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Scotty

Story, Wednesday May 30, 2018

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50 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Speculation: What if Arthur made it so the training wand was supposed to attune itself to the fledgling wizard it was supposed to train, which would allow it to track progress and adjust to the wizard's ability so that they would be able to get the most efficient training. If Kevin had attuned himself to Ashley (because Ashley would have been the first human he encountered) then it would make sense that Arthur would feel it necessary that Ashley continue to have Kevin.

That makes a lot of sense, however I think the real reason is rule of funny.

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13 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

And once again Ashley proves to be as good as Pandora thought she was back in Marker: She's concerned if Kevin is all right. She thinks of Kevin as a person.

So does Arthur, which I find much more surprising / interesting!

11 hours ago, ijuin said:

If Kevin's personality is anything like what Arthur intended for it to be, then Arthur would thus get most of the advantage he would have gotten from training Ashley himself without having to take the time off from work to do so.

Hmm, and Arthur has already said he'd like to go back into retirement as soon as he can.  Perhaps once he has the free time, he'd find it interesting to help a novice wizard train herself up....

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16 hours ago, Scotty said:

That's interesting if Arthur intended on Ashley having Kevin after Arthur found out Kevin works, though I guess the question is, was it Arthur's decision alone, or did Kevin request/insist on training her?

Arthur (thinking): So the wand is talking now ... we still need to test if it's really working on someone who's not important ...

Ashley: "Is Kevin okay?"

Arthur (thinking): Perfect.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Speculation: What if Arthur made it so the training wand was supposed to attune itself to the fledgling wizard it was supposed to train, which would allow it to track progress and adjust to the wizard's ability so that they would be able to get the most efficient training. If Kevin had attuned himself to Ashley (because Ashley would have been the first human he encountered) then it would make sense that Arthur would feel it necessary that Ashley continue to have Kevin.

Or that ...

14 hours ago, Tom Sewell said:

And once again Ashley proves to be as good as Pandora thought she was back in Marker: She's concerned if Kevin is all right. She thinks of Kevin as a person.

... she probably thanks to vending machine.

1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

So does Arthur, which I find much more surprising / interesting!

It's HIS project. He probably wouldn't consider talking wand person otherwise, but he's emotionally compromised by this one.

9 hours ago, Drasvin said:

There also appears to be a mirror behind Arthur in panel 4. Seems they're in an interrogation room instead of some random office or conference room. Which is an obvious place to have a discussion like this, but didn't occur to me earlier.

Question is who is behind that mirror.

6 hours ago, Drasvin said:

Based on this page, it appears that Kevin was completely non-functional before the Diamond was shattered. "I should even be able to talk to you."

So likely he absorbed some energy from the Diamond, which fixed whatever was preventing him from functioning, assuming that his lack of function wasn't from a feature of magic being suppressed to lock away a previous system of magic and the Diamond just powered him up after the soft 'reset' released all the locks.

His function being from a feature of magic being suppressed in magic reset is exactly what I'm assuming.

6 hours ago, Drasvin said:

As for creating a magical AI, I imagine magic does most of the work. Designing AI is hard, not just from a hardware stand point, but because the software is difficult and complex to put together. Modern AI development is largely centered around machine learning procedures, which can make a program that is really good at the thing it is being designed for, but the code is too tangled and complex to be understood by even the people who ostensibly designed it. Similar to a brain:  the functions individual nodes/neurons are understood, and clusters are vaguely grasped, but the whole is beyond.

We are not intelligent enough to create intelligence as one block. What we are currently trying to do is to create multiple simpler blocks and hope they will become intelligent when put together. And by "multiple", I mean billions. We would STILL not be able to understand how the whole thing works, obviously, but if we do the testing on smaller blocks and smaller complexes well, it may work.

I imagine magic cheats and is borrowing the building blocks of human intelligence :)

Note that the fairies (Susan's or Dex's) are using human subconscious to get the "intelligence". Meanwhile, bloodgrem is summoned creature. It's possible Kevin's sapience is created by process starting with copying Arthur's or someone else's.

1 hour ago, CritterKeeper said:

Hmm, and Arthur has already said he'd like to go back into retirement as soon as he can.  Perhaps once he has the free time, he'd find it interesting to help a novice wizard train herself up....

I'm pretty sure that's not how he plans to spend his retirement. Also, I suspect that his sense of responsibility won't allow him to retire anytime soon.

Of course, he MAY be interested in how well is Kevin teaching Ashley ... unless he leaves the debugging on Tedd.

 

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6 hours ago, Douglas said:

He couldn't talk before, and outright "didn't work". He was stuffed in a crate because he was just a slightly fancy stick with a magical aura that did nothing functional. He might have been able to see, hear, and think - he knew his purpose and creator somehow - but there were no external indications of it.

 

6 hours ago, Drasvin said:

Based on this page, it appears that Kevin was completely non-functional before the Diamond was shattered. "I should even be able to talk to you."

So likely he absorbed some energy from the Diamond, which fixed whatever was preventing him from functioning, assuming that his lack of function wasn't from a feature of magic being suppressed to lock away a previous system of magic and the Diamond just powered him up after the soft 'reset' released all the locks.

I forgot about that. I can't see Dan writing a story where a sentient being was aware but unable to interact with the world, so in my mind that pretty much rules out Kevin being sapient before today. (As for how Kevin knew about his history, it is possible that Kevin originally had some form of awareness without self-awareness or true thought, similar to some very advanced computers and some simple instinct-driven invertebrates.)

I also doubt Arthur would have included in Kevin's design features which relied upon defunct magic systems if he was knowledgeable enough about magic to be concerned with training agents.

So at this point it seems to me the Dewitchery magic providing the needed spark is not only the most likely possibility, but the only possibility I've thought of or heard which seems likely at all.

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1 minute ago, ChronosCat said:

I can't see Dan writing a story where a sentient being was aware but unable to interact with the world, so in my mind that pretty much rules out Kevin being sapient before today. (As for how Kevin knew about his history, it is possible that Kevin originally had some form of awareness without self-awareness or true thought, similar to some very advanced computers and some simple instinct-driven invertebrates.)

You are anthropomorphizing. Kevin might be sapient and sentient and not really care he can't interact.

However, personally I would assume that without power, he was in state similar to sleep. AND that he only gained sentience after magic "not-a-reset". So, he gained sentience in sleep, then was waken up by being powered up by the diamond.

3 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

I also doubt Arthur would have included in Kevin's design features which relied upon defunct magic systems if he was knowledgeable enough about magic to be concerned with training agents.

It was experiment AND he was less knowledgeable than he's now. And most likely, there was literally noone in whole DGB who would know if that could work because Arthur was only seer there.

 

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Arthur (thinking): So the wand is talking now ... we still need to test if it's really working on someone who's not important ...

Ashley: "Is Kevin okay?"

Arthur (thinking): Perfect.

Arthur seems kind of embarrassed about Kevin, probably to do with Kevin's personality being such that Arthur wouldn't approve of if it was just anyone, but made worse because Arthur created Kevin, though it would also go back to Kevin's personality being a reminder of what Arthur used to be like in his youth.

If Ashley's power was so low that despite being considered a wizard, she'd have to do a lot of training in order to awaken, then the chances of her out of the blue using magic should also be very low (barring any immortal intervention of course), I would imagine that if Pandora had marked Ashley, she'd have awakened much faster. So probably the need to train her would not be necessary under normal circumstances. Arthur either is giving Ashley the opportunity because Kevin insisted, or Arthur has pretty much given up on keeping magic secret and would at least want to try to guide potential wizards towards being responsible ones.

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2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

You are anthropomorphizing. Kevin might be sapient and sentient and not really care he can't interact.

Well, more like I assumed Dan would anthropomorphize and forgot to mention my assumption. It's extremely rare in fiction (even speculative fiction) to see beings which are as intelligent/sentient/etc. as humans but think differently in a way that is deeper than culture (unless you count attempts at the POVs of other Earth animals, but most animals are not as intelligent as humans and are usually portrayed accordingly when not being anthropomorphized) so I never really expect to see it.

But yes, that is a possibility.

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4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Question is who is behind that mirror.

Cranium, Wolf, Edward, Mr and/or Mrs Dunkle, Ashley's parent(s), Lavender, Dr Sciuridae, Mrs Kitsune, "Top Men", Allen Funt...

Should we take bets?

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2 hours ago, ChronosCat said:
4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

You are anthropomorphizing. Kevin might be sapient and sentient and not really care he can't interact.

Well, more like I assumed Dan would anthropomorphize and forgot to mention my assumption. It's extremely rare in fiction (even speculative fiction) to see beings which are as intelligent/sentient/etc. as humans but think differently in a way that is deeper than culture (unless you count attempts at the POVs of other Earth animals, but most animals are not as intelligent as humans and are usually portrayed accordingly when not being anthropomorphized) so I never really expect to see it.

It's certainly rare, and even rarer to be done right, but ... there are cases in webcomics. And, frankly, Dan already did pretty good job with Will of Magic.

On the other hand, it doesn't seem Kevin would be AS important to be given this sort of specific treatment ...

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

If Ashley's power was so low that despite being considered a wizard, she'd have to do a lot of training in order to awaken, then the chances of her out of the blue using magic should also be very low (barring any immortal intervention of course), I would imagine that if Pandora had marked Ashley, she'd have awakened much faster.

Not really. She would be able to awaken much faster if Pandora gave her transformation spell, but she probably would need lot of training with the spells Pandora was able to give to her.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Arthur seems kind of embarrassed about Kevin, probably to do with Kevin's personality being such that Arthur wouldn't approve of if it was just anyone, but made worse because Arthur created Kevin, though it would also go back to Kevin's personality being a reminder of what Arthur used to be like in his youth.

Note that Arthur will be considerably more embarrassed if Kevin would be interacting with actual agent. It's at least little better if it's teenagers.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

So probably the need to train her would not be necessary under normal circumstances. Arthur either is giving Ashley the opportunity because Kevin insisted, or Arthur has pretty much given up on keeping magic secret and would at least want to try to guide potential wizards towards being responsible ones.

First, Arthur given up on keeping magic secret in his first appearance in comic.

Second, he don't really have option to keep Ashley untrained. She's friend of main eight and already knows about magic. If he doesn't do anything, it's quite clear Elliot will help her.

But yes, he doesn't seem the type to help her awaken without reason. Which is not problem: I already provided one. Embarrassed or not, knowing if Kevin is actually working and can have results is important, ESPECIALLY now; they may need to create more wands like him. And testing Kevin on Ashley might be less embarrassing to Arthur that testing him on someone else, especially given she already interacted with him.

On the other hand, Kevin probably did directly assumed he's supposed to continue training Ashley. Even if he can be reset, Arthur might not like doing that.

Just now, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:
4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Question is who is behind that mirror.

Cranium, Wolf, Edward, Mr and/or Mrs Dunkle, Ashley's parent(s), Lavender, Dr Sciuridae, Mrs Kitsune, "Top Men", Allen Funt...

Should we take bets?

No reasons for Dunkles or Ashley's parent to be there. Dr. Sciuridae, even less so. Mrs. Kitsune is more likely to be near Nanase if she gets involved.

If Cranium and Wolf are not still busy cleaning up the PTTAOLUTASF, they are likely to be there.

Edward might be there if he already returned from his business, but I don't think he did.

Lavender would only be there with Edward.

Now ... could Assistant Director Leifeld be there?

 

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8 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

First, Arthur given up on keeping magic secret in his first appearance in comic.

I meant given up on keeping how people can learn magic, secret.

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On 5/30/2018 at 5:51 PM, hkmaly said:

... she probably [says] thanks to vending machine.

Is that an Ensign Sonya Gomez reference?  I always loved her in "Q Who?"!  "Working with so much  technology could be dehumanizing, so why not combat that tendency with a little simple courtesy?

(Actually, the line that stuck with me, as an aspiring veterinary student, was the bit about her being awfully young to be so driven...."I had to be!  I had to be the best, because only the best get to be here!"  Along with Geordi's reassurance that she's made it, and now she can afford to relax a little.  ;-)

Quote

Question is who is behind that mirror.

 

On 5/30/2018 at 10:31 PM, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Cranium, Wolf, Edward, Mr and/or Mrs Dunkle, Ashley's parent(s), Lavender, Dr Sciuridae, Mrs Kitsune, "Top Men", Allen Funt...

Bless you for the Allen Funt reference!

How about the Tomato?  The Queen from Snow White?  Al and Ziggy?  Michael Jackson? (apologies for the earworm....)

 

On another note, since using wands can increase a person's inherent magic, perhaps Tedd can make Ashley wands and/or watches that don't violate her ethics that she can use as frequently as possible.  That would allow her to increase her magic until she's strong enough to cast actual spells.

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7 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

Bless you for the Allen Funt reference!

Staging an elaborate stunt and then subjecting the witnesses to an awkward interrogation seems like a classic Candid Camera bit.

Although I could be wrong.  Yes, I watched a lot of episodes.  Back in the 70s, kids had to shut up and watch what their parents watched.  But I really didn't care for show or the concept.

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31 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

Is that an Ensign Sonya Gomez reference?  I always loved her in "Q Who?"!  "Working with so much  technology could be dehumanizing, so why not combat that tendency with a little simple courtesy?

... not deliberately, but I wouldn't be surprised if it would be my subconscious at work.

34 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

On another note, since using wands can increase a person's inherent magic, perhaps Tedd can make Ashley wands and/or watches that don't violate her ethics that she can use as frequently as possible.  That would allow her to increase her magic until she's strong enough to cast actual spells.

First, I suspect that Kevin might be more effective.

Second, I don't think transforming herself violates her ethics, or transforming Elliot who presumably would consent. So even "normal" transformation spells would be usable. I think the issue with her goodness blocking her yarning for transformation is that when she thinks about transformations, she primarily thinks about transforming others against their wills, which is obviously against her ethics. It's actually another case of thinking too much: if she focused more about how she would like to transform someone and less on how hard would be to find willing target, she probably would be markable AND would find at least someone to transform.

Third, yes, of course Tedd can test wands with spells which are totally discreet and raise magic as much as possible. It's something he would NEED to test, anyway.

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I just see Kevin as an equivalent to a self-driving car.

Magic-powered cars, however, could be a different thing.

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