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NP Wednesday April 18, 2018

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So now it's officially canon that Susan got more body-shy about stuff like bare midriffs after her growth spurt and all the comments it led to.  Curses on all those commenters!  (Only mild curses, mind you, let's not go overboard....maybe they only find parking spaces five spaces further out than they would have without the curse....or their cell phone batteries will run out a few minutes faster but only when it's not an emergency.....)

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Interesting that Dan felt the need to remind us that characters in non-canon stories have already agreed to transformations off screen. I wouldn't have thought much of it even if he hadn't mentioned that; I imagine that even in canon Catalina and Rhoda have given each-other permission to transform each other pretty much whenever they want, at least within reason (i.e., so long as it doesn't put them in danger or risk revealing their powers to people they don't want to know about them). At the very least, that's the impression I've gotten of the sort of relationship they have.

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1 hour ago, WR...S said:

...it hits me that Ashley is now (probably) capable of learning Rhoda's powers.

Question then. Do NP comics contain sufficient ambient magical energy for Ashley to cast Rhoda's spells?

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1 hour ago, WR...S said:

...it hits me that Ashley is now (probably) capable of learning Rhoda's powers.

A wizard could easily get into a gotta-catch-em-all mindset about their friends' and associates' spells, trying to learn as many as possible, even to the point of obsession.  Not that I see Ashley going that way, but given how Nanase was grinding levels for a while there, maybe it's just as well she isn't a wizard....

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3 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:
5 hours ago, WR...S said:

...it hits me that Ashley is now (probably) capable of learning Rhoda's powers.

Question then. Do NP comics contain sufficient ambient magical energy for Ashley to cast Rhoda's spells?

I don't think she'd do anything in Goonmanji 2, but it has occurred to me that this page certainly becomes more relevant.

5 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

Interesting that Dan felt the need to remind us that characters in non-canon stories have already agreed to transformations off screen. I wouldn't have thought much of it even if he hadn't mentioned that; I imagine that even in canon Catalina and Rhoda have given each-other permission to transform each other pretty much whenever they want, at least within reason (i.e., so long as it doesn't put them in danger or risk revealing their powers to people they don't want to know about them). At the very least, that's the impression I've gotten of the sort of relationship they have.

I think it's more of a running gag that he treats all his characters as actual people and therefore has to deal with whatever consequences there are to anything he does to them. It's silly, but it does give the characters extra depth.

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9 hours ago, partner555 said:

It's easy to forget about Susan baring her midriff early in the comic.

If you don't visit the forum where it's reminded periodically :)

8 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

So now it's officially canon that Susan got more body-shy about stuff like bare midriffs after her growth spurt and all the comments it led to.

As much canon as it can be after being mentioned in non-canon story line. That is, not much.

5 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

Interesting that Dan felt the need to remind us that characters in non-canon stories have already agreed to transformations off screen. I wouldn't have thought much of it even if he hadn't mentioned that; I imagine that even in canon Catalina and Rhoda have given each-other permission to transform each other pretty much whenever they want, at least within reason (i.e., so long as it doesn't put them in danger or risk revealing their powers to people they don't want to know about them). At the very least, that's the impression I've gotten of the sort of relationship they have.

While that's my headcanon as well, I'm not sure if it was already confirmed in canon, so the joke about the agreement is better.

21 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I think it's more of a running gag that he treats all his characters as actual people and therefore has to deal with whatever consequences there are to anything he does to them. It's silly, but it does give the characters extra depth.

Not only actual people, but like actors playing according to script or something. Because if they just were actual people, transforming Catalina would be Rhoda's problem, not Dan's. Of course, them going by script doesn't really make sense either because that would mean the characters are still created by Dan ... meaning it's better to just enjoy the running gag and not attempt to take it too seriously.

(Ok, some sort of reality show which is (supposedly) not scripted but people need to follow some hidden rules MIGHT work.)

3 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
5 hours ago, WR...S said:

...it hits me that Ashley is now (probably) capable of learning Rhoda's powers.

A wizard could easily get into a gotta-catch-em-all mindset about their friends' and associates' spells, trying to learn as many as possible, even to the point of obsession.  Not that I see Ashley going that way, but given how Nanase was grinding levels for a while there, maybe it's just as well she isn't a wizard....

I don't see any problem with that. Although that may be because I totally would go into that mindset ...

Also, while Ashley would technically be able to learn Rhoda's spells, it would be hard both to learn them and to cast them, as Rhoda is more experienced AND S-class talent. So, either will Ashley be limited on weaker versions of those spells, or she would only be able to learn them next year.

26 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I don't think she'd do anything in Goonmanji 2, but it has occurred to me that this page certainly becomes more relevant.

... thinking about it, Hanma totally was able to see Ashley is a wizard. And, depending on timeline, Ashley might knew as well ...

... actually, the main reason why this story would need to remain non-canon will likely be because it's set in summer (based on what are people wearing, for example here) but neither the summer before current main story nor the summer after current main story would match what the characters are shown to know.

 

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23 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

As much canon as it can be after being mentioned in non-canon story line. That is, not much.

It does make sense though since Susan herself hated the growth spurt and cursed her "lanky body".

 

27 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

... actually, the main reason why this story would need to remain non-canon will likely be because it's set in summer (based on what are people wearing, for example here) but neither the summer before current main story nor the summer after current main story would match what the characters are shown to know.

Yeah, taking place during the 6 month time skip doesn't make sense because Rhoda like wouldn't have awakened yet (though she was probably very close to it) and Catalina of course wouldn't have been marked at all. But the summer coming up doesn't make much sense either because Rhoda and Catalina were speculating that Susan and Diane might be related, we now know that they are. Though Susan was talking about Diane wearing less clothing like she had known for a while about Diane's tendencies so maybe Catalina and Rhoda might have been actively trying to keep from being spoilery about it?

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49 minutes ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

As much canon as it can be after being mentioned in non-canon story line. That is, not much.

It does make sense though since Susan herself hated the growth spurt and cursed her "lanky body".

It's probably true ; however, it was not confirmed in canon yet.

51 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Yeah, taking place during the 6 month time skip doesn't make sense because Rhoda like wouldn't have awakened yet (though she was probably very close to it) and Catalina of course wouldn't have been marked at all. But the summer coming up doesn't make much sense either because Rhoda and Catalina were speculating that Susan and Diane might be related, we now know that they are. Though Susan was talking about Diane wearing less clothing like she had known for a while about Diane's tendencies so maybe Catalina and Rhoda might have been actively trying to keep from being spoilery about it?

Just because we know doesn't mean Rhoda and Catalina knows, but I totally expect that they will get into more contact with main group in next months.

Like, most stuff makes sense if it would happen few weeks from now, enough time for Susan to get to know Diane more but not enough to tell everything to Catalina and Rhoda, but that's too early for being summer.

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4 hours ago, Scotty said:

I don't think she'd do anything in Goonmanji 2, but it has occurred to me that this page certainly becomes more relevant.

I think it's more of a running gag that he treats all his characters as actual people and therefore has to deal with whatever consequences there are to anything he does to them. It's silly, but it does give the characters extra depth.

I *can* tell fairly-involved stories about quite a few of my minor characters. Using NP, Dan *does*.

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41 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

I *can* tell fairly-involved stories about quite a few of my minor characters. Using NP, Dan *does*.

I was mainly referring to how apparent it is that Dan really gets into the character's head like in Susan's case, what she likes, dislikes, her habits and anxieties. Sure, Dan has stated that Susan shares a number of traits with him, so it helps there, but I think he does the same with all the characters.

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IMHO a good writer does. Spear-carrier #3 has a wife and kids, one of whom had an interesting (child-appropriate) adventure the night before, while Spear-Carrier #4 has his eye on a young lady and hopes of winning a poetry competition next week...

It makes the world feel realistic. In reality, very few people are JUST Spear-Carrier #3. Most people have their own stories. Maybe not very interesting stories, but stories nonetheless.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:
2 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

I *can* tell fairly-involved stories about quite a few of my minor characters. Using NP, Dan *does*.

I was mainly referring to how apparent it is that Dan really gets into the character's head like in Susan's case, what she likes, dislikes, her habits and anxieties. Sure, Dan has stated that Susan shares a number of traits with him, so it helps there, but I think he does the same with all the characters.

I'm pretty sure he shares a number of traits with Tedd and Elliot as well. Probably not Grace or Adrian, though.

31 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

IMHO a good writer does. Spear-carrier #3 has a wife and kids, one of whom had an interesting (child-appropriate) adventure the night before, while Spear-Carrier #4 has his eye on a young lady and hopes of winning a poetry competition next week...

It makes the world feel realistic. In reality, very few people are JUST Spear-Carrier #3. Most people have their own stories. Maybe not very interesting stories, but stories nonetheless.

Names might also help, but finding good names for all background characters is too much work for most authors. Dan specially was struggling with several MAIN character names ...

(Spear-carrier #2 has one kid and his adventure wasn't appropriate for children OR most TV stations but noone involved is likely to complain. Pity Spear-carrier #2 wouldn't live long enough to find out he became grandpa ...)

There is big danger here, though: if the author is too good with world-building, people then complain that he never finished the stories of half of the interesting characters. AFTER spending whole life writing books. "It was supposed to be trilogy!" ... :)

 

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The characters are essentially their own persons within the mind of the author.

If the author makes the character do something that the character does not want to do, then the character resists and the creativity stops.

If the author lets the character run free, the character eventually goes beyond what the author can imagine and is lost to the story.

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18 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

The characters are essentially their own persons within the mind of the author.

If the author makes the character do something that the character does not want to do, then the character resists and the creativity stops.

Speaking as a sometime writer, there's nothing more annoying than losing an argument with your own character.

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2 hours ago, Vorlonagent said:

Speaking as a sometime writer, there's nothing more annoying than losing an argument with your own character.

The overwhelming majority of writers who've commented on this in my presence at sci-fi conventions agree that somewhere in excess of 80% of the time, the writer loses the argument. A few said they've lost every time. I've only encountered one who denied ever losing such an argument - and he denied ever *having* such an argument.

I've only had one argument with one of my characters. She pointed out that it didn't make sense for her to be physically capable of what I was asking of her. She was absolutely right. The solution is a drug... with side effects and after-effects. Which leads to a possible sequel. All in all, I'm happy to have lost that argument. That is, aside from the fact that she began by whacking me across the back of the head... with claws... and she's a 30-pound felinoid tree-dweller...

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4 minutes ago, Don Edwards said:

The overwhelming majority of writers who've commented on this in my presence at sci-fi conventions agree that somewhere in excess of 80% of the time, the writer loses the argument. A few said they've lost every time. I've only encountered one who denied ever losing such an argument - and he denied ever *having* such an argument.

I've only had one argument with one of my characters. She pointed out that it didn't make sense for her to be physically capable of what I was asking of her. She was absolutely right. The solution is a drug... with side effects and after-effects. Which leads to a possible sequel. All in all, I'm happy to have lost that argument. That is, aside from the fact that she began by whacking me across the back of the head... with claws... and she's a 30-pound felinoid tree-dweller...

That tracks.  I don't think I've ever outright won an argument with a character.  But I think there's one time when I didn't completely lose either..

Sometimes online characters argue or ask for stuff.  In City of Heroes I once carefully navigated a level 4 character through a level 21+ zone to get a costume change she absolutely wanted..  I've had another demand a boob reduction.  Twice.  A different character absolutely refused to wear any costume I made for her but the first one.  The last time a character asked me for something was about a year ago on Guild Wars 2.  An Asura I was playing wanted to level up the cooking skill.  She didn't need it.  I had other characters with cooking maxed out, but she wanted it, dammit, and bugged me about it until I gave it to her.  The irony is she doesn't do anything with it now.  :) 

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38 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

but she wanted it, dammit, and bugged me about it until I gave it to her.  The irony is she doesn't do anything with it now.

I think I'm married to her.

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46 minutes ago, Vorlonagent said:

In City of Heroes I once carefully navigated a level 4 character through a level 21+ zone to get a costume change she absolutely wanted.

I miss City of Heroes. Darnit.

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15 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

The overwhelming majority of writers who've commented on this in my presence at sci-fi conventions agree that somewhere in excess of 80% of the time, the writer loses the argument. A few said they've lost every time. I've only encountered one who denied ever losing such an argument - and he denied ever *having* such an argument.

I can't recall having any arguments with my characters, but that's partially because I generally just let them do whatever they want, and partially because when I do have a particular outcome in mind I'm not afraid to go back in time and play around with the course of history (i.e., rewrite/revise) until I find one with the results I want. (Although changing history does have it's risks; it's amazing how easy it is to create plot holes that way...)

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