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The Old Hack

Story Monday June 11, 2018

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"Transport is already on standby" ... but which kind of transport? Will they use mundane ways to protect direction to "here" like opaque windows or will they make them sleep again? Or is that some sort of teleport?

Hmmm ... both Arthur and Sybil correctly predicted Ashley will start crying the moment she will think noone she don't know well is looking. BTW we still don't know who is behind that window.

Ellen is practical. She truly has all sort of various experiences, like thinking she will die, almost being killed, her girlfriend almost being killed ... yeah no problem here. But Ashley, despite not being possessed by anyone ... yeah it must've been scariest thing happening to her. (Although I can imagine Dame Tara to comment she's "loosing her touch" or something as reaction to this.)

Aaand, Sybil is on Magus's side. Arthur isn't. Would he be this moved by young woman who wouldn't be "married" to his creation? Let's see, was he aware of any woman being endangered by buldog dragon?

... and "arrange for Arthur to speak with Abraham"? Seems Abraham is no longer "stoned". Still, what do they expect to learn from him? He doesn't exactly have experience in many fields ... except one. He was able to trace Elliot and Ellen. Right. They want to use his knowledge to trace Magus. I hope they will at least tell him he's not supposed to kill him.

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41 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Aaand, Sybil is on Magus's side. Arthur isn't. Would he be this moved by young woman who wouldn't be "married" to his creation? Let's see, was he aware of any woman being endangered by buldog dragon?

I'm not sure Arthur cares because Ashley has a connection with Kevin. I think it's because he knows Ashley (who has relatively little experience with magic) had to deal with some really upsetting parts of magic and Dan thought Arthur would empathize with her pain.

As for Sybil being "on" Magus' side, I'm not so sure about that either. Part of her job seems to entail bringing up alternative arguments to Arthur, and she doesn't object to his reasoning afterwards.

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25 minutes ago, Servant of Tara Gilesbie said:

I'm not sure Arthur cares because Ashley has a connection with Kevin. I think it's because he knows Ashley (who has relatively little experience with magic) had to deal with some really upsetting parts of magic and Dan thought Arthur would empathize with her pain.

Anyway, in his previous appearances he didn't seem to empathize with people so easily ... while Edward Verres did and was fired sideways for that.

26 minutes ago, Servant of Tara Gilesbie said:

As for Sybil being "on" Magus' side, I'm not so sure about that either. Part of her job seems to entail bringing up alternative arguments to Arthur, and she doesn't object to his reasoning afterwards.

Yes, saying she's "on Magus's side" might be overstatement. Still, I don't think she always argues against Arthur just to bring it up.

... BTW, obviously she was behind the mirror earlier, as she wasn't in the room but apparently knew what was told there. Still she might not be alone there.

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Edward was fired for unprofessional conduct affecting his ability to carry out his job, not for caring. The others might goof off but they are all able to handle their jobs. It is also a higher position, so there is less room for mistakes.

Of course, it brings up what will happen if it comes to light that he was being influenced outside his own control.

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"When Ellen gets back, the book shows... nothing new. Odd. Elliot's, however, has been added by the dozen." Not the scenario I want, but still is on my list.

Those better be tears of joy. I shall not scrutinize emotions any longer.

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Poor Ashley. She's been through a lot.

5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

"Transport is already on standby" ... but which kind of transport? Will they use mundane ways to protect direction to "here" like opaque windows or will they make them sleep again? Or is that some sort of teleport?

Ellen has already displayed an extreme dislike of sleep magic, so I doubt that will be used. Simplest answer would be in the back of a windowless van.

5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Aaand, Sybil is on Magus's side. Arthur isn't. Would he be this moved by young woman who wouldn't be "married" to his creation? Let's see, was he aware of any woman being endangered by buldog dragon?

Arthur strikes me as the kind of person that would be willing to deal with unsavory consequences to achieve the desired goal. "The ends justify the means" though maybe not as extreme as characters that live by phrase tend to go.

4 hours ago, weirdee said:

Edward was fired for unprofessional conduct affecting his ability to carry out his job, not for caring. The others might goof off but they are all able to handle their jobs. It is also a higher position, so there is less room for mistakes.

Of course, it brings up what will happen if it comes to light that he was being influenced outside his own control.

Magus had refused to amplify Edward's emotions, which is what led to the falling out between him and Pandora. Edward's actions were driven entirely by his own anguish and rage.

Though even if Magus had been influencing Edward, I think that'll only justify Liefeld's decision to move Edward to another (new) division instead of firing him completely, which is likely what would have happened if he didn't have the connections he does.

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5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

"Transport is already on standby" ... but which kind of transport? Will they use mundane ways to protect direction to "here" like opaque windows or will they make them sleep again? Or is that some sort of teleport?

I don't think they'll be put to sleep again, especially after Ellen's reaction once she had woken up after the last time. Probably the van with darkend/no windows will be the best choice.

5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Hmmm ... both Arthur and Sybil correctly predicted Ashley will start crying the moment she will think noone she don't know well is looking. BTW we still don't know who is behind that window.

I don't think they predicted it, rather they just saw her break down crying from the other side of the mirror/window.  I don't believe Ashley was holding it in for the sake of not letting strangers see her cry, it's more like the whole reality of what's happened has just sunk in.

5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Ellen is practical. She truly has all sort of various experiences, like thinking she will die, almost being killed, her girlfriend almost being killed ... yeah no problem here. But Ashley, despite not being possessed by anyone ... yeah it must've been scariest thing happening to her. (Although I can imagine Dame Tara to comment she's "loosing her touch" or something as reaction to this.)

Basically, yeah, we don't know what Ashley did when she got home after her first date with Elliot, seeing Elliot being chased around like that would have been scary for her even her encounter with Voltaire would have been disturbing.

This though, having her boyfriend possessed by another person, a vampire possessing Ellen, having been influenced by magic from various sources (Magus, the diamond, Arthur), everything else.... it was like:

First Date: "Ashley seemed to take this very well!"

Second Date: "Hold my beer."

6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Aaand, Sybil is on Magus's side. Arthur isn't. Would he be this moved by young woman who wouldn't be "married" to his creation? Let's see, was he aware of any woman being endangered by buldog dragon?

I think Arthur's sympathetic to Magus' situation as well, as Elliot wasn't sure if he'd do anything differently if he was in the same position, Arthur could also be unable to think of any alternatives that Magus could have taken to achieve his deserved freedom. But Ashley was an innocent bystander who was essentially kidnapped, so if anything Magus needs to atone for that just as much if not more than he needs to atone for putting Ellen through what he did.

As for the bulldog dragon, either Arthur was optimistic about the outcome, or he know at the time that Elliot was Cheerleadra. Apparently they didn't know that stuff was going on at the Dojo during this so they likely didn't know the entire scope of the situation until after it had been resolved.

6 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... and "arrange for Arthur to speak with Abraham"? Seems Abraham is no longer "stoned". Still, what do they expect to learn from him? He doesn't exactly have experience in many fields ... except one. He was able to trace Elliot and Ellen. Right. They want to use his knowledge to trace Magus. I hope they will at least tell him he's not supposed to kill him.

I'm thinking he could help track down Magus as well considering how Arthur mentioned meeting with him after he stated his intention of finding Magus. It's likely that Arthur will also update Abraham on Ellen, Elliot and Magus, I kinda expect Abraham to either ask about Ellen or Arthur to ask what Abraham's intentions would be with Ellen should Abraham be set free, Abraham did promise not to harm Ellen and he'll likely tell Arthur that as well and it would be up to Arthur to believe him or not.

I also think that Arthur might be obligated to inform Abraham of the diamond's destruction and maybe ask about how his master came to possess the diamond to begin with. Seems like a step one would take towards trying to find out the diamond's origins, worst case scenario would be that Abraham was never told what the diamond was meant for, hence why he'd think it was just a large gemstone. At best Arthur could hope that Abraham would know where his master got the diamond and then Arthur can move on from there.

5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Anyway, in his previous appearances he didn't seem to empathize with people so easily ... while Edward Verres did and was fired sideways for that.

I think Arthur's behaviour back then was simply due to it being his duty to maintain secrecy above all else, he was willing to do what it took to accomplish it even if he didn't agree with it, to quote Star Trek "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" would probably be a driving force for his decisions, after his meeting with the WoM and finding Kevin though, he's thrown all that out the window and seems to be following his heart more than he is with logic.

Edward however, got overly emotional which could have gotten someone killed, Abraham had already surrendered at that point, and if it was a cop that shot an unarmed person who already had their hand's up, there'd be a whole crapstorm so I'd say Edward got off easy there. It also helped that Edward was apparently soo important to the safety of the nation or even world, that Arthur felt obligated to allow the fake Cheerleadra sighting.

 

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8 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... and "arrange for Arthur to speak with Abraham"? Seems Abraham is no longer "stoned". Still, what do they expect to learn from him? He doesn't exactly have experience in many fields ... except one. He was able to trace Elliot and Ellen. Right. They want to use his knowledge to trace Magus. I hope they will at least tell him he's not supposed to kill him.

Perhaps the destruction of the "Diamond" has permanently released him from the spell. After all, it existed solely to keep him alive so he could stop whatever the Diamond created, so now that it is destroyed the spell is no longer necessary. Maybe he'll end up working for the DGB.

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45 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I think Arthur's behaviour back then was simply due to it being his duty to maintain secrecy above all else, he was willing to do what it took to accomplish it even if he didn't agree with it, to quote Star Trek "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" would probably be a driving force for his decisions, after his meeting with the WoM and finding Kevin though, he's thrown all that out the window and seems to be following his heart more than he is with logic.

And turns out I might be right in this case:

He's not distancing himself now, but whether he goes back to doing so or not remains to be seen, he doesn't seem to have any obligation to, but maybe old habits die hard?

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11 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... and "arrange for Arthur to speak with Abraham"? Seems Abraham is no longer "stoned". Still, what do they expect to learn from him? He doesn't exactly have experience in many fields ... except one. He was able to trace Elliot and Ellen. Right. They want to use his knowledge to trace Magus. I hope they will at least tell him he's not supposed to kill him.

 

Not exactly.  What she said was, "I will arrange for you to speak with the creator of the diamond."

Abraham didn't create the diamond, he just put a spell or enchantment on it that made it separate the cursed from the curse.  Adrian already pointed out he could have sold the diamond and hired someone more competent.

I suspect, just from the phrasing here, that she's not referring to Abraham.  My first question is, are the creator of the diamond and the original owner of that scale one and the same?

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15 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

Not exactly.  What she said was, "I will arrange for you to speak with the creator of the diamond."

Abraham didn't create the diamond, he just put a spell or enchantment on it that made it separate the cursed from the curse.  Adrian already pointed out he could have sold the diamond and hired someone more competent.

I suspect, just from the phrasing here, that she's not referring to Abraham.  My first question is, are the creator of the diamond and the original owner of that scale one and the same?

 

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12 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

Abraham is not the "Creator" of the diamond, just like Tedd is not the creator of the wands and Carl Sagan is not the creator of the apple pie.

We get it, we get it, you are a God-King and you make the Sun come up, NOW STOP HARPING ON IT GOLDARNIT. :demonicduck:

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13 hours ago, Stature said:

"When Ellen gets back, the book shows... nothing new. Odd. Elliot's, however, has been added by the dozen." Not the scenario I want, but still is on my list.

My prediction: Ellen's book will have something new. After trying to read it for hour, Ellen would STILL not know anything more than that it's something new. The word "dragon" would definitely not been used.

... and we KNOW Elliot got at least one spell since looking into book last time. Maybe he will look too?

8 hours ago, Scotty said:
14 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Hmmm ... both Arthur and Sybil correctly predicted Ashley will start crying the moment she will think noone she don't know well is looking. BTW we still don't know who is behind that window.

I don't think they predicted it, rather they just saw her break down crying from the other side of the mirror/window.  I don't believe Ashley was holding it in for the sake of not letting strangers see her cry, it's more like the whole reality of what's happened has just sunk in.

Arthur said he wants to give them more minutes BEFORE Ashley started crying. And it's not like Ashley was deliberately holding it, more like she was still in sort of fight mode, holding it subconsciously.

8 hours ago, Scotty said:

Basically, yeah, we don't know what Ashley did when she got home after her first date with Elliot

The "griffins are awesome" likely overrided that initial scary factor at that point.

8 hours ago, Scotty said:

I also think that Arthur might be obligated to inform Abraham of the diamond's destruction and maybe ask about how his master came to possess the diamond to begin with. Seems like a step one would take towards trying to find out the diamond's origins, worst case scenario would be that Abraham was never told what the diamond was meant for, hence why he'd think it was just a large gemstone. At best Arthur could hope that Abraham would know where his master got the diamond and then Arthur can move on from there.

Oh, they definitely should ask him about that. Magus didn't though Abraham knows anything, but he might be mistaken ... and, even if he's right, they STILL need to try. But in the context, asking him because they want to trace Magus seems more likely.

Also, I suspect Abraham already knows about the diamond destruction.

8 hours ago, Scotty said:

I think Arthur's behaviour back then was simply due to it being his duty to maintain secrecy above all else, he was willing to do what it took to accomplish it even if he didn't agree with it, to quote Star Trek "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" would probably be a driving force for his decisions, after his meeting with the WoM and finding Kevin though, he's thrown all that out the window and seems to be following his heart more than he is with logic.

Hmmmm ... that make sense.

8 hours ago, Scotty said:

Edward however, got overly emotional which could have gotten someone killed, Abraham had already surrendered at that point, and if it was a cop that shot an unarmed person who already had their hand's up, there'd be a whole crapstorm so I'd say Edward got off easy there. It also helped that Edward was apparently soo important to the safety of the nation or even world, that Arthur felt obligated to allow the fake Cheerleadra sighting.

The exposition which stopped deathless army of rage from rampaging in search of enlightement might not be only case Edward saved the nation or even world. Also, it is possible firing him would worsen cooperation with other nations, like maybe Noriko wouldn't like that ...

And about Cheerleadra ... I don't think Arthur would like if Cheerleadra identity would be public and press would keep trying to get informations about how she get magic from her.

6 hours ago, Alwaysnewguy said:
14 hours ago, hkmaly said:

... and "arrange for Arthur to speak with Abraham"? Seems Abraham is no longer "stoned". Still, what do they expect to learn from him? He doesn't exactly have experience in many fields ... except one. He was able to trace Elliot and Ellen. Right. They want to use his knowledge to trace Magus. I hope they will at least tell him he's not supposed to kill him.

Perhaps the destruction of the "Diamond" has permanently released him from the spell. After all, it existed solely to keep him alive so he could stop whatever the Diamond created, so now that it is destroyed the spell is no longer necessary. Maybe he'll end up working for the DGB.

Quite likely, and even if not, he should be at least temporary awaken by the diamond splitting another person.

(It is still question if the spell "stoned" him automatically or if he just cast it again manually.)

3 hours ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Not exactly.  What she said was, "I will arrange for you to speak with the creator of the diamond."

Abraham didn't create the diamond, he just put a spell or enchantment on it that made it separate the cursed from the curse.  Adrian already pointed out he could have sold the diamond and hired someone more competent.

I suspect, just from the phrasing here, that she's not referring to Abraham.  My first question is, are the creator of the diamond and the original owner of that scale one and the same?

 

... and I was going to comment that perhaps Arthur is not AWARE of Abraham not creating the diamond ... but seems he IS aware and is just using "creator" loosely.

Anyway, anyone else who could be referred as creator of that diamond is likely dead. That definitely includes Abraham's teacher ... and probably the dragon as well.

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Just now, hkmaly said:

Arthur said he wants to give them more minutes BEFORE Ashley started crying. And it's not like Ashley was deliberately holding it, more like she was still in sort of fight mode, holding it subconsciously.

Just because he said he wanted to give them more minutes doesn't mean that several had already passed, there's no indication of the any passage of time between him stating that and Ashley crying.

Alternatively, Ashley starting to cry is what prompted Arthur to leave the room and give them a few minutes for her to get it out of her system, but no indication that going from panel 2 to panel 3 was a bit of a rewind.

7 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

The "griffins are awesome" likely overrided that initial scary factor at that point.

I don't recall Ashley being that way, Diane on the other hand...

9 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Also, I suspect Abraham already knows about the diamond destruction.

Maybe, it's uncertain whether he'd have a way of sensing it's destruction, or if he just has a feeling that something happened beyond the diamond creating another duplicate. He might be in his cell demanding they let him out so that he can find out what happened.

16 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

And about Cheerleadra ... I don't think Arthur would like if Cheerleadra identity would be public and press would keep trying to get informations about how she get magic from her.

Another motive for Arthur allowing the fake sighting could be that he had resigned to accept that Magic was going to change sooner or later anyway and that there wasn't anything he could do to prevent it. He could have been hoping that the slate could be wiped clean and then they could start rebuilding the secrecy from the ground up, unfortunately for him, he didn't count on there being 1 in 7 million people being a Seer nor him, or Tedd being part of the discussion about the fate of magic.

Speaking of which though, Arthur was probably extremely close to becoming ineligible for the meeting consider he had the concept of magic being some sort of entity with the ability to change and that he wasn't going to try to "hoodwink" all he needed to do was realize that he could actually be capable of manipulating how things could change and that would have prevented him from being there.

Which brings me to another question, to those 2 that figured out their second purpose, did they sense the change and think "huh? wasn't I supposed to be part of deciding this?" and think they might have been wrong? or would they somehow be told that they had made themselves ineligible?

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33 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Arthur said he wants to give them more minutes BEFORE Ashley started crying. And it's not like Ashley was deliberately holding it, more like she was still in sort of fight mode, holding it subconsciously.

Just because he said he wanted to give them more minutes doesn't mean that several had already passed, there's no indication of the any passage of time between him stating that and Ashley crying.

Alternatively, Ashley starting to cry is what prompted Arthur to leave the room and give them a few minutes for her to get it out of her system, but no indication that going from panel 2 to panel 3 was a bit of a rewind.

Unless talking is free action, the second panel took about 5 seconds and third about 8 seconds. So, unless there were rewind, Arthur predicted it by at least 10 seconds.

35 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

The "griffins are awesome" likely overrided that initial scary factor at that point.

I don't recall Ashley being that way, Diane on the other hand...

She was not shown that way, but I still think when returning home she already considered Dame Tara friend and was unlikely to be scared of her.

36 minutes ago, Scotty said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Also, I suspect Abraham already knows about the diamond destruction.

Maybe, it's uncertain whether he'd have a way of sensing it's destruction, or if he just has a feeling that something happened beyond the diamond creating another duplicate. He might be in his cell demanding they let him out so that he can find out what happened.

Modern Knowledge.

37 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Speaking of which though, Arthur was probably extremely close to becoming ineligible for the meeting consider he had the concept of magic being some sort of entity with the ability to change and that he wasn't going to try to "hoodwink" all he needed to do was realize that he could actually be capable of manipulating how things could change and that would have prevented him from being there.

Not really. He didn't even realize he is seer and that seers have ANYTHING to do with magic reset.

38 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Which brings me to another question, to those 2 that figured out their second purpose, did they sense the change and think "huh? wasn't I supposed to be part of deciding this?" and think they might have been wrong? or would they somehow be told that they had made themselves ineligible?

I would assume they did sensed the change ... although maybe not. They would be informed about the reset, but the change might be hidden ...

And good question about the "was I wrong" ... if they really got ineligible by speculations, they might not be sure about it. On the other hand, IF they got ineligible by READING some description of previous reset, then they realized they made themselves ineligible while reading it.

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1 minute ago, hkmaly said:

Modern Knowledge.

We don't know if that would include what happened to the diamond, also no guaranteed that he'd use it if he doesn't think too much time has passed, ie, he wakes up in the same cell that he got "stoned" in.

3 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Not really. He didn't even realize he is seer and that seers have ANYTHING to do with magic reset.

That was the piece I was referring to.

5 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

And good question about the "was I wrong" ... if they really got ineligible by speculations, they might not be sure about it. On the other hand, IF they got ineligible by READING some description of previous reset, then they realized they made themselves ineligible while reading it.

So they would have gotten to the end of the sentence and gone "Oh crap...I guess I won't be going to that party then..."

 

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3 hours ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Modern Knowledge.

We don't know if that would include what happened to the diamond, also no guaranteed that he'd use it if he doesn't think too much time has passed, ie, he wakes up in the same cell that he got "stoned" in.

We don't know for sure, no. Also, it apparently doesn't include pop culture references. Still, I suspect that knowledge about the diamond would be very important to him and if he is able to cast spells like that ... and as you mentioned, if he would know something happened and not be sure what, he IS likely to cast spells to find out.

3 hours ago, Scotty said:
3 hours ago, hkmaly said:

And good question about the "was I wrong" ... if they really got ineligible by speculations, they might not be sure about it. On the other hand, IF they got ineligible by READING some description of previous reset, then they realized they made themselves ineligible while reading it.

So they would have gotten to the end of the sentence and gone "Oh crap...I guess I won't be going to that party then..."

Something like  that. It might be next sentence.

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12 hours ago, hkmaly said:

My prediction: Ellen's book will have something new. After trying to read it for hour, Ellen would STILL not know anything more than that it's something new. The word "dragon" would definitely not been used.

... and we KNOW Elliot got at least one spell since looking into book last time. Maybe he will look too?

"Best. Disappointment. Ever." Strikes back?

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So that previous reddit post where Dan explained that he felt that people would recognize "creator" as referring to Abraham, I mentioned that I had expected Abraham to show up sooner considering Pandora had told Magus that he'd be an adversary. Here's Dan's reply:

So it's been open to interpretation for a while but seems like Pandora could have been wrong about the whole thing.

 

Also, Dan made a couple tumblr posts on the similarities and differences between Arthur and Edward. What Dan says about Edward is interesting:

https://danshive.tumblr.com/post/174828985692/egscomics-is-everyone-in-this-comic-secretly-a

https://danshive.tumblr.com/post/174830966612/mr-verres

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4 hours ago, Scotty said:

So that previous reddit post where Dan explained that he felt that people would recognize "creator" as referring to Abraham, I mentioned that I had expected Abraham to show up sooner considering Pandora had told Magus that he'd be an adversary. Here's Dan's reply:

So it's been open to interpretation for a while but seems like Pandora could have been wrong about the whole thing.

Well ... there is also the possibility he will became Magus's adversary later, while helping DGB track him.

 

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