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The Old Hack

Story Friday June 15, 2018

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5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

But, he might convert that money to gold or something ... 

Magus offered to show Sirleck how to turn straw into gold.  As Sirleck pointed out, any such action would quickly result in devaluation of gold, so I suspect it's not worth much there.

2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Not sure if hotels report who's accommodating but ATM card and credit cards definitely do report any use.

These days, any decent hotel will insist on a credit card to keep on file until you've checked out and the room's been checked for damage and/or theft.  They might not be so scrupulous at cheap places, but that place had room service with actual dishes left out in the hallway, which a bad motel wouldn't have.

He might be able to find a nice hotel with someone on staff he could bribe to let him stay in a room off the books, I suppose....but attempting that with a random hotel would be far too likely to draw unwanted attention.  We're back to having to assume Sirleck had something set up ahead of time.

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26 minutes ago, Scotty said:

which would explain why he used Mr. Magus instead of Mr. Dunkel

Just because he gave the pizza place the name Magus, doesn't mean that's the name he used when getting the hotel room.  He could easily pay cash for pizzas without raising any suspicions.

6 hours ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

When Magus, in Elliot's body, touched the diamond several different things happened.
Elliot's body was duplicated, with a different hair colour.
Elliot's clothes were duplicated, in different colours.

I've said before, I think Sirleck-in-Ellen zapped Elliot with a hair-color-changing beam (and no other effect), but perhaps either Ellen is able to affect clothing color too, or Magus altered the color of Elliot's clothing magically in the hopes that it would result in the enchantment-separation effect putting him in that color of clothing as well as that hair color.  Could be due to vanity (the original colors clashed with blonde hair?), or wanting to make them visually distinct from each other, or so that the authorities couldn't just snap a picture of Elliot in what he was wearing and say "look for him, in that outfit, but blonde!"

Quote

Would Elliot's wallet have been duplicated?
If so, would the duplicated versions of Elliot's driver license and ATM card have been sufficiently accurate for ordinary commerce (like providing passable ID for an eighteen year old kid who wants to check into a nice hotel paying cash)?

They probably would be, as long as there wasn't any enchantment on them.  It's possible the credit card would be scrambled, but the numbers are printed on them, too, and if he had (non-fake) ID to back it up, they'd just type in the numbers.

Hmm, Elliot's youth might work fo him there, if Magus is a good enough actor to pull off playing the dumb kid who didn't realize you need a credit card to get a room, and aim for sympathy from the desk clerk, but it would be difficult to come up with a good reason for him to have all that cash honestly yet not have any credit card or the knowledge he'd need one.  And it would make him awfully memorable if someone started checking hotels for him.

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30 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

They probably would be, as long as there wasn't any enchantment on them.  It's possible the credit card would be scrambled, but the numbers are printed on them, too, and if he had (non-fake) ID to back it up, they'd just type in the numbers.

I still think that neon pink dollar bills might attract a bit of attention, too. :danshiftyeyes:

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9 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

To me the biggest issue is that there is no history between Sirleck and anyone-who-looks-like-Elliot. Transferring significant wealth from old-man-host to Magus-host, or to Magus, or to Elliot/Ellen, with no documentable past connection between them, is going to look suspicious no matter what. Them getting wealth seemingly out of nowhere would be equally suspicious. And the only ones of the possible heirs who could definitely stand up to both mundane and magical scrutiny, because they've done nothing relevant that's questionable, are Elliot and Ellen. (Plus, Magus probably does want to go back to his own universe.)

8 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Nevertheless, Sirleck DID done so before. He considers it hard but doable.

It's the absence of connection between the old host and the new one that makes this more difficult and risky than necessary. There are a variety of ways to create a connection that will easily pass routine inspection, but they take some time and the new host must physically exist in the same universe as the old one.

In this instance, the butler was a suitable candidate. Alternatively, Sirleck could have adopted and become the benefactor of an orphan, and changed hosts at some point in the orphan's life when the abandonment of prior non-family connections is pretty common - such as graduation from high school or college.

Prior instances - there's no reason to assume he chose to do things the hard way. He didn't have the incentive of his intended new host being a wizard.

 

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8 hours ago, Scotty said:

I doubt Elliot would have had the money to pay for that pizza anyway and if there was a debit or credit card in there, using that would certainly alert Elliot to Magus' possible whereabouts. Maybe he just took what was in the wallet and destroyed it because stealing Elliot's identity was never Magus' intention, which would explain why he used Mr. Magus instead of Mr. Dunkel (assuming that Dunkel is also his last name considering Ellen's his real first name). Both names would equally draw attention to DGB if they were searching for anyone ordering stuff or renting a room or something.

Even Mr. Magus is likely to draw attention of DGB. But yes: using Elliot's card would draw even attention of Elliot.

8 hours ago, Scotty said:
11 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I still wonder where their phones were.

Left at the Dunkel residence likely. I don't think Magus would have trashed them or dumped them out the car window halfway to the facility.

Ellen was using phone here - but thinking about it, it was probably borrowed one.

8 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
14 hours ago, hkmaly said:

But, he might convert that money to gold or something ... 

Magus offered to show Sirleck how to turn straw into gold.  As Sirleck pointed out, any such action would quickly result in devaluation of gold, so I suspect it's not worth much there.

Good point. Microelectronics it is, then.

If Magus would be smart, he could start computer revolution on his world with stuff bought for just few hundreds dollars. Although I suspect he wouldn't be so smart and would forgot some important detail. Like, just bringing CPU would be useless: even WE don't have technology to open current top CPU and get the scheme from it, it's just too small. (It was being done with 80386, though.)

With millions, he could bring something like mapping satellite with him. He would still need to get it to orbit, but imagine how much easier would be fighting dragons with ability to track them from heights they can't reach.

(That is assuming they don't have that technology already, but that's what I'm expecting from civilization of people not knowing how cars works.)

Also, it's still open question if say FIM-92 Stinger wouldn't be usable upgrade for them ... U.S.$38,000, not so costly ...

8 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

These days, any decent hotel will insist on a credit card to keep on file until you've checked out and the room's been checked for damage and/or theft.  They might not be so scrupulous at cheap places, but that place had room service with actual dishes left out in the hallway, which a bad motel wouldn't have.

He might be able to find a nice hotel with someone on staff he could bribe to let him stay in a room off the books, I suppose....but attempting that with a random hotel would be far too likely to draw unwanted attention.  We're back to having to assume Sirleck had something set up ahead of time.

1) Makes sense Sirleck would prepare something like this

2) He doesn't need to bribe anyone. He can cast some spell on them.

8 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
8 hours ago, Scotty said:

which would explain why he used Mr. Magus instead of Mr. Dunkel

Just because he gave the pizza place the name Magus, doesn't mean that's the name he used when getting the hotel room.  He could easily pay cash for pizzas without raising any suspicions.

But he used PHONE to order the pizza.

6 hours ago, Don Edwards said:
14 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Nevertheless, Sirleck DID done so before. He considers it hard but doable.

It's the absence of connection between the old host and the new one that makes this more difficult and risky than necessary. There are a variety of ways to create a connection that will easily pass routine inspection, but they take some time and the new host must physically exist in the same universe as the old one.

In this instance, the butler was a suitable candidate. Alternatively, Sirleck could have adopted and become the benefactor of an orphan, and changed hosts at some point in the orphan's life when the abandonment of prior non-family connections is pretty common - such as graduation from high school or college.

Prior instances - there's no reason to assume he chose to do things the hard way. He didn't have the incentive of his intended new host being a wizard.

Hmmm ... that WOULD actually match the fact he complained that it takes time to setup this ...

 

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4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Ellen was using phone here - but thinking about it, it was probably borrowed one.

The phone was probably supplied by Arthur, might have had measures to prevent backtracing as well. Nanase likely didn't know it was Ellen until she answered.

4 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Good point. Microelectronics it is, then.

If Magus would be smart, he could start computer revolution on his world with stuff bought for just few hundreds dollars. Although I suspect he wouldn't be so smart and would forgot some important detail. Like, just bringing CPU would be useless: even WE don't have technology to open current top CPU and get the scheme from it, it's just too small. (It was being done with 80386, though.)

With millions, he could bring something like mapping satellite with him. He would still need to get it to orbit, but imagine how much easier would be fighting dragons with ability to track them from heights they can't reach.

(That is assuming they don't have that technology already, but that's what I'm expecting from civilization of people not knowing how cars works.)

Also, it's still open question if say FIM-92 Stinger wouldn't be usable upgrade for them ... U.S.$38,000, not so costly ...

Probably would just be better to find some texts on logic gates and stuff and work from there. Maybe take one of these back:

209633706_c2bda52013_o.jpg

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:
5 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Ellen was using phone here - but thinking about it, it was probably borrowed one.

The phone was probably supplied by Arthur, might have had measures to prevent backtracing as well. Nanase likely didn't know it was Ellen until she answered.

Supplied? Yes. Arthur's own? Unlikely. IMHO fresh from storage.

I'm pretty sure the "regular" phones they are using are not regular either. Remember how Tedd wasn't allowed to talk about secret stuff on landline? Yet they talked about fighting monster, summoning, transforming, awakening and Lord Tedd later. Seriously they hardly missed ANY top secret stuff in that conversation - they were TALKING ABOUT HOW EASY IS TO GET MAGIC. But it was OK, because it was Tedd's DGB-issued phone with top encryption and special secret "do not record" flag in communication. All main eight got one.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Probably would just be better to find some texts on logic gates and stuff and work from there. Maybe take one of these back:

209633706_c2bda52013_o.jpg

He should get that TOO. If he's smart. It's not one or other, he needs the rocket to show it's worth it and all sort of documentation and small chips done by obsolete technology to show how to do it. Chemical side of it too.

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I wonder if the world Magus is from, which uses "magic", may not have developed physics beyond the era of Newton?

Newtonian physics very useful for your day to day issues involving matter and energy a human scale.  But if this is a society that embraces "magic", would they make the leaps into relativity and quantum mechanics?  Much of our electronics is dependent upon Quantum principles.

And no.  I do not insist that the home world for Magus must be some sort of gas lit, smoggy, soot covered, Victorian steampunk movie set where everyone on the street has some sort of magic item and speaks with a Cockney accent even if they aren't in London.

I don't insist on it.

But c'mon... what else could it be?

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Supplied? Yes. Arthur's own? Unlikely. IMHO fresh from storage.

Sorry, phrasing wasn't clear, I didn't mean he'd let Ellen have his own phone, but he would have given her A phone to use.

1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

I'm pretty sure the "regular" phones they are using are not regular either. Remember how Tedd wasn't allowed to talk about secret stuff on landline? Yet they talked about fighting monster, summoning, transforming, awakening and Lord Tedd later. Seriously they hardly missed ANY top secret stuff in that conversation - they were TALKING ABOUT HOW EASY IS TO GET MAGIC. But it was OK, because it was Tedd's DGB-issued phone with top encryption and special secret "do not record" flag in communication. All main eight got one.

And don't forget Ashley taking pictures of Elliot's Cheerleadra 2.0 form, was that her phone she used, or Elliot's? I guess it probably doesn't matter now if Elliot never uses that form again and with magic being more open there might not be as much effort to cover up incidents anymore.

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1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I wonder if the world Magus is from, which uses "magic", may not have developed physics beyond the era of Newton?

And COULD it? In that advices to Magus, I assumed the physical laws in his universe are same as EGS's one. But maybe they aren't. He didn't even arrived here with body to prove his body physics is compatible with EGS universe. Still, worth the try.

1 hour ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

relativity and quantum mechanics?  Much of our electronics is dependent upon Quantum principles.

Relativity too. Lot of electronics needs to be build with the knowledge of speed of light used, and GPS satelites needs to account for time dilation caused by them being in lower gravity than on Earth's surface.

17 minutes ago, Scotty said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Supplied? Yes. Arthur's own? Unlikely. IMHO fresh from storage.

Sorry, phrasing wasn't clear, I didn't mean he'd let Ellen have his own phone, but he would have given her A phone to use.

Then we agree.

17 minutes ago, Scotty said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

I'm pretty sure the "regular" phones they are using are not regular either. Remember how Tedd wasn't allowed to talk about secret stuff on landline? Yet they talked about fighting monster, summoning, transforming, awakening and Lord Tedd later. Seriously they hardly missed ANY top secret stuff in that conversation - they were TALKING ABOUT HOW EASY IS TO GET MAGIC. But it was OK, because it was Tedd's DGB-issued phone with top encryption and special secret "do not record" flag in communication. All main eight got one.

And don't forget Ashley taking pictures of Elliot's Cheerleadra 2.0 form, was that her phone she used, or Elliot's? I guess it probably doesn't matter now if Elliot never uses that form again and with magic being more open there might not be as much effort to cover up incidents anymore.

Probably her phone. But don't worry, she gets her own DGB-secured phone soon ... and they will copy the content from her old phone to it and then wipe the old phone with EMP.

And even if someone already did get to those pictures, they probably don't really prove anything more than what is already public between the videos from previous Cheerleadra fights and Voltaire calling Elliot by name. It's not like she recorded the conversation or taken video - it's just static images.

Still, I'm sure both her and Elliot will be told it was bad idea when Edward finds out.

 

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49 minutes ago, Pharaoh RutinTutin said:

I wonder if the world Magus is from, which uses "magic", may not have developed physics beyond the era of Newton?

Newtonian physics very useful for your day to day issues involving matter and energy a human scale.  But if this is a society that embraces "magic", would they make the leaps into relativity and quantum mechanics?  Much of our electronics is dependent upon Quantum principles.

And no.  I do not insist that the home world for Magus must be some sort of gas lit, smoggy, soot covered, Victorian steampunk movie set where everyone on the street has some sort of magic item and speaks with a Cockney accent even if they aren't in London.

I don't insist on it.

But c'mon... what else could it be?

I had theorize before that if Magus' world had a seer that managed to do what Tedd did much sooner in Earth's history and that with magic being more open, a lot of problems that Humans came across were eventually solved with magic rather than technology, so guns and rockets would never have been invented.

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7 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I had theorize before that if Magus' world had a seer that managed to do what Tedd did much sooner in Earth's history and that with magic being more open, a lot of problems that Humans came across were eventually solved with magic rather than technology, so guns and rockets would never have been invented.

Or maybe Magic in that world just had a different agenda.

For all we know, Magic in our world specifically wanted to lay low in order to encourage humanity to be as independent of magic as possible whereas Magic in Magus' world said, "Bugger that, let's everybody just have fun."

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38 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I had theorize before that if Magus' world had a seer that managed to do what Tedd did much sooner in Earth's history and that with magic being more open, a lot of problems that Humans came across were eventually solved with magic rather than technology, so guns and rockets would never have been invented.

That sounds logical, except they obviously did NOT solved the problem with dragons.

Also, Tedd basically convinced magic that keeping magic secret is futile ; I don't think it would be possible so much earlier. Of course, that doesn't rule out some seer convinced magic by different argument.

28 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:

Or maybe Magic in that world just had a different agenda.

For all we know, Magic in our world specifically wanted to lay low in order to encourage humanity to be as independent of magic as possible whereas Magic in Magus' world said, "Bugger that, let's everybody just have fun."

We know that Magic on second half of EGS universe didn't cared about being public. Maybe Magus's world magic is similar? Maybe Magus's world have second half with secretive magic and more advanced technology?

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19 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

We know that Magic on second half of EGS universe didn't cared about being public. Maybe Magus's world magic is similar? Maybe Magus's world have second half with secretive magic and more advanced technology?

Or... maybe advanced technology DOES exist on Magus' world but is staying hidden from all the mages. :icon_eek:

DUN DUN DUNNNN. :danshiftyeyes:

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2 hours ago, The Old Hack said:

Or... maybe advanced technology DOES exist on Magus' world but is staying hidden from all the mages. :icon_eek:

Like, strictly cast-based society with technology cast keeping even details about technology secret from magic users and vice versa?

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1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Like, strictly cast-based society with technology cast keeping even details about technology secret from magic users and vice versa?

Actually I was being partly facetious, but I did have something in mind like an underground faction of people lacking in the ability to work magic and in self-defence working out different ways of doing things. Or alternately something like a state of warfare between technology and magic. Possibly like the Ascension War from the earlier edition of Mage: the Ascension but with the technologists on the losing side.

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44 minutes ago, The Old Hack said:
2 hours ago, hkmaly said:

Like, strictly cast-based society with technology cast keeping even details about technology secret from magic users and vice versa?

Actually I was being partly facetious, but I did have something in mind like an underground faction of people lacking in the ability to work magic and in self-defence working out different ways of doing things. Or alternately something like a state of warfare between technology and magic. Possibly like the Ascension War from the earlier edition of Mage: the Ascension but with the technologists on the losing side.

Problem is, unlike magic, technology is HARD to hide from your enemy in war. Especially losing one. (Still easier that in that class-based society.)

(Case in point, Dragonell cannons)

Underground faction? Maybe. Or some distant island which formally is in peace or at least armistice but is secretly developing technology to continue in war later. But they didn't had much technology when they lost battle last time.

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32 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Also, Tedd basically convinced magic that keeping magic secret is futile ; I don't think it would be possible so much earlier. Of course, that doesn't rule out some seer convinced magic by different argument.

The argument could have been that there needed to be some way of being able to defend against magical creatures like dragons, if the last attempted system change occurred when magic creatures were getting out of hand and more people turned to Magic for protection. The paths that the WoM could have taken at that point could have been "There are other ways to protect yourselves" or "Magic will make minimal changes to accommodate this request" or something to the effect that lets Humans continue using it.

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16 hours ago, Scotty said:
On 6/18/2018 at 7:01 AM, hkmaly said:

Also, Tedd basically convinced magic that keeping magic secret is futile ; I don't think it would be possible so much earlier. Of course, that doesn't rule out some seer convinced magic by different argument.

The argument could have been that there needed to be some way of being able to defend against magical creatures like dragons, if the last attempted system change occurred when magic creatures were getting out of hand and more people turned to Magic for protection. The paths that the WoM could have taken at that point could have been "There are other ways to protect yourselves" or "Magic will make minimal changes to accommodate this request" or something to the effect that lets Humans continue using it.

That would be one possible argument, although it would require magic not being able to do anything with dragons directly (which is possible - they may be so naturally magical they are outside the scope of possible changes).

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Just now, hkmaly said:

That would be one possible argument, although it would require magic not being able to do anything with dragons directly (which is possible - they may be so naturally magical they are outside the scope of possible changes).

Maybe Dragons were like Uryuoms*, where their magic came from within, and thus never affected by system changes.

*Not related to them, just saying that it might be possible that Uryuoms aren't the only beings that would generate their own energy.

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On 6/17/2018 at 2:56 PM, hkmaly said:

But he used PHONE to order the pizza.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make with this comment.  Most hotel rooms have phones.  Caller ID would say "Hotel Snooty" not the name he registered under.  The pizza girl and the hotel registration would have no contact between them.  No one would see any disparity.

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12 hours ago, Scotty said:
18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

That would be one possible argument, although it would require magic not being able to do anything with dragons directly (which is possible - they may be so naturally magical they are outside the scope of possible changes).

Maybe Dragons were like Uryuoms*, where their magic came from within, and thus never affected by system changes.

*Not related to them, just saying that it might be possible that Uryuoms aren't the only beings that would generate their own energy.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant by "naturally magical". The exact term is species with magic interwoven into their very nature.

10 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:
On 6/17/2018 at 9:56 PM, hkmaly said:

But he used PHONE to order the pizza.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make with this comment.  Most hotel rooms have phones.  Caller ID would say "Hotel Snooty" not the name he registered under.  The pizza girl and the hotel registration would have no contact between them.  No one would see any disparity.

I'm pointing out that NSA is wiretaping lot of phone calls as part of their Terrorist Surveillance Program and using data-mining software to search for "interesting" words in them. DGB can have similar capability and/or have ways to insert more words into the software. Even assuming the wiretaping is not completely global, hotels might been monitored due to high amount of foreigners in them.

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52 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

Remember, Uryuoms might not lose their magic, but their degree of access to our world's magic can change, and has!

Which is why I think Will of Magic would TRY to limit Dragon's access to magic.

52 minutes ago, CritterKeeper said:

Hmm, which really makes me want to see if Grace can use the watches now, since magic is no longer being kept in check....

Yes, I mentioned this already. In fact, I might've even asked Dan about it, not sure ... (I didn't get any answer, but I didn't get any answer to lot of things I'm asking, and this would likely be spoiler if answer is "yes").

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41 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Yes, I mentioned this already. In fact, I might've even asked Dan about it, not sure ... (I didn't get any answer, but I didn't get any answer to lot of things I'm asking, and this would likely be spoiler if answer is "yes").

Maybe this Q&A about whether or not Grace could learn Magic was foreshadowing the possibility of it becoming easier once the restrictions were removed?

I dunno for sure though, still makes sense for her to have to suppress the urge to use Uryuom Power like it would be to have to not treat an aircraft like a car or something.

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