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      Welcome!   03/05/2016

      Welcome, everyone, to the new 910CMX Community Forums. I'm still working on getting them running, so things may change.  If you're a 910 Comic creator and need your forum recreated, let me know and I'll get on it right away.  I'll do my best to make this new place as fun as the last one!
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Main Monday Jul 16, 2018

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37 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I'd say it was Pandora that did that, she was the one that first brought Sirleck in to bribe the guard to let Tedd and Elliot into the PTTwhatever. And Pandora dumping Magus for refusing to make Edward kill Abraham was what drove Magus to go back to Sirleck.

Well, she gave Magus the idea and helped with the start of the plot, but continuing on without her was Magus' decision, as was returning to Sirleck and coming up with the plan to distract the Immortals. It's possible (though in my opinion not certain) Pandora expected him to make those decisions, but the decisions and actions still belonged to Magus.

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1 minute ago, ChronosCat said:

Well, she gave Magus the idea and helped with the start of the plot, but continuing on without her was Magus' decision, as was returning to Sirleck and coming up with the plan to distract the Immortals. It's possible (though in my opinion not certain) Pandora expected him to make those decisions, but the decisions and actions still belonged to Magus.

Well if by decision you mean either stay in limbo and be tormented by Immortals for the rest of eternity, or go back to the one entity who had helped before and convince them that there'd be a big payoff at the end but it's basically a trap to kill them anyway because they're evil. There weren't many options for Magus.

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18 hours ago, The Old Hack said:
18 hours ago, hkmaly said:

It's surprising how many Hollywood movies will put some human villain into such story anyway.

It's Hollywood. If the movie doesn't contain certain clichés, they don't know what to do with themselves. If Hollywood ever produces a movie about the formation of the Universe as we know it, they will put a villain in it.

Then again, the Bible did that, too. I guess it is traditional.

I think villian in creation story is Older than dirt (warning, tvtropes link)

6 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

...Actually, though, this doesn't really feel like the end of an era to me. Sure, it's a major turning point, but Pandora will be back, the masquerade isn't going to be dropped immediately, and the change in magic didn't result in anyone loosing any magic. Pretty much the only things that ended were Pandora's instability, Magus' time as an incorporeal entity, and Sirleck's life, none of which I expect to have a major impact on the main cast's lives (at least once they get past the worst of the pain of Pandora's reset and until Magus launches his next plot, whatever that might be). The magic clog is supposed to end too, and that might actually have a big impact on the cast, but we haven't seen that yet.

I think what will really serve as the biggest ends-of-eras in EGS will be the cast getting out of High School, and (assuming the comic gets that far) their getting out of College. I suppose it would be quite the coincidence to have the gang have to deal with Lord Tedd right around one of those times, but that's the sort of thing I was thinking of.

... well ... it's true that it's more like turning point than actual end of era because the masquerade would still stay for some time ... and while the older forms of magic became active (and there is that one Uryuom who liked it too much), it will likely take some time to actually have some effect ...

Also, it's true that given how EGS is written, events like Elliot breaking up with Sarah could be more important (the storyline is even NAMED End of an era) than something than affects whole earth and changes something which was working for millennia ...

6 hours ago, Don Edwards said:

Adam's first wife Lilith, who was disobedient and left the garden before Eve was created.

Left? I though she was thrown out.

13 minutes ago, Scotty said:
18 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

Well, she gave Magus the idea and helped with the start of the plot, but continuing on without her was Magus' decision, as was returning to Sirleck and coming up with the plan to distract the Immortals. It's possible (though in my opinion not certain) Pandora expected him to make those decisions, but the decisions and actions still belonged to Magus.

Well if by decision you mean either stay in limbo and be tormented by Immortals for the rest of eternity, or go back to the one entity who had helped before and convince them that there'd be a big payoff at the end but it's basically a trap to kill them anyway because they're evil. There weren't many options for Magus.

Also I'm totally sure Pandora predicted that. She only have failures in predicting when she cared about someone and she didn't cared about Magus.

Still, yes: just because Pandora predicted it and helped to prepare it doesn't mean it wasn't Magus's decision.

 

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45 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Well if by decision you mean either stay in limbo and be tormented by Immortals for the rest of eternity, or go back to the one entity who had helped before and convince them that there'd be a big payoff at the end but it's basically a trap to kill them anyway because they're evil. There weren't many options for Magus.

Magus could have teamed up with Sirleck without planning to kill him (and/or with a different plan for how Sirleck could help him). He could have chosen not to work with Sirleck, and waited in hopes that one day he'd encounter a more trustworthy ally. He could have committed suicide via Immortal. I suppose that isn't really a lot of options (and none of them good), but they were still options.

Furthermore, Pandora didn't tell Magus to go back to Sirleck or to plot to betray him - Magus thought of those things himself. So I still consider it his plan.

44 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

Also I'm totally sure Pandora predicted that. She only have failures in predicting when she cared about someone and she didn't cared about Magus.

I suppose it could have been due to Voltaire's interference or Dan not spelling everything out, but I found it odd Pandora showed no signs of realizing the significance of the vampire attack; if she had predicted Magus' actions she should have been waiting for something like that.

Of course she should have been able to predict it, regardless of Voltaire's interference (all he really did was focus the attack on Raven, and maybe help with the timing). My suspicion is that after they parted ways she mostly put Magus out of her mind (aside from that time she warned Tedd not to use her wand on Elliot) and never bothered to predict what his future actions would be under the new circumstances - it's been demonstrated that she had a tendency to focus on one thing and forget about everything else.

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15 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

Magus could have teamed up with Sirleck without planning to kill him

Not really considering Sirleck was intending on possessing Magus, it was a kill or be killed situation there. There was no guarantee that Magus could purge Sirleck from himself before Sirleck killed anyone else either (like Ellen, Elliot and Ashley).

18 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

He could have chosen not to work with Sirleck, and waited in hopes that one day he'd encounter a more trustworthy ally.

How long would you wait in a similar situation? Magus couldn't trust Sirleck, but at least Sirleck was easy to manipulate. Magus had already been stuck in limbo for 2 years when Pandora dumped him and even before Pandora offered her "help", Magus had been chased and tormented by many Immortals, it'd be like being stuck in a foreign country with nothing and the locals are taking advantage of you at every turn, you get to the point where it's just not worth trying to ask for help and you are forced to act out of need for survival.

22 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

Furthermore, Pandora didn't tell Magus to go back to Sirleck or to plot to betray him - Magus thought of those things himself. So I still consider it his plan.

I still say he wouldn't have needed to do any of that if Pandora had just helped him without making him jump through hoops for her.

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2 minutes ago, Scotty said:

I still say he wouldn't have needed to do any of that if Pandora had just helped him without making him jump through hoops for her.

Well yes... (Which means Pandora contributed to the circumstances of her own downfall.)

Of course, Magus wouldn't have needed Pandora's help if he'd never been banished to the Main Universe in the first place, so whoever did that has a huge part of the blame for Magus' situation.

But personally I think for the purposes of determining the primary adversary/antgonist/villain/etc. of Sister III (which is how this conversation started) we really don't need to follow the chain back any further than Magus (and Voltaire).

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50 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:
1 hour ago, hkmaly said:

Also I'm totally sure Pandora predicted that. She only have failures in predicting when she cared about someone and she didn't cared about Magus.

I suppose it could have been due to Voltaire's interference or Dan not spelling everything out, but I found it odd Pandora showed no signs of realizing the significance of the vampire attack; if she had predicted Magus' actions she should have been waiting for something like that.

Of course she should have been able to predict it, regardless of Voltaire's interference (all he really did was focus the attack on Raven, and maybe help with the timing). My suspicion is that after they parted ways she mostly put Magus out of her mind (aside from that time she warned Tedd not to use her wand on Elliot) and never bothered to predict what his future actions would be under the new circumstances - it's been demonstrated that she had a tendency to focus on one thing and forget about everything else.

I should probably be more specific that Pandora predicted Magus will ask Sirleck for help. However ... I actually think she predicted the vampires as well. But ... she's only psychic when she abandons empathy and kindness ... and yes she tends to forget things when she focus on something else ... and without predicting Voltaire directing the attack on Raven, she might fail to realize the vampires could be problem.

When she detected the vampires in mall, she was already preparing to die ... and was worried it can happen soon. How much did she predicted at that point? Hard to say.

26 minutes ago, Scotty said:
58 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

He could have chosen not to work with Sirleck, and waited in hopes that one day he'd encounter a more trustworthy ally.

How long would you wait in a similar situation? Magus couldn't trust Sirleck, but at least Sirleck was easy to manipulate. Magus had already been stuck in limbo for 2 years when Pandora dumped him and even before Pandora offered her "help", Magus had been chased and tormented by many Immortals, it'd be like being stuck in a foreign country with nothing and the locals are taking advantage of you at every turn, you get to the point where it's just not worth trying to ask for help and you are forced to act out of need for survival.

His advantage would be that he doesn't need food and apparently doesn't need any food equivalent either. He COULD hide for years. But ... what would he be waiting for? He can't SEARCH for ally because he would found more enemies. Only thing waiting would accomplish is he could lose Sirleck.

13 minutes ago, ChronosCat said:

But personally I think for the purposes of determining the primary adversary/antgonist/villain/etc. of Sister III (which is how this conversation started) we really don't need to follow the chain back any further than Magus (and Voltaire).

I don't think Voltaire can be primary anything for Sister III. Doesn't show often enough. We can say Magus is the primary antagonist despite not being true villain.

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11 minutes ago, hkmaly said:

His advantage would be that he doesn't need food and apparently doesn't need any food equivalent either. He COULD hide for years. But ... what would he be waiting for? He can't SEARCH for ally because he would found more enemies. Only thing waiting would accomplish is he could lose Sirleck.

There's also the possibility that if Elliot was required for Magus to get back in the physical realm, waiting too long might mean Magus ending up in an older body.

On top of that, there's also the fact that maybe Magus really wants to get back to his own universe to make sure that Terra is alright and deal with whoever it was that stranded him in limbo in the first place, cus you gotta wonder why someone would want Magus out of the way.

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1 hour ago, Scotty said:

There's also the possibility that if Elliot was required for Magus to get back in the physical realm, waiting too long might mean Magus ending up in an older body.

... probably. Or he would also need to steal the watches with Elliot's backup young form.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

On top of that, there's also the fact that maybe Magus really wants to get back to his own universe to make sure that Terra is alright and deal with whoever it was that stranded him in limbo in the first place, cus you gotta wonder why someone would want Magus out of the way.

That would be good point if he actually had any means how to return to his universe.

But yes: unless it was some sort of prank, there is question who did it and why. I already speculated it could've been that universe version of Voltaire and the reason was to emotionally unbalance Terra and put her on "Lord Tedd" way, except it seems that their universe already has magic in open and Voltaire's action were related to magic reset so it doesn't exactly match ...

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6 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

Well, she gave Magus the idea and helped with the start of the plot, but continuing on without her was Magus' decision, as was returning to Sirleck and coming up with the plan to distract the Immortals. 

Which brings us back to the question of where the heck Les Immortels were!  We saw Pandora and Zeus at the mall, which is where the Aberrations were who were meant to be drawing away Elliot's protectors, but we never saw either of them there, even when Pandora's spell took effect.  Wherever they were, they were forced to enter the mortal plane and cast the Aberration-killing spell.  So where were they, and what was more important to them than six Aberrations?

5 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

Magus ... could have committed suicide via Immortal. 

Could he?  We don't know if he could die while in that plane of existence and in that incorporeal form.  We also don't know that any Immortal would be so obliging as to kill him, either; most of them seem to be more interested in tormenting him.  Finding someone willing to kill him would pose most of the same problems as finding someone willing to help him.

 

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16 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Which brings us back to the question of where the heck Les Immortels were!  We saw Pandora and Zeus at the mall, which is where the Aberrations were who were meant to be drawing away Elliot's protectors, but we never saw either of them there, even when Pandora's spell took effect.  Wherever they were, they were forced to enter the mortal plane and cast the Aberration-killing spell.  So where were they, and what was more important to them than six Aberrations?

I've been wondering that since a few strips into the Aberration attack. It's rather ironic that in the end Magus might have been able to manage everything without distracting the Immortals after all. (Of course, unless Ellen had suddenly gotten the urge to transform Elliot, he still would have needed help with that part, so he would have needed to turn to Sirleck anyway.)

16 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Could he?  We don't know if he could die while in that plane of existence and in that incorporeal form.  We also don't know that any Immortal would be so obliging as to kill him, either; most of them seem to be more interested in tormenting him.  Finding someone willing to kill him would pose most of the same problems as finding someone willing to help him.

I was under the impression that old Helen & Demetrius were attacking him with the intent to kill, and I assume there would have been others who wanted to finish him off (possibly after playing with him first). But I suppose there's no firm evidence for that.

As for whether it was possible for Magus to die while in non-corporeal form, it's possible Dan might write things that way, but in the real world there's no evidence that anything is truly indestructible, so I tend to assume the same to be true in fiction unless we are explicitly told otherwise.

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6 hours ago, ChronosCat said:
23 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Which brings us back to the question of where the heck Les Immortels were!  We saw Pandora and Zeus at the mall, which is where the Aberrations were who were meant to be drawing away Elliot's protectors, but we never saw either of them there, even when Pandora's spell took effect.  Wherever they were, they were forced to enter the mortal plane and cast the Aberration-killing spell.  So where were they, and what was more important to them than six Aberrations?

I've been wondering that since a few strips into the Aberration attack. It's rather ironic that in the end Magus might have been able to manage everything without distracting the Immortals after all.

I've been wondering how exactly they were supposed to kill the Aberrations considering they can't do it directly and they lost Andrea. Maybe they DID noticed the Aberrations in mall and were searching for someone  they can use to get rid of them?

But it's definitely something Dan SHOULD'VE shown, unless it will became plot point later.

7 hours ago, ChronosCat said:

(Of course, unless Ellen had suddenly gotten the urge to transform Elliot, he still would have needed help with that part, so he would have needed to turn to Sirleck anyway.)

Yes, seems using Sirleck was only way how to get Ellen to transform Elliot.

7 hours ago, ChronosCat said:
23 hours ago, CritterKeeper said:

Could he?  We don't know if he could die while in that plane of existence and in that incorporeal form.  We also don't know that any Immortal would be so obliging as to kill him, either; most of them seem to be more interested in tormenting him.  Finding someone willing to kill him would pose most of the same problems as finding someone willing to help him.

I was under the impression that old Helen & Demetrius were attacking him with the intent to kill, and I assume there would have been others who wanted to finish him off (possibly after playing with him first). But I suppose there's no firm evidence for that.

As for whether it was possible for Magus to die while in non-corporeal form, it's possible Dan might write things that way, but in the real world there's no evidence that anything is truly indestructible, so I tend to assume the same to be true in fiction unless we are explicitly told otherwise.

Intent doesn't imply ability and while truly indestructible things are hard to find in reality, there are lot of cases of stuff which is harder to destroy than expected. Actually, literally full landfills.

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