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exterminator

Wednesday, October 26 2016

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"Just don't make that comparison around Susan. She's seen every episode with a holodeck in it, and she'll naturally assume something will inevitably go horribly wrong and threaten The Enterprise and/or its crew in some way. "

 

Without the simulation coming to life or anything like that, hasn't Box already warned Sarah about it being dangerous? Susan wouldn't exactly be wrong :P

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Wasn't the warnings mostly about not trusting information gleaned from the simulation if she started to change things too much? Oh, and to keep it secret from the DGB or she might be drafted into working for them... I don't remember anything about the actual use of her power being dangerous though.
 

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6 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

And therein lies the difference between being told you can change things at will or whim, and knowing you can do whatever you want in the simulation!

This is where the lucid dream similarity comes in. As stated in this page, Sarah knows that Tedd can turn into a girl, so then she can simulate that process.

As for Tedd's magic analysis deal, probably the reason why she didn't see herself glowing is because the spell itself isn't that simple that she could accurately see what Tedd sees. My analogy that Tedd sees magic like Neo sees the Matrix is probably nowhere near what it actually looks like, the only thing we've seen pertaining to it, was the bright flash when Tedd used it as he willed himself back to dudeness.

 

12 minutes ago, Apocriopath said:

"Just don't make that comparison around Susan. She's seen every episode with a holodeck in it, and she'll naturally assume something will inevitably go horribly wrong and threaten The Enterprise and/or its crew in some way. "

 

Without the simulation coming to life or anything like that, hasn't Box already warned Sarah about it being dangerous? Susan wouldn't exactly be wrong :P

2 minutes ago, Cpt. Obvious said:

Wasn't the warnings mostly about not trusting information gleaned from the simulation if she started to change things too much? Oh, and to keep it secret from the DGB or she might be drafted into working for them... I don't remember anything about the actual use of her power being dangerous though.
 

Pandora's mention of danger was referring to the fact that people would kill to have Sarah use the spell for them, plus she implied that Edward finding out would put him in a position to have to put Sarah and her spell on file with DGB and possibly have them forcibly recruit her, which working for DGB would have it's own dangers.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Cpt. Obvious said:

Wasn't the warnings mostly about not trusting information gleaned from the simulation if she started to change things too much? Oh, and to keep it secret from the DGB or she might be drafted into working for them... I don't remember anything about the actual use of her power being dangerous though.

There was two warnings: That the information gleaned might be inaccurate if she changes stuff too much, and that it might be dangerously accurate if she doesn't. But, yes, no danger inside the simulation itself, except possibly being there too long (isn't it more than minute already?).

16 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Pandora's mention of danger was referring to the fact that people would kill to have Sarah use the spell for them

Or NOT use it ON them (resp. their secrets).

16 minutes ago, Scotty said:
42 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

And therein lies the difference between being told you can change things at will or whim, and knowing you can do whatever you want in the simulation!

This is where the lucid dream similarity comes in. As stated in this page, Sarah knows that Tedd can turn into a girl, so then she can simulate that process.

Yup. She also knows he can see magic, but has no idea how that looks. Also, this girl is very different from the girl Tedd changed into (which Sarah didn't actually saw ...) which can also count as inaccurate.

16 minutes ago, Scotty said:

As for Tedd's magic analysis deal, probably the reason why she didn't see herself glowing is because the spell itself isn't that simple that she could accurately see what Tedd sees.

I wouldn't call that "simple". Seeing what would YOU see from given point is easier than decoding what someone else see, especially if it involves something which may or may not use physical eyes to get into brain.

16 minutes ago, Scotty said:

My analogy that Tedd sees magic like Neo sees the Matrix is probably nowhere near what it actually looks like

Tedd definitely doesn't see Matrix font symbols.

16 minutes ago, Scotty said:

the only thing we've seen pertaining to it, was the bright flash when Tedd used it as he willed himself back to dudeness.

We saw Tedd glowing on several previous cases, which might ALSO be him using this ability. But I don't think it's related to what HE see.

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2 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

We saw Tedd glowing on several previous cases, which might ALSO be him using this ability. But I don't think it's related to what HE see.

The other cases of glowing....well 2 cases, were related to Grace which seems to reflect Tedd's love for her, a third case was was more of a flash related to the Eureka! moment he had when determining Elliot's magic was overcompensating with the girly spells.

For all we know though, the glowing and flashes are probably just involuntary reflexes when Tedd is excited or has an emotional epiphany. I'm actually surprised Grace hasn't pursued why Tedd does it beyond asking about it at her birthday. I'm guessing now that Tedd has used his insight on his insight, he probably knows about the glowing now, but there hasn't really been enough time for him to explain.

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So riddle me this Batman, why is this spell so energy-intensive?  If all this is just basically a lucid dream, shouldn't that be relatively low power?  

I mean it's awesome and all...if I had Sarah's ability I would probably spend most of my time using it....but if this is all just in her head it doesn't seem like it should use a lot of energy.

Maybe it actually creates a little pocket dimension that she's experiencing through some sort of astral travel?  That would eat up a ton of energy I suppose.

Oh and one other thing - until I read the commentary I thought the "holy crap" was her realizing what a weird expression she left on Grace's face. :)

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6 minutes ago, mlooney said:

I'm some what impressed.  Girly!Tedd!Sarah is recognizably both Tedd and Sarah.

You actually caused me to do a double take there. At first I was looking to see what aspects of Sarah was in the form other than possibly her reaction, then suddenly I got wondering if Dan just reused the Triple Girly Tedd pinup design here, the hairstyle and clothes aren't the same, but it's close.

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9 minutes ago, Circe said:

So riddle me this Batman, why is this spell so energy-intensive?  If all this is just basically a lucid dream, shouldn't that be relatively low power?

I mean it's awesome and all...if I had Sarah's ability I would probably spend most of my time using it....but if this is all just in her head it doesn't seem like it should use a lot of energy.

Maybe it actually creates a little pocket dimension that she's experiencing through some sort of astral travel?  That would eat up a ton of energy I suppose.

Oh and one other thing - until I read the commentary I thought the "holy crap" was her realizing what a weird expression she left on Grace's face. :)

A pocket dimension could explain the power use, but there's also the time dilation to consider. Accelerating Sara's thought processes to allow for this might take a chunk of power. I just hope she doesn't start to overheat thanks to this overclock... 
 

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14 minutes ago, Circe said:

So riddle me this Batman, why is this spell so energy-intensive?  If all this is just basically a lucid dream, shouldn't that be relatively low power?  

I mean it's awesome and all...if I had Sarah's ability I would probably spend most of my time using it....but if this is all just in her head it doesn't seem like it should use a lot of energy.

Maybe it actually creates a little pocket dimension that she's experiencing through some sort of astral travel?  That would eat up a ton of energy I suppose.

Oh and one other thing - until I read the commentary I thought the "holy crap" was her realizing what a weird expression she left on Grace's face. :)

Dan went on twitter about the lucid dream stuff. It isn't a lucid dream, I wasn't trying to say it was in here, just saying that there are things about what Sarah's spell does that can equate to a lucid dream like experience.

A lucid dream is when you realize you're dreaming and can manipulate aspects of the dream to your likely, Elliot's been shown to do this fairly well.

Sarah's spell, if she didn't know she could manipulate anything, it'd just look like a frozen moment in time, she could look at stuff and see them how they are. Now that it's fully sunk in how much she can change and manipulate, it's pretty much full lucid mode whenever she wants.

Just now, Cpt. Obvious said:

A pocket dimension could explain the power use, but there's also the time dilation to consider. Accelerating Sara's thought processes to allow for this might take a chunk of power. I just hope she doesn't start to overheat thanks to this overclock... 
 

I'm guessing at least that, it might also depend on the size of the area that the spell creates a snapshot of, even Amanda and Lisa suggested a limit, but didn't say how far the limit was, hinting that we'll find out when/if Sarah finds it.

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21 minutes ago, Scotty said:

You actually caused me to do a double take there. At first I was looking to see what aspects of Sarah was in the form other than possibly her reaction, then suddenly I got wondering if Dan just reused the Triple Girly Tedd pinup design here, the hairstyle and clothes aren't the same, but it's close.

Her eyes are Sarah's not Tedd's at least to me.

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51 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

We saw Tedd glowing on several previous cases, which might ALSO be him using this ability. But I don't think it's related to what HE see.

The other cases of glowing....well 2 cases, were related to Grace which seems to reflect Tedd's love for her, a third case was was more of a flash related to the Eureka! moment he had when determining Elliot's magic was overcompensating with the girly spells.

For all we know though, the glowing and flashes are probably just involuntary reflexes when Tedd is excited or has an emotional epiphany. I'm actually surprised Grace hasn't pursued why Tedd does it beyond asking about it at her birthday. I'm guessing now that Tedd has used his insight on his insight, he probably knows about the glowing now, but there hasn't really been enough time for him to explain.

The love to Grace was red herring. All cases of glowing was when Tedd realized something. Notice that the cases are referenced in commentary below Tedd's using insight on insight.

49 minutes ago, Circe said:

So riddle me this Batman, why is this spell so energy-intensive?

Already talking about it on thread from few days back. It's because for creating the snapshot, the spell needs to scan the surrounding on very high, possibly subatomic resolution.

It was even mentioned in canon (or was it Dan's twitter around the time of NP?) that it's the scan taking the energy, not moving inside the simulation.

42 minutes ago, Scotty said:
53 minutes ago, mlooney said:

I'm some what impressed.  Girly!Tedd!Sarah is recognizably both Tedd and Sarah.

You actually caused me to do a double take there. At first I was looking to see what aspects of Sarah was in the form other than possibly her reaction, then suddenly I got wondering if Dan just reused the Triple Girly Tedd pinup design here, the hairstyle and clothes aren't the same, but it's close.

Personally I think it's more mix of Tedd and Ellen. The hair from back especially reminds me of Ellen ...

23 minutes ago, mlooney said:

Her eyes are Sarah's not Tedd's at least to me.

Hmmmm .... on panel 5 maybe ...

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3 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

The love to Grace was red herring. All cases of glowing was when Tedd realized something. Notice that the cases are referenced in commentary below Tedd's using insight on insight.

That's why I added that it could just be a reflex for anything Tedd has a strong emotional reaction to. Like for a split second (or a couple seconds) Tedd's emotions cause him to radiate energy, each case shown the glow is either a soft, few seconds long glow, or an intense flash. The flash for the insight on the insight, could be from Tedd's realization that he had a magical insight that was helping him learn about people's spells and such. Also Tedd has on a couple occasions ended up with a rush of energy, one was shortly after a flash, and one without any glow or flash, but it might also be related.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

The love to Grace was red herring. All cases of glowing was when Tedd realized something. Notice that the cases are referenced in commentary below Tedd's using insight on insight.

That's why I added that it could just be a reflex for anything Tedd has a strong emotional reaction to. Like for a split second (or a couple seconds) Tedd's emotions cause him to radiate energy, each case shown the glow is either a soft, few seconds long glow, or an intense flash. The flash for the insight on the insight, could be from Tedd's realization that he had a magical insight that was helping him learn about people's spells and such. Also Tedd has on a couple occasions ended up with a rush of energy, one was shortly after a flash, and one without any glow or flash, but it might also be related.

Should I try to find synonyms until the relation between "realized something" and "insight" get more apparent? I think that glow is a sideefect of his ability to analyze stuff, which appears (or perhaps only "is bright enough to be visible") when he gets better-than-usually results with it or maybe when it works faster. He was instinctively using his ability in those previous cases as well.

Note: just explaining my hypothesis. Of course it's also possible that it's unrelated, emotion-based dangerous rarity ability.

41 minutes ago, partner555 said:

The potential for perversion is high with this spell. I never appreciated that before now.

"High" might be understatement. "Huge", "Gigantic" or "Enormous" would match better.

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1 minute ago, hkmaly said:

Should I try to find synonyms until the relation between "realized something" and "insight" get more apparent? I think that glow is a sideefect of his ability to analyze stuff, which appears (or perhaps only "is bright enough to be visible") when he gets better-than-usually results with it or maybe when it works faster. He was instinctively using his ability in those previous cases as well.

Tedd wasn't analyzing spells in the other cases though, in the eureka instance, he just made a compelling theory. In the other two cases, well...the first was Tedd obviously emotionally charged after Grace telling him that the reason for the theme of her party was for him, and the second was maybe not as charged, but thinking about Grace still choosing him over other guys at MSHS had an effect on his confidence. Also, it should be noted that aside from the card tournament case, Tedd never glowed during other times when we've seen him analyze spells.

There is a difference between Tedd looking at a spell and seeing how it works, which is when I refer to his insight which is how he referred to it as, and a realization about something profound like finding out that being gender fluid is a real thing. In the case of when Tedd used his insight on his insight, there was definite overlap of insight and realization of something profound. Tedd's Magic insight is not.....hmmm maybe it is kind of the same as Justin's insight. I mean, they're both based on perception of what's happening, Tedd mainly probably sees auras and whatever and links them into an understanding of spell mechanics, Justin sees body language, personality and events and links them into how a person feels or thinks. Mind you, in Justin's case it's like a large puzzle where you can usually figure out what the image is even if it's not complete, but Tedd sees the whole picture and just needs to figure out what it means which in some cases can be easier than others. To butcher a quote from Ellen, it's like if you were shown a picture of a platypus when you had never seen a platypus before, you wouldn't know what it was until someone told you, that was basically Tedd's reaction when he saw Sarah's spell, if she didn't tell him what it was, he wouldn't have known immediately.

Hmm, there is one other case though worth mentioning. When Tedd used the gauntlet to see the whale. the light would imply a surge of energy which makes sense given what the gauntlet is doing at that moment, but Tedd's eyes...could that be Tedd's insight into magic being put on overdrive by the energy surge?

In any case, the glow isn't consistent enough to be related to Tedd's magic insight, of course, the insight might not be all that Tedd's "dangerous rarity" is about so the glow can be related to something else, heck, maybe the glow is related to the flash that Luke saw when he tried looking at Tedd's (well he originally tried looking at George but Tedd was in frame) aura, it might just be Tedd's aura becoming visible under special circumstances.

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45 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

"High" might be understatement. "Huge", "Gigantic" or "Enormous" would match better.

Even that is putting it mildly. Remember the bit about making the illusionary people act with an illusion of autonomy? Sarah could use this to experience any sexual fantasy she can imagine, whether or not it's realistically possible, with no consequences. Well, maybe not ones that involve losing control of herself, but even for that she could pretend.

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40 minutes ago, Douglas said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

"High" might be understatement. "Huge", "Gigantic" or "Enormous" would match better.

Even that is putting it mildly. Remember the bit about making the illusionary people act with an illusion of autonomy? Sarah could use this to experience any sexual fantasy she can imagine, whether or not it's realistically possible, with no consequences. Well, maybe not ones that involve losing control of herself, but even for that she could pretend.

And she has quite good imagination ...

40 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Tedd wasn't analyzing spells in the other cases though, in the eureka instance, he just made a compelling theory. In the other two cases, well...the first was Tedd obviously emotionally charged after Grace telling him that the reason for the theme of her party was for him, and the second was maybe not as charged, but thinking about Grace still choosing him over other guys at MSHS had an effect on his confidence.

It would be hard to argue for those other two cases, but in the eureka instance, he DEFINITELY analyzed spell. It's just that before he used his insight on his insight, he didn't had control over that. Note the "more sure than I should be" line.

40 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Tedd mainly probably sees auras and whatever and links them into an understanding of spell mechanics

40 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Tedd sees the whole picture and just needs to figure out what it means which in some cases can be easier than others

There was big change between how he analyzed spells before using his insight on his insight - which was matching what you are saying - and AFTER that (see analyzing Susan's fairy spell for example, or, well, the insight itself). Now when he knows what he's doing he can do it better, possibly even overcoming Sherlock Holmes style of deduction - he can understand the spell better than if he would read the (confusing) spellbook about it.

 

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37 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

It would be hard to argue for those other two cases, but in the eureka instance, he DEFINITELY analyzed spell. It's just that before he used his insight on his insight, he didn't had control over that. Note the "more sure than I should be" line.

That instance, yeah he would have been analyzing the enchantment Elliot was under, but he would have been told the same thing Edward had found but without the zap, and I fail to see how analyzing one spell effect lead to an overall theory about why Elliot was getting girly spells. If anything, the insight involved in determining why Elliot kept getting girly spells is the same as Justin's insight, Tedd was adding up all the evidence surrounding Elliot's situation, the fact that Elliot was in a female form when he touched the diamond, the types of spells, maybe something about Elliot's personality factored in. I doubt the spells themselves were like "I have no idea why Elliot has us, but we were told he should."

 

37 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

There was big change between how he analyzed spells before using his insight on his insight - which was matching what you are saying - and AFTER that (see analyzing Susan's fairy spell for example, or, well, the insight itself). Now when he knows what he's doing he can do it better.

I think that's more a case of recognizing similar elements between spells, also seeing visual results helps greatly as well. Tedd watching a morph occur is more simple to figure out basic mechanics of the morph. There's likely more to it though, like spells that have various mechanics tied together like Susan's fairy vs Nanase's fairy doll, Tedd's seen Nanase's fairy doll in action prior to seeing Susan summon Nase so he might have recognized Nanase's fairy doll's first person feature in Susan's spell, when he said there were a lot of moving parts to Susan's spell, it probably meant there were aspects of the spell he had never seen before so he wasn't sure what they did yet, also some of those unknown parts might affect the known parts to do something that Tedd wouldn't expect. Dan's commentary for the page fits nicely with this.

" I've probably made the analogy before, but Tedd is able to see a sort of blueprint for how a spell works. Some can be looked at and make sense at a glance. Others require a closer look, or might just be baffling altogether. "

I think if Tedd had seen Cranium's spell in action at some point, even if they aren't the exact same spell, they might share some similar elements that would have helped Tedd piece together what Sarah's spell is doing, as it is, he might need Sarah to use the spell several more times to let him get a good look at everything, fortunately she does have to use the spell a lot so...maybe Sarah should share Grace's room for the week? ;)

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11 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Also, this girl is very different from the girl Tedd changed into (which Sarah didn't actually saw ...) which can also count as inaccurate.

 

10 hours ago, mlooney said:

I'm some what impressed.  Girly!Tedd!Sarah is recognizably both Tedd and Sarah.

I think it may be based on how Sarah imagines a girly form for Tedd.

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