be able to open again because his at least little controlled approach would be better than no control at all.

I was just saying the potential is there for Greg to reopen his Dojo.

The secrecy will only hold for so long before more and more people realize how easy it'd be to get magic. It'd probably be prudent to set up programs that could guide people in both being responsible magic users and prepare them for career opportunities related to magic, basically like Magus' battle mage classes. There's of course no guarantee it would prevent anyone from using magic to do bad things, that's already happening, but what about countries that attempt to harness magic for military purposes? This is a global issue now and while most governments had been decent with keeping the secrecy, if they find out how much hard it just got to keep it secret, they might just start taking advantage of it.

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8 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

I suspect not. I rather think she would strongly disapprove of the way these girls were taught. Even so, it would be mandated by the State that they join. Just as with the Hitlerjugend, there was no easy way around. Still, exactly Susan and Nanase are the sort of people to make any organisation rue compulsory enlistment.

That is one thing that does bother me about some alt-universe plotlines, especially the ones where Germany one and the heroes of our universe are all villains in the other universe.  If that one event changed, it seems to me that what made someone heroic in our universe might enable them to see the villainy in their universe and fight it.  So yeah, I can easily see Susan and Nanase being part of something, even secretly, that would be diametrically opposed to the establishment of a Nazi alt-universe.

And yes, I know that there is some plot gold in the notion that the heroes are now bad guys and some of the bad guys might be heroes and maybe you get to showcase some new heroes and the audience might groove to that, but... all of the heroes are now bad guys and enjoy being bad guys?  Ugh.

Also, just sort of got around to remembering that Magus is most likely a wizard (or at the very least someone who has had magic for a longer time then our guys) and thus has a heftier spellbook, which definitely makes him potentially more powerful in some ways, but I do wonder what he would be like against a more experience magic user or a wizard of moperverse?  How much bonus does he get from being in an academy for combat magic and being able to openly spar with magic?  Does DGB have something similar?  I suppose also you get the benefit of "many eyes make all bugs shallow" solutions to magical problems since far more people are using and researching magic in Magus' verse.  So maybe not more powerful magic but more elegant or advanced?

Then again, I wonder if they have gotten around Scarf Aberration's solution to the issue of magic users (in a fight between magic user and gunfighter, who wins)?  And I suppose this has been posited before, if Magus' universe has all that magic, where does their technology stand?  If magic has worked as a solution to your problems like dragon raids, how much technology would you develop?  Unless a dragon is truly impervious to non-magic weaponry, I would think dragons might have been hunted to extinction with the advent of things like jets and tanks and missiles.  I suppose Magus must have some way to deal with technology, otherwise Pandora's warning of a Hawk and Mice wouldn't make much sense (though a Indiana Jone's style scene between Magus and Edward Verres, where Magus does some sort of kung fu like moves with accompanying lightshow of special effects, and Edward just pulls a taser and stuns him would be priceless).

Hmm, I seem to be rambling; that's some good coffee.

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16 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

That's what I was getting at -- Nanase isn't exactly a well-trained expert in flying fisticuffs either.  She and Elliot would need to either find an airborne combat expert to train them, or work things out by trial and error, probably with Greg's help.  Hmm, maybe he'd have the same sort of insight he had when he invented ASMA in the first place?

Yes, I can see this.  If he hasn't been exposed to the right kind of anime, find some with flying combat or throw in some superhero genre stuff.  With enough exposure he will work out an extension system of flight-based martial arts.  And probably also develop some sort of flying ability as well.

Either that or find a way to steal a copy of the curriculum from Magus' universe's magic schools.  Hmm, Beta Tedd's dimensional scope would have been helpful in that respect.  Hmm, by now he might have developed an interdimensional internet browser, then you could look up the appropriate alt-universe youtube instructional videos.

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2 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

Also some alt-universe YouTube "instructional" videos planted by alt-universe-Putin's hackers. Let's open up another big-ol'-can-o-worms.

The Moderator: Let us not. We are getting a wee bit close to RL politics here and they do not belong in the story comics threads, please.

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On an unrelated note does anyone know how we can send packages to Dan? I would like to introduce him to the wonderful world of Brandon Sanderson’s Cosmere.

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15 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:
15 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I'm still surprised SUSAN didn't learned how to use sword properly.

I'm not so surprised. In canon, Susan didn't actually fight with a sword until she killed the first vampire at the mall. I think the only other times Susan summoned a sword in canon were:

  1. In Sister when Susan summoned a sword during the second fight with the Goo, but didn't use it.)
  2. In Hammerchlorians, during the flashback to what happened in France and again to demonstrate to Sarah and Grace that she doesn't have the same sword.
  3. Earlier in Sister III when Susan found out there had been seven different vampires in Moperville.

I think it might be worth noting that while Susan has "a couple" of swords, she didn't mention having an axe. Axes are a lot easier to come by than real swords. Why? Maybe because killing her first vampire with an axe has something to do with it.

I'm pretty sure she's using her sword against Goo here, but you don't actually need to learn anything to fight against goo. She probably DID summoned the sword on other occasions but not for real fight, yes ... still, the reason why she has the swords in first place is because she's afraid more vampires will find her. For the same reason, it would make sense for her to learn how to use the swords.

But there IS explanation, actually: maybe she DID tried to learn swordfighting by watching movies or something, and was confident it would be enough until she found it isn't.

She DID mentioned she has some tools, and axes as WEAPONS are harder to find than swords ; what is easier to find are wood-cutting axes, which aren't good in fight, and fire-fighters axes, which might be usable but still counts more like tools ...

... yes, she might avoid axes due to her first vampire ... or because axes are HEAVY. It's also possible she DOES have axe in the trunk but doesn't want to talk about it.

Also, EVERYONE knows that sword-fighting is a thing. The fact that fighting with battle axes allowed for more finesse than woodcutting is less known.

15 hours ago, WR...S said:

I feel like we're building up to a twist here... nothing as extreme as Ellen taking him up on it, but not the reaction Elliot (and we) are expecting.

Ellen admitting she would like to try might be little twist ... but I'm still waiting for the artifacts.

10 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

I could, sadly, see this potentially applying to a Nazi type view instead, in some alternate universe.  Susan might embrace the tenents, approving of the BDM's encouraging girls in athleticism, job training, and education.  If the Nazi views took the place of feminist views in this other Susan's life, then she might even embrace the goal of women being helpmates and support staff.

I could also see the alternative of Susan somehow forcing herself into Hitlerjugend even if she would be first girl to do so. Her mother would support her at that, and she's scary.

10 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

What about Nanase?  She spent years following along with her mother's wishes, being an excellent student, trilingual, dressing conservatively and not protesting the homemaker role too openly.  However, when her mother wasn't around, she began changing into clothing she knew her mother would disapprove of.  I could see Nanase being a good little BDM in public, but rebelling in the shadows, possibly joining some sort of fifth column group.  If she knew Susan in this version, she might even be able to get her involved more discreetly once she discovered her change of heart.

Yes. Nanase would be great for this, although it would mean she would get even MORE hiding spells.

8 hours ago, Scotty said:

Susan wanted to keep what happened in France from her mom, so it's understandable that she wouldn't suddenly ask to get sword fighting lessons, or anything that would make her mom suspicious.

Obviously, she couldn't ask right after returning, but there must've been other occasions later which would be less suspicious. And I don't think her mother would take too much convincing to let Susan work on her self-defense skills. On the other hand, it was just two years and the classes might only open on start of school year ...

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

I was just saying the potential is there for Greg to reopen his Dojo.

I was just saying it may take few years.

9 hours ago, Scotty said:

The secrecy will only hold for so long before more and more people realize how easy it'd be to get magic. It'd probably be prudent to set up programs that could guide people in both being responsible magic users and prepare them for career opportunities related to magic, basically like Magus' battle mage classes. There's of course no guarantee it would prevent anyone from using magic to do bad things, that's already happening, but what about countries that attempt to harness magic for military purposes? This is a global issue now and while most governments had been decent with keeping the secrecy, if they find out how much hard it just got to keep it secret, they might just start taking advantage of it.

Nothing the will of magic did will make keeping secret that much harder. And Arthur Arthur already mentioned that the real secret is ACCESSIBILITY of magic, not existence. Sure, he had other plans, but it may be the best thing to do now - keep the secret just few years and prepare detailed plans for the inevitable revelation. Note the Arthur Arthur have big advantage now against all other governments who didn't have seers on meeting, and he likely WILL transform this to advantage for DGB (and presumably US).

5 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:

That is one thing that does bother me about some alt-universe plotlines, especially the ones where Germany one and the heroes of our universe are all villains in the other universe.  If that one event changed, it seems to me that what made someone heroic in our universe might enable them to see the villainy in their universe and fight it.  So yeah, I can easily see Susan and Nanase being part of something, even secretly, that would be diametrically opposed to the establishment of a Nazi alt-universe.

In reality, if just one event would change (but several generations ago), EVERYTHING would be different and noone resembling specific people in our universe would exist in that parallel one. Butterfly effect and stuff. But making same actors play their counterparts, just with more facial hair and different outfits, is easier for production AND allows more interesting plot for viewers.

5 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:

Also, just sort of got around to remembering that Magus is most likely a wizard (or at the very least someone who has had magic for a longer time then our guys) and thus has a heftier spellbook, which definitely makes him potentially more powerful in some ways, but I do wonder what he would be like against a more experience magic user or a wizard of moperverse?  How much bonus does he get from being in an academy for combat magic and being able to openly spar with magic?  Does DGB have something similar?  I suppose also you get the benefit of "many eyes make all bugs shallow" solutions to magical problems since far more people are using and researching magic in Magus' verse.  So maybe not more powerful magic but more elegant or advanced?

It is likely that Magus's universe magic is more researched. However, it's also completely different: the magic rules of his universe are likely different than in EGS main universe, making any comparison very difficult.

I still don't believe he would have chance against Noriko.

5 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:

Then again, I wonder if they have gotten around Scarf Aberration's solution to the issue of magic users (in a fight between magic user and gunfighter, who wins)?  And I suppose this has been posited before, if Magus' universe has all that magic, where does their technology stand?  If magic has worked as a solution to your problems like dragon raids, how much technology would you develop?  Unless a dragon is truly impervious to non-magic weaponry, I would think dragons might have been hunted to extinction with the advent of things like jets and tanks and missiles.  I suppose Magus must have some way to deal with technology, otherwise Pandora's warning of a Hawk and Mice wouldn't make much sense (though a Indiana Jone's style scene between Magus and Edward Verres, where Magus does some sort of kung fu like moves with accompanying lightshow of special effects, and Edward just pulls a taser and stuns him would be priceless).

Magus's comment about not knowing how car works suggest that they indeed has less technology than we do. However, I would remind the Lina Inverse answer about gunpowder (paraphrased, can't find it): It's not worth working with it, as gunpowder based bombs and weapons are weak compared to magic based explosions.

Sure, Lina Inverse's spells are very OP and Magus is unlikely to have that much destructive power, but still, developing technology to point where it's actually useful against magic user with fireballs - and magic SHIELDS - would be hard. And, yes, dragons might be impervious to non-magic weaponry.

And the answer? The one who can combine both has ALWAYS advantage against someone who has JUST magic or JUST technology.

(Although to counter Lina Inverse's Giga Slave you probably need some really heavy calibre. Maybe cosmic string?)

6 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:
22 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Hmm, maybe he'd have the same sort of insight he had when he invented ASMA in the first place?

Yes, I can see this.  If he hasn't been exposed to the right kind of anime, find some with flying combat or throw in some superhero genre stuff.  With enough exposure he will work out an extension system of flight-based martial arts.  And probably also develop some sort of flying ability as well.

That "insight" was probably his awakening. And I don't think he didn't saw any anime with flying combat.

 

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8 hours ago, Tuscahoma said:

That is one thing that does bother me about some alt-universe plotlines, especially the ones where Germany one and the heroes of our universe are all villains in the other universe.  If that one event changed, it seems to me that what made someone heroic in our universe might enable them to see the villainy in their universe and fight it.  So yeah, I can easily see Susan and Nanase being part of something, even secretly, that would be diametrically opposed to the establishment of a Nazi alt-universe.

And yes, I know that there is some plot gold in the notion that the heroes are now bad guys and some of the bad guys might be heroes and maybe you get to showcase some new heroes and the audience might groove to that, but... all of the heroes are now bad guys and enjoy being bad guys?  Ugh.

"Mirror" Universes can be fun, but they work best when the series is one with simplistic morality and not particularly deep world building; the more nuanced the characters and the more realistic the world building, the less sense it makes that everything could just be flipped morally like that.

I've never actually encountered a story where the Axis powers winning WWII led to the heroes becoming villains, and I'm glad of it, as that's pretty silly. Not everyone who lived in Nazi Germany (or Imperial Japan, or any other totalitarian state past or present) was (or is) evil, and if events went similarly enough to the main timeline for "alternate versions" of the main characters to exist at all, chances are their personalities wouldn't be all that different either. Of course there are circumstances in real life that can turn seemingly kind and morally upright people into monsters, and I wouldn't fault a story for using alternate universes to explore that, but to do that idea justice the story would have to treat the matter far too seriously to get any mileage out of the fun of seeing "bad guy" versions of "good guys".

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11 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Yes. Nanase would be great for this, although it would mean she would get even MORE hiding spells.

Hmm, a totalitarian state that was aware of magic would likely demand to see spellcasters' spellbooks.

11 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Obviously, she couldn't ask right after returning, but there must've been other occasions later which would be less suspicious. And I don't think her mother would take too much convincing to let Susan work on her self-defense skills. On the other hand, it was just two years and the classes might only open on start of school year ...

Eastern Martial Arts tend to get the most attention, but there are a few places that teach western Europe martial arts, i.e. knights and swordplay and such...

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On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 11:46 PM, Scotty said:

though considering magic being opened up now, Greg could probably restart the ASMA course (under a new name possibly) and get more students.

One of Greg's biggest problems with getting students is he doesn't know why it worked for him, Elliot, Nanase, and Justin. It didn't work for any of his other students. Unless he can figure out why, he's going to struggle to keep students.

18 hours ago, hkmaly said:
On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 1:57 AM, Tom Sewell said:
On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 1:34 AM, hkmaly said:

I'm still surprised SUSAN didn't learned how to use sword properly.

I'm not so surprised. In canon, Susan didn't actually fight with a sword until she killed the first vampire at the mall. I think the only other times Susan summoned a sword in canon were:

  1. In Sister when Susan summoned a sword during the second fight with the Goo, but didn't use it.)
  2. In Hammerchlorians, during the flashback to what happened in France and again to demonstrate to Sarah and Grace that she doesn't have the same sword.
  3. Earlier in Sister III when Susan found out there had been seven different vampires in Moperville.

I think it might be worth noting that while Susan has "a couple" of swords, she didn't mention having an axe. Axes are a lot easier to come by than real swords. Why? Maybe because killing her first vampire with an axe has something to do with it.

I'm pretty sure she's using her sword against Goo here, but you don't actually need to learn anything to fight against goo. She probably DID summoned the sword on other occasions but not for real fight, yes ... still, the reason why she has the swords in first place is because she's afraid more vampires will find her. For the same reason, it would make sense for her to learn how to use the swords.

But there IS explanation, actually: maybe she DID tried to learn swordfighting by watching movies or something, and was confident it would be enough until she found it isn't.

She DID mentioned she has some tools, and axes as WEAPONS are harder to find than swords ; what is easier to find are wood-cutting axes, which aren't good in fight, and fire-fighters axes, which might be usable but still counts more like tools ...

... yes, she might avoid axes due to her first vampire ... or because axes are HEAVY. It's also possible she DOES have axe in the trunk but doesn't want to talk about it.

Also, EVERYONE knows that sword-fighting is a thing. The fact that fighting with battle axes allowed for more finesse than woodcutting is less known.

Using a sword is easy (stick the sharp end into the thing that you want to stop living). It's using a sword well and with competence that requires extensive training. My guess is that Susan expected her knowledge of how a sword basically works, the fact that aberrations are weak to magical weapons, and her experience with the stun hammers(In the scenes were she uses the sword in the mall, it seems like she's swinging it like she would swing a hammer) would be enough. Wouldn't be the first time Susan had an expectation that turned out to be untrue.

The problem with her relying on her hammer experience is that while hammers and swords have similar strike motions (swinging the striking end towards your target), they function very differently as weapons. Hammers tend to favor wide, powerful swings that maximize the effect of their weight, while swords tend to favor much swifter and more complex motions to slip through defenses and slice through the target.

19 hours ago, hkmaly said:
On ‎4‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 0:06 PM, Tuscahoma said:
On ‎4‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 7:39 PM, CritterKeeper said:

Hmm, maybe he'd have the same sort of insight he had when he invented ASMA in the first place?

Yes, I can see this.  If he hasn't been exposed to the right kind of anime, find some with flying combat or throw in some superhero genre stuff.  With enough exposure he will work out an extension system of flight-based martial arts.  And probably also develop some sort of flying ability as well.

That "insight" was probably his awakening. And I don't think he didn't saw any anime with flying combat.

It might have been his awakening. The only official word we have on whether or not Greg is awakened is basically a non-committal shrug. 

I would be surprised if Greg never saw Dragonball Z, given it's extremely popular in the US and I think is the anime responsible for kicking of the anime boom here in the US.

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Just now, Drasvin said:

One of Greg's biggest problems with getting students is he doesn't know why it worked for him, Elliot, Nanase, and Justin. It didn't work for any of his other students. Unless he can figure out why, he's going to struggle to keep students.

The reason that Greg closed the ASMA dojo was because he talked to Edward about how Elliot, Nanase, Justin and himself got their abilities. So while Greg originally didn't know how he got his abilities, Edward telling him how, plus stressing how easy it'd be for others to get it, Greg considered himself lucky that his training only produced results in those three and he didn't want to continue if there was a possibility of someone using their training to get some bad spells and do bad things with them.

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17 minutes ago, Scotty said:
23 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

One of Greg's biggest problems with getting students is he doesn't know why it worked for him, Elliot, Nanase, and Justin. It didn't work for any of his other students. Unless he can figure out why, he's going to struggle to keep students.

The reason that Greg closed the ASMA dojo was because he talked to Edward about how Elliot, Nanase, Justin and himself got their abilities. So while Greg originally didn't know how he got his abilities, Edward telling him how, plus stressing how easy it'd be for others to get it, Greg considered himself lucky that his training only produced results in those three and he didn't want to continue if there was a possibility of someone using their training to get some bad spells and do bad things with them.

While that is a principal reason (if not the principal reason) for him to close his dojo, I'm not sure Edward would be able to tell him why his training worked for some people and not for others. From what Edward has mentioned on panel before, all you need to get magic is to work hard or get lucky(or unlucky, depending on ones view of Immortals and their machinations). Special qualities can help with certain avenues of power, but aren't needed to get magic. Greg lost all his other students because what he was doing didn't work for them. If he can't figure out why his training works for some and not others, he would have trouble keeping enough students to be able to afford to keep the dojo open.

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2 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

While that is a principal reason (if not the principal reason) for him to close his dojo, I'm not sure Edward would be able to tell him why his training worked for some people and not for others. From what Edward has mentioned on panel before, all you need to get magic is to work hard or get lucky(or unlucky, depending on ones view of Immortals and their machinations). Special qualities can help with certain avenues of power, but aren't needed to get magic. Greg lost all his other students because what he was doing didn't work for them. If he can't figure out why his training works for some and not others, he would have trouble keeping enough students to be able to afford to keep the dojo open.

Edward told Elliot and Ellen what the training did for them in terms of their awakenings, what would be preventing Edward from telling Greg, Greg has magic so Edward would need to make sure Greg was in the know about how he got it so that he understood the need for secrecy. It's possible that Greg even went to Edward to ask how his training only worked for 3 people with Edward saying "you should feel lucky it's only worked for those particular three, it would have made my job a lot worse."

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1 minute ago, Scotty said:
13 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

While that is a principal reason (if not the principal reason) for him to close his dojo, I'm not sure Edward would be able to tell him why his training worked for some people and not for others. From what Edward has mentioned on panel before, all you need to get magic is to work hard or get lucky(or unlucky, depending on ones view of Immortals and their machinations). Special qualities can help with certain avenues of power, but aren't needed to get magic. Greg lost all his other students because what he was doing didn't work for them. If he can't figure out why his training works for some and not others, he would have trouble keeping enough students to be able to afford to keep the dojo open.

Edward told Elliot and Ellen what the training did for them in terms of their awakenings, what would be preventing Edward from telling Greg, Greg has magic so Edward would need to make sure Greg was in the know about how he got it so that he understood the need for secrecy. It's possible that Greg even went to Edward to ask how his training only worked for 3 people with Edward saying "you should feel lucky it's only worked for those particular three, it would have made my job a lot worse."

That explains why it gave magic to Nanase and Elliot, but it doesn't explain why it didn't give magic to anyone else, which is the problem I'm getting at. From everything we've heard from Edward on the subject, the training should have worked for all of Greg's students, not just three. If Greg decided to reopen the ASMA dojo due to magic becoming more public, he's still going to have that problem

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1 minute ago, Drasvin said:

That explains why it gave magic to Nanase and Elliot, but it doesn't explain why it didn't give magic to anyone else, which is the problem I'm getting at. From everything we've heard from Edward on the subject, the training should have worked for all of Greg's students, not just three. If Greg decided to reopen the ASMA dojo due to magic becoming more public, he's still going to have that problem

The last panel of when Greg mentions his reasons he said "Anyone can get magic without us being able to predict what spells they get" that sounds a lot like what Edward would have said.

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4 minutes ago, Scotty said:
6 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

That explains why it gave magic to Nanase and Elliot, but it doesn't explain why it didn't give magic to anyone else, which is the problem I'm getting at. From everything we've heard from Edward on the subject, the training should have worked for all of Greg's students, not just three. If Greg decided to reopen the ASMA dojo due to magic becoming more public, he's still going to have that problem

The last panel of when Greg mentions his reasons he said "Anyone can get magic without us being able to predict what spells they get" that sounds a lot like what Edward would have said.

Yes. Edward has mentioned many times that anyone can get magic. There's nothing special about those who get magic, other than being lucky enough to trip over one of the many avenues of power. Edward described getting magic as building up muscles until you awaken (or get lucky with a shortcut). The accessibility of magic being so easy is one of, if not the biggest, concern for the DGB. So with everything that Edward has said about magic, why didn't Greg's training work for the majority of his students?

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14 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

why didn't Greg's training work for the majority of his students?

There could be any number of variables that would determine how quickly someone could build enough magic energy to be able to cast spells, Nanase comes from a long line of monster hunters who were very powerful so she of course would have been the quickest, Elliot's family history is unknown but it possible his nature as a protector from bullies helped, Justin was of course slower to learn but then he hadn't been training as seriously as Nanase and Elliot. As for why no one else showed any signs, it's likely they were like that Eric guy and didn't stick with it long enough.

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15 minutes ago, Scotty said:
36 minutes ago, Drasvin said:

why didn't Greg's training work for the majority of his students?

There could be any number of variables that would determine how quickly someone could build enough magic energy to be able to cast spells, Nanase comes from a long line of monster hunters who were very powerful so she of course would have been the quickest, Elliot's family history is unknown but it possible his nature as a protector from bullies helped, Justin was of course slower to learn but then he hadn't been training as seriously as Nanase and Elliot. As for why no one else showed any signs, it's likely they were like that Eric guy and didn't stick with it long enough.

It's possible all of the other students weren't patient enough to stick through it, but I don't think that's the case. There were four examples of people that the training worked for in the dojo and anyone that understands anime (or real martial arts for that matter) would know that training takes time(In some anime, the main character can fast track the training, but not everyone gets to be the main character). Eric probably wasn't the only impatient student, but it would be a stretch if all his students were unwilling to stick it out.

It could be due to numerous variables that affect how quickly someone builds up enough energy to be able to use magic (with ASMA you don't need to go all the way to awakening and spells to get results, as seen with Justin and Elliot, who both had magical abilities through ASMA before they were awakened. And maybe even Greg who might be awakened but could just be dreaming with an abnormally large number of magical abilities due to his fighting style), but if that's the case, it's still a series of unknowns that could make it difficult for Greg to retain students if he decides to try reopening his dojo.

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